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HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd love to see more priest/ church units in the book, perhaps some sort of loyalist version of cultists that represent a mob of frateris militia

Return Redemptionists to us!

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd love to see more priest/ church units in the book, perhaps some sort of loyalist version of cultists that represent a mob of frateris militia

I suppose but how would you really make them different enough or with a different enough role?

Celestians are an assault type unit. They make sesne as an alternate choice in the troops slot. Once tyou have two troops choices, what does a third do for you? The Tau Empire have three now, but that variety added just a little not a lot.

The Sisters of Battle might benefit from having Inquisitorial Storm Troopers back. THAT is a different enough choice that I see it as worth it. I converted two Chimeras to be Sisters of Battle specific and was quite annoyed when they were dropped from Witch Hunters. I liked having them available. The Chimera itself was useful as mobile cover as well and AV 12 is a big deal. It changes the math significantly and slims the list of potential threats significantly. Its not the be all end all by for 55 points or whatever... Psh. Plus the IG are a natural fit for who else would the Sisters of Battle be most needed to bolster the onfield faith if not the hammer of the emperor as they face a ravening galaxy full of horrors?

a ton of codex's have two or less troops choices. Celestians would make that as complete as it needs to be probably. But Storm Troopers or IG would make sense too. I dunno. I really like their troops as they stand being Sisters of Battle. Pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd love to see more priest/ church units in the book, perhaps some sort of loyalist version of cultists that represent a mob of frateris militia

Return Redemptionists to us!

As elite? or troops? Or a non slot?

Troops, like they were previously.

I don't know if I like celestians as troops with out massive changes to the squad. The bump up they have over sisters is a slightly better leadership and an extra attack. Neither really helps the squad much.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I don't know if I like celestians as troops with out massive changes to the squad. The bump up they have over sisters is a slightly better leadership and an extra attack. Neither really helps the squad much.

Celestians as troops is very 5th edition and not terribly helpful.

Redemptionists as troops and Celestians able to buy CC focused wargear on the other hand.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I don't know if I like celestians as troops with out massive changes to the squad. The bump up they have over sisters is a slightly better leadership and an extra attack. Neither really helps the squad much.

If you're going to have two troops, make them have different roles. In the case of Celestians, close combat that costs less than the amped up Battle Conclave and the Repentia, while being Obsec. I think thats not a terrible thing at all.

Give them a Pistol + CCW and they would get 4 on the charge. That would certainly be an interesting edition. No wierder than Scorpions getting the same thing (essentially, with Mandiblasters). Imagine a unit almost as good as Scorpions but with Obsec. pretty cool.

I'm still underwhelmed, especially since they don't have a cheap assault transport. 4 ap- attacks at strength three is meh. Scorpions have a better gun, better initiative, a better melee weapon, and access to a much better character.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'm still underwhelmed, especially since they don't have a cheap assault transport. 4 ap- attacks at strength three is meh. Scorpions have a better gun, better initiative, a better melee weapon, and access to a much better character.

And, even though I love them, still don't see much play

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'm still underwhelmed, especially since they don't have a cheap assault transport.

Yeah but we're positing that they DO!

So an assault vehicle and some Celestians? models sold! YES

What's weird is people try to point at Celestian statlines and claim that they're making Celestians in to a shootier unit than before. Which is laughable. The only stat that got increased was base number of attacks. It's not that GW doesn't want them to be an assault unit. It's that GW doesn't know what the hell they want with them to begin with. There's no coherent design decision involved.

I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

I think SoB will be much more likely to happen if they were to be paired up with the ecclesiarchy in the same way Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus are... GW seems to have a fear of doing an all female army but there are enough appropriate elements from the Ecchlisiarchy to mitigate that concern. Redemptionists, like above, being a good example.

I still want to see SoB get super heavy tank mobile cathedrals.

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

Akiasura wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

I think he was saying "I don't think they're idiots like some people think."

 MWHistorian wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

I think he was saying "I don't think they're idiots like some people think."

If that's the case I'll apologize for going off, but people on these forums are quick to insult others for holding an opinion they don't agree with way too much

Assuming no models (because lol.... ), I'd like to see the following.

Battle Sisters get a 1ppm reduction.

Celestians have the option to upgrade all models to cheap Power Weapons like Vanguard Veterans, or to grab special/heavy weapons on all models like CSM Havocs. Essentially they are the toolkit unit of the codex, representing their Elite nature. Their Act of Faith changes from Furious Charge to a "+1S on all shooting and melee attacks for this phase".

Penitent Engines get to move 12" in the movement phase, ignore the effects of Difficult Terrain (but at the cost of having to make Dangerous Terrain checks) and get +1 Initiative on the turn they charge.

Repentia get FNP back as standard, and their Act of Faith changes to make them act like Beasts for the movement phase (ie move 12" and get Move Through Cover rule).

Cannoness drops 15points to 50. Currently she's the same price as a Chaos Lord, with the same wargear and a worse stat line... She also gets 2+ armour and jump pack options and the ability to take multiple relics. Her Act of Faith changes from Hatred (which is already readily available from Priests) to something that gives an area buff. Maybe Fearless to units within 12" until the start of her next turn?

Repressors and Avenger Strike Fighters get added into the codex.

Give Celestians back their WS4/I4 and let them take power weapons

I'm ok with the WS 4, but not stock marine speed. Perhaps change their act of faith to be like the old school furious charge, plus one strength and Initiative for a round.

If you want to talk old school, they used to be able to be I6 for a phase.

I miss that old faith chart. The good ole days of charging that deathstar and pulling out the s5 ap1 attacks and 3++ out of nowhere. Or that bss veteran blowing up that monolith in one round of combat. That's kinda the level of faith shenanigans I'd like to see again. Truly miraculous spit take worthy faith.

Edit:

Come to think of it, adding in a miracle mechanic would be cool. Keep the faith to minor little buffs, but for each faith test passed, sisters army gain a miracle point/pool that can be used for the truly miraculous.

Then again, that would involve gw having to implement a new mechanic, that'd be work.

Ahhh, I can dream...

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I miss that old faith chart. The good ole days of charging that deathstar and pulling out the s5 ap1 attacks and 3++ out of nowhere. Or that bss veteran blowing up that monolith in one round of combat. That's kinda the level of faith shenanigans I'd like to see again. Truly miraculous spit take worthy faith.

Reroll able 5++ and the other shenanigans means you can still do some crazy crap.

Rerollable 5++ saves are also kind of lazy and boring. The kind of thing you'd give to a variant Marine army instead of something you'd give to a full blown unique force.

 Melissia wrote:
Give Celestians back their WS4/I4 and let them take power weapons

Celestians are already WS4. But yes, they probably should get I4 - if Inquisitors and a Guard Sergeant can have I4, then the elite of the already elite Battle Sisters should too. Then again, if you take Power Axes (which are probably the superior option even if you are I4) then Initiative is somewhat meaningless.

Akiasura wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

Whose Melissa and what in the world are you talking about. I didn't insult anyone (except Matt Ward0

Take 3 squads of ten repentia and they all gain the fear USR.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Take 3 squads of ten repentia and they all gain the fear USR.

Who would the cash for 30 repentia?

Fear? Fear is...unimpressive. Not ueless but... I wouldnt take an entire 30 just for that.

SO any thought to exorcist in vehicle squadrons? I'd say just 1-2 and not the 1-3 norm.

Penitent Engine Talon...
(My idea for a Penitent Engine formation below)
1-3 Penitent Engine Talons

Formation Bonus
Venerable (applied to all)
If 2 or More Penitent Engines charge the same unit, they gain RAGE and HATRED (Everything) for that turn
If they destroy the unit in the first turn of an assault (including Sweeping Advance) They gain those rules for the rest of the game AND they get HoW (only the ones in the combat, not all of them)

TL flamer/melta bikes. Forward through a sea of burning promethium.

Also turn Acts of Faith back into a resource you can direct as needed instead of just giving each squad a minifeat that locks them harder into a single role.