Swiss residents to vote on referendum to guarantee basic monthly income. (Update on Page 4).

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**Breotan**

It's looking more and more like Switzerland is becoming the place to be. If this actually becomes a thing, I may very well have to change my retirement plans from the sunny beaches of Rotaan to the snowy mountains of Switzerland. Hmm... would they let me keep my guns if I moved there?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422775/Swiss-government-proposes-paying-1-700-month-work-not-bid-end-poverty-insists-people-want-job.html

Swiss government proposes paying everyone £1,700 a month whether they work or not in a bid to end poverty… but insists most people will still want to get a job

Swiss residents to vote on referendum to guarantee basic monthly income
It would be first country in the world to introduce unconditional income
Radical plan was proposed by group of intellectuals

Swiss residents are to vote on a countrywide referendum about a radical plan to pay every single adult a guaranteed income of £425 a week (or £1,700 a month).
The plan, proposed by a group of intellectuals, could make the country the first in the world to pay all of its citizens a monthly basic income regardless if they work or not.
But the initiative has not gained much traction among politicians from left and right despite the fact that a referendum on it was approved by the federal government for the ballot box on June 5.

Under the proposed initiative, each child would also receive 145 francs (£100) a week.
The federal government estimates the cost of the proposal at 208 billion francs (£143 billion) a year.
Around 153 billion francs (£105 bn) would have to be levied from taxes, while 55 billion francs (£38 bn) would be transferred from social insurance and social assistance spending.
The group proposing the initiative, which includes artists, writers and intellectuals, cited a survey which shows that the majority of Swiss residents would continue working if the guaranteed income proposal was approved.

'The argument of opponents that a guaranteed income would reduce the incentive of people to work is therefore largely contradicted,' it said in a statement quoted by The Local.
However, a third of the 1,076 people interviewed for the survey by the Demoscope Institute believed that 'others would stop working'.
And more than half of those surveyed (56 percent) believe the guaranteed income proposal will never see the light of day.

**Easy E**

This is the future.

**hotsauceman1**

I kinda want to see this passed to at the very least see where it goes.

**timetowaste85**

I predict all Swiss people will become cannibals within a week. Or robots.

**Iron_Captain**

At least the Swiss get to vote on stuff like this... Why can't we live in a democracy?

**Crazy_Carnifex**

This looks... interesting.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Breotan wrote:
Hmm... would they let me keep my guns if I moved there?

Don't think so. Anyway, I'll go there first. And I already have the citizenship!

**Dreadwinter**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Breotan wrote:
Hmm... would they let me keep my guns if I moved there?

Don't think so. Anyway, I'll go there first. And I already have the citizenship!

I thought Switzerland gun laws were pretty good as far as ownership goes.

**Breotan**

Dreadwinter wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Breotan wrote:
Hmm... would they let me keep my guns if I moved there?

Don't think so. Anyway, I'll go there first. And I already have the citizenship!

I thought Switzerland gun laws were pretty good as far as ownership goes.

Yea, and doesn't cross-country skiing have a marksmanship component?

**SlaveToDorkness**

That's the biathalon.

**Ketara**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I kinda want to see this passed to at the very least see where it goes.

Same. It's an interesting economic experiment, and succeed or fail, I'm curious to see the outcome.

**Ouze**

I think it's an interesting idea as well. I'm cautiously in favor of it. My feeling is it will work out pretty well, but we'll see. I also agree with the premise that most people want to work and be productive because, well, almost anyone can technically not work in the US if they really didn't want to. You could go be homeless and go to a soup kitchen and get food stamps and so on. Few people chose to do so on an extended basis.

**Iron_Captain**

Dreadwinter wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Breotan wrote:
Hmm... would they let me keep my guns if I moved there?

Don't think so. Anyway, I'll go there first. And I already have the citizenship!

I thought Switzerland gun laws were pretty good as far as ownership goes.

Yeah, Switzerland has very liberal gun laws. If you moved there you would be able to keep your guns, provided you pass all the neccessary checks and requirements.

**Overread**

If more than half is coming direct from Tax it sounds like it could fail. The idea of people getting a fixed and guaranteed monthly income is a great idea from a social point of view. It also opens up the job market to allow for a wider range of jobs that can be done but which wouldn't pay enough to support a person without the additional income. So you can quickly see companies employing more people to do minor work and free up others to do their work. A much needed thing in a work market where we are often seeing jobs hard to get and those which are got being overworked.

Thing is where will the money come from. This scheme in a sense needs nearly all its money to come from tax; so in a sense people get a monthly income, but they then have to turn around and put nearly just as much back into government in order to get that money back.

I suspect this money will generate a healthier retail market so there is some area there for taxation on produce sold to generate more money being recycled back into taxes. Plus the assumption that people will keep working - which isn't unreasonable. People generally advance their standard of living to suit their income; boost the income and people will still work to maintain a higher standard of living and to raise it.

It's a very neat idea, but the numbers behind it will be complex and very key to if it works or fails. It will also be interesting to know if it runs only because of external import/export income or purely from internally generated revenue - the former would have a high risk that changes in the global market could have even more dire effects on the home market.

**SilverMK2**

I'm pretty sure that if that came into being in the UK, rent would immediately jump £1700 a month and house prices would treble

**Overread**

SilverMK2 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if that came into being in the UK, rent would immediately jump £1700 a month and house prices would treble

That is the other consideration.

Rather like how increasing the minimum wage often sees a rise in living costs. If the min-wage rises by that amount in Switzerland what will happen to the living costs. Will rents rise, goods and produce rise etc... It could even result in the population actually being worse off than before if the rises happen.

It's one of those issues with a free market in that if you give people more money the market will quickly react by not only providing more to buy but also raising the prices of what you do buy to start with. It's one thing in defence of regulated prices by government in that the government can put a stop to such activities. Of course a controlled market has its own problems as well.

**Kilkrazy**

The UK government already pays out substantial amounts of housing benefit. That's part of why private rents are so high.

**Sinful Hero**

Very interested to see how this goes if passed- especially seeing what portion of the population would continue working, and if living costs rise substantially.

**Dreadclaw69**

Very interesting idea, I'm interested to see how it works in practice.

**Ahtman**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Very interesting idea, I'm interested to see how it works in practice.

Essentially. I imagine even if it works it won't necessarily work in other places as part of the elements that make it work are the culture of that country. That probably won't stop some from endlessly droning about it though, either way.

**BlaxicanX**

I hope this fails. All people having guaranteed access to things such as comfortable housing and modern social-essentials such as internet and phones without having to work 60 hours a week or be the off-spring of rich parents is immoral.

**Relapse**

As others, I would be interested to see what happens if this actually was voted in.
It doesn't seem like the politicians on either side or a good part of the people over there are for it.
Something I am curious about is if they plan on everyone, working or not getting this bounty, or just non workers?

**Nostromodamus**

What are the costs of living there? Is this sum considered a large amount, or is it barely enough to squeak by?

I'm not familiar with Switzerland to know how much impact this would have.

**Cypher-xv**

It would suck that people finally have some money and suddenly your rent goes up. I hope it works. We have the resources to end poverty around the world but there will always be those who wish to maintain the status quo.

**Dreadclaw69**

Nostromodamus wrote:
What are the costs of living there? Is this sum considered a large amount, or is it barely enough to squeak by?

I'm not familiar with Switzerland to know how much impact this would have.

Cost of living is higher in Switzerland

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Switzerland&country2=United+States

**dogma**

Nostromodamus wrote:
What are the costs of living there? Is this sum considered a large amount, or is it barely enough to squeak by?

It's just over 29k USD per anum, which isn't much money in any of the big three US cities.

**Relapse**

dogma wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:
What are the costs of living there? Is this sum considered a large amount, or is it barely enough to squeak by?

It's just over 29k USD per anum, which isn't much money in any of the big three US cities.

My advice is to stay out of those cities!

**Sasori**

Ahtman wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Very interesting idea, I'm interested to see how it works in practice.

Essentially. I imagine even if it works it won't necessarily work in other places as part of the elements that make it work are the culture of that country. That probably won't stop some from endlessly droning about it though, either way.

Yeah, that's the kicker. I don't think this could really work well in the US (At least that amount) just due to population size.

**SilverMK2**

Sasori wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Very interesting idea, I'm interested to see how it works in practice.

Essentially. I imagine even if it works it won't necessarily work in other places as part of the elements that make it work are the culture of that country. That probably won't stop some from endlessly droning about it though, either way.

Yeah, that's the kicker. I don't think this could really work well in the US (At least that amount) just due to population size.

A larger population generally goes hand in hand with a higher GDP in developed nations. A guaranteed income in the USA would also probably drive up the demand for goods and services, pumping even more money back into the system.

**H.B.M.C.**

Easy E wrote:
This is the future.

The future of what? Where exactly does the money come from?