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if you believe hitler was a liberal or a socialist, then you're either
a) a person who doesn't know what a liberal, or a socialist is or doesn't know anything about hitler's policies, actions, or beliefs.
or
b) so far to the right that even hitler seems left wing.
to say that hitler was a liberal or a socialist is completely wrong and if someone is claiming that then they're nuts, or lying to you for political reasons.
there's no debate on this whatsoever amongst sensible historians of both the right or left.
Chute82 wrote: Seems like I see something everyday comparing someone to Hitler. I seen Trump, Bernie, Hillary, Cruz, ect meme's comparing them to Hitler. I guess it's the popular thing to do these days.
One should almost never take people comparing things to Hitler seriously. In 99.9% of all cases, any comparisons to Hitler are absurd and ridiculous, not to mention completely irrelevant. It makes the person making the comparisons look like a silly fool, like the guy in the OP's video.
Oh, and please beware of people who like dogs. Hitler liked dogs too.
He also liked children, Disney films, and cream cakes.
Chute82 wrote: Seems like I see something everyday comparing someone to Hitler. I seen Trump, Bernie, Hillary, Cruz, ect meme's comparing them to Hitler. I guess it's the popular thing to do these days.
One should almost never take people comparing things to Hitler seriously. In 99.9% of all cases, any comparisons to Hitler are absurd and ridiculous, not to mention completely irrelevant. It makes the person making the comparisons look like a silly fool, like the guy in the OP's video.
Oh, and please beware of people who like dogs. Hitler liked dogs too.
He also liked children, Disney films, and cream cakes.
And King Kong, and Dogs. In fact, nearly all the animal laws that we have today are exactly the same as the ones that Hitler put forward.
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
At the end of the day, I think a dictatorship is a dictatorship. The dogma that dictators use to seize power and control people might vary, but the result is the same. It might be a political brand of dogma, as was the case with Stalin and Hitler, or it might be religious dogma, as was the case with leaders like Khomeini. But ultimately the ideology is just a tool to exert power. All of those men did similar things, such as ordering the execution of political enemies, which really had little to do with their ideology. They would just label someone as an enemy of the state, or an apostate, or whatever trumped up charge fitted, and that gave them carte blanche to get rid of that person. That does not mean that Khomeini hanging children from cranes, reflects the teachings of islam, or that Stalin or Hitler's rule had anything much to do with socialism. Stalin was just a Tsar by another name, just as Kim Jong Un is a King and part of a dynasty. Hitler abolished trade unions because he saw them as competing for his power.
There is a fairly typical pattern of: ideology > revolution > civil war > dictatorship, which happens over and over again. For someone to point to the dictator at the end of the sequence, and claim their governance had anything but a tenuous relationship with the ideology at the start, is disingenuous.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/02/04 21:33:27
daddyorchips wrote: if you believe hitler was a liberal or a socialist, then you're either
a) a person who doesn't know what a liberal, or a socialist is or doesn't know anything about hitler's policies, actions, or beliefs.
or
b) so far to the right that even hitler seems left wing.
to say that hitler was a liberal or a socialist is completely wrong and if someone is claiming that then they're nuts, or lying to you for political reasons.
there's no debate on this whatsoever amongst sensible historians of both the right or left.
well he was an artist, so he must have been in the liberal arts
I think the most important thing to remember is that hitler was a earthling, so we can see what it says about those living on that planet
oldravenman3025 wrote: The Japanese were "kind enough" to "help" us out of that mess on 7 December 1941. The temporary switch over to a wartime economy and resulting austerity measures was what got us out of the Depression, and helped lay the foundation for the post-war "boom years" (after the normal, brief slump during the switch back to a peacetime economy).
Holy crap. I just saw the largest deficit spend in US history described as an austerity measure. That’s more incredible than the ‘Hitler was a socialist’ thing that started this thread.
I also disagree about Hitler being in favor of Big Industry. Adolf Hitler wasn't a capitalist (the NSDAP hated the capitalists as much as anybody else on their long list of enemies). Hitler was a collectivist, just a slightly different breed than the communists. All of Nazi Germany's private corporations were private on paper only. Everything relating to the industry and economy of Germany was under de-facto control of the State.
While they weren’t under formal control of the state, they were in effect, as if they proved unco-operative they would have been taken, so that is a fair point you're making. However, while there was always the specter of nationalisation, these companies remained profit making enterprises, where the owners and managers drew their income from the profits of their companies. So their incentive to deliver more production at the lowest possible price meant they matched the firms of any capitalist system.
At which point it should fairly obvious that trying to define them as socialist or capitalist is just silly, because their economic model was ultimately nothing like any kind of socialist or capitalist economy today. The Nazis inherited an economy that had elements of capitalism and socialism, and then modified that economy for war. The only really sensible comparison would be to the war time economies of the US and the UK, where the only observation is how slowly Germany geared up for a war of production compared to their western rivals. But that’s ultimately more a comment on the poor strategic vision of the German military and political command, and means little in terms of economics.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/05 05:01:36
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Autarky was part of it, sure. And that drive for self sufficiency is very different to classic capitalism and socialism, which both want trade as a generator of wealth.
Another reason that the economy of Nazi Germany only really makes sense as a wartime economy, trying to view on a modern capitalist or socialist axis makes no real sense.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Want some European point of view? I'm French, and my grandmother was a German Jew.
This is stupid crap and you should be really, really, really ashamed of even bringing it up.
lonestarr777 wrote: My favorite part about the OT board here on Dakkadakka is everyday I think I can't be anymore ashamed of my country. And then I get proven wrong.
At least our idiots speak in French, so very few foreigners read the stuff they write .
For OP: so, you are a libertarian, and you want as little government involvement in your life as possible? The fewer government involvement, the more the natural law of “Might makes right” apply. And certainly you expect you would thrive in such an environment. Ahahahahahahah. Those that would thrive are those that are currently too busy trying to game the system to ask for any kind of libertarianism. You would be in for a terrible, terrible disappointment.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
I hate how socialism has become a dirty word. It's natural people have conflicting ideas but even in UK universities I've had people say to me "any socialism is is the same as the nazis". I've even been called a nazi for saying I'm a proud socialist.
This rubbish needs to stop and it's pure brainwashing. I will never understand about why me surporting free health care and social housing equals today as me wanting to wipe out anyone or stealing ALL of your hard earned cash.
Different places require different systems. That's a simple fact. A student in university wanting lower fees, a single mother needing a house or an old man dying of cold in winter don't want to take take over their nation. They just want and deserve a comfortable life.
3000 - 天空人民军队
1500
2000+ - The Sun'zu Cadre.
2000 Pt of Genestealers
1500 Pt of Sisters
It's only a dirty word to some rather right-wing Americans.
The original point of the whole thread is that here is a right-wing American uses socialism to defame a political he doesn't agree with, based on a false reading of history coupled with a syllogism. (Hitler was not a liberal socialist. Even if he actually was, all liberal socialists wouldn't be Hitler.)
So anything 'Socialist' is the same as anything else 'Socialist'? Surely then it's the same for Liberalism? Hitler was a Liberal Socialist and Libertarianism is a form of Liberalism?
Kilkrazy wrote: It's only a dirty word to some rather right-wing Americans.
Well, some rather right-wing Europeans, too. Right-wing anythings, really.
I can't speak for most European countries, but certainly in the UK, I've never heard the terms socialist or socialism used as an insult by any political figure. I suppose it's possible that some negligible ultra-right-wing group like National Front might do it.
Kilkrazy wrote: It's only a dirty word to some rather right-wing Americans.
Well, some rather right-wing Europeans, too. Right-wing anythings, really.
I can't speak for most European countries, but certainly in the UK, I've never heard the terms socialist or socialism used as an insult by any political figure. I suppose it's possible that some negligible ultra-right-wing group like National Front might do it.
I have very often, granted its from the far right type/thatcher crowd but it's used as such. Go on the Independent website for any news on Labour and you're bound to see.
3000 - 天空人民军队
1500
2000+ - The Sun'zu Cadre.
2000 Pt of Genestealers
1500 Pt of Sisters
.
3000 - 天空人民军队
1500
2000+ - The Sun'zu Cadre.
2000 Pt of Genestealers
1500 Pt of Sisters
