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Basically, how easy would it be, both gameplay-wise and fluff-wise, to 40k-ify Ogre Kingdoms in a way that Ogryns get something equivalent to a full 40k armylist?

I'm imagining that Leadbelchers match up well enough as bog-standard Ogryns, perhaps with a Gun-Lugger variant for Ogryn Devastators.

Rhinox riders/grox riders as Fast Attack, Maneaters/Bone'eads as an "Elite" Ogryn variant, and the Ironblaster is effectively a small Battlecannon?

What other options should a 40k Ogryn army get?

Need a transport - a big one. I've seen LRC used effectively for this in a game before.

I feel they need some orky / low grade imperium vehicles.

They need an open topped transport, they're claustrophobic

Ogryn Heavy Weapons squads. Unlike Devastators or IG Heavy Weapon Teams, Ogryns should have Relentless or flat out Assault Weapons with the same profiles, but much shorter range (so maybe 24 inch Autocannons, lascannons and MLs and so on). This would give them a very unique way to play in that while they're a slow force, they are on average more mobile than their other imperial counterparts.

I would also add a stupidity mechanic that, unless a unit is led by a Bone'ead, they will end up doing something unintentional. Unlike the actual Stupidity mechanic from WHFB, this should be something that still gives you an overall positive benefit, just not one you want (like, say, if they fail a test they can't shoot that turn, but will run then charge the closest enemy in range).

Butchers wouldn't translate well into 40k (since if there are ogryn psykers, I'd imagine they'd be put down extremely fast due to being even more uncontrollable than normal psykers) as a spellcaster, but maybe as a sort of Ecclesiarchy-sanctioned priests. Basically similar to the Sisters Repentia (...there's a mental image I don't wanna see again) they can wield Eviscerators and give Zealot to nearby ogryns, but causes them to be unable to shoot and instead want to bash heads in CC. This would be a unit of Ogryns, not a IC, but it would be a small unit so they would be spammable.

Finally, an Ogryn unit that is based around template weapons. Since Ogryns naturally would want to get up close and personal, there should be a dedicated unit that makes the most out of template weapons, like maybe equip two of them that can fire at once and get D6 Wall of Death rolls on overwatch. profile-wise it should be similar to a non-torrent version of the hellhound/devildog/etc weapons.

Just make them cheaper.

I would see every unit led by a comissar, otherwise they'd go full orky with random tables determining what they do!

Generally speaking, Ogryns can use a point reduction anyway, and maybe the ability to assault after running. Back in 2nd ed, the Ripper Gun was a sustained-fire gun that "Autohit" at short-range. Personally, I could see it being a S4 AP 6 Assault 2 Template, what is in esssence a scaled-down Frag Cannon.

Only War: Shield of Humanity had Gun-Luggers as a type of Ogryn that was more keen on dakka rather than choppy. They may not have been "good", but they could keep up sustained fire; thus they had Ogryn-proof equivalents of sawn-off twin-linked multilasers/autocannons.

Feral Ogryns have been around for a bit, either from 3rd war for armageddon, or as an old 4th ed Guard doctrine. Cheaper than regular Ogryns, but had 2 CCWs rather than a ripper gun.

Ogryn Trackers/Hunters could be amusing too, especially given Precision Shots.

You can run pretty much a full army of (tainted) Ogryns using the Renegades army list. There are actually couple of different ways to pull it off.

If you still want them as Imperial auxiliaries, there's a formation for the Astra Militarum too, the Rampart Detachment - a platoon command squad and a crud-load of Bullgryns, who get Fearless and Counter-Attack (making them rather more useable than normal), plus improvements to their shield wall rule if still carrying slab shields.

locarno24 wrote:
If you still want them as Imperial auxiliaries, there's a formation for the Astra Militarum too, the Rampart Detachment - a platoon command squad and a crud-load of Bullgryns, who get Fearless and Counter-Attack (making them rather more useable than normal), plus improvements to their shield wall rule if still carrying slab shields.

Mont'ka also has an Ogryn and Bullgryn formation, a bit pricey as you need 2 squads of each.

To the people saying that Ogryns and Bullgryns need a point reduction, let me point out something.

An Ork Warboss is 60 points and is only slightly better than an Ogryn.

For 20 more points you get, +1 WS, -1 BS, +2 I, +1 A, and +2 LD. Oh and a worse save.

So ya, Ogryns and Bullgryns are worth their points, what they need is more options, not a points reduction. Hell make the Butchers hand out FnP.

Orks might not be the best reference for point efficiency

 oldzoggy wrote:
Orks might not be the best reference for point efficiency

Not always, but a Warboss is definitely worth its points.

How often would you run a warboss with only 'eavy armour, and a big shoota? Never? There you have it.

A bare-naked Ork Warboss is nothing game-changing and in some lists it's actually more of a tax because, unlike Space Marine or Tau Commanders, he can neither buy super-awesome equipment nor buff the unit he's with to any meaningful degree.

That's on top of the fact that most characters tend to be overcosted when you can just buy rank and file troops.

A better comparison would be to Chaos Spawns (who are a similar "mini-monstrous model with no effective melee weapon" type of unit). These guys are surprisingly good for their points (although, again, not as fantastic as something like Wulfens) and they cost LESS than Ogryns. Compared to spawns, I say Ogryns should be 25 points a pop if they don't get any new rules.

Spawns, by comparison, get +1 initiative, +4 LD, +6" more movement, Fear, upgrade Stubborn to Fearless, on average 1 more attack base, same amount of attacks on the charge, and 1 of 3 beneficial effects per turn. In exchange, they get -1Ws, no Guns (and thus no BS to use it with), a worse armor save 2/3rds of the time, no grenades, and....that's about it. for a 10 point discount, they could have done a lot worse. If you wanna add in Marks, a Nurgle spawn goes up to T6, and is still cheaper than an Ogryn by 4 points. On any other multi-wound model, a +1 Toughness (especially going from T5 to T6 and becoming immune to S10 instant death) alone would be worth the 10 point difference, and you get it for only 6 points and still get to keep all of those other special rules.

 greatbigtree wrote:
How often would you run a warboss with only 'eavy armour, and a big shoota? Never? There you have it.

This is why i said they need Options, not a points reduction.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
A better comparison would be to Chaos Spawns (who are a similar "mini-monstrous model with no effective melee weapon" type of unit). These guys are surprisingly good for their points (although, again, not as fantastic as something like Wulfens) and they cost LESS than Ogryns. Compared to spawns, I say Ogryns should be 25 points a pop if they don't get any new rules.

Spawns, by comparison, get +1 initiative, +4 LD, +6" more movement, Fear, upgrade Stubborn to Fearless, on average 1 more attack base, same amount of attacks on the charge, and 1 of 3 beneficial effects per turn. In exchange, they get -1Ws, no Guns (and thus no BS to use it with), a worse armor save 2/3rds of the time, no grenades, and....that's about it. for a 10 point discount, they could have done a lot worse. If you wanna add in Marks, a Nurgle spawn goes up to T6, and is still cheaper than an Ogryn by 4 points. On any other multi-wound model, a +1 Toughness (especially going from T5 to T6 and becoming immune to S10 instant death) alone would be worth the 10 point difference, and you get it for only 6 points and still get to keep all of those other special rules.

Remember that Spawn dont have HoW and that their Armor save only happens in melee combat, whereas Bullgryns (and Ogryns) always have theirs. Also having a gun is nice.

I said it earlier and i will say it again, Ogyrn don't need a points decrease, they need options. Like trading the Ripper guns for a Ripper Pistol/CCW, or buying a sweet two handed club that is S: +2 AP:5, or getting a Heavy Flamer in the squad.

Well that seems to go completely against the fluff. Ogryn learning how to use a flamer? Options other than the idiot/ ogryn proof ripper gun. I just don't think it is fluffy at all.

They aren't the equivalent of Ork Warbosses, they are childlike super strength abhumans. The crunch should reflect that.

 IGtR= wrote:
Well that seems to go completely against the fluff. Ogryn learning how to use a flamer? Options other than the idiot/ ogryn proof ripper gun. I just don't think it is fluffy at all.

They aren't the equivalent of Ork Warbosses, they are childlike super strength abhumans. The crunch should reflect that.

Are you kidding me? A flamer is even easier to use than a Ripper gun, point at thing, pull trigger, watch things burn. Also, i said Ripper pistol.

So S4 T4 W2? Cuz that would be super strength, it would also suck.

 Grimmor wrote:

Remember that Spawn dont have HoW and that their Armor save only happens in melee combat, whereas Bullgryns (and Ogryns) always have theirs. Also having a gun is nice.

I said it earlier and i will say it again, Ogyrn don't need a points decrease, they need options. Like trading the Ripper guns for a Ripper Pistol/CCW, or buying a sweet two handed club that is S: +2 AP:5, or getting a Heavy Flamer in the squad.

Yes, which is why I said "same amount of attacks on the charge". Spawns have Rage, which covers the HoW attack, and on average they'll have 1 more attack too due to the dice roll. And if you wanna split hairs on the armor save, they can buy an invul save. All of this, and they're still Cheaper than Ogryns. This is why Ogryns need a points decrease; even mediocre unit choices in the same niche role cost less than them. If you ignore the points decrease as paying for the -1 to WS, the Ogryns are basically trading +4 Leadership, +6" movement, +1 Initiative, Fear, Fearless, and Mutated Beyond Reason...for a gun.

And the Ripper gun might not be all that better as, unlike most other "melee VS gun" cases, it's only 12" in range. Spawns can move that distance in one turn and charge up to another 12", on average 7". The spawn literally has more effective range at charging than an Ogryn has at shooting and 2/3 times they wound better than a ripper gun (they either get a higher chance at 8 attacks per model on the charge, OR get poisoned S5 attacks in those 2/3rd times).

Also, the Fearless is really important. On top of a high leadership, the Spawns are Fearless, so they require no outside help to stay in combat. Ogryns need a babysitter, especially if the Bone'Ead dies since LD 6 will fail it's leadership test far too often. This will inflate their cost more since you'll need to buy a priest or something to sit in the unit.