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Off the bat, I admit that I have no expert experience with long range rifles. But there's something a bit jarring to me that sniper rifles have a shortish range of 36". I mean, aren't snipers supposed to be experts at precision shooting from long range? Would a 48"+ range be more appropriate, or am I just off the mark here?

Seeing that the average “normal” rifle has a 24” range, I don’t think 36’ is unreasonable. And frankly covers most of the battlefield anyway.

I do think they could use a boost. But more range is not going to help them out that much.

Just give them ignore cover. You are placing your shot right where you want it - you aren't going to hit an obstruction - that's the idea.

Ignores cover makes no sense and unhealthy on cheap pseudo rending guns.

Extra range wouldn't hurt. Let's you position them better and cover bigger zones.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ignores cover makes no sense and unhealthy on cheap pseudo rending guns.

Extra range wouldn't hurt. Let's you position them better and cover bigger zones.

How does ignore cover not make sense? Sniper rifles are very accurate like too the inch wtih trained shooters. Even if in cover you are showing part of your body - a sniper can hit it...the cover around you doesn't matter at all. Ignore over makes a lot of sense.

Considering cover saves in 40k also represents stuff like smokescreens, stealth systems and moving quickly less so.

The problem sniper rifles have is that they don't hit more easily than 'normal' weapons, they barely wound easier than normal weapons and then you usually still get a save and/or FNP.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ignores cover makes no sense and unhealthy on cheap pseudo rending guns.

Extra range wouldn't hurt. Let's you position them better and cover bigger zones.

How does ignore cover not make sense? Sniper rifles are very accurate like too the inch wtih trained shooters. Even if in cover you are showing part of your body - a sniper can hit it...the cover around you doesn't matter at all. Ignore over makes a lot of sense.

Mainly because ignoring cover flat out is a mechanic that is best left unused or in the future hopefully changed to a modifier instead. Even if sniper rifles aren't particularly strong I think their accuracy is best represented by their precision shots rule, if anything I think sniper rifles should give a -2 modifier to LoS rolls (this would stack with the vindicare's own "No Escape" rule to make it even harder for IC to pawn off sniper shot wounds) so they can be more on target.

I don't like the idea of being able to LoS a wound from a sniper rifle. This would make it a lot more viable to pick out high priority targets.

Yes, As someone who shoots long range for fun, sniper rifles should definitely reach out and touch someone. 48" would be about right and should definitely ignore cover. A sniper isn't mindlessly spraying. They are picking a body part on the target and hitting it. You aren't shooting what you cant see. A sniper isn't going to shoot a wall intentionally and the target isn't going to know they are being shot at until the rounds land.

Definitely should be 48". Would making them wound on 2+ or 3+ be too powerful? I'd still keep the Rend on 6's. The only thing I could see being a problem is Tau with their Sniper Drones suddenly becoming VERY strong.

Everything else (Kroot, Scouts) aren't really scary enough that wounding on 2s or 3s would break the game.

Tau snipers are 48" range, and rapid fire. Join the greater good!

 Grimskul wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ignores cover makes no sense and unhealthy on cheap pseudo rending guns.

Extra range wouldn't hurt. Let's you position them better and cover bigger zones.

How does ignore cover not make sense? Sniper rifles are very accurate like too the inch wtih trained shooters. Even if in cover you are showing part of your body - a sniper can hit it...the cover around you doesn't matter at all. Ignore over makes a lot of sense.

Mainly because ignoring cover flat out is a mechanic that is best left unused or in the future hopefully changed to a modifier instead. Even if sniper rifles aren't particularly strong I think their accuracy is best represented by their precision shots rule, if anything I think sniper rifles should give a -2 modifier to LoS rolls (this would stack with the vindicare's own "No Escape" rule to make it even harder for IC to pawn off sniper shot wounds) so they can be more on target.

Yeah - cover is a pretty stupid mechanic - the way it works especially with jinking and stuff. We have to work with the system we have in place now though so I think ignore cover would work best to help out snipers.

Remember when Snipers hit on 2+ back in third or fourth?

Good times.

Well, I think the range is fine. Maybe cover should be reduced by 1 if hit by a precision rifle.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think the range is fine. Maybe cover should be reduced by 1 if hit by a precision rifle.

-1 cover when you hit with a 6? Kinda weak no? Maybe just a special rule (ignore static cover - not jinking)

Make it ignore LOS and minus one to cover would be a much needed boost. Also add pinning back.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Remember when Snipers hit on 2+ back in third or fourth?

Good times.

Yup. I’d not be opposed to a return to those days either.

As a tau player, I can say without any bias that giving my kroot 48 inch range would be completely fine.

Different ammo types might help them, similar but not as powerful as vindicator ammo.
So maybe armor pierce for HPs, ignore cover or wound MCs etc.

Give them a standard strength and AP value just like other weapons, but let them keep rending and precision shot.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ignores cover makes no sense and unhealthy on cheap pseudo rending guns.

Extra range wouldn't hurt. Let's you position them better and cover bigger zones.

How does ignore cover not make sense? Sniper rifles are very accurate like too the inch wtih trained shooters. Even if in cover you are showing part of your body - a sniper can hit it...the cover around you doesn't matter at all. Ignore over makes a lot of sense.

I think more to the point, a sniper is not going to take a shot and potentially expose their position unless theyre absolutely confident in the shot. Military snipers generally arent in the business of trick shots, they aren't gonna take a shot at part of a head or just a foot or the like in most cases. Getting a cover save in that instance makes sense, its not so much a save, but the shooter choosing not to take the shot.

Could give snipers a marker light rule. Miss a turn of shooting but "paint" a target. +1 to hit VS nominated unit or something like that.

Not all snipers work the same. so ammo types wont really work there.

they should just be precision shots at regular to hits.

so that they can mass allocate instead of on 6s which are unreliable at best.

range would be nice to differentiate them from regular weapons (except tau since they dont really need the upgrade)

Ignore cover wouldn't be too good since im not sure how a sniper is shooting through concealed smoke or a bike doing wheelies across the battle field.

imho

 pumaman1 wrote:
Tau snipers are 48" range, and rapid fire. Join the greater good!

Necron Snipers are 24" range and Rapid Fire. Fires a "Leptonic beam" that disintegrates the targets nervous system, yet less effective than a small lump of metal propelled by a chemical explosion

They may be the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy, but Necrons make some terrible design decisions.

Torquar wrote:

 pumaman1 wrote:
Tau snipers are 48" range, and rapid fire. Join the greater good!

Necron Snipers are 24" range and Rapid Fire. Fires a "Leptonic beam" that disintegrates the targets nervous system, yet less effective than a small lump of metal propelled by a chemical explosion

They may be the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy, but Necrons make some terrible design decisions.

If you ran necrons full to fluff then the game would be over instantly.

there has to be some compromises.

 pumaman1 wrote:
Tau snipers are 48" range, and rapid fire. Join the greater good!

and the Vindicaire has a 72" range. your point?

I do agree though that they should have a str and AP value, but different ones. For instance, is a marine scout's sniper rifle going to be pushing the same amount of damage as a guardsman's long las?

and if you want to play necrons closer to fluff, gauss weapons are murderous if more than autowounding on a 6, but gaining rending too. (I played them in 3rd that way, then I got to read the codex)

necron deathmarks are 24" rapid fire butthathavetheir uses for more deepstrikestuf fthen poke at range

I think the range is good. I'd make all snipers hit on 2's and wound on 3's. And all shots are precision shots. Then they would be closer to being like a real sniper. Also no more units of snipers. In the military we had two guys max (shooter/spotter). Sometimes one guy.

Imperium Snipers should all have the Marksman SA and an Exitus rifle