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The new Genestealer Patriarch has Telepathy as a psychic discipline, which has Psychic Scream as it's Primaris.

Does that mean the Patriarch can *never* use the Primaris Power?

aaaaaaaaaaaaand let the burning commence ! No, but in all seriousness, I think this atleast proves that RAI Scream doesn't need to roll to hit, and really should have been a malediction.

Yeah, this nails the coffin for me. The Witchfire part of it is for targeting restrictions only, as are all such similarly worded abilities.

 Swampmist wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaand let the burning commence ! No, but in all seriousness, I think this atleast proves that RAI Scream doesn't need to roll to hit, and really should have been a malediction.

How does it prove anything? BS 0 means the rules writer obviously intends for the Genestealer to not be able to shoot or use witchfires at all.



Even if you were skipping the To Hit roll for Psychic Shriek, the Genestealer would still be unable to cast witchfire. He has no ability to shoot.

col_impact wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaand let the burning commence ! No, but in all seriousness, I think this atleast proves that RAI Scream doesn't need to roll to hit, and really should have been a malediction.

How does it prove anything? BS 0 means the rules writer obviously intends for the Genestealer to not be able to shoot or use witchfires at all.

Spoiler:

Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that field (the same is also occasionally represented by a ‘–’).

Even if you were skipping the To Hit roll for Psychic Shriek, the Genestealer would still be unable to cast witchfire. He has no ability to shoot.

I agree based on the rules as written (they clearly say any Witchfire is a Shooting Attack), but the Psychic Phase rules suck RAW, and it is very unlikely to be what the psychic phases authors intention was - literally everyone I know uses houserules to fix it in some way (Mastery Levels & Warp Charges in a unit with multiple Psykers / Psykers joining Brotherhoods and what happens to Perils then etc).

HIWPI is that any witchfire without a weapon profile does not roll To Hit and can be used regardless of BS.

nekooni wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaand let the burning commence ! No, but in all seriousness, I think this atleast proves that RAI Scream doesn't need to roll to hit, and really should have been a malediction.

How does it prove anything? BS 0 means the rules writer obviously intends for the Genestealer to not be able to shoot or use witchfires at all.

Spoiler:

Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that field (the same is also occasionally represented by a ‘–’).

Even if you were skipping the To Hit roll for Psychic Shriek, the Genestealer would still be unable to cast witchfire. He has no ability to shoot.

I agree based on the rules as written (they clearly say any Witchfire is a Shooting Attack), but the Psychic Phase rules suck RAW, and it is very unlikely to be what the psychic phases authors intention was - literally everyone I know uses houserules to fix it in some way (Mastery Levels & Warp Charges in a unit with multiple Psykers / Psykers joining Brotherhoods and what happens to Perils then etc).

HIWPI is that any witchfire without a weapon profile does not roll To Hit and can be used regardless of BS.

How do you differentiate between profile-less Witchfire powers and Maledictions, then? Or do you think that such a distinction is meaningless?

AFAIK there are no (or at least very few) maledictions that cause wound/hull point loss on their target, or if they do it's a secondary effect in addition to causing some other non-damaging effect.

That would be the distinction.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

nekooni wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaand let the burning commence ! No, but in all seriousness, I think this atleast proves that RAI Scream doesn't need to roll to hit, and really should have been a malediction.

How does it prove anything? BS 0 means the rules writer obviously intends for the Genestealer to not be able to shoot or use witchfires at all.

Spoiler:

Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that field (the same is also occasionally represented by a ‘–’).

Even if you were skipping the To Hit roll for Psychic Shriek, the Genestealer would still be unable to cast witchfire. He has no ability to shoot.

I agree based on the rules as written (they clearly say any Witchfire is a Shooting Attack), but the Psychic Phase rules suck RAW, and it is very unlikely to be what the psychic phases authors intention was - literally everyone I know uses houserules to fix it in some way (Mastery Levels & Warp Charges in a unit with multiple Psykers / Psykers joining Brotherhoods and what happens to Perils then etc).

HIWPI is that any witchfire without a weapon profile does not roll To Hit and can be used regardless of BS.

How do you differentiate between profile-less Witchfire powers and Maledictions, then? Or do you think that such a distinction is meaningless?

You can't use the profile-less Witchfires without LoS and you cant use Maledictions from inside a transport. It's stupid, but it works reasonably well and I don't have to create more houserules than necessary. (Again: HIWPI!)

I can't believe they would give him a power he couldn't even use.

Well maybe. .....

 dan2026 wrote:
I can't believe they would give him a power he couldn't even use.

Well maybe. .....

GW didn't give him the power, you selected it. The Primaris is always optional and never mandatory from a given discipline, unless you get it for free for rolling everything from the same discipline, which is still a choice on your part.

You mean the choice of rolling all his powers from the one discipline he can roll on ?

yeah, he literally can't not have that power...

Bs0 -> Can't shoot with whatever shooting weapon they might have not even auto hitting ones.

He still gets invis and stuff.

 koooaei wrote:
He still gets invis and stuff.

The best description of the Telepathy list
Invisibility and stuff : P

 oldzoggy wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
He still gets invis and stuff.

The best description of the Telepathy list
Invisibility and stuff : P

Haha, pretty much why anyone takes it.

I HOPE that his little buddies that come with him will give him rules to fire.
Just waiting for that full leak..

 Swara wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
He still gets invis and stuff.

The best description of the Telepathy list
Invisibility and stuff : P

Haha, pretty much why anyone takes it.

I HOPE that his little buddies that come with him will give him rules to fire.
Just waiting for that full leak..

It says to refer to page 2, willing to bet that is the page the Magus is on and the Magus will have one too. They will give a psyker benefit for sure, just not sure what kind. Maybe just like the spell familiar from the CSM codex.

Well...since i was fething curious i wrote to the WD Team.
Good news everyone?

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160307/5smlr6do.jpg

P.S.

Gesendet: Montag, 07. März 2016 um 12:00 Uhr
Von: "White Dwarf" <team@whitedwarf.co.uk>
An: XXXX
Betreff: Re: Re: Question to Patriarch Ghosar (Genestealer Cult) and Telepathy
Haha - yes, I can imagine. I normally use Tau and Skitarii, so I rarely make contact with psykers! And yes, more than likely it would be added to an FAQ/Errata.

Dan

Except they don't seem to do many FAQ/Errata these days...

RAW it doesn't work.
RAI it's what they meant had GW not been poor rules writers. The short stories on ghosar even has the patriarch using psychic scream it's obviously intended when it's in the Lore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shandara wrote:
Except they don't seem to do many FAQ/Errata these days...

The white dwarf team apparently keeps telling people it will be faq and errata on everything and it never happens.
I'm assuming the same white dwarf guy above was also the one who was saying the hunter continent allows buff sharing and target lock splitting and it would be in the next errata too. Btw we got an errata get a month later and nothing was in it. This leads me to believe the white dwarf team has no clue.

I almost willing to bet GW has a very extensive list of FAQs somewhere in their office, they don't intent to answer any of them

So how would you guys play this then?

Take psychic test, then if passed/not denied pick a unit within 18 Inches and do 3d6 - leadership?

 dan2026 wrote:
So how would you guys play this then?

Take psychic test, then if passed/not denied pick a unit within 18 Inches and do 3d6 - leadership?

Just follow the steps for psychic shooting, and don't roll to hit, since it's not required. You first select a target within range and Line of Sight, then attempt to manifest, and resolve the power if successful. Because it's a psychic shooting attack, the direction that casualties are removed is dictated by closest-to-closest, and look out sir saves can be taken.

They should just errata it to be a Malediction and be done with it... And then if they feel like it put a clause saying you can't manifest it when you're locked in combat, if thats the problem.

Is this still in the Tyranid FAQ?
Since the precodex faq was just-> you cant shoot if you are BS0 so no witch fires for you even if they don't require a to hit roll.

I hated this one as an ork player.

You just can't shoot anything with bs0. Psy shreik is witchfire => you can't use it.

RAW it can't be used.

RAI I'm sure it should be as it describes it doing so in the fluff lol.
I assume it's another GW oversight.

 Jackal wrote:
RAW it can't be used.

RAI I'm sure it should be as it describes it doing so in the fluff lol.
I assume it's another GW oversight.

My FLGS houseruled that it can be used at BS0. The boardgame specifically says he is able to use Psychic Scream, and in fact it is more powerful when he is on his "throne", so it's pretty obvious he's able to cast it RAI.

How did you houseruled it ?

 godardc wrote:
How did you houseruled it ?

I you are asking me, we decided that Psychic Shriek, and any other witch fire powers that do not have a profile, do not require an attack roll. You must have LoS and be within range. Otherwise you move straight to the to-wound roll. It basically functions exactly like the C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer's special ability "Gaze of Death".