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Hi Dakka

I have been out of the game several years and wow everything got updated. Again.

Now planning a new list for late 2016 comp and thinking about vanguard veterans loadout.

In the old days it was useless dude upfront to draw small arms, then a storm shield or two, then the weapons

Can I please ask feedback on Vanguard builds these days?

Thanks in advance

You're pretty much spot on I think.

I personally would field five storm shields with the remaining five models armed with bolt pistols and assorted power weapons. (Two swords, a mace, and a couple of axes) with the Sergeant armed with a storm shield and one of the power weapons (sword or mace) allowing him to swing at initiative in challenges with the 3++ save helping him ward off any high initiative attacks that would go through his armor.

Just my opinion on that. You can also keep it to three or four power weapons and have one to two basic bolt pistol & chainsword guys to absorb a wound and help keep the squad from being quite so expensive. Up to you on that end, of course.

That's all I've got to add. Welcome back to 40k and take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

If taking stormshield, then pair with single Lightening Claw or TH or powerfist, other power weapons should be paired with pistols to get that +1 attack.

Sergeant with claw, shield and meltabomb, 2 troopers equipped the same and 2 more troopers with pistol and power axe.

I've been kind of wondering the same thing. I've got a squad of 7 Van Vets and I've been wondering how to equip them.

Also, has anyone ever run these as Honor Guard? I've considered that, but not sure if it's a decent option.

 godswildcard wrote:
I've been kind of wondering the same thing. I've got a squad of 7 Van Vets and I've been wondering how to equip them.

Also, has anyone ever run these as Honor Guard? I've considered that, but not sure if it's a decent option.

They could easily be run as honor guard assuming you aren't using jet packs. I'm using some minis from Dreamforge for my HG though. They look very much SM like but different enough that their armor stands out as being "artificer."

As I said above.

If you give a model a power weapon, leave it with the bolt pistol for the bonus +1 attack. So four or five models with Power Weapons and Bolt Pistols for maximum attacks numbers possible. (3 or 4 attacks, depending on if they charged) This can also include a power fist if you wish on one model, hidden in the squad, and this model could also justifiably carry a storm shield to help him weather an attack that would otherwise kill him before he can swing, and it won't cost him the extra attack either. This should be four models in a 10 man squad in my opinion. An axe, a powerfist (+Storm Shield), a couple of swords, or a mace and a sword, whatever mix you want.

Then, equip a few more (5 in a 10 man squad) with Storm Shields and nothing else. Keep them as cheap as possible and use them as the shield wall to protect against incoming fire and ablative wounds for the choppy element of the squad.

Your Sergeant should also have a Storm Shield, and can be given a power weapon or Lightning Claw. I personally would spring for a few extra points and give him a Storm Shield and Relic Blade. He doesn't have Shred that the Lightning Claw would give him but he does have a +2 strength power sword that doesn't lose a bonus attack because it's a 2 handed weapon, and is still AP:3 just like the Lightning Claw.

This is just my opinion. In my view the above combination gives you a good amount of power weapon attacks at both base initiative (Relic Blade, Power Swords or Maces), as well as a few attacks at initiative 1 (Power Fist, Power Axe) and enough storm shields to reliably weather the kind of shots that would insta-gib your Vanguard Veterans while denying their save. Also, the Storm Shield veterans still have 2 attacks base with 3 on the charge, so if they make the assault too, all the better.

Hopefully that makes a bit more sense versus my first reply. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

@Red Thirst: At 5 pts per lightning claw, it seems like a huge waste not to give them to the shield bearers. Drop the Relic Blade on the sarge down to a LC and you already have enough points to upgrade 2 guys to have claws.

Take a look at the shadow strike kill team. I run 2 units of 5 VV w/ LC serg is armed with a SS and Powerfist.

The unit hits like a freight train.

Ooh I like freight train hits

My friend runs the Shadow Strike team (the double Vets that can assault out of reserves Turn1 on a 4+ or any other turn without rolling.

He goes ham on them and get a Power Fist and a Lighting Claw on each of them. 16 of them have both and 4 of them have Power Fist and SS. That way he has a SS tanking on each 5man (combat squaded).

He also pods in a command squad with the +1 attack banner so each squad of 5 throws out roughly 25 AP2/3 attacks

Ridiculously expensive per model (60 per, I think), but if the enemy doesn't have interceptor or an overwatch bump, it does a lot of work!

I found power maces are a good weapon.
VV have so many attacks that they will drown their ennemies with their 2+ to wounds, even without ap2/3.
And against light armored troops (necrons warriors for example) the ap4 is just fine.
It works well on the vehicle too, if you have to charge one.

My vanguards are split 50/50 power maces and power axes. Of course, they are all free in my list where I use vanguard.

Power Mauls are just super solid. You're going to wound pretty much any infantry on 2+ and force a bunch of saves, and you can easily glance vehicles to death.

The Krak Grenade on a Stick ain't bad. I personally prefer Thunder Hammers/Shields or Lightning Claws. The ten I have will be split five and five!

I use to run 3x5 with 2 LC/SS, 1 LC/PF and 2 Power Axes, now I run 2x5 with LC/SS, LC/LC, 3 Power Axes. The other 5 with SS/PF. Just finished a 5 man squad with Artifact sword/SS and 4 Power Mauls.

It's really up to you, at 5 points it's seriously a waste to not upgrade power swords or power axes. Don't listen to the nay sayers. You can number crunch all you want but at the end of the day it wins out on the table. Rule of thumb, if you want SS, go with SS/LC or SS/PF. If you want a cheap attack with a PF go with PF/LC. If you go with Power weapons keep them stock with there bolt pistol.

Cheers.

I really, really don't like lightning claws.

Hi,

I have been reading with interest through the various posts on this thread - I have a set of the older finecast vanguard models and also a set of the newer plastic models. I was thinking of making a 10 man squad to use in my Ultramarines army.

Red_Thirst posted:-
"five storm shields with the remaining five models armed with bolt pistols and assorted power weapons. (Two swords, a mace, and a couple of axes)" and "Your Sergeant should also have a Storm Shield and Relic Blade" and "also include a power fist if you wish on one model, hidden in the squad, and this model could also justifiably carry a storm shield"

I am still not sure how to loadout this squad and was thinking along the lines of:-

A front row of 5 veterans with storm shields and bolt pistols
A rear row of 5 veterans with bolt pistols and power weapons (still not sure which ones to pick)
Are plasma pistols totally out for using with this squad - as some of the finecast models come with these weapons or should I remove these?

I am confused as to were the following models should be placed
Should the sergeant be in the front or back row?
Should the veteran with the power fist and ss be the front or back row?
If these 2 models are both in the back row does this mean 7 ss??

I was thinking of using either a Chaplain with jump pack or the Lord Executioner model along with this squad?

Sorry for so many questions and not fully understanding / being confused with all the advice given in the posts.
Thanks in advance.

Martel732 wrote:
My vanguards are split 50/50 power maces and power axes. Of course, they are all free in my list where I use vanguard.

Any storm shield?

Is there a way to give them the +1Ini?

Yeah, they've some shields. No way to get init.

Saythings wrote:
My friend runs the Shadow Strike team (the double Vets that can assault out of reserves Turn1 on a 4+ or any other turn without rolling.

He goes ham on them and get a Power Fist and a Lighting Claw on each of them. 16 of them have both and 4 of them have Power Fist and SS. That way he has a SS tanking on each 5man (combat squaded).

He also pods in a command squad with the +1 attack banner so each squad of 5 throws out roughly 25 AP2/3 attacks

Ridiculously expensive per model (60 per, I think), but if the enemy doesn't have interceptor or an overwatch bump, it does a lot of work!

Pardon my ignorance, but how do they come out of reserves turn 1? I'm looking at the rules for that formation and it doesn't mention anything about being able to roll for reserves on turn 1. I assume I'm just missing something.

Even without however he's getting turn 1 reserves, turn 2 guaranteed deep strike/charge is pretty nasty. Shadowstrike Kill Team is a really cool formation.

Something worth considering is bringing a lone guy or two with a Grav Pistol. If you're going to assault a multi-wound unit, concussing it before doing so is awesome. This is always points-allowing, obviously.

edit: Found my answer, and good news Saythings. The way it's worded, you straight up start your reserve rolls on turn 1 with a 4+ being a success. The way the "On Time..." rule is worded for a Shadowstrike Kill Team means you either pass or fail ALL RESERVE rolls by choice. So if you want them on turn 1, they just show up.

Damn that's nasty. I am going to have to build a Ravenguard list.