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I have started competitive X-Wing play after watching friends play casual from the sidelines since the beginning, only buying my first ships about 2 months ago. I then attended a local store championship as a spectator to observe and report what other players were running in competitively. After the championship I found it disappointing that a lot of players weren't very original in their squading. But other than this small observation, I freaking love competitive play. It is now an addiction.

This experience left me with a basic idea to form a Scum list, since practically no one gives them a though other than Bro-Bots. I know they are hard to work around and may require some skill to fly, but that is precisely why I like this game, its not just the ship or the pilot or the upgrades, a lot of games are determined by the players flying which in my opinion determines if you set yourself up to use your upgrades and skills the way you thought they would when you built the squad. My initial thought on any build or faction was to use Heaver's idea of a 4 ship build. I thought that somewhere, his primary principles could be applied to any faction which then brought me to Scum since no one seemed to be thinking of anything else for the poor faction of noble renegades.

So, with this back info, this build came from me wanting to do something that I thought would be totally different from everyone else. I wanted originality. This far, two months into my excursion of competitive play, I am proud to say that I have taken this list to the Top 8 in both tournaments I have attended thus far. What I would like to find out now, from more experienced players, is how I could make this build better or gain tips and tricks to maneuvering it better.

Talonbane Cobra-Kihraxz
Predator
Glitterstim
Shield Upgrade

Syndicate Thug-Y-Wing
TLT
Unhinged Astromech

Syndicate Thug-Y-Wing
TLT
Unhinged Astromech

Black Sun Soldier-Z-95


100 Points Even


What I've found on my own, is that deployment and initiative are very sensitive to this build. Other than that at times I would like more maneuver capabilities for talon and other times a little help on defense. But, I have had decent success. Im still on a learning curve. Some ideas I have thought about may be a little crazy, such as a Hot Shot instead of Glitter on Talon, or running EU and PTL, or keeping Predator with EU, and even thought about EU and LoneWolf. Bottom line, I would like to keep this original basis. Especially Talon.

Engine Upgrade instead of Shield Upgrade. Talonbane needs to get into range 1, and the ability to re-position at PS9 is super valuable.

So I have pretty much settled that Engine Upgrade will be my first substitute. Anything else that could be recommended?

Wouldn't you rather downgrade your Z-95 to a Binayre and keep a 1 pts initiative bid?

I'd look long and hard at PTL over Predator.

I've run Talonbane in a tourney with Pred, and it's a viable and credible way to do it, but if I were to do it again I'd want to be able to both reposition and take an offensive action. The Khiraxz doesn't have a bad range of greens, and Talonbane's native ability triggers automatically, so it can live with stress.

That said, pulling a K Turn into the rear arc and at R1 of an opponent and still having the rerolls from Predator is also a splendid thing to do and I've regularly landed 5 hits when doing so.

It's a judgement call, I'd say PTL will perform more consistently, but Predator may well win you games, just not every one.

Going down from the 3 PS Z-95 to the PS 1 Z-95 has crossed my mind. At times, I think Talon and the Squad perform better when I have initiative and Move First/Shoot First. But really, it probably ends up 50-50 when I think back to my wins and losses.

I think with Engine Upgrade it would be better paired with PTL. And I think your right that it is really just more of a preference, cause Predator has been working for me, especially in the last Tourney I played in. With this decision, I think I'll need to analyze results of players who have ran Talon with either setup and compare. Its been a learning curve with him but I have pulled off a couple variations of what you described with the K-Turn. It feels great when you get him just right.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Wouldn't you rather downgrade your Z-95 to a Binayre and keep a 1 pts initiative bid?

Initiative isn't always important unless you have a ship in your list that has to shoot first (like Whisper) or is better when they can react to their opponents (like Fel).

Replace one of the Thugs with Torkhil Mux with a TLT, the HWK is even more of a brick than the Y-Wing but his pilot ability upsets quite a lot of lists

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Replace one of the Thugs with Torkhil Mux with a TLT, the HWK is even more of a brick than the Y-Wing but his pilot ability upsets quite a lot of lists

Run only TLT on the HWK, nothing else?

I agree with Azreal13's post - PTL gives you a lot of extra options on Talonbane compared to Predator.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Initiative isn't always important unless you have a ship in your list that has to shoot first (like Whisper) or is better when they can react to their opponents (like Fel).

But in this particular case, he does have Talonbane with an Engine Upgrade, who would like to move second if possible so that he can selectively use is boost action.

Run only TLT on the HWK, nothing else?

He comes out to 25pts with a TLT, and so slides right into the point slot of a TLT Y-Wing with the unhinged astromech. I normally like him with Recon Specialist, but there's not quite enough points here. The HWK is somewhat weaker than the Y-Wing (you gain defense dice, but at the cost of 3 health), but Mux's ability allows you to shoot first with the rest of your list, and potentially knock out even an Ace pilot before he can retaliate.

Run only TLT on the HWK, nothing else?

He comes out to 25pts with a TLT, and so slides right into the point slot of a TLT Y-Wing with the unhinged astromech. I normally like him with Recon Specialist, but there's not quite enough points here. The HWK is somewhat weaker than the Y-Wing (you gain defense dice, but at the cost of 3 health), but Mux's ability allows you to shoot first with the rest of your list, and potentially knock out even an Ace pilot before he can retaliate.

You might want to look into the Cloaking Device for Talonbane. First turn, go speed 4, cloak. Anyone that catches you at R3 is shooting at 6 green dice on your Kihraxz. Next turn, roll up on them, but don't decloak, let them waste shots on your 4-7 dice + Focus. Then, when you've got them in your sights, decloak aggressively and hit em with a Focused or TL'd 5 attack dice.

PTL and EU is a solid recommendation. It'll also let you focus on the turn you cloak and boost+Focus or Focus+TL on the turn you decloak.

 bocatt wrote:
You might want to look into the Cloaking Device for Talonbane. First turn, go speed 4, cloak. Anyone that catches you at R3 is shooting at 6 green dice on your Kihraxz. Next turn, roll up on them, but don't decloak, let them waste shots on your 4-7 dice + Focus. Then, when you've got them in your sights, decloak aggressively and hit em with a Focused or TL'd 5 attack dice.

PTL and EU is a solid recommendation. It'll also let you focus on the turn you cloak and boost+Focus or Focus+TL on the turn you decloak.

Keeping in mind that 1/4 times your cloak will shutdown automatically, leaving Talon with his "target lock" hanging out.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Initiative isn't always important unless you have a ship in your list that has to shoot first (like Whisper) or is better when they can react to their opponents (like Fel).

But in this particular case, he does have Talonbane with an Engine Upgrade, who would like to move second if possible so that he can selectively use is boost action.

Meh.

Talonbane will get outmaneuvered by anything with a decent dial, regardless of who has initiative. Still, my original point still stands: most ships in this game really don't care about initiative. It's one of those things that lots of people say but doesn't really mean anything in an overwhelming majority of times.

For what it's worth, I had pretty good success (in 2 games vs. a 3x TIE Adv list) with this list:

Talonbane Cobra
Engine Upgrade and PTL
Cartel Marauder

N'dru Suhlak
Cluster Missiles
2x Binayre Pirates

I playtested my revised Talon build with PTL and EU on Talon and trading one TLT Y-Wing for Torkil Mux. I like the revision since it allowed me to use two pilot abilities and Mux's ability goes well with Talon which is great to give Talon an advantage over an opponents ace pilots.