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 Sim-Life wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm still on Dakka because this feels like the last bastion of negativity where anyone's willing to acknowledge what GW actually is and does

/tg/ on 4chan has frequent GW hate threads with the added bonus of not having to be polite or have arguments that make sense. But I'm with you on this. I feel dumb that I used to defend 8th with the exact same arguments I criticize now but I feel the fact that I can acknowledge that I was wrong then gives me some credibility. Not that anyone cares, its always the same chorus of "GOD FORBID you talk to your oppoenent before a game and have them tone down their list" or "Just play Open or Crusade".

Yeah, pretty any rando game is gonna be stump face level. I asked for a get my feet wet game of ITC rules and dude brought a death list. I was like fair... don't like ITC rules (this was an 8e experience)

9e well. The magic card feel of stratagems have really turned me off from the game. I've played since 1995 and this is the worse I've felt about everything 40k.

GW has really seemed to double down on the rapid continuous releases and with power creep.

By contrast, I was getting back into the hobby and quite extensively. Mostly inspired by doing research for making my own Table Top Skirmish game, was quite getting back into it and I was really excited for the new edition of Kill Team, but now after this crap with GW and their draconian IP guidelines (I say "guidelines" as most of their stuff they say in that crappy article they can't legally back up), I'm wanting to frig off again. And I also don't want to spend 83 NZD on an Eldar codex that's for a sub-optimal army and a codex that'll be made redundant sooner or later.

Elbows wrote:
Played from 2nd through 3.5/4th edition. Lost interest, left for 9-10 years.

Came back in late 7th, tried it...realized it was still re-skinned 3rd edition, so I didn't play. Hopped in with 8th at the start. Stopped playing about six months ago. Simply not having fun when I play the game (I simply lose all interest when units start rolling hundreds of dice...sometimes more than once). Will probably revert to playing a modified form of 2nd edition, and 8th occasionally if requested by friends.

I don't believe I'll be playing any future editions of 40K. I'm oddly okay with that, just gotta find another way to use the minis now (not a big deal).

Similar boat. Dropped 40k when 3rd edition changed 2nd edition too much for me (movement was the biggest issue I seem to remember - the idea a guardsman could run away as fast as my Genestealer could chase him seemed wrong), but played other GW games and liked the background. GSC almost got me playing in 7th, but did go back with 8th, if only because so many people at the club wanted to play it. 9th's been a bit of a disaster, currently playing in a crusade but enjoying it less and less. Can't imagine wanting to play a 2000 point game.

The lack of tactics like in a regular wargame (or indeed GWs other games like Warmaster and EpicA) in 40k and the use of cards, listbuilding and gothcha's instead doesn't really appeal, though I get why it would appeal to a lot of people.


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 kirotheavenger wrote:
If I had the choice, I'd leave 40k.
But there's just so few opportunity to play other games due to the sizes of communities.
In my city there's at least 4 different groups, all of at least a dozen members, playing 40k (albeit some members cross over).

Conversely there's about a dozen people across the whole city playing Necromunda, which is one of the more popular non-40k/AoS games.

So in a choice of playing 40k with friends or playing nothing, I'm forced into 40k. But I take any other game when I can.

In Bristol? There is a horde of wargames clubs, plus the professional guys in Abbey Wood, playing every setting imaginable. Maybe they closed because the pandemic, but I can't imagine they will be gone forever.

Yeah, I discover new groups every day
I think I'm up to 6 that I'm aware of.

Point stands though, I can close my eyes, throw a rock, and I'm also guaranteed to hit a 40k club. But another game? That takes digging.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Yeah, I discover new groups every day
I think I'm up to 6 that I'm aware of.

Point stands though, I can close my eyes, throw a rock, and I'm also guaranteed to hit a 40k club. But another game? That takes digging.

JuSt InTrOdUcE tHe GaMe To NeW pLaYeRs BrO

I played Rogue Trader/1st ed with my friends in middle school. By the early 1990s girls took over as we hit high school.

After I got my degree, 3rd ed was ending can I came back and stuck with it.

I don't buy many models these days but I finally finished the Eldar army of all aspects from 1991 that I bought for $25 off a friend quitting in 1994.

I also take part in JOMO. I just play my friends and when I play someone who usually wins we agree for a casual competitive game and still have fun. And I have fun painting my models. And I have fun reading the odd book I pick up.

I think the key to not rage quitting is finding things that are important in your life and just being more self-aware. If you want to be WAAC top winner, embrace it and don't make up stories that you have a "$150 buy in." If you want to just paint your favourite army and play it for fun all the power to you.

I've taken long breaks from 40k, but never sold off my stuff/gave up on the game.

I'm mostly a painter, though. I picked up Rogue Trader back in the day but mostly painted a bunch of random models. Skipped all of 2nd but came back when the Tau were released, played the game a bit in 3rd, skipped 4th entirely and did a some tournaments back in 5th. I skipped 6th and most of 7th to paint other stuff, came back in time for 8th, had only a few games of that then COVID hit and I'm mostly back to just painting in 9th.

I mostly pick up codexes for theorycrafting and making sure my models are built sensibly/legally should the clouds part and I actually get in a game. Until the last few years it took me a long time to get an army to tournament size as I generally was doing character level paint jobs on everything. Even my tournament Death Guard army took a while because I heavily converted it, though the painting was pretty slap-dash.

GW's price shenanigans probably affect me a lot less because I'm not chasing tournament level forces in short time frames. If you spread the cost of 2000pt army across 2-3 (or longer!) years the price jumps really don't bother you nearly as much as if you wanted to get up and running in 3-4 months or are chasing the meta. Also at my age my planning horizon is a lot longer and I'm a lot more patient in waiting for deals for projects I might want to do.

I play a ton of different game systems and they rise and fall in popularity. There's general favorites, but I just have my armies for when people are excited again. Right now I'm very cold on 40k so its pretty middle of the pile and isn't really seeing much play. No reason to quit things; just play something else for a while.

As some people on the Eldar rumours thread might've seen. I'm not happy about the high prices GW are selling the new Eldar minis here in New Zealand, it's frigging ludicrous $105.00 for the two Warlock kit. $115.00 for five Dark Reapers I should have seen this coming with the 355.00 Eldritch Omens box. It is ridiculous and I'm seriously considering leaving the hobby again out of protest. The price gouging here in NZ is just insane even with outfits like Mighty Ape giving discounts.

 Adrassil wrote:
As some people on the Eldar rumours thread might've seen. I'm not happy about the high prices GW are selling the new Eldar minis here in New Zealand, it's frigging ludicrous $105.00 for the two Warlock kit. $115.00 for five Dark Reapers I should have seen this coming with the 355.00 Eldritch Omens box. It is ridiculous and I'm seriously considering leaving the hobby again out of protest. The price gouging here in NZ is just insane even with outfits like Mighty Ape giving discounts.

the only other option realistically is, to find 3rd party minis (depending upon faction very difficult and or even more expensive) and to not bother anymore with official GW minis.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Adrassil wrote:
As some people on the Eldar rumours thread might've seen. I'm not happy about the high prices GW are selling the new Eldar minis here in New Zealand, it's frigging ludicrous $105.00 for the two Warlock kit. $115.00 for five Dark Reapers I should have seen this coming with the 355.00 Eldritch Omens box. It is ridiculous and I'm seriously considering leaving the hobby again out of protest. The price gouging here in NZ is just insane even with outfits like Mighty Ape giving discounts.

the only other option realistically is, to find 3rd party minis (depending upon faction very difficult and or even more expensive) and to not bother anymore with official GW minis.

I would like to get a 3D printer as there are some great looking files to buy online everything would be so much cheaper, just can't play them at GWs but oh-frigging-well.

Honestly these days i feel like i'm forcing myself to play 40k rather than enjoying playing 40k. That isn't a good sign.

Honestly i just want to play another game system but i dunno what game communities are available in my local area. As is the GW is like 20 mins away and the last game store i went to was at least 30 mins. away. I want to continue gaming but maybe leave GW. It's a mixture of imbalance, toxicity, prices, factions given preferred attention or love, the arms race between factions changing every month or two (forcing constant buying of new models), the death of Warhammer Fantasy, GW's treatment of fan sites and work and just so much.

I know a 40k player that played chaos and he just was so sick of GW's treatment of them he went to AoS. Honestly i'd leave GW completely if i wasn't a creature of habit with things.

 Adrassil wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Adrassil wrote:
As some people on the Eldar rumours thread might've seen. I'm not happy about the high prices GW are selling the new Eldar minis here in New Zealand, it's frigging ludicrous $105.00 for the two Warlock kit. $115.00 for five Dark Reapers I should have seen this coming with the 355.00 Eldritch Omens box. It is ridiculous and I'm seriously considering leaving the hobby again out of protest. The price gouging here in NZ is just insane even with outfits like Mighty Ape giving discounts.

the only other option realistically is, to find 3rd party minis (depending upon faction very difficult and or even more expensive) and to not bother anymore with official GW minis.

I would like to get a 3D printer as there are some great looking files to buy online everything would be so much cheaper, just can't play them at GWs but oh-frigging-well.

TBH i have no idea about how your community is structured, if you require GW stores then yeah, tough luck , but if you don't then honestly go ahead.
The issue as of yet with 3d printing is the learning curve, toxicity of the material (resin) and space it takes. Whilest GW / 3rd parties offer an ease of access so to speak.
Otoh, i just recently did my last or second last purchase from gw due to the pricing, gonna finish my pile of orky shame instead.

flamingkillamajig wrote:Honestly these days i feel like i'm forcing myself to play 40k rather than enjoying playing 40k. That isn't a good sign.

Honestly i just want to play another game system but i dunno what game communities are available in my local area. As is the GW is like 20 mins away and the last game store i went to was at least 30 mins. away. I want to continue gaming but maybe leave GW. It's a mixture of imbalance, toxicity, prices, factions given preferred attention or love, the arms race between factions changing every month or two (forcing constant buying of new models), the death of Warhammer Fantasy, GW's treatment of fan sites and work and just so much.

I know a 40k player that played chaos and he just was so sick of GW's treatment of them he went to AoS. Honestly i'd leave GW completely if i wasn't a creature of habit with things.

I remember thinking that I could safely leave GW behind because Infinity was popular enough to find a game in almost any city.
Which kind of games are you looking for? If you can find the forum or Facebook group or that game you will likely get pointed to players near you if you ask.

There are so many good games out there and the have players closer than you think.

-

Left when I hit 1st year, came back after I graduated with a degree.

The game (slowly) improves continually so I stay in it.

Don't think ill be able to play 40k again unless an updated ruleset including AA and a return of unit facing, initiative and meaningful leadership. Games feel too static, with little option to decide the game using movement and positioning.

Extreme weapon ranges, odd strategems. Everyone says the game is "won in the movement phase", but I don't really feel there is that much strategy in movement, the decisions to be made are fairly obvious and victory comes through tricking your opponent with a strategem they didn't know about/forgot. There's nothing chess-like about that kind of manoeuvring.


It feels more static than MTG. I enjoy 28mm GW minis for some skirmish games (Inquisitor 28 mostly).

Small scale rank and flank is what occupies my time along with classic epic40k.

It's nitpicking, but there's a difference between leaving 40k rules (which I assume the OP is referring to) l, leaving the official minis and leaving the setting.

For myself, I stopped playing 40k (rules, setting and minis) entirely in 5th edition, but a few years later I dug out my armies and started occasionally dabbling in battles with the minis and 40k setting but using different rules.

Now I regularly play Grimdark Future with my son using nearly all official 40k minis and outdated Codices and such for fluff and setting. We're having allot of fun.

I can say I quit 40k as I left the rules long ago and haven't bought nearly any new GW miniatures in a decade. But have I really quit if I'm still buying novels and used figs and Codices and regularly putting my armies on the table?

As a further example, our clubs KoW campaign is set in the Warhammer Old World Border Princes Region and the players are about split 3 ways between those whose armies are all/mostly GW, half GW and no GW figures. By the math, is our campaign half Warhammer?


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 Sim-Life wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Yeah, I discover new groups every day
I think I'm up to 6 that I'm aware of.

Point stands though, I can close my eyes, throw a rock, and I'm also guaranteed to hit a 40k club. But another game? That takes digging.

JuSt InTrOdUcE tHe GaMe To NeW pLaYeRs BrO

It's not easy
Lots of digging! I've got a 10 year old club with folks that play other games and -from speaking to folks who have tried the same thing unsuccessfully- I still view that largely as a strike of luck, helped along allot by living in a major metropolitan area

I just can't do army games anymore, I much prefer smaller skirmish systems closer in scale to stargrave. And the price increases have made the choice even easier, with 10 man box now costing almost as much as a brand new AAA video game.

I really love the new squats, but I might just wait and see if they get killteam rules. Starting up a 2k point army with the way things are going seems inconceivable.

 Thargrim wrote:
I just can't do army games anymore, I much prefer smaller skirmish systems closer in scale to stargrave. And the price increases have made the choice even easier, with 10 man box now costing almost as much as a brand new AAA video game.

I really love the new squats, but I might just wait and see if they get killteam rules. Starting up a 2k point army with the way things are going seems inconceivable.

Its hard to overstate the crippling prices of 40k, it ultimately drove me into 3d printing, which i never would have willingly done - it was drive strictly by economics. I like to relax listening to audiobooks while I paint stuff and then have weekend games with friends with the models. But none of us can reasonably budget the massive cost of multiple 2,000 point armies. The value for the product isn't there. GW prices are divorced from reality. Plain and simple.

Now with a few patreon subs and a 3d printer, a lot more is possible (and also finicky and time-consuming). But like any hobby with practice comes skill and now i'm quite happy to support small-time creatives who sculpt as their side-hustle. They do awesome work and appreciate my hard-earned cash much more.

I'm kind of stuck in this space where the new rules are way to confusing, in that I can't just look at a model and get a base understanding of what it's going to do.

8/9th seem to be much more: This model is a stand in for all these card abilities that I will now play to cause it to do 14/15 damage.

it's so bad GW is now adding rules limiting the amount of damage models can take per phase. Which just compounds the issue.

I also have lots of older models which are getting phased out via unsupported or poor rules. And I have less time to play anyway due to kids.

Even HH, where I was very hopeful, has pulled the "half your models suck or are unusable now"

I haven't played a 40k game in probably about 10 years.
The only opponents I could find seemed to only be interested in min maxing, and by the time I had finally painted a playable 1500 pt army there was already a new edition to the rules, if not two.

I still have fond memories of my early games, and have only sold a little bit of my unpainted minis, but for me the only enjoyment left in the hobby is solely tied to the building/painting aspect.

Durandal wrote:
I'm kind of stuck in this space where the new rules are way to confusing, in that I can't just look at a model and get a base understanding of what it's going to do.

8/9th seem to be much more: This model is a stand in for all these card abilities that I will now play to cause it to do 14/15 damage.

it's so bad GW is now adding rules limiting the amount of damage models can take per phase. Which just compounds the issue.

Hey, no worries. Its already progressed to the point that models have rules that state that the damage they do can't be limited And invulnerable saves that can't be ignored by things that ignore invulnerable saves.

For a while now, I guess I've been "soft, leaving" 40k. Now, interested in One Page Rules, but Space Station Zero even more so (which is a TT Skirmish game mixed with a Choose Your Own Adventure book). I've been buying minis off Etsy and W Artel. I bought some Warp Spider proxies from them, and they're brilliant. Not too many details, amusing to paint, and the quality of the resin is 100x better than GW's Failcast. Buying minis 2nd hand on Amazon, too (but that isn't too much cheaper than buying from GW here due to really high freight costs to here in NZ, though)

I'm also becoming increasingly a fan of Mantic stuff, especially their terrain. I bought a box of Zombies, and I like giant monsters and some drones, and the level of detail is damn lovely. They and twenty robots from Anvil Industries, and while the proportions are old school GW (three heads tall including the head), They're very detailed and easy to paint.

Also, I found a locally based mini outfit that I had custom print a bunch of Hero Forge minis I made. They'll be an excellent place to go to until I get my own 3d Printer; it's also a lot cheaper than buying directly from HF. I've also tried to spread out and buy non-GW things like paintbrushes, primer, bases, etc. Some paint from Scale 75, their flesh paint is excellent. Maybe one day, I won't have to buy much from GW again.

Now having a lot of fun with Space Station Zero. I played two games today, and the only GW minis I used were the 2nd hand scarabs I bought from eBay. It's also a much simpler and streamlined game than Kill Team 2: Electric Boogaloo and one player, so it really appeals to me as a hermit from society lol. I remember back in the Astronomican days when during an RP session against another forum member described my character as living in a cave which I found very fitting, indeed lol. Man...I miss that forum.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Honestly these days i feel like i'm forcing myself to play 40k rather than enjoying playing 40k. That isn't a good sign.

Honestly i just want to play another game system but i dunno what game communities are available in my local area. As is the GW is like 20 mins away and the last game store i went to was at least 30 mins. away. I want to continue gaming but maybe leave GW. It's a mixture of imbalance, toxicity, prices, factions given preferred attention or love, the arms race between factions changing every month or two (forcing constant buying of new models), the death of Warhammer Fantasy, GW's treatment of fan sites and work and just so much.

I know a 40k player that played chaos and he just was so sick of GW's treatment of them he went to AoS. Honestly i'd leave GW completely if i wasn't a creature of habit with things.

I got you beat my FLGS is an hour away, some of the guys are close buy within a few miles but others are nearly as far out as i am.

That is why game night is an all day thing. we are usually there at least 12 hours. and since it is not a GW store we play a bit of everything. the hot trend right now is FOW and BattleTech, but we run things as obscure as B5 wars, specter operations, DUST, castles in the sky, monpoc etc... and of course all the GW games no longer allowed in GW stores.

Someone said, GW is the entry point to the hobby, but like all things that fase will end.

Dropping GW is a natural evolution of the hobby, as that is when the world of miniature games realy opens up to you as you.
I dropped main GW in mid 20, and specialist games in early 21.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Someone said, GW is the entry point to the hobby, but like all things that fase will end.

Dropping GW is a natural evolution of the hobby, as that is when the world of miniature games realy opens up to you as you.
I dropped main GW in mid 20, and specialist games in early 21.

I...guess. I see many people stay lodged in the GW echo chamber, though. The strange, crazed GW fanatics I see in the Facebook groups or subreddits who hate YouTubers like Discourse Miniatures or The Outer Circle with a passion that should be reserved for actually horrible people and have no interest in other companies in the hobby. It's scary how many people are like that.

 Adrassil wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Someone said, GW is the entry point to the hobby, but like all things that fase will end.

Dropping GW is a natural evolution of the hobby, as that is when the world of miniature games realy opens up to you as you.
I dropped main GW in mid 20, and specialist games in early 21.

I...guess. I see many people stay lodged in the GW echo chamber, though. The strange, crazed GW fanatics I see in the Facebook groups or subreddits who hate YouTubers like Discourse Miniatures or The Outer Circle with a passion that should be reserved for actually horrible people and have no interest in other companies in the hobby. It's scary how many people are like that.

That is addiction, or Fan fever. (we all know how bad that can get if not kept in control)
I think thouse people did not get any alternatives to GW when they started. I supplemented this 40k fan forum with beastofwar(ontabletop) and got a healty dose of perspective about this hobby very early on. Only reason i am still using this place is the painting and modeling, news, and other games sub section.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Someone said, GW is the entry point to the hobby, but like all things that fase will end.

Dropping GW is a natural evolution of the hobby, as that is when the world of miniature games realy opens up to you as you.
I dropped main GW in mid 20, and specialist games in early 21.

Maybe it ends completely, but maybe it just gets incorporated on your own terms. I mentioned earlier that I've been playing Grimdark Future with my son recently. Brought out my IG army for the first time in years for a game this weekend and I was struck by both how much I never want to go back to 40k rules and how much I still like the 40k figures and setting.