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 jy2 wrote:
BTW, were you guys playing the new GW FAQ (i.e. auto-hit Shrieks)?

We were practicing for a tourney this weekend and since that event is not using the new FAQ (since they are first draft) we did not. Given that the tetrad princes hit 35/36 of the time (rerolling 1s to hit) it did not make a difference.

I'm kinda concerned about the "auto-hit" Shriek. This will make Jinking a bit less appealing, since Jinking makes you snap fire and 'auto-hit" shooting attacks cannot fire snap shoots. Especially since you don't get 'toe-in-cover' while swooping anymore, you will be encouraged to either Jink more, or stay on the ground more.

 Galef wrote:
I'm kinda concerned about the "auto-hit" Shriek. This will make Jinking a bit less appealing, since Jinking makes you snap fire and 'auto-hit" shooting attacks cannot fire snap shoots. Especially since you don't get 'toe-in-cover' while swooping anymore, you will be encouraged to either Jink more, or stay on the ground more.

Would you really be casting shriek jinking anyway ? You'd hit on sixes and have to invest warp charge.

 Darksider wrote:
Which Build of the Tetrad do you think is better? Tetrad + Knights or Tetrad + MSU?

I also want to ask is there a viable Build for a 1500 Point Tetrad List? In my area there a lots of 1500 or 1850 Games and at home we also play a lot of 1500 Point Games.

It's going to take more testing to really find out.
There is a lot to be said for bringing 44 horrors to give psychic support and lots of Obsec. When you fuel the princes with 20+ warp dice they can cause a lot of havoc. On the other hand, knights can just roll through those units -- which is what they did.

In a format like NOVA where I can score at the end, I can go out of my way to smash all his units and grab objectives at the end. In a format like ITC I think the MSU is better where you are progressively scoring by default.

In a 1500 point game, you are ahead because the tetrad can take up a larger percentage of your army. I would grab a big tetrad in your case and a small CaD. If you have the models, I would try this.

Infernal Tetrad
···Daemon Prince of Khorne [Armour of Scorn, 2x Greater Reward, 1x Lesser Reward, Flight]
···Daemon Prince of Nurgle [2x Greater Reward, 1x Lesser Reward, Flight, ML 3]
···Daemon Prince of Slaanesh [2x Greater Reward, Flight, ML 3, Soulstealer]
···Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [The Impossible Robe, 2x Greater Reward, 1x Lesser Reward, Flight, ML 3]

CaD
···Hearld of Tzeentch
...11 Horrors
...10 Horrors

It gives you 4 psychic support dice to toss to your princes, and lets you also summon extra models if you don't need the dice on your princes.


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 Galef wrote:
I'm kinda concerned about the "auto-hit" Shriek. This will make Jinking a bit less appealing, since Jinking makes you snap fire and 'auto-hit" shooting attacks cannot fire snap shoots. Especially since you don't get 'toe-in-cover' while swooping anymore, you will be encouraged to either Jink more, or stay on the ground more.

It's been my experience that in 80% of the turns you have a Tetrad, they should be gliding and not swooping.

One of the reasons I won the game last night is that my opponent said to himself "My slaanesh prince has iron arm and lash of submission, I'll swoop him around and rain 2d6 STR 10 shots down every turn". That is exactly what it did, and overall it managed to do 3 wounds with shriek, 1 wound with lash, and 2 hull points off my knights.

That STR 10 prince would have been much better suited on the ground smashing the face in on knights (especially since he also rolled warp speed!)

When I started playing the Tetrad I made the same mistake often. I tried 2 games with them and thought they were useless. "Man, I'm paying a 280 point tax just for the Khorne Prince"

Someone here on Dakka mentioned that keeping the entire quartet on the ground in the middle of Be'lakor was a good tactic. At first I thought "No way!", they would just get shot off the board. Then I tried it, and was amazed at the results.

It's counter-intuitive to keep them gliding most of the game as we all think FMCs should be swooping, but that's the best way I've seen to play them. All I can suggest is trying it.

Thanks for your fast answers. I really appreciate that^^.


I also think that testing will show us, which way is the right one.

But in my opinions there are already two viable Lists

1st with Tetrad + 2 Renegade Knights
2nd with Tetrad + Belakor with 2x11 Horrors

MSU Spam is kinda hard to make with the Tetrad, because they already eat a large portion of your Pointlimit.

Also do i think that swooping is better for the Tetrad, cause you don't waste the potential of the Demonprinces in CC and as Areacontrol Unit. Nobody wants to get charged by a few DPs with Str 7 or Str 8 with 6-7 Attacks and AP 2.

 Darksider wrote:
Thanks for all the replies^^.

It's very interesting to see what this FAQ will change.

@Labmouse42


Which Build of the Tetrad do you think is better? Tetrad + Knights or Tetrad + MSU?


I also want to ask is there a viable Build for a 1500 Point Tetrad List? In my area there a lots of 1500 or 1850 Games and at home we also play a lot of 1500 Point Games.

At smaller games, Summoning gives you better results. Opposing armies just do not have as much resources to take on the extra units as they would in larger games.

At 1500 I'd go with a Tzeentch Herald and at least 1 unit of 11 Horrors.

 Darksider wrote:
Thanks for your fast answers. I really appreciate that^^.


I also think that testing will show us, which way is the right one.

But in my opinions there are already two viable Lists

1st with Tetrad + 2 Renegade Knights
2nd with Tetrad + Belakor with 2x11 Horrors

MSU Spam is kinda hard to make with the Tetrad, because they already eat a large portion of your Pointlimit.

Also do i think that swooping is better for the Tetrad, cause you don't waste the potential of the Demonprinces in CC and as Areacontrol Unit. Nobody wants to get charged by a few DPs with Str 7 or Str 8 with 6-7 Attacks and AP 2.

If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.

I wonder how the Tetrad will fair against SM deathstars. If the conclave roll everything on librarius and get the null zone power its gonna be bad news for any daemon unit. I mean you can throw all your 20 WC to deny it, math average out to 3 sixes, but the conclave just have to get 4-5 WC off on 2+ which should be easy. And also with the new GW Faq, daemons can't stack cursed earth anymore. The tetrad may just have to stay swooping and kill off their supporting units and avoid the death star all game.

Unless its Ravenwing+SW deathstar, the bell+a bunch of shrieks will hurt them. But against IH deathstar where there are many 3++ (re-roll with veil) and 3+++ FNP, its gonna be almost impossible to kill. Only thing I can think of is maybe the Lash prince shooting with Iron arm and that Tzeetnch D spell. You can charge them with a Nurgle prince with baleful sword, but most likely it'll get crushed in return.

EDIT: Nvm a Lvl3 DP can deny a Lvl2 Libby on a 4+, so Nullzone aside basically only the Tzeentch DP can reliably survive a SM deathstar onslaught

anyway at broadside bash an infernal tetrad plus horrors PB and their heralds made a 3rd place, i think is a good army list anyway.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.

Yep. C'est la vie

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
I wonder how the Tetrad will fair against SM deathstars. If the conclave roll everything on librarius and get the null zone power its gonna be bad news for any daemon unit.

I just played a game of this with my buddy Pat. He brought a nasty list with space wolves and white scars. He had my tzeentch prince marked for death, cast null zone, then shot 12 grav into him on turn one -- killing the normally unkillable prince.
I then assaulted with the Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh princes and two knights and absolutely f***ing murdered him. The nurgle prince got warp speed off, and ID'ed his way through the squad chopping right through librarians ignoring his FNP. The princes killed so much one knight could not even swing and neither could stomp.He got a few swings off on some princes but lost all but 1 of his librarians, kahn, and 2 command squad bikes.

The fled Kahn into another one of his units, and then assaulted with his librarian and 2 command bikers into the Khorne prince, who ate them for breakfast. He blew up a knight with melta, and over the new few turns managed to kill 3 princes total. The slaanesh prince, with 1 wound left, cast possession and turned himself into a D-thirster who grabbed the relic.

Most of the game was cleanup. I failed a four 7" charges in a row, and so off of objectives, secondaries and tretaries, he won by 1 point. If I had made even one of those charges, I would have won the game.

Either way, it was a great game vs a highly skilled player. Pat was telling me, and I agree, that the knights bark is worse than their bite. They look scary, but unless you get some lucky stomp rolls they are not the real threat. The tetrad is just so damn deadly and did most of the heavy lifting that game.

As I mentioned earlier, I would not bring the 'Pacific Rim' list to a ITC event. Progressive scoring strongly favors different armies, and bringing a tzeentch knight that can get a 2++ is way to good to pass up.


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 SonsofVulkan wrote:
EDIT: Nvm a Lvl3 DP can deny a Lvl2 Libby on a 4+, so Nullzone aside basically only the Tzeentch DP can reliably survive a SM deathstar onslaught

Does NullZone target a unit or model? We played it as having no target requiring a 6 to deny.

There was an article on the mathhammer of denial on frontline gaming's page this week. If you read it, you can see that 20 dice has a 43% chance of denying 4 successes on a 6+

Edit : Well ... bloody 'ell. I just read that it's a malediction. Denying on a 4++ means that I would have stopped it cold with 10 dice, and then I would not have lost the Tzeentch prince. Oh well, live and learn

@Labmouse: From the current primer on the website: Strike the Rank and File – If you destroy every enemy Troop unit (not counting Dedicated Transports), you achieve this Secondary. Note: if the opponent has no Troop choices (or all of their Troop choices do not count for scoring purposes), you achieve it automatically.

So if you have no troops or only muclids like troops in a flyrant list, you will surrender these two points essentially every game.

@sunsofvulkan

If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.



I am new to the tournament scene and so I don't know if there is a tournament like NOVA in our country. But I also think that the troop choices aren't bad, because of Obsec.

@jy2


Thanks^^. But do you have the warpcharge to attempt more than one try to summon a unit, without gimping yourself to much? (DPs also need their buffs^^)

 blackmage wrote:
anyway at broadside bash an infernal tetrad plus horrors PB and their heralds made a 3rd place, i think is a good army list anyway.

Where do you see that?

According to this site, there were no Tetrad in the top 8 at least:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/04/29/broadside-bash-2016-tournament-blog/
The only Daemon player in the top 8 fielded a Nurgle army of Demonic Incursion, CSM Cabal and Renegades of Vraks.

Spiky Norman wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
anyway at broadside bash an infernal tetrad plus horrors PB and their heralds made a 3rd place, i think is a good army list anyway.

Where do you see that?

According to this site, there were no Tetrad in the top 8 at least:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/04/29/broadside-bash-2016-tournament-blog/
The only Daemon player in the top 8 fielded a Nurgle army of Demonic Incursion, CSM Cabal and Renegades of Vraks.

He's got it confused with Storm of Silence GT, where a Tetrad player got 3rd or 4th place.




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 Darksider wrote:

@jy2


Thanks^^. But do you have the warpcharge to attempt more than one try to summon a unit, without gimping yourself to much? (DPs also need their buffs^^)

You don't have to spend all your WC on buffing your units. At 1500, your opponent won't have nearly the firepower that he would at 1850 to kill your DP's. Moreover, your Nurgle DP can jink for 2+ cover. You can spare the charge to do at least 1 Summoning a turn and that's all you really need. If you can summon 1 unit a turn, that will be almost a 500-pt advantage you will have over your opponent over the course of 5 turns.

@jy2

Thanks ^^.

Okay so i summon one unit a turn. What should i summon? Hounds to grab objectives faster or some Horrors to gain more Warpcharges?

Another question to me is, why do opponents lack the firepower on 1500 points? Do 350 Points really make that much difference? Its one Knight or so less but you can already fit 3 Knights into 1500 Points.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.

Yep. C'est la vie

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
I wonder how the Tetrad will fair against SM deathstars. If the conclave roll everything on librarius and get the null zone power its gonna be bad news for any daemon unit.

I just played a game of this with my buddy Pat. He brought a nasty list with space wolves and white scars. He had my tzeentch prince marked for death, cast null zone, then shot 12 grav into him on turn one -- killing the normally unkillable prince.
I then assaulted with the Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh princes and two knights and absolutely f***ing murdered him. The nurgle prince got warp speed off, and ID'ed his way through the squad chopping right through librarians ignoring his FNP. The princes killed so much one knight could not even swing and neither could stomp.He got a few swings off on some princes but lost all but 1 of his librarians, kahn, and 2 command squad bikes.

The fled Kahn into another one of his units, and then assaulted with his librarian and 2 command bikers into the Khorne prince, who ate them for breakfast. He blew up a knight with melta, and over the new few turns managed to kill 3 princes total. The slaanesh prince, with 1 wound left, cast possession and turned himself into a D-thirster who grabbed the relic.

Most of the game was cleanup. I failed a four 7" charges in a row, and so off of objectives, secondaries and tretaries, he won by 1 point. If I had made even one of those charges, I would have won the game.

Either way, it was a great game vs a highly skilled player. Pat was telling me, and I agree, that the knights bark is worse than their bite. They look scary, but unless you get some lucky stomp rolls they are not the real threat. The tetrad is just so damn deadly and did most of the heavy lifting that game.

As I mentioned earlier, I would not bring the 'Pacific Rim' list to a ITC event. Progressive scoring strongly favors different armies, and bringing a tzeentch knight that can get a 2++ is way to good to pass up.


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 SonsofVulkan wrote:
EDIT: Nvm a Lvl3 DP can deny a Lvl2 Libby on a 4+, so Nullzone aside basically only the Tzeentch DP can reliably survive a SM deathstar onslaught

Does NullZone target a unit or model? We played it as having no target requiring a 6 to deny.

There was an article on the mathhammer of denial on frontline gaming's page this week. If you read it, you can see that 20 dice has a 43% chance of denying 4 successes on a 6+

Edit : Well ... bloody 'ell. I just read that it's a malediction. Denying on a 4++ means that I would have stopped it cold with 10 dice, and then I would not have lost the Tzeentch prince. Oh well, live and learn

No if you have no troop choices you auto give up 2 pts secondary

In that situation it was imperative for the SM to cast veil of time than null zone. 3++ with reroll will make any deathstar way more survivable, and just hope no 6s are rolled on the D or stomp table. I run IH star with a CM (2+++ fnp) and lots of other 3++ with 3+++ FNP.

Also a Khorne DP is probably a better to mark for death. But regardless I'd target the prince with iron arm first since it's way more dangerous, and concussive from grav guns will make DP hit at init 1. And once one prince dies, the rest are back to T5.

yes sorry i made confusion was talking about the storm of silence.

Question- I am putting together a Tetrad list right now . Includes a double Gatling knight and a small daemon cad to fill the last 155 points.
Basically it comes to the Nurgle Prince- I was thinking of using the "corruption weapon"... I usually use the bales word but I kinda like the idea of corruption. Still has touch of rust to glance out vehicles, but loses instant death... Difference is I auto-wound with every hit. Gonna be titing on 3 or 4 most of time anyways.... Or do I keep balesword to ID those tough MC s ?
In the list I made I have a greater reward on the Nurgle Prince anyways, so I can have both weapons and just use the balesword for when I need the ID

 Darksider wrote:
@jy2

Thanks ^^.

Okay so i summon one unit a turn. What should i summon? Hounds to grab objectives faster or some Horrors to gain more Warpcharges?

Another question to me is, why do opponents lack the firepower on 1500 points? Do 350 Points really make that much difference? Its one Knight or so less but you can already fit 3 Knights into 1500 Points.

Flesh Hounds or Daemonettes are the best units to summon. Pink Horrors are secondary.

Tzeentch Heralds are also great if you get Sacrifice.

From 1850 (the tournament standard here in the US) to 1500 is an average decrease of about 19% in offense/firepower. That could mean a significant difference. For example, in an Eldar army, that could be 13 Scatterbikes. For a Marine army, that is more than 4 Grav Centurions. For a Tau army, that is 5 High-yield broadsides. For a Daemon army, that is less almost 22 Flesh Hounds.

K got it^^.

So Hounds > Daemonettes > Horrors

Wow i didn't thougt that 350 Points will decrease an armies power by almost 20%. Thats really crazy^^.

Thanks for sharing that information^^.

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
Question- I am putting together a Tetrad list right now . Includes a double Gatling knight and a small daemon cad to fill the last 155 points.
Basically it comes to the Nurgle Prince- I was thinking of using the "corruption weapon"... I usually use the bales word but I kinda like the idea of corruption. Still has touch of rust to glance out vehicles, but loses instant death... Difference is I auto-wound with every hit. Gonna be titing on 3 or 4 most of time anyways.... Or do I keep balesword to ID those tough MC s ?
In the list I made I have a greater reward on the Nurgle Prince anyways, so I can have both weapons and just use the balesword for when I need the ID

The Balesword is superior. Period. Don't waste your points. Instead, use those points to buy another Greater Reward, if not for the Nurgle DP then for another DP. The problem here is that defensive buffs are more important than offensive ones. What good is having both the Balesword and the corruption weapon if your DP cannot live long enough to use them? You need more defensive buffs in Greater Rewards or more Psyker Mastery Levels to try to get some defensive psychic powers.

 jy2 wrote:
The problem here is that defensive buffs are more important than offensive ones.

This is actually a point in favour of Corruption, since it means you can still have a good weapon without needing to sacrifice one of your 2 greater rewards and therefore, survivability.

I still think 2 greaters and using one for the balesword is better, but corruption does have its place, even if it it extremely niche.

Balesword is straight up ID, right?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Balesword is straight up ID, right?

Yep.

about balesword-----corruption, most depend what you face most, if you face things like wraithknights corruption is better, about unit to summon i found very useful screamers, you summon them turbobost on objective and try to keep it, when you summon 3-4 units you can let them score obj points and tetrad slam damage into opponent face.

Here is what im planing to do please tell me whats best:

1. knights+ tetrad
2. riptide wing + tetrad
3. infernal tetrad+ cyclopia cabal+ flesh hounds allies
4. infernal tetrad+ stealth cadre
5. infernal tetrad+ ork big mek stompa
6. infernal tetrad+ destoryer cult
7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation

sorry for the spam, and if you need to see the lists i have go ahead and ask

With Destroyer Cult? How the hell do you have points for that?

 -v10mega wrote:
Here is what im planing to do please tell me whats best:

1. knights+ tetrad
2. riptide wing + tetrad
3. infernal tetrad+ cyclopia cabal+ flesh hounds allies
4. infernal tetrad+ stealth cadre
5. infernal tetrad+ ork big mek stompa
6. infernal tetrad+ destoryer cult
7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation

sorry for the spam, and if you need to see the lists i have go ahead and ask

I'll give you my rankings for these lists, on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being a top-tier GT-winning list.

1. knights+ tetrad - 7. Objectives is a problem with this list. You almost have to go for the table to win in many scenarios.

2. riptide wing + tetrad - 7.5. Riptide wing is a solid addition to almost any lists. Moreover, they provide the Tetrad with much needed firepower. However, besides the shooting, riptides don't buff up the Tetrad in any ways and without Markerlight support, they aren't nearly as effective as they could be.

3. infernal tetrad+ cyclopia cabal+ flesh hounds allies - 7. You need at least 2K to run this list effectively. You won't be able to do it at 1850 without taking away from the Tetrad. They make for a good force-multiplier but the unit is potentially fragile.

4. infernal tetrad+ stealth cadre - 6. Not as good as riptide wing + tetrad. Less firepower and less resiliency.

5. 5. infernal tetrad+ ork big mek stompa - 6. Scoring will be a problem. I'd rather run 2 Knights over 1 Stompa.

6. infernal tetrad+ destoryer cult - 8. Necron resiliency and decent/shooting + mobility makes the Destroyer Cult another welcome add-on formation to many armies. I actually like this build.

7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation - 8.5. This is potentially a very good build if you can fit all of that in. 2K is doable but unfortunately, I don't think you can do it at 1850 (assuming the Burning Skyhost formation). This is my favorite of all the builds you have listed. Too bad it won't work at 1850.




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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
With Destroyer Cult? How the hell do you have points for that?

It's only about 550-600 pts, depending on upgrades and whether you take Heavy Destroyers as well. It is doable at 1850.

just realized unless its an itc thing that chaos daemons cant ally unless you are orks, csm, or deldar


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so there goes my intense love of daemon princes. back to the drawing board for making my chaos space marines and princes comeptitve!

 -v10mega wrote:
1. knights+ tetrad

I can tell you from this past weekend that this does not work in a tourney. You lack enough models to really do damage.

 jy2 wrote:
7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation - 8.5. This is potentially a very good build if you can fit all of that in. 2K is doable but unfortunately, I don't think you can do it at 1850 (assuming the Burning Skyhost formation). This is my favorite of all the builds you have listed. Too bad it won't work at 1850.

You --could-- make it fit with a 1245 tetrad. That's what I ran over this weekend, and it was not the tetrad that was the weak point, it was the two knights I brought.
If you bring 27 screamers, a 45 point herald, and a 25 point disc, you have 1245 points left over for the tetrad. The burning host will run you 745.
Unlike the two knights, it gives you a lot more units to score with.

However, I cannot stress this enough. Running a warphost formation mitigates the warp storm table to an incredible degree. I lost one game because a 4 came up on the warp storm table, meaning that even through I was rerolling saves, going from a 3+ to a 4+ on the tzeentch prince killed him. In two games I rolled a 3, causing 2 wounds in one instance and killing another prince in another game. When you only have 6 models, losing a prince to bad luck can easily cost you the game.

The tetrad is a lot better at 2k and 2500 than 1850. There is a reason you don't see it winning at big events.

 -v10mega wrote:
just realized unless its an itc thing that chaos daemons cant ally unless you are orks, csm, or deldar


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so there goes my intense love of daemon princes. back to the drawing board for making my chaos space marines and princes comeptitve!

NOVA format you can.

Stick with a Daemon screamer star CAD:
Herald on disk, grim, lvl2 or 3
2x10 Horrors
6xScreamers