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I know Necrosius is cheaper, but does anyone think the extra durability of Typhus might make him a better choice?

Seriously, I wouldn't know how to fit Destroyer Cult in, though. I like putting some points into it, and have a Harvest to go with for the Lord.

Actually, that might be a better option: Canoptek Harvest. It is 230 minimum to invest in.

 labmouse42 wrote:

On 6's with the Axe of Khorne you are ID'ing on 6s instead of D'ing on 6s. Lets compare the three cases.
* If you are hitting a target without EW and is not a GC, then one wound will kill the model outright. The Daxe will only be doing D3 wounds unless another 6 is rolled.
* If you are hitting a target that is a GC, then the ID weapon will be doing d3 wounds, just like the Daxe, unless another 6 is rolled.
* If you are hitting a target with EW, then the Daxe is better.

In most cases, the Axe of Khorne will do the job as well as the Daxe (since you have a 1/36 chance of getting 2 sixes in a row). In some cases the Axe of Khorne will do better, like against a BT.

The best thing about the Axe of Khorne is that it's 10 points, and you still can bring 2 greaters AND the armor of scorn. It's a win-win.
I usually wind up getting the Axe and Blade on the Khorne prince, since 25% of the time will I get two defensive rewards. This means in assault he has 5 base + 1 extra specialist weapon + d3 rampage attacks + 1 charging = 8-10 attacks on the charge. He completely wrecks units he runs into.

You left off vehicle comparisons too though. Personally, I was usually using my khorne prince and belakor to tackle imperial knights and other tough vehicles because the instant death is useless there but getting the d3 hullpoints was usually sufficient to wipe out armor values.

PanzerLeader wrote:
@labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.

My codex says "Anytime the wearer suffers an unsaved wound" If it just said "Anytime the wearer suffers an wound" people would say he had to make a LD test every time a wound was done before it was saved.

I guess it's a matter of interpretation. It's also possibly a codex difference, as there are at least two different versions out there.

 labmouse42 wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
@labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.

My codex says "Anytime the wearer suffers an unsaved wound" If it just said "Anytime the wearer suffers an wound" people would say he had to make a LD test every time a wound was done before it was saved.

I guess it's a matter of interpretation. It's also possibly a codex difference, as there are at least two different versions out there.

Unfortunately it's still an unsaved wound even if you don't get a saving roll in the first place. If the robes said "Anytime the wearer fails a save" there would be a case, but as it stands you still have to do the Ld test after a wound from perils. I'd feel bad trying to argue otherwise to an opponent tbh.

So what's the verdict on the Tetrad then?

Ive been putting off updating my daemons for a while, but thinking of doing it soon. I want to run an incursion style list either way, but I'm back and forth between a Tetrad based list, or a Murderhorde for my core. Which has more bite?

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
@labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.

My codex says "Anytime the wearer suffers an unsaved wound" If it just said "Anytime the wearer suffers an wound" people would say he had to make a LD test every time a wound was done before it was saved.

I guess it's a matter of interpretation. It's also possibly a codex difference, as there are at least two different versions out there.

Unfortunately it's still an unsaved wound even if you don't get a saving roll in the first place. If the robes said "Anytime the wearer fails a save" there would be a case, but as it stands you still have to do the Ld test after a wound from perils. I'd feel bad trying to argue otherwise to an opponent tbh.

I was actually playing RG when this came up and gave the demon player the benefit of the more favorable reading. If it matters, I'd clarify before hand with the TO. The rule set is not so well defined that all wounds suffered are automatically "unsaved wounds" and there is room for multiple readings. I also submitted the question to the 40K FAQs.

I think you're wasting the time of the FAQ team tbh. It's not in the same league as "Does reroll 1s allow you to reroll scatter dice" but if you really think it's ambiguous then ok.

I'd say it's a question of "Did you save the wound?" If No, then by definition it's an Unsaved wound.

I can't see the "unsaved wound" issue any other way than this:
Daemon with robes has wounds allocated to it --> Make saves if possible/take wounds if not --> Take FNP if possible ---> any wounds NOW counts as "unsaved wounds", take LD test for Robes.

Remember that even though FNP is NOT a save, it causes "unsaved wounds" to count as "saved wounds"

Tonberry7 wrote:I think you're wasting the time of the FAQ team tbh. It's not in the same league as "Does reroll 1s allow you to reroll scatter dice" but if you really think it's ambiguous then ok.

I'd say it's a question of "Did you save the wound?" If No, then by definition it's an Unsaved wound.

Galef wrote:I can't see the "unsaved wound" issue any other way than this:
Daemon with robes has wounds allocated to it --> Make saves if possible/take wounds if not --> Take FNP if possible ---> any wounds NOW counts as "unsaved wounds", take LD test for Robes.

Remember that even though FNP is NOT a save, it causes "unsaved wounds" to count as "saved wounds"

I see what you are both saying and I agree with it to an extent. I don't think the intent though was for the demon prince to incur the negatives of the wargear in situations where is not allowed to use its benefits (i.e. Perils). It falls in the same category to me as the Tetrad warlord traits: when you roll the +1 to save trait, does each prince get +1 to their invulnerable save or does the warlord receive a total of +4 to his invulnerable save? The intent certainly seems to be the former but by RAW it would be the latter.

I'll be ordering a skyshield tonight most likely for my R&H, should be very useful to have around. ++4 invul will be very handy. Might also be fun to have a tetrad+ R&H army.

As for Necrosius, his zombies are NON COMPULSORY. So you still need 2 cultist units, though his zombies are awesome, as they are vraks zombies! (agrument being that CSM zombies are cultists that become zombies, a special rule only typhus has, necrosius does not have this rule. He must take the unit, plague zombies, found in Siege of Vraks, where his rules are)

I have a list that is:
Tetrad - 1315pt
Vraks - PURGE::
Command squad 4x3 spawn
3x3 rapier laser destroyers

Comes out to 1817. I could drop 9pt from each eapier, or swap a spawn unit for another rapier, or earthshaker... Rapiers would give me the anti armor and anti knight oomph. Spawn would be some nice fast objective takers. 55pt for 3 is a steal. The Purge lets you take up to 6 elites.

For extra theme, you could do a purge with command squad. 6 units of spawn, and 2 giant spawn. Giant spawn act on their own, so its 2 more units running around. They wont post as big of a threat as the daemon princes, but left unchecked they are still dangerous. 6 units of spawn running around with the tetrad could be very awesome as well.

I, and other R&H players have had great luck with spawn spam, but its usually backed up by more guns than a tau army. So I am not sure how well it would do with the tetrad. Using them to snag objectives and take out smaller units would be nice though. Giant spawn could take out elite units too.


As for the robes and FnP, previous to FaQ, and post FaQ, all "on unsaved wound" things seem to be post FnP and RP rolls. Helfrost being a specific one of them. Previously it was at the same time, now it is after.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
So what's the verdict on the Tetrad then?

Ive been putting off updating my daemons for a while, but thinking of doing it soon. I want to run an incursion style list either way, but I'm back and forth between a Tetrad based list, or a Murderhorde for my core. Which has more bite?

I wasn't sure about the Tetrad at first, but now that I've tried it a couple of times I'd have to say it's a strong option, especially if you take it as part of a Daemonic Incursion detachment. If you beef up your princes with the appropriate relics, rewards and ML, you can end up with multiple FMC that are nigh unkillable and beasts in CC as well. In my last game my Tzeentch DP warlord ended up with a rerollable 2++ and then a 4+ FNP.

The formation bonuses are also a lot stronger than I first thought. +1T prevents ID from S10 weapons, the +1S is always useful, and the reroll 1s To Hit means that any witchfires will be hitting on a rerollable 2+ and also helps in CC.

Ideally you can therefore keep them on the ground in most cases and get them into CC asap. The +1/-1 to the Warpstorm from the Detachment benefits is also really useful as it means you don't necessarily have to try and fit Fateweaver into your list as well as 4 expensive DPs

I'm taking the Tetrad to a 1900pt event/practice game on Friday and a 2000pt 3-round event on Saturday: I'll give some feedback on how it goes. So far this year I've been placing in the top 3 positions in the local meta with Daemonkin, and I did pretty well last year with a Nurgle prince flying circus which should be similar style to this list.

So the 2k list is:


Its pretty obvious, but the basic set up of rewards + powers is


I've used a Nurgle flying circus to good effect before and this army can hopefully have even more flexibility and durability.
The bad points tend to be:
- Tau armies with Stormsurges, Riptide Wings or whatever tend to mess this up.
- Scatterbike swarms also are fast enough to get away and deadly enough to take down princes easily.
- MSU Mech armies are a pain in the ass to deal with because your only option is to throw a 400pt Daemon Prince into a 50pt transport. Stuff like Battle Company. On the other hand, against these armies I can generally get a few Summons passed to help deal with that problem.
- Any shooting I can get will be welcome. I'm generally loathe to use Witchfires but being able to pop a transport and charge the contents is a whole turn of tempo I gain.

Trasvi wrote:
I'm taking the Tetrad to a 1900pt event/practice game on Friday and a 2000pt 3-round event on Saturday: I'll give some feedback on how it goes. So far this year I've been placing in the top 3 positions in the local meta with Daemonkin, and I did pretty well last year with a Nurgle prince flying circus which should be similar style to this list.

A few months ago I wrote up this article on The Care and Feeding of Your Tetrad. You might find some helpful stuff in there. I've played them a lot in the past few months, at a number of RTTs and a GT. Here are my suggestions

* Drop the exalted on your Slaaesh prince. It's tempting to have him swoop all game, but don't. He needs to be in there smashing face with the rest of your princes. Soulstealer is a great option for him.
* 2 greaters on each prince at 2k is pretty much manditory. Otherwise your slaanesh prince will either be plucked off or of very limited use all game.
* Your nurgle prince cannot bring the doomsday bell. It's for heralds only
* Why not take the exalted gift on your herald. Also, I don't think they can take Paradox.
* Why are you getting Iridescent Horrors?

* If your taking a CaD, have you considered a bastion + comms relay. If you don't get turn 1, and don't want to be shot off the board, you can reserve your princes and hide in the bastion.
* Your princes should usually be charging by turn 2, or 3 at the latest -- depending on the board setup.
* Your gut feeling about the new powers is correct.

* Stormsurges are a big problem. The balesword can help here. The balesword also kills D-thirsters dead.
* Scatbike armies might or might not be a problem, depending on your rewards and gifts. If all your princes are shrouded and jinking for a 2+, and the scat bikes are -1 BS, you don't have much. Just box them into the corner and they can't get away unless they are turbo'ing to the other side of the board.
* Have the slaanesh prince take the lash of submission against a MSU army.
* If you roll the 3+ harness trait, 4 dice has a good chance of getting summon off.

Heralds can take paradox.. weirdly princes can't.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Trasvi wrote:
I'm taking the Tetrad to a 1900pt event/practice game on Friday and a 2000pt 3-round event on Saturday: I'll give some feedback on how it goes. So far this year I've been placing in the top 3 positions in the local meta with Daemonkin, and I did pretty well last year with a Nurgle prince flying circus which should be similar style to this list.

A few months ago I wrote up this article on The Care and Feeding of Your Tetrad. You might find some helpful stuff in there. I've played them a lot in the past few months, at a number of RTTs and a GT. Here are my suggestions

* Drop the exalted on your Slaaesh prince. It's tempting to have him swoop all game, but don't. He needs to be in there smashing face with the rest of your princes. Soulstealer is a great option for him.
* 2 greaters on each prince at 2k is pretty much manditory. Otherwise your slaanesh prince will either be plucked off or of very limited use all game.
* Your nurgle prince cannot bring the doomsday bell. It's for heralds only
* Why not take the exalted gift on your herald. Also, I don't think they can take Paradox.
* Why are you getting Iridescent Horrors?

Thanks for the response. I liked your article and used it for help when building my list - I'd come to most of the same conclusions too.
I didn't notice that about the bell. THat makes me sad.
My games so far I've found Paradox to be amazing, even better than the Grimoire (without Fateweaver). Guaranteed casts on 5 dice summons is bonkers, and 3 dice Prescience only slightly less so. And so if I take that I can't take another Exalted on the Herald.
Iridescent Horrors are there to slightly offset the chance that I lose a Prince to Warp Storm, and I didn't have much else to do with 10 points.
I'll drop the Bell, that gives me 32points for... Souleater,

* If your taking a CaD, have you considered a bastion + comms relay. If you don't get turn 1, and don't want to be shot off the board, you can reserve your princes and hide in the bastion.
* Your princes should usually be charging by turn 2, or 3 at the latest -- depending on the board setup.
* Your gut feeling about the new powers is correct.

I did consider that but I don't have the model. My other thought is a Void Shield - it could work wonders to protect the princes when I don't get first turn.
Turn 2 charges with at least 1 dude are normal, if not turn 1 if I go second vs an aggressive opponent, but Hammer & Anvil is the bane of this army vs Tau or Eldar. The hounds present a way to be 36+D6" up the table to charge - I don't expect them to do anything except buy me a reprieve from shooting.

* Stormsurges are a big problem. The balesword can help here. The balesword also kills D-thirsters dead.
* Scatbike armies might or might not be a problem, depending on your rewards and gifts. If all your princes are shrouded and jinking for a 2+, and the scat bikes are -1 BS, you don't have much. Just box them into the corner and they can't get away unless they are turbo'ing to the other side of the board.
* Have the slaanesh prince take the lash of submission against a MSU army.

The biggest thing for me this time is the auto +1 toughness for 4 princes. THe times I came up against the Stormsurge with my Nurgle princes I tended to get hit with SD missiles that would insta-kill even if they didn't roll a 6 - but that +1T opens up a world of new opportunities. I'm more worried about the Riptide wing sitting back and shooting 48 Smart Missile shots and/or 72 Heavy Burst Cannon shots, but I'm not really sure there is anything anyone can do against that kind of firepower.
I figured the same thing with bikes and MSU. I think if I get the right survival powers I try to box them in, but if not I can spend a turn or two in the air Shrieking and summoning. Against Battle Company I'm more likely to go for some Witchfires anyway to open up transports as I'm generally not that scared of their shooting power.

Last weekned I played a Tau riptide wing list like you described with 7 riptides and a marker drone commander. Turn one I swooped 3/4 of the princes forward (The Khorne prince assaulted an assassin he infiltrated to close to my army). Since he was skyfiring at my princes, he was unable to hurt them and instead blew up a renegade knight.

On turn two when I went into gliding mode, he double shot at my princes. He managed to kill the slaanesh prince. On turn three I assaulted him, and he was tabled by turn 4.

Part it was the gifts and powers I got 2 instances of Iron Arm, but none of cursed earth. The Balesword tore riptides a new donkey-cave.


When I played a gladius list, I was just destroying 4-5 squads a turn. I got lucky with the 3+ harness power and was able to summon easily with just 4 dice. Over the course of 5 games, I was able to destroy most of his army with shrieks and assaulting every turn starting turn 2.

Here is my honest take on the Tetrad. It is good but it isn't a top-tier army. Why? Because it will have a hard time against some of the other top-tier armies. Here is how I think it will matchup against some of my own tournament armies:

Vs Daemons (Murderhorde, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight): I've got way too many fast scoring units that also corrupts objectives. I've got a D-Thirster but more importantly, I've got a Chaos Knight with potentially 2++ Invuln. My Daemons will have the board control advantage against the Tetrad.

Vs Centstar (Super-centstar): The super Centstar just doesn't give a f*ck. You can't kill them in assault. I've got 3-4 guys with 2++ (Storm shields + Sanctuary), not to mention potential powers such as Invisibility or Veil of Time. I've got multiple force weapons. I don't even care about Gating away, which I could do. My characters will just force weapon DP's to death in CC if they don't get Endurance.

Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).

Vs Wulfen Space Wolves: These guys are mean as f*ck in CC. They hit like a freight train and they will bring down anything that doesn't have at least a 3++ or re-rollable 4++. Honestly, these guys are meaner than Thunderwolf Cavalry because they potentially hit twice as hard. I think that they can out-assault anything that doesn't have Stomp attacks or 2++/3++ Invuln's.

I guess to add to that list, Jy2. More regular daemons list, the screamerstar is a really bad match up for the daemons as it can summon bloodletters (ap 3 is no fun) and grimoire the DP to -1, and (at least in NOVA format) can throw a bunch of flickering fires at them until strength 6 brings them down. Both games I've played against tetrad that's been my strategy.

 jy2 wrote:
Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).

But the DPs can also down one or two tyrant a turn easily.

So if you can (vector) strike first, then it's a one sided game for the demons.
If the tyrant can strike first, then you better pray to get FNP4+ everywhere ^^


Anyway I agree with you however, tetrad is good but not top-tier.
Independently of the ennemy, the randomness of the rewards/powers can screw you over sometimes

 jy2 wrote:
Here is my honest take on the Tetrad. It is good but it isn't a top-tier army. Why? Because it will have a hard time against some of the other top-tier armies. Here is how I think it will matchup against some of my own tournament armies:

Vs Daemons (Murderhorde, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight): I've got way too many fast scoring units that also corrupts objectives. I've got a D-Thirster but more importantly, I've got a Chaos Knight with potentially 2++ Invuln. My Daemons will have the board control advantage against the Tetrad.

Vs Centstar (Super-centstar): The super Centstar just doesn't give a f*ck. You can't kill them in assault. I've got 3-4 guys with 2++ (Storm shields + Sanctuary), not to mention potential powers such as Invisibility or Veil of Time. I've got multiple force weapons. I don't even care about Gating away, which I could do. My characters will just force weapon DP's to death in CC if they don't get Endurance.

Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).

Vs Wulfen Space Wolves: These guys are mean as f*ck in CC. They hit like a freight train and they will bring down anything that doesn't have at least a 3++ or re-rollable 4++. Honestly, these guys are meaner than Thunderwolf Cavalry because they potentially hit twice as hard. I think that they can out-assault anything that doesn't have Stomp attacks or 2++/3++ Invuln's.

Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others. For example The Relic, Tetra don't have to chase down your Murderhorde units but just concentrate in the middle and purely focusing down the Knight and the D-thirster.

Against Centstar they just have to avoid it like dealing with any powerful deathstars, swoop the princes that has warp armor so they don't get blown away by grav. Tz and Nurgle DP can stay on the ground to contest other objectives away from the deathstar.

Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.

Against wulfens again, its staying away from them and picking them apart with lash, shriek, and other psychic powers.

Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.

yes but going at a major tourney and hope to alpha strke first is the fastest way to lose, this in my personal experience. I played a lot flying circus in both major and minor tourney and honestly in large high competitive tourney or you are very skilled and also bit lucky or you will go home quick. Right now i feel better formations, like murderhorde+burning skyhost you care nothing of alpha strikes and you can hold in place deathstars with your MSU list, control the board and score maelstrom easily.

Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others

yes but in formats like ITC any mission have obj (maelstrom) so... i won last tourney against a gladius but cause my opponent made some mistakes, and regardless his mistakes i won only by 1 points, thanks to D thirster obliterated thunderfire cannons (his more costly units which gave me 1 extra point), almost impossible deny him scoring maelstrom points, if he was just bit more aggressive and instead waste time try to shoot down thirster focus his firepower on my troops i surely lost that match.

 blackmage wrote:

Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.

yes but going at a major tourney and hope to alpha strke first is the fastest way to lose, this in my personal experience. I played a lot flying circus in both major and minor tourney and honestly in large high competitive tourney or you are very skilled and also bit lucky or you will go home quick. Right now i feel better formations, like murderhorde+burning skyhost you care nothing of alpha strikes and you can hold in place deathstars with your MSU list, control the board and score maelstrom easily.

Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others

yes but in formats like ITC any mission have obj (maelstrom) so... i won last tourney against a gladius but cause my opponent made some mistakes, and regardless his mistakes i won only by 1 points, thanks to D thirster obliterated thunderfire cannons (his more costly units which gave me 1 extra point), almost impossible deny him scoring maelstrom points, if he was just bit more aggressive and instead waste time try to shoot down thirster focus his firepower on my troops i surely lost that match.

Like I said before thats why its important to have some kind of reserve mod like a Comm relay for Armies with small model counts. For example 2015 BAO winner was a daemon army with only 4 FMC(Fatey, Belakor, Tz DP and a D-thirster), rest of army were horros, cultists and a heldrake, but he brought a bastion with relay which is sooo important.

Nothing in ITC format is unbeatable, the meta right now is very rock paper scissors. Luck plays big roll in a ITC GT, match ups/missions, going 1st/2nd, rolling the right maelstrom per turn, and etc.

Take a tourney winning thunderdome list for example, it has very little shooting. If match against Tetras in ITC scenario 4, and he keep rolling "Destroy enemy unit" maelstrom, the DP just need to stay in the air and throwing shrieks at them at different angles to pick off libbys or black knights. Shrieks don't require roll to hit anymore so its auto hit even if the deathstar is invisible in ITC.

 vercingatorix wrote:
I guess to add to that list, Jy2. More regular daemons list, the screamerstar is a really bad match up for the daemons as it can summon bloodletters (ap 3 is no fun) and grimoire the DP to -1, and (at least in NOVA format) can throw a bunch of flickering fires at them until strength 6 brings them down. Both games I've played against tetrad that's been my strategy.

Yeah, my lists are just a few examples. I'm sure there are more out there that will potentially give the Tetrad some trouble.

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).

But the DPs can also down one or two tyrant a turn easily.

So if you can (vector) strike first, then it's a one sided game for the demons.
If the tyrant can strike first, then you better pray to get FNP4+ everywhere ^^


Anyway I agree with you however, tetrad is good but not top-tier.
Independently of the ennemy, the randomness of the rewards/powers can screw you over sometimes

Not saying Tetrad builds cannot win against lists similar to mine, only that those types of lists are potential pitfall matchups against Tetrad builds. Those are the types of lists that will more often than not give the Tetrad problems. Of course the Tetrad can still win through clever play or good dice, but with 2 equally skilled generals and assuming average dice, I'd say the chances for a Tetrad victory is less than 50%. That is why it isn't a top-tier build. It can't win consistently against most of the better armies.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others. For example The Relic, Tetra don't have to chase down your Murderhorde units but just concentrate in the middle and purely focusing down the Knight and the D-thirster.

Against Centstar they just have to avoid it like dealing with any powerful deathstars, swoop the princes that has warp armor so they don't get blown away by grav. Tz and Nurgle DP can stay on the ground to contest other objectives away from the deathstar.

Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.

Against wulfens again, its staying away from them and picking them apart with lash, shriek, and other psychic powers.

With clever play, the Tetrad can still beat these types of armies. However, all of these lists have elements that make it hard for a Tetrad build to play against. The main offense of the Tetrad is the Daemon Princes. What my armies do is to neuter their main offenses. What happens when my main offense is better at killing your main offense than vice versa? Well, now you have to go to your Plan B or Plan C even. You would have to find secondary ways to win. Mainly, you win by trying to kill my support units. But by relying on mainly assault, you're going to have problems catching my scouts in Land Speeder Storms. You're going to have problems assaulting Flesh Hounds, only to be counter-charged by my Chaos Knight or D-thirster. You're going to have problems going after mawlocs, only to have them burrow back into the ground before you can get to them. You're going to have problems going after 5 man units with 3++ Invuln's, 2W each, FNP and S10 attacks (btw, they are highly resistant to shooting, even Shriek). Basically, your path to victory is severely limited. With most armies, you can win with your Primary offense or with a Secondary plan. Against certain armies (like mine), you've lost our Primary and only have your Secondary plan to try to win. Yes, you can still win but you will be playing at a handicap against these types of armies. You just don't have as many options in terms of strategies as you normally would against other armies.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Like I said before thats why its important to have some kind of reserve mod like a Comm relay for Armies with small model counts. For example 2015 BAO winner was a daemon army with only 4 FMC(Fatey, Belakor, Tz DP and a D-thirster), rest of army were horros, cultists and a heldrake, but he brought a bastion with relay which is sooo important.

Nothing in ITC format is unbeatable, the meta right now is very rock paper scissors. Luck plays big roll in a ITC GT, match ups/missions, going 1st/2nd, rolling the right maelstrom per turn, and etc.

Take a tourney winning thunderdome list for example, it has very little shooting. If match against Tetras in ITC scenario 4, and he keep rolling "Destroy enemy unit" maelstrom, the DP just need to stay in the air and throwing shrieks at them at different angles to pick off libbys or black knights. Shrieks don't require roll to hit anymore so its auto hit even if the deathstar is invisible in ITC.

That is a point of contention, with Shriek being able to hit Invisible units. Unlike Novas, which was FAQ'd to be able to hit Invisible units, Shriek is not. It's been FAQ'd to auto-hit, but anything that does not roll to hit (with the exception of Nova powers) cannot be fired as snapshots, meaning it cannot hit Invisible units unless house-ruled otherwise.

On second thought, since the ITC already ruled that certain attacks (blasts and templates) that don't roll to hit can still hit Invisible units, I can see them ruling in favor of Shriek hitting Invisibile units. But that would be an ITC house-ruled FAQ, not actual RAW.

But the DPs can also down one or two tyrant a turn easily.

So if you can (vector) strike first, then it's a one sided game for the demons.
If the tyrant can strike first, then you better pray to get FNP4+ everywhere ^^

Actually, the Tyranids can potentially rip multiple princes out of the sky at once. One thing to be very, very careful about in Daemon Prince versus Hive Tyrant dogfights is the tyranid psychic power Psychic Scream. With every hive tyrant being a level 2 psyker, the psychic phase isn't as easily dominated as it might be with a lot of games, and with Shadow In The Warp, a Ld-attacking nova power which ignores armour and jink saves can seriously inconvenience you if you let the bugs manifest it - plus it makes any perils results requiring leadership checks that much scarier.

 jy2 wrote:
Vs Daemons (Murderhorde, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight): I've got way too many fast scoring units that also corrupts objectives. I've got a D-Thirster but more importantly, I've got a Chaos Knight with potentially 2++ Invuln. My Daemons will have the board control advantage against the Tetrad.

A 2++ knight is a big problem, but honestly I've found D-Thirsters get beat like a red-headed stepchild by the nurgle prince's balesword. In one game my nurgle prince killed 2 d-thirsters in a row. Fearless dogs from KDK are a big problem.

 jy2 wrote:
Vs Centstar (Super-centstar): The super Centstar just doesn't give a f*ck. You can't kill them in assault. I've got 3-4 guys with 2++ (Storm shields + Sanctuary), not to mention potential powers such as Invisibility or Veil of Time. I've got multiple force weapons. I don't even care about Gating away, which I could do. My characters will just force weapon DP's to death in CC if they don't get Endurance.

Can you guarantee Sanctuary here? Is there a character that is guaranteed to get all the Santic powers (like Be'lakor gets all the Telepathy) I'd be curious to see how this would play out. Yet to find a deathstar that can take all 4 princes at once, including a wolfstar.

 jy2 wrote:
Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).

I've not faced 5 Flyrants yet. Would they take a prince down a turn in assault or shooting? Why does the nurgle prince survive?

 jy2 wrote:
Vs Wulfen Space Wolves: These guys are mean as f*ck in CC. They hit like a freight train and they will bring down anything that doesn't have at least a 3++ or re-rollable 4++. Honestly, these guys are meaner than Thunderwolf Cavalry because they potentially hit twice as hard. I think that they can out-assault anything that doesn't have Stomp attacks or 2++/3++ Invuln's.

I guess I need to see this in action. Looking at the statlines they don't look that gross, with their best feature getting one swing after they are killed. A smart player will be using one of the 2 princes that can double them out to prevent FNP. I would do my best to assault them with the Khorne prince. What makes these guys so gross?

I agree with you that they are not a tier 1 army. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. We are not seeing Tetrad armies win GTs for the reasons described earlier.
Starting with a bastion is a good idea, and I like it. I think it would help handle a lot of alpha striking problems. I don't think it solves the problems of the tetrad overall for GT winning armies, but it does offer some tricks. I'll probably bring one at my next event with the tetrad.

@ Labmouse: GK Capt Stern auto has Sanctuary. So the Centstar they are referring to has Stern, Draigo, Tigirius & the Cents. Draigo has storm shield (2++ with Sanctuary) and is THE anti-Daemon Character. Draigo can easily go through 1 Prince per turn. The Tzeencth Prince (only with 2++) is the only chance to slow him down. And even then, Draigo can just leave combat and take the unit with him (Gate)

Another potential with Stern is to add him to a group of TWC with storm shields. He may slow them down, but that's not an issue against the Tetrad

@labmouse: what's your current take on the Tetrad? And what list are you running? Looking to run one soon enough and gathering intel to cover my many shortcomings

 labmouse42 wrote:
Have you used the formation "Infernal Tetrad"?
Slaanesh Prince[/color]
One of my favorite tricks with the Slaanesh prince is to use the lash of despair, for 2d6 STR 7 attacks. It's a nice 20 point upgrade, that gets better if you rolled ironarm.
I've also used soulstealer and Silvershard on the Slaanesh Prince before. I've acutally gotten more use out of Silvershard as my princes rarely are taking just a wound. Most of the time when they die it's due to D, concentrated fire, or a stomp.

Lash of Despair is my always-to-go weapon even without Iron Arm. 2D6 S6-7 shooting with BS5 (or effectively BS10 in Tetrad) to the rear armor of vehicle is hilarious by itself. Of course it is undoubtedly AWESOME if I succeed in getting Iron Arm.

Though, IMHO, Soulstealer is a relic weapon for KOS rather than a winged DP in my meta. My Slaanesh DP focuses on the lashing and casting psychics in the sky and try not to glide until Turn 3 or later.

 Galef wrote:
@ Labmouse: GK Capt Stern auto has Sanctuary. So the Centstar they are referring to has Stern, Draigo, Tigirius & the Cents. Draigo has storm shield (2++ with Sanctuary) and is THE anti-Daemon Character. Draigo can easily go through 1 Prince per turn. The Tzeencth Prince (only with 2++) is the only chance to slow him down. And even then, Draigo can just leave combat and take the unit with him (Gate)

Thanks. That's pretty cool.


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 Slaaneshian wrote:
Lash of Despair is my always-to-go weapon even without Iron Arm. 2D6 S6-7 shooting with BS5 (or effectively BS10 in Tetrad) to the rear armor of vehicle is hilarious by itself. Of course it is undoubtedly AWESOME if I succeed in getting Iron Arm.

Though, IMHO, Soulstealer is a relic weapon for KOS rather than a winged DP in my meta. My Slaanesh DP focuses on the lashing and casting psychics in the sky and try not to glide until Turn 3 or later.

I wrote that a while ago before I really started playing the tetrad. The latest, updated version can be found here. It's a little over 5000 words long and goes into a lot of detail.
Others have contributed to it as well, through input here, or just writing parts of it. Jy2, for example, has written a number of sections.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
@labmouse: what's your current take on the Tetrad? And what list are you running? Looking to run one soon enough and gathering intel to cover my many shortcomings

See the document mentioned above.

My last run was Tetrad + 2 knights. That was not a good list.
My next try with the Tetrad will be with a bastion and a supporting CAD. The bastion is there to prevent me from auto-losing on turn 1 if I decide to deep strike the princes to avoid an alpha strike. I also own a bastion, and I don't own a VSG.
Honestly though, I'm going putting the Tetrad on hold for a while. I'm going to play with the warphost and tallyband for a month or two to really start to understand them.

last time i played tetrad i added a CAD with both N and Tz heralds and 11 horrors+10 plague bearers, it is not bad, you have some presence on the ground and with 16WC if needed you can summon more units, to grab obj or slow down enemy units.