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Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Mr. S Baldrick, regarding the STAW threads being split into both Misc categories, that's just a temporary error from the moving process - if it's not resolved before then, I'll personally be fixing that when back from AdeptiCon.
   
Made in dk
Hellacious Havoc





Denmark

Thanks for the heads up

Army galleries:
The Word Bearers | Chaos Daemons


All things Chaos: Nordicus's Chaos PLOG
(Updated March 14th '19)



 
   
Made in gb
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 insaniak wrote:
Das_Ubermike wrote:
I don't suppose there's a chance that someone will finally do the sane thing and split up the Painting forums by specific periods like Warseer has done, i.e. Imperium, Xenos, Fantasy, Historical.

Nope, not happening, at least for now.

It may have worked for Warseer, (I don't know, I stopped visiting over there years ago) but splitting P&M has to be done judiciously as it can very, very easily just fragment everything, leaving less popular genres with little to no attention. Having everything lumped in together increases the chances of casual browsers checking different stuff out, rather than just sticking to their one favourite or comfortable genre.


Very true, however...

Having said that, the P&M Blogs section does move very quickly and can be hard to keep up with, so this may be something that we'll want to look into down the track.


This point means that casual browsing is the only kind that really works. You can run through the first couple of pages for stuff that catches your eye, but if you're looking for inspiration for specific games or even, heaven forfend, specific factions from specific games, you better have a good few hours to kill.

You could try maybe setting things up so the link you click on the main page would still be P&M, then once you click-through there would be a small selection of subforums at the top followed by an amalgamated listing of the topics from all those subforums(which would amount to P&M as it is now, for folk who just want to browse the newest topics whatever their subject matter).

The changes already done seem fine, although I take it they're still ongoing. Unless we're expected to believe that 6K+ of the 8K+ threads in the old WHFB forum are about AoS?

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






 Azreal13 wrote:
I think, on the more cosmopolitan sub fora, perhaps a keen encouragement to adopt a [NAMEOFGAME] preface to thread titles will help people scanning for specific games?


That should really be an inbuilt function, a separate field to write the game name just like there are fields for points etc in the Army List forums.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P&M could easily please everyone with a tag function combined with a filter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/30 12:41:34


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Progress is good!

How many interweb pixelations does the "Forum Games" section use up?

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

All of us reading this should try to engage in some sort of tagging for our posts in Misc Games.

   
Made in hk
Nasty Nob






I realise that traffic on the historical gaming sub-forum wasn't heavy, and it was a pretty eclectic mix of different games across different eras. But I question the wisdom of combing Bolt Action with FoW. FoW is big enough to deserve it's own sub-forum. By the same token, it tends to swamp any other WW2 game, and some players have a distinct preference for one game over the other. I also don't particularly want any more of PSC's 'infomercials', which are essentially aimed at the 15mm market (I like PSC's models, but the posts are just advertising).

Just my views, and not necessarily supported, but I'm now considerably less interested in posting in the new sub-forum.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett RIP 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Tailgunner wrote:
I realise that traffic on the historical gaming sub-forum wasn't heavy, and it was a pretty eclectic mix of different games across different eras. But I question the wisdom of combing Bolt Action with FoW. FoW is big enough to deserve it's own sub-forum. By the same token, it tends to swamp any other WW2 game, and some players have a distinct preference for one game over the other. I also don't particularly want any more of PSC's 'infomercials', which are essentially aimed at the 15mm market (I like PSC's models, but the posts are just advertising).

Just my views, and not necessarily supported, but I'm now considerably less interested in posting in the new sub-forum.

Obviously you don't frequent the historical boards then. The Flames of War forum has been pretty dead as of late. I would venture to say that there's been more Bolt Action traffic than Flames of War for some time now.

As for Plastic Soldier Company, they're not exclusively 15mm. They also have 1/72nd (20mm) kits as well as their own 'Battlegroup' game.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






London, UK

with regards to tagging and filtering in P&M, etc. I intend to add tagging to all busy forums with the 'misc' type forums and the P&M forums getting priority. This will work using automated tagging based on keywords in the first post and subject. Tagging your threads with [gamename] in misc will ensure that the filters are visible and active. The P&M area is trickier due to lots of mixed content threads and finding a clean, efficient way to do that automated and programatically is what is causing the major delay on that front, but it can be done and I'm just deciding on the best option as I really want to be able to link to Medge models and blogs from a single remote point

Check out our new, fully plastic tabletop wargame - Maelstrom's Edge, made by Dakka!
 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

I know my P&M Blog is all over the place. While mostly Ultramarines and Eldar, occasionally other things show up. Often in the same post. I also re-name the first post frequently, not sure how tagging would be affected there.

I know some people maintain multiple blogs, but don’t think I generate enough content for that. It’s all just one cluttered mess of a thread.

And I’m not the worst offender for wandering blogs out there.

   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:


That is a terrible counter point. There is no reason to take away any games active subform just because you guys don’t like the level of activity. Yeah sure if something sits for over a year with nothing going on that is one thing, If you guys gave a game a subforum there is no reason to take it away as long as people are being polite an using it.....

There is an argument to be made. The separate subforum didn’t hurt anyone, it didn’t bog down the site and there was regular activity....


I think you've missed a key point here, that point being that a main point of the reorg was to streamline the site for an enhanced user experience. When a game is generating sufficient discussion and interest levels, it gets more space, when it's not, it gets downsized. Why? Because if interest in one game gets too big, it can drown out all other discussion from games which share with it. It also allows for a 'cleaner' browsing experience for those interested in that specific game.

If it's not big enough though? Then you have a forum sitting there which every single user has to scroll past to get to other ones which interest them. You're adding seconds on to the browsing experience of every single Dakka user who has to go past it to get to something lower down the page. When it's something like 'Infinity:-Rules Queries' where there's been two new threads with a combined five posts per month for the last year, it's clearly not worth it. We have a lot of forums already on here, and the more there are, the more inconvenient browsing Dakka gets.

So, one of the primary motivations behind the reorg was to make a more streamlined, efficient browsing process. More forums have been removed than added. A lot of half dead ones have been consolidated (I'm looking at you, Warmachine and Infinity), the most popular newer games (X-Wing and Kings of War) got their own forums. STAW doesn't generate enough discussion on it's own to warrant a separate forum though, even with one or two other low interest games combined. It hasn't been completely folded back into Misc. Games though, as that's been expanded into two forums (with one focusing on sci-fi).

Saying that, 'It weren't hurting nobody guv!' is actually inaccurate. If we used that reasoning, everyone from Gate of Antares down to Ral Partha would have their own forum, and the frontpage would take five minutes to scroll through. Ultimately, the only way Dakka can prioritise these things is by the level of general interest and activity, and STAW? It doesn't have enough. I know that sucks if you like it, because now your virtual penthouse has more games knocking around in it (making it somewhat more difficult for you to find what you want). But ultimately, it's better to cause a minor inconvenience to the smallest handful of users, than it is to cause an infinitesimal inconvenience to every user. Because using the logic you provide, we'll end up having to make the same exception for so many games (for consistency), that that infinitesimal inconvenience to every user will turn into a minor or a major one.

This is merely one factor that needs to be taken into account. When you include the rest, it quickly becomes apparent that STAW (even combined with one or two other negligible games) doesn't deserve it's own forum, but X-Wing does.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/03/30 15:20:46



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think I would have also combined sci-fi other games, and "other games" into one catch-all.

Sadly a lot of our industry's best games still only have enough fans at the moment to justify one thread.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

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Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





USA

 Ketara wrote:

I think you've missed a key point here, that point being that a main point of the reorg was to streamline the site for an enhanced user experience. When a game is generating sufficient discussion and interest levels, it gets more space, when it's not, it gets downsized ...Then you have a forum sitting there which every single user has to scroll past to get to other ones which interest them.


That is the most ridiculous, uneducated, asinine thing I have heard today, and let me tell you I have heard some whoopers today. You have just made the perfect argument for why this reorganization is stupid. If anything you have now made the user experience worse for a whole lot more people. Before the folks could scroll right to the section they want. Now it takes more time to go into these jumble forums sift through crap you have no interest in maybe find one thread you are looking for, scroll threw half a page of Kickstarters that will never take off and you might find another thread. How is that enhancing user experience?




 Ketara wrote:

You're adding seconds on to the browsing experience of every single Dakka user who has to go past it to get to something lower down the page.


That is absolutely not true. STAW and most of the other games that were folded in were way down at the bottom of the page anyway. NOBODY was loosing nano seconds of nerd time scrolling through them. If folks were in that section it is because they were headed that way. The vast majority of users hit the 40K section and stay there. This is an absolute falsehood and if you cling to this form of logic you are delusional. Folding multiple forums together that have nothing to do with each other is not enhancing anyone's browsing experience. If something has been dead for 8 months to a year yeah sure your argument makes sense, but that is not the case for most of the game you are talking about.

Yes separating AoS and WH 9th was obvious to everyone, before you guys put them together, that is a powder keg of emotion there. but the rest of this reorganization is based on nothing more that a small few's personal view on aesthetic not on any basis of fact or science.

It's time to go full Skeletor  
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

@Mr. S Baldrick -

I think your post demonstrates that we have come to the end of any useful exchange. The remainder of this post is therefore for the benefit of other posters following the conversation.

There is simply no compelling argument in favor of maintaining a separate board for Star Trek Attack Wing, a game that a handful of posters infrequently discuss. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that shifting the discussion to the Misc Sci Fi board will meaningfully affect the volume of discussion about this game; it will doubtless remain extremely limited (otherwise, it would certainly be a candidate to have a separate board again). The case of the former WizKids board clearly demonstrates that creating a separate board does not by itself drive discussion. Reorganizing the forum is not being undertaken for its own sake; the goal is to make the forum more useful to the widest possible audience. Maintaining a separate board for each poster's favorite game is not part of the plan. Star Trek Attack Wing had a chance that the overwhelming majority of other miniatures games do not get - and it did not work out.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/03/30 16:26:23


   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





First of all, I would advise you to take a short break and calm down a bit. You sound very angry and seem to be extremely emotionally involved into this, making your posts very biased and starting to sound offensive.

Secondly, the reasons for the splt were given. STAW just isn't a popular game - both in regards to the forums and real life. We know that you are a huge fan of it and love it to the death, but its player base simply isn't very high and thus it isn't justified to give it an own section. Yes, people in the forum were nice and helpful, but it's about quantity, not quality.

Thirdly, splitting AoS and 9th isn't a purely emotional reaction. AoS is the official GW system and 9th is the continuation of WHFB...you could argue that it's not necessary as KoW took large parts of the WHFB playership, but on the other hand, it's a ruleset developed by actual competitive players and some parts of the scene use 9th on tournaments. This, however, doesn't affect the STAW decision. STAW is a small system with little impact, thus doesn't deserve an own forum. It's annoying for you and you might even consider it a personal offense, but from a more objective point of view, it was a logical decision.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/30 16:24:55


   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
 Ketara wrote:

I think you've missed a key point here, that point being that a main point of the reorg was to streamline the site for an enhanced user experience. When a game is generating sufficient discussion and interest levels, it gets more space, when it's not, it gets downsized ...Then you have a forum sitting there which every single user has to scroll past to get to other ones which interest them.


That is the most ridiculous, uneducated, asinine thing I have heard today, and let me tell you I have heard some whoopers today.


Frankly squire, if that's the level of discourse you intend to engage in, I can't say I plan on discussing it any further. We clearly have very different perspectives on a lot of things. I genuinely hope you find the minor forum shift of less earth shattering importance to your enjoyment of your hobby than you anticipate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/30 16:29:15



 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

Well, I was strongly in favor of the STAW board, I'm of the opinion that once all the games are lumped together, they will be lost and posts will be driven down and off the first page swiftly, you'll end up with many posts and few replies. I wonder if a 'sort' function could be given to the 'amalgamous' forums so that they present just the threads on games you're looking for, perhaps with an option when posting to flag your thread as an Attack Wing one, or whatever? To make the sifting of it easier. *edit* I see that's being done, good show Legoburner.

I appreciate that the management allowed us to have a board for a while, I'm sorry that it did not meet quota to stay afloat.

Ultimately, as I was just explaining on another forum, about my other passion, tropical fish (yes, I am that rock n roll), forums, webpages, facebook groups, they're all small, sovereign private island nations and they are all dictatorships, owned and run either by an individual or small group, they can be malevolent or benevolent or anywhere in between, they can listen to your requests or not, banish you or not, the only choices you have are the ability to climb back in your boat and sail onto another island or establish and island of your own.

For the record, I find the nationstate of Dakkadakka to be governed in a very relaxed manner, that it does take pains to listen to it's inhabitants and tries to make accommodation to reasoned requests. But at the end of the day, if it's administration has come to a conclusion and is moving on it, whether I like it or not is weighed against how much I like the rest of the general atmosphere. I've had brief trips to other islands of a similar nature and found them oppressive, cliquish and badly policed, either in zeal or total lack of it.

So, sad to see STAW go, happy that dakka is in reasonable health, glad the administration were willing to give it a go. Thanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/30 16:47:38




 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Florida

Is there a way to easily introduce another screen when selecting forums?

Like another site you can select the painting and modelling subsection and then you are only presented with the forums in that category? So say when you back out of Dakka's Showcase forum you don't have to scroll past all the other forums above it to go into P&M Blogs forum. You would just be presented with the 4 forums of painting and modeling. Am I making sense?

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JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
= Epic First Post.
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

In happier news, MGS - legoburner is on the case as far as tagging/filtering in the Misc sections go.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

 Manchu wrote:
In happier news, MGS - legoburner is on the case as far as tagging/filtering in the Misc sections go.


Yes, I just took Samuel L Jackson's meme advice and read the thread the whole way through... I think that will be useful.



 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Charleston, SC, USA

I'm happy with the historical reorganization. I never liked that one forum was for 15mm and the other for the rest. The pre and post WW1 was a good choice.
   
Made in ca
Ghastly Grave Guard





Canada

Thanks for laying all that out clearly and explaining the whys to us. I must admit, I was afraid I would see the Lord of the Rings/ Hobbit forum get consolidated but I'm glad it didn't even though I don't post in there very often.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Strombones wrote:
The pre and post WW1 was a good choice.
That was actually suggested by posters on the N&B board.
 Lord Corellia wrote:
I must admit, I was afraid I would see the Lord of the Rings/ Hobbit forum get consolidated but I'm glad it didn't even though I don't post in there very often.
Unfortunately, it may yet be consolidated into the Specialist Games forum. The reason we have not done it so far is that GW is reorganizing their approach to Specialist Games generally and there seems to be something coming up for LotR/Hobbit along those lines. Adam Troke is supposed to make an announcement at Throne of Skulls this weekend.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/03/30 16:58:46


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Sounds great. Looking forward to the AoS consolidation so I can get my AoS forum fix in one place.
   
Made in ca
Ghastly Grave Guard





Canada

 Manchu wrote:
Unfortunately, it may yet be consolidated into the Specialist Games forum. The reason we have not done it so far is that GW is reorganizing their approach to Specialist Games generally and there seems to be something coming up for LotR/Hobbit along those lines. Adam Troke is supposed to make an announcement at Throne of Skulls this weekend.


Yeah, that's what I'm sort of holding out hope for as well. I heard a while back that they were hiring a bunch of people for a "middle-Earth division" or some such thing. Hopefully they will re-do the entirety of the profiles (or at least review them) and make adjustments based on the lore, but it is GW so who knows?

Troke is the right person to head the project, outside of getting Alessio back into the fold. I'll be keenly watching the coverage to see what the announcement is. If it's nothing big though, then the game is sadly as good as dead.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

I hadn't refreshed my cache and have to say this made me chuckle..


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





USA

 Ketara wrote:

Frankly squire, if that's the level of discourse you intend to engage in, I can't say I plan on discussing it any further. We clearly have very different perspectives on a lot of things. I genuinely hope you find the minor forum shift of less earth shattering importance to your enjoyment of your hobby than you anticipate.


Sir you know nothing about my profession, education, or credentials. Do not dismiss me like some insolent child just because you do not like that I am disagreeing with you. My language has not been uncivil. If you have become offended by the terms I use, I suggest you consult a dictionary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Manchu wrote:

There is simply no compelling argument in favor of maintaining a separate board for Star Trek Attack Wing, a game that a handful of posters infrequently discuss.


That is an arbitrary decision that you and the others have yet to base in any facts or data other than you personal feelings on site aesthetics.


 Manchu wrote:
otherwise, it would certainly be a candidate to have a separate board again


That is what we did the last time and you guys pulled the rug out from under us, so why would we want to go through that all over again. How is it more productive to keep combining and splitting forums then to just leave things be?



 Sigvatr wrote:
You sound very angry and seem to be extremely emotionally involved into this


I am not an angry person and I am offended by the accusation. However I do not like when arbitrary overlords make decisions and brush people aside when they don't agree with them.



 Sigvatr wrote:

Secondly, the reasons for the splt were given. STAW just isn't a popular game


That is your opinion sir not fact. Money doesn't lie, STAW out sells AoS and Mantic



 Sigvatr wrote:
people in the forum were nice and helpful, but it's about quantity, not quality.



That opinion shifts with sites administration, because before we had a subforum we were told the opposite by several MODs, so where does that leave us?


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/30 17:23:53


It's time to go full Skeletor  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

 legoburner wrote:
with regards to tagging and filtering in P&M, etc. I intend to add tagging to all busy forums with the 'misc' type forums and the P&M forums getting priority. This will work using automated tagging based on keywords in the first post and subject. Tagging your threads with [gamename] in misc will ensure that the filters are visible and active. The P&M area is trickier due to lots of mixed content threads and finding a clean, efficient way to do that automated and programatically is what is causing the major delay on that front, but it can be done and I'm just deciding on the best option as I really want to be able to link to Medge models and blogs from a single remote point

Ah that would be brilliant, and solve many of these issues! Cheers for the heads up
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:


Sir you know nothing about my profession, education, or credentials. Do not dismiss me like some insolent child just because you do not like that I am disagreeing with you. My language has not been uncivil



uncivil:
ʌnˈsɪv(ə)l,-vɪl/Submit
adjective
discourteous; impolite.


That is the most ridiculous, uneducated, asinine thing I have heard today


Strike one.

. This is an absolute falsehood and if you cling to this form of logic you are delusional.


Strike two.

If you have become offended by the terms I use, I suggest you consult a dictionary.


Strike three.

If you do not understand how your language is discourteous, condescending, and generally impolite, I would suggest for the good of your relations with your fellow man (and forum users), you ask a friend to proofread your posts in the future. The above certainly does not make me (or anyone else who you spoke like that to I should imagine) wish to engage with you on any level. Lord only knows that I have enough troubles and stress in life without taking angry posts on forums about toy soldiers too seriously.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/30 17:40:27



 
   
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GENERAL IN THREAD REMINDER/WARNING:

RULE #1 is STAY POLITE.
   
 
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