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So, after an equal opportunity class on next month being LGBT awareness , myself and a co-worker were in a discussion on gay marriage. He made a statement that struck me as odd, and rather bigoted, however he seems to defend the statement as not meaning what I think it meant. I would like opinions on how you would interpret this statement. I will quote it exactly to ensure I am not swaying one way or the other.

Please don't get inflammatory, I am just wondering if I am wrong in interpreting this statement in the way I do. What would it mean to you?


"I do not believe in gay marriage"

How would you interpret that?

"I do not believe gay people should be allowed to get married".

It means they probably don't have to do Jury Duty.

He doesn't believe in Gay Marriage.

He made a statement. His opinion. His perception.

Did he make any other statements besides that?

Either:

I do not believe in happy marriage

or
I do not believe homosexuals should be permitted to marry.
Note: that does not make him bigoted. You have to then find out why he doesn't believe it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ahtman wrote:
It means they probably don't have to do Jury Duty.

unless he lives in North Carolina.

Gay marriage is like Santa Claus.

 Jihadin wrote:
He doesn't believe in Gay Marriage.

Which is somewhat vague and meaningless, and thus why it was asked how people would interpret it.

 Jihadin wrote:
He made a statement. His opinion. His perception.

None of which means it can't be based on nothing more than conjecture or ignorance. Having an opinion is both easy and meaningless.

 Jihadin wrote:
He doesn't believe in Gay Marriage.

He made a statement. His opinion. His perception.

Did he make any other statements besides that?

Yes, after he began explaining that I was misinterpreting his statement looking for hate where there is none. I don't want to say the whole conversation, Im just wondering how you would interpret this statement at face value.

I took it as the above poster, he does not believe gay people should be allowed to be married. He said he doesn't believe they should, but that the statement does not make him a bigot or prejudiced.

I have my own views on any group or person who thinks one person should be allowed to do one thing, and another should not, all things being equal, when basing it on orientation, race, gender etc.

It means exactly what it says, one of the following:

"I do not believe that happy marriage exists".

or

"I do not believe that people of the same gender get married".

Whether you choose to interpret it as someone who is bitter and cynical about marriage or someone who is utterly detached from reality is up to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 redleger wrote:
He said he doesn't believe they should, but that the statement does not make him a bigot or prejudiced.

He can say that all he likes, but it doesn't make it true.

It was in reference to same sex marriage based on the original post.

So would you call BS if he said that it was just his belief that he would never marry another man. Because that is what he was saying that statement meant. I am saying that at face value, that is not even close to what that statement means.

Dunno. On the one hand he could be a total bigot, on the other he could just believe in the "sanctity of marriage" yada yada.

 Peregrine wrote:
"I do not believe that happy marriage exists".

HA

It could just mean he doesn't believe gay marriages counts. or that he doesn't believe in the validity.

or he really doesn't think it exists.

dunno.

Well he could have a very contractual definition that marriage is a contract for inheritence purposes of children, to pass lands and title.

he could have a literal religious objection, that per his religion gays cannot be married, any more than he is permitted to eat pork. He's not bigoted against pork, he just can't eat it.

Now if he say they'z be evilsz and cursed by god well that might be an indicator of personal bias...

 redleger wrote:
So would you call BS if he said that it was just his belief that he would never marry another man. Because that is what he was saying that statement meant. I am saying that at face value, that is not even close to what that statement means.

You are correct. Taken very literally it could mean "I won't marry another man" and nothing else, but we all know that the vast majority of the time when someone says "I don't believe in gay marriage" they intend that belief to apply to other people.

 Frazzled wrote:
Either:

I do not believe in happy marriage

or
I do not believe homosexuals should be permitted to marry.
Note: that does not make him bigoted. You have to then find out why he doesn't believe

I have yet to see a reason why people are against gay marriage that doesn't come down to them being a bigot.

Then I will repeat my post.
"Well he could have a very contractual definition that marriage is a contract for inheritence purposes of children, to pass lands and title.

he could have a literal religious objection, that per his religion gays cannot be married, any more than he is permitted to eat pork. He's not bigoted against pork, he just can't eat it. "

 redleger wrote:
..."I do not believe in gay marriage"...

Devoid of all context, I'd assume he meant gays should not have the right to be married. However, it's also possible he means that he doesn't believe in gay marriage, in that it's not a special institution and merely a normal human right that is irrespective of your sexuality; it's just "marriage".

I'm being a little optimistic there with the latter option.

He also made a statement that he can speak in as general a term as possible, because your interpretation of his statement is you assigning value to his statement. He saw a therapist with his ex wife, and now he thinks anyone take meaning from his very general statements, you are assigning value or emotion where none exists, and therefore he purposely speaks very generally. he likes to poke the bear a lot. I am ok with this, I like poking the bear too, but not in human rights issues.

He did specifically admit though, "marriage" is between man and a women, however a civial union, with all the benefits of marriage is ok between anyone. He just wants "Marriage" to belong to man and woman for the purpose of making children, all the normal religions stuff. So he isn't opposed to gay people.

He also made the statement later, he doesn't believe in being gay. At that point I think he was just trying to rile me up, but I know what that statement would mean to a reasonable person, so hence this thread.

He then made a statement he doesn't believe in mixing races. At which I had to walk away. We are good friends, but he is a habitual line stepper.

at face value, these statements would, in my opinion, be taken as inflammatory, prejudicial, and racist. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't just looking for hate, or if it was within reason to extract that meaning.

 redleger wrote:
He just wants "Marriage" to belong to man and woman for the purpose of making children, all the normal religions stuff. So he isn't opposed to gay people. (snip)

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't just looking for hate, or if it was within reason to extract that meaning.

Sure, he doesn't hate them and isn't opposed to them, as long as they don't get too uppity and accept their places as second-class citizens.

 Ouze wrote:

 redleger wrote:
He just wants "Marriage" to belong to man and woman for the purpose of making children, all the normal religions stuff. So he isn't opposed to gay people. (snip)

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't just looking for hate, or if it was within reason to extract that meaning.

Sure, he doesn't hate them and isn't opposed to them, as long as they don't get too uppity and accept their places as second-class citizens.

That is almost exactly the point I made ironically. He then called me a bigot lol.

EDIT: nevermind. I am not sure why I defending this guy.

I've found bigots often call the people pointing out their bigotry, bigots.

Much like when someone is outstandingly rude, you call them rude, they call you rude for pointing out their rudeness. So bizarre.

Just because he doesnt believe in gay marriage, does not mean that he wouldnt be ok with civil unions or some equivalent.

It does not necessarily mean he is a bigot or being bigoted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess my opinion on the matter is that people automatically assume the worst and jump to the B word when they hear a phrase like that....it is like a knee jerk reaction.

I mean, replace gay marriage with: Aliens, God, Mohammed, Buddha, Bigfoot, etc. and you don't automatically judge someone. But put in anything to do with LGBT andbits instand damnation.

In his personal belief system, homosexuals should not be married.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Just because he doesnt believe in gay marriage, does not mean that he wouldnt be ok with civil unions or some equivalent.

It does not necessarily mean he is a bigot or being bigoted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess my opinion on the matter is that people automatically assume the worst and jump to the B word when they hear a phrase like that....it is like a knee jerk reaction.

I mean, replace gay marriage with: Aliens, God, Mohammed, Buddha, Bigfoot, etc. and you don't automatically judge someone. But put in anything to do with LGBT andbits instand damnation.

Uh, one of these is not like the others. I have physical proof of LGBT. I can even get you on the phone with one. Can you do the same with the others? I think you owe the LGBT a little more respect than that.

I can. I have aliens living across the street. They are from Honduras.

Your move holy man....

You're missing the point (@ jr)

Wait they're not aliens or they are not from Honduras?

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I've found bigots often call the people pointing out their bigotry, bigots.

Bigotry is when someone is intolerant towards an opinion that is different than yours.

So if you call someone a bigot because you perceive that they are intolerant of one of your views, they can also call you a bigot because you are intolerant of their views.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
You're missing the point (@ jr)

You equated a whole people with imaginary characters (religion aside). What point am I missing?