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 notprop wrote:
First we invented well-known Englishman God.

Dr. Who?

And yet Cameron claimed we are a Cristian country..... lol

 Ahtman wrote:

 notprop wrote:
First we invented well-known Englishman God.

Dr. Who?

Ian McCellan

 Ahtman wrote:

 notprop wrote:
First we invented well-known Englishman God.

Dr. Who?

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I found an interesting article in the Guardian reporting on work done by a group that analysed the British social attitudes survey for the last 30 years.

The proportion of the population who identify as having no religion – referred to as “nones” – reached 48.5% in 2014, almost double the figure of 25% in the 2011 census. Those who define themselves as Christian – Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations – made up 43.8% of the population.

“The striking thing is the clear sense of the growth of ‘no religion’ as a proportion of the population,” said Stephen Bullivant, senior lecturer in theology and ethics at St Mary’s Catholic University in Twickenham, who analysed data collected through British Social Attitudes surveys over three decades.

“The main driver is people who were brought up with some religion now saying they have no religion. What we’re seeing is an acceleration in the numbers of people not only not practising their faith on a regular basis, but not even ticking the box. The reason for that is the big question in the sociology of religion.”

No real surprise. It's been long prophesied that Christians would be largely outnumbered and persecuted in the end times. We're just on our way towards that.

There's been a similar trend down here, although I think it's been more of a gradual thing. Somewhere in the last 20-30 years it's flipped from just being assumed that anyone you met was Christian and it being a bit weird if they weren't (when I joined the Army 25 (crikey!) years ago, I had to select one of three denominations on my enrolment paperwork (I went with RC, purely because I had met the priest and he seemed a nice enough bloke) with no option for any other religion or for none.) to it generally being assumed that anyone you meet isn't unless they say otherwise...

My wife is a church-goer, as are a couple of my friends... but by and large people just ignore the whole religion thing unless there's a wedding or a christening to be done, and I strongly suspect that a lot of the people still having church weddings are just doing so for the ambience, rather than through any actual religious leanings.

Relapse wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I found an interesting article in the Guardian reporting on work done by a group that analysed the British social attitudes survey for the last 30 years.

The proportion of the population who identify as having no religion – referred to as “nones” – reached 48.5% in 2014, almost double the figure of 25% in the 2011 census. Those who define themselves as Christian – Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations – made up 43.8% of the population.

“The striking thing is the clear sense of the growth of ‘no religion’ as a proportion of the population,” said Stephen Bullivant, senior lecturer in theology and ethics at St Mary’s Catholic University in Twickenham, who analysed data collected through British Social Attitudes surveys over three decades.

“The main driver is people who were brought up with some religion now saying they have no religion. What we’re seeing is an acceleration in the numbers of people not only not practising their faith on a regular basis, but not even ticking the box. The reason for that is the big question in the sociology of religion.”

No real surprise. It's been long prophesied that Christians would be largely outnumbered and persecuted in the end times. We're just on our way towards that.

Now all you need is for them to start predicting the end of the world a bunch of times like the JWs

 Ustrello wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I found an interesting article in the Guardian reporting on work done by a group that analysed the British social attitudes survey for the last 30 years.

The proportion of the population who identify as having no religion – referred to as “nones” – reached 48.5% in 2014, almost double the figure of 25% in the 2011 census. Those who define themselves as Christian – Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations – made up 43.8% of the population.

“The striking thing is the clear sense of the growth of ‘no religion’ as a proportion of the population,” said Stephen Bullivant, senior lecturer in theology and ethics at St Mary’s Catholic University in Twickenham, who analysed data collected through British Social Attitudes surveys over three decades.

“The main driver is people who were brought up with some religion now saying they have no religion. What we’re seeing is an acceleration in the numbers of people not only not practising their faith on a regular basis, but not even ticking the box. The reason for that is the big question in the sociology of religion.”

No real surprise. It's been long prophesied that Christians would be largely outnumbered and persecuted in the end times. We're just on our way towards that.

Now all you need is for them to start predicting the end of the world a bunch of times like the JWs

One does not simply predict the end times

 Ustrello wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I found an interesting article in the Guardian reporting on work done by a group that analysed the British social attitudes survey for the last 30 years.

The proportion of the population who identify as having no religion – referred to as “nones” – reached 48.5% in 2014, almost double the figure of 25% in the 2011 census. Those who define themselves as Christian – Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations – made up 43.8% of the population.

“The striking thing is the clear sense of the growth of ‘no religion’ as a proportion of the population,” said Stephen Bullivant, senior lecturer in theology and ethics at St Mary’s Catholic University in Twickenham, who analysed data collected through British Social Attitudes surveys over three decades.

“The main driver is people who were brought up with some religion now saying they have no religion. What we’re seeing is an acceleration in the numbers of people not only not practising their faith on a regular basis, but not even ticking the box. The reason for that is the big question in the sociology of religion.”

No real surprise. It's been long prophesied that Christians would be largely outnumbered and persecuted in the end times. We're just on our way towards that.

Now all you need is for them to start predicting the end of the world a bunch of times like the JWs

I tune out anyone who says they know when the world will end since in scripture it says no man will know. There are a lot of things happening, though, that were prophesied, and it's only going to gather steam.

Relapse wrote:
I tune out anyone who says they know when the world will end since in scripture it says no man will know. There are a lot of things happening, though, that were prophesied, and it's only going to gather steam.

There's always parts of prophesy coming true, when you take something as vague as scripture and apply it to something as complex as world politics, you'll always find consistencies.

This is why there always Christians who are certain the end times are just about here... but so far those guys have batted 0 out of 2,000.

I always found it easier to be privately faithful in the supernatural than religious. Something about organized religion really sticks in my craw- maybe it's the judgement by my fellow humans, like it's some sort of contest where they are finding me lacking while they are the "true winners".

It's weird because real-world religion aggravates me so badly that I actually immediately and thoroughly dislike things the moment it is mentioned and can't do anything but roll my eyes at all the preachyness, but I can play extremely faithful characters in RPG's with no problem. Maybe that's telling?

 sebster wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I tune out anyone who says they know when the world will end since in scripture it says no man will know. There are a lot of things happening, though, that were prophesied, and it's only going to gather steam.

There's always parts of prophesy coming true, when you take something as vague as scripture and apply it to something as complex as world politics, you'll always find consistencies.

This is why there always Christians who are certain the end times are just about here... but so far those guys have batted 0 out of 2,000.

Your belief, not mine.

Relapse wrote:
Your belief, not mine.

What's my belief? That the world's end has been predicted by Christian groups pretty consistently for close to 2,000 years? That's not a belief, that's a thing that we know has happened.

Is it a belief that the world hasn't actually ended at any point during those 2,000 years? Nope, not a belief, but a thing that is true.

Is it merely my belief that vague and highly subjective text can be applied to any reasonably complex system? Again, that's not a belief.

My belief, then, is to put all that together and find that, when people keep predicting something and it doesn't happen, then the current predictions are probably about as likely to succeed. Your belief is different, of course, you think this time is different.

And that's fine, nothing wrong with believing this time is different. But don't reduce it down to something a simple as I believe one thing and other people belief something different. Doing that is basically a well worn method for not thinking about things, ever.

 sebster wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Your belief, not mine.

What's my belief? That the world's end has been predicted by Christian groups pretty consistently for close to 2,000 years? That's not a belief, that's a thing that we know has happened.

Is it a belief that the world hasn't actually ended at any point during those 2,000 years? Nope, not a belief, but a thing that is true.

Is it merely my belief that vague and highly subjective text can be applied to any reasonably complex system? Again, that's not a belief.

My belief, then, is to put all that together and find that, when people keep predicting something and it doesn't happen, then the current predictions are probably about as likely to succeed. Your belief is different, of course, you think this time is different.

And that's fine, nothing wrong with believing this time is different. But don't reduce it down to something a simple as I believe one thing and other people belief something different. Doing that is basically a well worn method for not thinking about things, ever.

What you are doing is saying anyone who believes differently from you on this is automatically wrong because they havn't thought about it. That's your mistake because I have thought about it a lot and see a pattern between what has been spoken of in scripture and what is currently happening. The number of earthquakes is increasing each year, for instance:

http://www.livescience.com/46576-more-earthquakes-still-random-process.html

I know that here in the US the decline of Christianity and religion as a whole has been much more gradual... but there are still a few trends going on.

Over the last decade or so, there has been a major see-saw like trend for Christianity, while generally maintaining an overall decline. It began with people ditching formal congregations (Catholic, Baptist, etc.) and opting instead for "non-denominational" services... Much more recently, that has swung back, and people are ditching the non-denoms in favor of organized differentiated denominations.... and all the while, Mormonism, has been gaining in numbers fairly steadily through it all.


@sebster... yeah, Millenial Christianity has been around in an organized fashion largely since the Reformations, but really has been around the whole time. FYI, "Millenial" here is a specific term for any denomination that believes we're in the end times, or near it, coupled with a belief of a literal second coming of jesus.

Relapse wrote:
What you are doing is saying anyone who believes differently from you on this is automatically wrong because they havn't thought about it. That's your mistake because I have thought about it a lot and see a pattern between what has been spoken of in scripture and what is currently happening.

People have said those exact same things every time they've predicted the end times. And yet somehow we're all still here.

Relapse wrote:
What you are doing is saying anyone who believes differently from you on this is automatically wrong because they havn't thought about it. That's your mistake because I have thought about it a lot and see a pattern between what has been spoken of in scripture and what is currently happening.

And he's pointing out that people just like you have been doing so since the bible was written.... and each time has been wrong.

My grandparents read the bible daily, and in the months/year or so before Y2K, were incredibly adamant that the calendar kicking over to a new millennium would signal the end times.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What you are doing is saying anyone who believes differently from you on this is automatically wrong because they havn't thought about it. That's your mistake because I have thought about it a lot and see a pattern between what has been spoken of in scripture and what is currently happening.

And he's pointing out that people just like you have been doing so since the bible was written.... and each time has been wrong.

My grandparents read the bible daily, and in the months/year or so before Y2K, were incredibly adamant that the calendar kicking over to a new millennium would signal the end times.

When did I predict the world was going to a crashing end on any particular date?

Relapse wrote:
When did I predict the world was going to a crashing end on any particular date?

You didn't. But people have been saying the same "soon" things that you're saying, and the world is still here.

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
When did I predict the world was going to a crashing end on any particular date?

You didn't. But people have been saying the same "soon" things that you're saying, and the world is still here.

What do you think I mean when I say we are approaching the end times? Next week, a month or a year from now? That's not what I mean. It could be a few generations down the road for all I know, but I see a enough going on that, to me, relates to Biblical Prophecy of those days.

Relapse wrote:
What you are doing is saying anyone who believes differently from you on this is automatically wrong because they havn't thought about it.

No, that is not what I'm saying. It is fine to have any belief on the issue - how can anyone possibly be certain to be right or wrong on the supernatural? What is not fine is to announce a belief, and then defend it purely on the grounds that different people believe different things, which is exactly what you did with your 'that's you belief...' comment.

The greater effort you make in your post, on increasing earthquakes, that's the start of trying to form a real basis for your views. And that's cool.

And look, I'm not even saying you have to defend your views on here (although you were the guy who raised this issue). But just don't use 'that's your belief...' thing - that's how non-thinking happens.

This is one of the most depressing things I've seen in a long time.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
@sebster... yeah, Millenial Christianity has been around in an organized fashion largely since the Reformations, but really has been around the whole time. FYI, "Millenial" here is a specific term for any denomination that believes we're in the end times, or near it, coupled with a belief of a literal second coming of jesus.

Yeah, they're called millenials because the end times stuff really spiked around the year 1000, but they'd been around long before then, and have been around ever since. It's kind of natural, really, many people think of themselves living at a decisive point in history, it'd be similarly natural to believe that the apocalypse predicted by your religion is going to happen sooner rather than later.

 sebster wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What you are doing is saying anyone who believes differently from you on this is automatically wrong because they havn't thought about it.

No, that is not what I'm saying. It is fine to have any belief on the issue - how can anyone possibly be certain to be right or wrong on the supernatural? What is not fine is to announce a belief, and then defend it purely on the grounds that different people believe different things, which is exactly what you did with your 'that's you belief...' comment.

The greater effort you make in your post, on increasing earthquakes, that's the start of trying to form a real basis for your views. And that's cool.

And look, I'm not even saying you have to defend your views on here (although you were the guy who raised this issue). But just don't use 'that's your belief...' thing - that's how non-thinking happens.

I'm sure you've heard it all before, Earthquakes in diverse places, prophecies having to do with Israel, storms, the general breaking down of humanity, etc. so I won't go into detail on those, but they do shape my thoughts on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sebster wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
@sebster... yeah, Millenial Christianity has been around in an organized fashion largely since the Reformations, but really has been around the whole time. FYI, "Millenial" here is a specific term for any denomination that believes we're in the end times, or near it, coupled with a belief of a literal second coming of jesus.

Yeah, they're called millenials because the end times stuff really spiked around the year 1000, but they'd been around long before then, and have been around ever since. It's kind of natural, really, many people think of themselves living at a decisive point in history, it'd be similarly natural to believe that the apocalypse predicted by your religion is going to happen sooner rather than later.

How many times in history has humanity been sitting on enough weapons of various types to end all existence on the planet?

Relapse wrote:
What do you think I mean when I say we are approaching the end times? Next week, a month or a year from now? That's not what I mean. It could be a few generations down the road for all I know, but I see a enough going on that, to me, relates to Biblical Prophecy of those days.

I don't know what you mean, though at some point the length of time gets so long that "the end times are approaching" ceases to have any real meaning. But whether it's next week or a few generations from now people have been saying the same things for as long as there has been a bible to quote from, and yet nothing happens.

Relapse wrote:
It could be a few generations down the road for all I know, but I see a enough going on that, to me, relates to Biblical Prophecy of those days.

Events have been relating to biblical prophecy since long before the bible was written and they will still be occurring long after the bible is forgotten.

"There will be wars and rumours of wars..." Surely not!

Good. What is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, no matter the age of the claim. I am not surprised to see this opinion growing.

Relapse wrote:

 sebster wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What you are doing is saying anyone who believes differently from you on this is automatically wrong because they havn't thought about it.

No, that is not what I'm saying. It is fine to have any belief on the issue - how can anyone possibly be certain to be right or wrong on the supernatural? What is not fine is to announce a belief, and then defend it purely on the grounds that different people believe different things, which is exactly what you did with your 'that's you belief...' comment.

The greater effort you make in your post, on increasing earthquakes, that's the start of trying to form a real basis for your views. And that's cool.

And look, I'm not even saying you have to defend your views on here (although you were the guy who raised this issue). But just don't use 'that's your belief...' thing - that's how non-thinking happens.

I'm sure you've heard it all before, Earthquakes in diverse places, prophecies having to do with Israel, storms, the general breaking down of humanity, etc. so I won't go into detail on those, but they do shape my thoughts on this.

Coming from someone that had a very casual Christain background, no I do not. You could share these prophecies with us.

Relapse wrote:

 sebster wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
@sebster... yeah, Millenial Christianity has been around in an organized fashion largely since the Reformations, but really has been around the whole time. FYI, "Millenial" here is a specific term for any denomination that believes we're in the end times, or near it, coupled with a belief of a literal second coming of jesus.

Yeah, they're called millenials because the end times stuff really spiked around the year 1000, but they'd been around long before then, and have been around ever since. It's kind of natural, really, many people think of themselves living at a decisive point in history, it'd be similarly natural to believe that the apocalypse predicted by your religion is going to happen sooner rather than later.

How many times in history has humanity been sitting on enough weapons of various types to end all existence on the planet?

I am going to jump in on this with the answer: "never, not even now". The current worldwide nuclear arsenal is estimated to be at around 15,375 which includes weapons such as bombs and nuclear weapons without a reliable deployment method. In the United States alone there are 19,354 incorporated places (a town or city as defined by the United States Census bureau), along with a large number of people that live outside these areas. Assuming that a nuclear weapon can completely destroy two incorporated places, It would still take half of the world's nuclear arsenal to wipe out the towns of the United States before having to move on to target rural communities. Many areas that are still developing or are still agrarian have dispersed populations, making them even more difficult to target.

Relapse wrote:
I'm sure you've heard it all before, Earthquakes in diverse places, prophecies having to do with Israel, storms, the general breaking down of humanity, etc. so I won't go into detail on those, but they do shape my thoughts on this.

Earthquakes is an interesting one, I'll spot you that. Israel is a bit weak, though, because periods of time in which Israel has been peaceful have been pretty scarce - just going back 60 years to the foundation of modern Israel, there's been about a half dozen actual wars involving Israel. The general breaking down of humanity is a bit of a funny one - if measured on declining numbers of Christians it's right, but if you measure generally gakky behaviour - murders, assaults, property theft and so on then we're nicer than we've ever been.

How many times in history has humanity been sitting on enough weapons of various types to end all existence on the planet?

Is God going to end the planet, or man?

So Relapse believes in prophesies in a book that s/he states the world will end but no man will predict. Relapse also predicts the world is on its last legs. So has given the issue deep thought but not seen the obvious contradiction there.

The whole fire and brimstone bit is not something we see in the UK from religious leaders or indeed their followers as its all just a bit risible really, especially compared to the real hells that exist in the world. Conversely It always seems peculiar that the USA has so much doom and fear mongering despite being beyond secure and wealthy.

You can see why the educated/informed peoples of Western Nations turn away from religion it just seems a bit silly given the realities of the world.