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I was just curious what your views are on running the Phantom: how it should be used, and also how it measures up to something like the Interceptor. With the big attack, and access to sensor and crew upgrades, it's a ship I really want to like, but in my games I've noticed a lot of drawbacks... expensive, fragile, struggles with stress, no native Boost action, relatively low PS pilots, and despite all the cool upgrade options, I often feel a bit penned-in by having to cover the Phantom's weaknesses. For example, I'd love to have Engine Upgrade on Echo, but it means loosing access to things like Advanced Cloaking and other defensive mods, which are sorely needed. Fire Control System seems like the only worthwhile sensor upgrade since the errata, and viable crew options are quite limited: even with crew that work well, like Mara Jade or Weapons Engineer, I don't feel like you get as much value out of them as you would on a larger ship. So it's often just a throw away point on Intelligence Agent.

What would you say is the best way to load and fly a Phantom... Should it be in at R1 with Outmanoeuvre, or sniping from R3 with Merc CoPilot and Marksmanship, or perhaps somewhere in between with Tactician?

Veteran instincts and advanced cloak at all times, crew to suit your preferences. Mara Jade or rebel captive are good if you want stress control, while Agent Kallus is powerful dice modification as long as your metagame is full of lists that rely on a small number of expensive aces. FCS vs. sensor jammer is also a preference thing. FCS gives you more firepower, especially if you don't have Kallus to help, while sensor jammer keeps you alive longer.

 Peregrine wrote:
Veteran instincts and advanced cloak at all times

I'm inclined to agree with this, they seem to be the most logical choices for plugging the defence and PS weaknesses. Though I wonder if it might be more effective to play to the ship's strengths somehow, rather than its weaknesses? I had overlooked Agent Kallus, he's actually a really interesting choice. I'm a bit dubious about Sensor Jammer as it can be defeated by focusing, and I'm not convinced Rebel Captive is much of a deterrent when it comes to shooting at a juicy Phantom. I think Mara Jade is a solid choice, I don't think I ever regret taking her.

In fact, I just played a benchmark game with her to try out a more dog-fighty build. I went with Echo: Engine Upgrade, FCS, Mara Jade, and Stay on Target. I pitched her against three t70s to give the Ai a more reasonable chance (including Poe with R2-D2). Link to replay

I didn't activate Stay on Target much, but I can see it actually being immensely useful. Mara Jade is just amazingly useful, she was key in taking out the first t70, and on turn 5 she allows me to finish off the second t70 that I had Target Locked without having to worry about Poe turning to face me. I think a real opponent probably would have tried to speed away with Poe at the end, rather than continue to get bumped and stressed, but it was probably my game at that point. I'd quite like to try that build in some games and test it more, though it might be a more of a struggle against turrets...

 Smacks wrote:
I had overlooked Agent Kallus, he's actually a really interesting choice.

Kallus is especially good against two and three-ship lists.

I'm a bit dubious about Sensor Jammer as it can be defeated by focusing

Indeed, but it forces a choice that the attacker might not want to make (or can't make).

I'm not convinced Rebel Captive is much of a deterrent when it comes to shooting at a juicy Phantom.

It can be. A ship that is stressed every turn, such as Fel or The Inquisitor, will most likely not want to take another stress because they will be extremely vulnerable next turn. Shooting at an actionless Fel is a dream come true.

I think Mara Jade is a solid choice, I don't think I ever regret taking her.

Yeah, she's alright but I think there are better choices available.

It would also depend on what the rest of your list looks like, and your local meta. Stress on a phantom is pretty much a big "kill me now" sign.

i've used triple phantom lists to mixed results. But like all of the above posts VI and ACD are a must and i usually go with Recon specs as my crew. the double focus has been useful in the past.

my triple phantom list is this:

Echo (38)
Advanced Cloaking Device.
Vet Instincts
Recon Specs

Sigma Squad Pilot (32)
Advanced Cloaking Device.
Recon Specs

Sigma Squad Pilot (32)
Advanced Cloaking Device.
Intel Agent

they're a barrel of fun and can be a bit of mind f**k to your opponent, ie is he going to decloak or not and if so where. the one suggestion that i would suggest is get used to the decloak options and have a bit of an idea where you're going to end up at the end of movement.

Indeed, but it forces a choice that the attacker might not want to make (or can't make).

Plus it's especially useful where an attacker won't have a focus token available. Twin Laser Turrets (which usually fire at least one shot unmodified) and Torpedoes (which have usually spent their action-token on firing in the first place) are both very susceptible to jammers.

Plus, it interacts very well with the Rebel Captive - throwing stress out there means potential lost actions...which means attackers with no focus token.....which increases the value of the sensor jammer.

Juke and sensor jammer is also a good combination in theory - because of the unpleasant choices with focus that it forces on the guy on the receiving end - but that means you lose Veteran Instincts, which causes serious issues with a Phantom's effectiveness. There are ways to make up for this (Vader with Decoy* springs to mind) but it's a Band-Aid at best.

I would, as a rule, say that a TIE phantom wants to fight at medium-to-close range. Being at range 3 means 5 agility whilst cloaked - but also means it's a lot easier for multiple ships to draw a bead on you. Plus, secondary weapons will ignore the bonus die. Certainly, the advantage a phantom gains from being at range 3 is nowhere near the edge an autothruster-equipped interceptor or starviper gains.

By comparison, the closer you are, the more angular deflection you get out of your decloak move, and therefore the harder it is for your opponent to put arcs of fire or blocking ships to cover every potential location....which means it becomes tempting to just cover the 'bad' ones and hope.

Also, range 1 (if you can get it) means lovely 5 dice primary attacks that can easily one-shot cheap ships like Z-95s and TIE fighters.

Also also, whisper is the easy choice - precisely because the high pilot skill drives advanced cloak and advanced cloak is amazing. But if you're in close, echo is an absolute nightmare to try and pin down. He really shouldn't need an engine upgrade with the flexibility of his decloak move.


I would generally default to Whisper/Veteran Instincts/Agent Kallus/Sensor Jammer/Advanced Cloaking Device; you've got good action economy, the best PS a phantom can manage without dirty tricks (see below) and the advanced cloak pairs perfectly with Whisper's ability.

Echo/Juke/Kallus/Sensor Jammer/Stygium Particle Accelerator works well but struggles because of pilot skill - it turns the phantom into almost a one-use assassin. Good in theory but a TIE phantom feels too expensive to be expendable.

The one other version I've seen do well is Sigma Squadron Pilot/Intelligence Agent/Enhanced Scopes/Stygium Particle Accelerator. It's expensive (although cheap for a Phantom) but makes for one hell of a blocker. The trick is having things in your squad able to take advantage of it.

I definitely wouldn't touch Marksmanship on a Phantom. Marksmanship is - by and large - no better than a focus token. The only time I'd say it's better is if (a) you have multiple attacks per turn so it triggers multiple times, or (b) you have an ability which specifically triggers off the fact that it's generating a critical hit.


* Yes, I know swarm tactics wouldn't drop Vader's pilot skill. But Decoy means you're on the end of a Range 1-2 leash, not trying to fly in a range 1 'box' with a not-especially-manoeuvrable TIE advanced.

Besides which; Vader needs his Pilot Skill in the activation phase - the phantom needs it in the combat phase.

locarno24 wrote:
Plus, it interacts very well with the Rebel Captive - throwing stress out there means potential lost actions...which means attackers with no focus token.....which increases the value of the sensor jammer.

Yeah, but how much stress can a Phantom realistically dish out that way before it's dead? If you're getting shot that many times in a row, then you're probably boned anyway.

 Smacks wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
Plus, it interacts very well with the Rebel Captive - throwing stress out there means potential lost actions...which means attackers with no focus token.....which increases the value of the sensor jammer.

Yeah, but how much stress can a Phantom realistically dish out that way before it's dead? If you're getting shot that many times in a row, then you're probably boned anyway.

Enough to be a hindrance to aces. The main goal isn't to deal stress like Tactician or the Stressbot but instead to have the potential to deal stress and influence your opponent's target priorities.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Enough to be a hindrance to aces. The main goal isn't to deal stress like Tactician or the Stressbot but instead to have the potential to deal stress and influence your opponent's target priorities.

That makes sense, but that isn't what locarno24 was talking about.

I can certainly see how it might deflect some of those opportunistic R3 "shots to nothing". I probably wouldn't want to take a 2nd stress token just to ping a cloaked phantom that's rolling 5 defence dice, but the phantom probably isn't too worried about that regardless. On the other hand, If I had a good shot lined up with someone like Soontir Fel then I'd probably take the shot. It's a more expensive ship after all.

I don't think Rebel Captive is useless, I just don't think it's that great. Ideally, the phantom wants to stay out of arcs. Rebel Captive doesn't help you to do that, and when you are doing that, RC just feels like dead weight.

If you're not being shot, it is, and I agree - not being shot in the first place is your first defence.

But if you're talking about (for example) Dash Rendar in the outrider, you've got a pretty good chance that he's the only one with a shot. But if already stressed from Push The Limit, that's double stress.....

It's more a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation you're trying to create. Dash's main advantage is his manoeuvrability - boost, barrel roll, the ability to land on obstacles then action-move off them. Take that away and he's not actually that tough - and if there's two other ships in a position to pounce on him......and one heavy laser shot should hit but probably won't kill whisper.....are you sure you wouldn't prefer to shoot at one of whisper's escorts instead?

Stress + Sensor Jammer won't be an important combination too much, but the risk of it, again, makes it a bugger to deal with. It's the same reason I've seen a 'Royal Guard' list that worked quite well using Carnor Jax and a sensor jammer equipped shuttle with Palpatine. Without the ability to spend focus tokens, and Palpatine occasionally ju-ju-ing the green dice, it's amazing how much fire the shuttle can soak up.

 Smacks wrote:
I can certainly see how it might deflect some of those opportunistic R3 "shots to nothing". I probably wouldn't want to take a 2nd stress token just to ping a cloaked phantom that's rolling 5 defence dice, but the phantom probably isn't too worried about that regardless. On the other hand, If I had a good shot lined up with someone like Soontir Fel then I'd probably take the shot. It's a more expensive ship after all.

That would be risky for Fel. If the Phantom is cloaked (and it should be against Fel), the combination of tokens and four dice against Fel's three attack favors the Phantom. If you add in the extra stress, even more so. A lot of players aren't going to take that shot and risk leaving their best ship completely exposed for the next turn unless they have no other choice.

I don't think Rebel Captive is useless, I just don't think it's that great. Ideally, the phantom wants to stay out of arcs. Rebel Captive doesn't help you to do that, and when you are doing that, RC just feels like dead weight.

It is that great. I've flown Rebel Captive Whisper for pretty much as long as it's been a "thing" and it's pretty fething good (I flew Morgan Reid's Whisper + mini-swarm for a long time before I started switching out the mini-swarm for other stuff). There have been more than enough times where my opponent has decided to make a less advantageous attack rather than risk double stressing himself on attack that probably won't cause any damage to make it worth three points I spent to put in on my ship.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
If the Phantom is cloaked (and it should be against Fel) ... four dice against Fel's three

I did say a "good shot" lined up. R2 against cloaked isn't what I had in mind. If the nastiest shots on phantoms all looked like that, then defence upgrades like Rebel Captive would be moot anyway. The problem is those other shots when you're decloaked.

I don't see why the phantom "should" be cloaked against Fel. With PS9/Initiative Soontir Fel will get his shot before the phantom can shoot and recloak, and while I'd be happy to take an R2 shot against a decloaked phantom, if there is anyone you can count on to be at R1, it's Soontir Fel. That's the kind of shot that's really going to wreck your phantom, and it's the kind of shot Rebel Captive isn't going to deter.

locarno24 wrote:echo is an absolute nightmare to try and pin down. He really shouldn't need an engine upgrade with the flexibility of his decloak move.

The advantage of Engine Upgrade is that (along with barrel roll) it lets you steer and reposition your ship after you've seen where other ships have moved, which is obviously really useful. Echo has to decloak before everyone moves, so she doesn't have that extra information. If ships start moving and it turns out she's going to be badly positioned, it's too late, she's locked in. I definitely miss the kind of fine adjustment that you get with pilots like Fel and Vader, to get that perfect R1 Outmanoeuvre shot. The decloak move is cool in its own way, but it isn't really the same thing.

f you're unfamiliar enough with Phantoms that you have to start a thread about how to use them, why are you arguing that one of the best crew cards for them isn't that good? Fel typically doesn't want initiative because he wants to move last to maximize his repositioning and Whisper wants initiative to make the most from ACD. Most of the time there aren't that many other shots against Whisper because low ship lists are still the most common lists these days.

All I can tell you is that it's a top-tier card for Phantoms, especially Whisper, and that's the reason it's features heavily in a competitive setting.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
If you're unfamiliar enough with Phantoms that you have to start a thread about how to use them, why are you arguing that one of the best crew cards for them isn't that good?

I started the thread because I like discussing X-wing, and I wanted to have a nice discussion about Phantoms. Phantoms and Interceptors are probably my favourite ships. And I'm not "arguing" anything... I have already acknowledged that what you are saying makes sense, and that I can appreciate how it deters certain types of attack. I'm just trying to explain why I don't really like it, and think other crew cards are better. I don't want to fall out over it.

 Smacks wrote:
I'm just trying to explain why I don't really like it.

Okay, but you need to understand that because you don't like, that doesn't make it not good. There really isn't that many decent crew options for the Phantom that are affordable point-wise. Rebel Captive has seen a pretty consistent tournament showing for some time now, because it's a really good card that can go on ships that can benefit from deterring opponents from shooting them. Against a two ship list, it will stress 50% of your opponents list just for being that target of an attack. Another plus is that it's unavoidable and doesn't fall under "missed opportunities." What it isn't good against is swarms, but the beauty of that is swarms are a Phantom's natural prey so it already has a leg up.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Smacks wrote:
I'm just trying to explain why I don't really like it.

Okay, but you need to understand that because you don't like, that doesn't make it not good.

I run Echo with ACD, FCS, PTL, and Recon.

When I started my area was in the High PS meta. It has since gone more towards low PS high HP/regen, and U-boats. The VI is less of a requirement, and being able to shoot before most U-boats, cloak, then Barrel Roll out of Torpedo arcs is fun. The Green maneuver requirement later has not been to much of a detriment for me. I use a lot of arc dodgers, but if you angle it right they can barrel roll into range 3 after attacking. I am looking to try the Echo with a Decimator soon.

I will say that I have only won 3 out of 30 games, but the margin of defeat is getting smaller, and the comments from my veteran opponents has been along the " that was harder than I thought it would be" variety. And one of the losses was buy 1 hull point, and my opponent having REALLY hot defense dice for his last two defense rolls. I had 2 ships vs 3, he had scum fett and 2 others that I don't remember, I had empire fett and echo. I killed his fett,; one of his side ships; and stripped him to one hull, for the loss of most of fetts hull and echo. We both had 1 hull left, I attacked, and got 3 hits on 4 red, he rolled 3 dodge out of 3 defense, then I used my gunner, and hit 3 more times, and he rolled 3 dodge again, then his 2 attack dice got a single hit, and I failed to dodge. At least it was a fun match, and real close.

 Smacks wrote:
I appreciate that "probably" doesn't mean "certainly", and there is some merit in trying to ward off those attacks, rather than risking fluky damage, but you have to see there is a certain amount of redundancy as well.

But X-Wing is a game of redundancy. You don't take one defensive action on Soontir Fel and say "that's probably enough", you put up enough defense that it becomes "almost certainly enough". Same thing with Whisper. You have an expensive ace, you make sure that all of those "probably not" attacks that accumulate over the course of the game don't turn into "finally did".

If your opponent thinks they "probably" will do a lot of damage, then they probably won't care if you have rebel captive or not.

Except they really will care. Trading Soontir Fel for 2 HP on Whisper is not a winning trade, and it's rare that you'll be in a position to effectively guarantee a one-shot kill. Rebel captive forces you to either take multiple stress tokens and a high risk of immediately losing your ace, or stop using PTL and try to keep that expensive ace alive and effective without any action economy.

If you're just talking about VI Whisper, specifically, then it's a bit better, as cards like Recon Specialist and Intelligence Agent are wasted on him.

Well yeah, we're talking about VI Whisper, because that's the only phantom that is really viable. VI Echo might be depending on your meta, but even there the same arguments for rebel captive are still true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I run Echo with ACD, FCS, PTL, and Recon.

When I started my area was in the High PS meta. It has since gone more towards low PS high HP/regen, and U-boats. The VI is less of a requirement, and being able to shoot before most U-boats, cloak, then Barrel Roll out of Torpedo arcs is fun. The Green maneuver requirement later has not been to much of a detriment for me. I use a lot of arc dodgers, but if you angle it right they can barrel roll into range 3 after attacking.

The problem with this approach is that you just auto-lose in a more typical meta. Palpaces will effortlessly beat PS 6 Echo, and that's a very popular list right now. The kind of "no PS over 6" meta where PS 6 Echo is viable is just not going to be a thing most people are lucky enough to have.

I played Echo last night, with VI. I didn't know if a 2 points initiative bid was a good thing of not, so I tried her/him/it with Intelligence Agent instead of one of the more popular/efficient choices.

I paired Echo with the Inquisitor and OL, in their most common loadouts. Having my three ships at PS8 was relaxing from a planning point of view.

I can't use last night as an indicator of anything, though, because my opponent's dice SUCKED. He inflicted a total of 2 damage, throughout the game. And we use the same dice from a common pool, so he was really just unlucky.

Has the tournament scene remained with the PS9-11 bracket being dominant? I know Palpaces uses such pilots, but what about the other lists?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Has the tournament scene remained with the PS9-11 bracket being dominant? I know Palpaces uses such pilots, but what about the other lists?

What other lists? Right now it's pretty much Palpaces and u-boats.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I played Echo last night, with VI. I didn't know if a 2 points initiative bid was a good thing of not, so I tried her/him/it with Intelligence Agent instead of one of the more popular/efficient choices.

I paired Echo with the Inquisitor and OL, in their most common loadouts. Having my three ships at PS8 was relaxing from a planning point of view.

I can't use last night as an indicator of anything, though, because my opponent's dice SUCKED. He inflicted a total of 2 damage, throughout the game. And we use the same dice from a common pool, so he was really just unlucky.

Has the tournament scene remained with the PS9-11 bracket being dominant? I know Palpaces uses such pilots, but what about the other lists?

A really useful image from Stay On The Leader detailing the changes to PS between Store Championships and Regionals

 Peregrine wrote:

 Smacks wrote:
I appreciate that "probably" doesn't mean "certainly", and there is some merit in trying to ward off those attacks, rather than risking fluky damage, but you have to see there is a certain amount of redundancy as well.

But X-Wing is a game of redundancy. You don't take one defensive action on Soontir Fel and say "that's probably enough", you put up enough defense that it becomes "almost certainly enough".

By redundancy, I mean you wouldn't put Twin Ion Engines MKII on Soontir Fel (or you might, but you wouldn't say it's the best choice), even though shedding stress is important on a PTL interceptor, he doesn't need it as much as other things.

Except they really will care. Trading Soontir Fel for 2 HP on Whisper is not a winning trade, and it's rare that you'll be in a position to effectively guarantee a one-shot kill. Rebel captive forces you to either take multiple stress tokens and a high risk of immediately losing your ace, or stop using PTL and try to keep that expensive ace alive and effective without any action economy.

Your entire argument is based on this hypothetical situation where the Phantom is at full HP, the attacking ship is Soontir Fel, and he's in imminent danger of destruction. What about all the times the shooter isn't Soontir Fel? What if it's Tycho Celchu with VI and Prockets? Or a U-boat with Zuckuss? Or any ship shooting 2nd. Even when you are against Fel, there is a good chance he'll be with someone like Vader, or Rear Admiral Chiraneau, who can just absorb the stress token for him. Not to mention Palpetine, who can just give Fel 4 evades next turn if need be. The assumption that you would always (or even frequently) be "trading" Fel is false. Getting a stress token might be bad, but you're trying to conflate it with the guaranteed destruction of his ship, which is quite a leap.

Well yeah, we're talking about VI Whisper, because that's the only phantom that is really viable. VI Echo might be depending on your meta, but even there the same arguments for rebel captive are still true.

I don't disagree with the arguments for it. I agree 100% that is has some usefulness and is "one of" the better cards for the Phantom. You don't need to keep explaining how it works. I agree 100% that it can be annoying for certain aces in certain situations (and other phantoms). What I don't agree with is that the benefits are enough to make it a better upgrade than something like Tactician (which is cheaper), or Mara Jade, which is brutal against so many ships that aren't Soontir Fel. Or even Weapons Engineer, which is surprisingly good, as it means you can already have a free taget lock on a ship without having to wait for FCS to kick in. With the Phantom's firepower and the rate it switches targets, that makes a huge difference on those first shots.

Also I think it's a little insular to say that Echo and Sigma are un-viable. Even if you are right and they aren't the most competitive ships on paper right now. How you fly them counts for something, and they might be a good fit for someone's list, or play-style. Echo is a completely different animal to Whisper, it's like Juno and Vader. Not having the highest PS isn't always an auto loss, with good piloting, and things like stress control or Intelligence agent you can still find good angles while moving first, and you can still take other ships with high PS to counter aces.

All of your hypotheticals don't matter because there is no card that can be perfect for every situation. However, Rebel Captive is good on a Phantom because of what it does defend against. The chances are that Whisper is going to be your opponents' primary target because she's dangerous, expensive, and no decent player is going to give you free reign to flank his ships with her. In an ace-heavy meta, your opponent's best ace is probably going to pull Phantom hunting duty. Forcing that ship to take unavoidable stress is awesome, even if you're cloaked or have no shot. Fel really wants to avoid double stress and if he does, that means no PtL which kills most of what him great. Poe or Wedge have few green moves so limiting them is fantastic. The same goes with Vader, who's green moves also suck. The Inquisitor is probably going to be stressed as well, and like Fel, he really doesn't want to be double stressed.

Tactician is okay, it's one point cheaper but has way more limitations. Since there is also a chance you may need to stay cloaked, you may not even trigger him. Weapons Engineer is okay, but triple aces and Palp aces typically don't fly in formation so you might not even get a second target lock. Mara Jade is decent too, but a lot of the common aces are already going to be stressed when she triggers. Rebel Captive has none of those weaknesses.

Echo is maybe viable given how common PS 8 aces are, but I'd still rather take Whisper or find something else.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
All of your hypotheticals don't matter because there is no card that can be perfect for every situation. However, Rebel Captive is good on a Phantom because of what it does defend against. The chances are that Whisper is going to be your opponents' primary target because she's dangerous, expensive, and no decent player is going to give you free reign to flank his ship with her. In an ace-heavy meta, your opponent's best ace is probably going to pull Phantom hunting duty. Forcing that ship to take unavoidable stress is awesome, even if you're cloaked or have no shot. Fel really doesn't want to double stress and if he doesn't, that means no PtL which kills most of what him great. Poe or Wedge have limit green moves so limiting them is fantastic. The same goes with Vader, who's green moves suck. The Inquisitor is probably going to be stressed as well, and like Fel, he really doesn't want to be double stressed.

Tactician is okay, it's one point cheaper but has way more limitations. Since there is also a chance you may need to stay cloaked, you may not even trigger him. Weapons Engineer is okay, but triple aces and Palp aces typically don't fly in formation so you might not even get a second target lock. Mara Jade is decent too, but a lot of the common aces are already going to be stressed when she triggers. Rebel Captive has none of those weaknesses.

Echo is maybe viable given how common PS 8 aces are, but I'd still rather take Whisper or find something else.

Well okay, I think you make a good argument, and I accept that I may have undervalued Rebel Captive.

Continuing from the point that no card is perfect, do you think there are decent alternatives to VI and Advanced Cloaking?

 Smacks wrote:
[Continuing from the point that no card is perfect, do you think there are decent alternatives to VI and Advanced Cloaking?

No. There is no possible benefit that is better than re-cloaking with ACD. Getting the extra green dice and re-positioning move every turn is just that powerful. And once you accept that ACD is the key to making a phantom work VI is obviously equally mandatory. Going from PS 7 to PS 9 makes a huge difference in when you re-cloak, which is often the difference between life and death when your target returns fire. The ONLY time you can even consider something other than VI is if you know that your opponent(s) will not be bringing any ships above PS 6, and that just doesn't happen in anything resembling the common metagame.

 Smacks wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
All of your hypotheticals don't matter because there is no card that can be perfect for every situation. However, Rebel Captive is good on a Phantom because of what it does defend against. The chances are that Whisper is going to be your opponents' primary target because she's dangerous, expensive, and no decent player is going to give you free reign to flank his ship with her. In an ace-heavy meta, your opponent's best ace is probably going to pull Phantom hunting duty. Forcing that ship to take unavoidable stress is awesome, even if you're cloaked or have no shot. Fel really doesn't want to double stress and if he doesn't, that means no PtL which kills most of what him great. Poe or Wedge have limit green moves so limiting them is fantastic. The same goes with Vader, who's green moves suck. The Inquisitor is probably going to be stressed as well, and like Fel, he really doesn't want to be double stressed.

Tactician is okay, it's one point cheaper but has way more limitations. Since there is also a chance you may need to stay cloaked, you may not even trigger him. Weapons Engineer is okay, but triple aces and Palp aces typically don't fly in formation so you might not even get a second target lock. Mara Jade is decent too, but a lot of the common aces are already going to be stressed when she triggers. Rebel Captive has none of those weaknesses.

Echo is maybe viable given how common PS 8 aces are, but I'd still rather take Whisper or find something else.

Well okay, I think you make a good argument, and I accept that I may have undervalued Rebel Captive.

Continuing from the point that no card is perfect, do you think there are decent alternatives to VI and Advanced Cloaking?

If you aren't using ACD then for the phantom the only real smart option is Stygium Particle Accelerator. If you are using SPA then juke can be decent, long wolf can't hurt, outmaneuver (but thats more of an echo than whisper card) , maybe even Adrenaline Rush for a white k-turn once. A big problem is that the phantom is already great at offense but very poor on defense and most of the upgrade slots for a phantom are used to improve its quality of life, and there aren't many EPT that help do that as much as VI in a weird way because being able to shoot first and react last can be just as good or even better if you kill a ship that would attack you.

The problem with Veteran Instincts is that not only does Advanced Cloaking Device really, really want it, but so does Whisper's pilot ability - that free focus, combined with the two bonus green dice, is what makes you a bugger to hit.

Stygium Particle Accelerator is a good card for its cost - a free evade is not to be sniffed at - but it makes the phantom something of a one-use weapon; whilst the free evade is not much worse than two extra green dice (arguably better against a lone attacker), the fact that you're not cloaked for the next turn means you're much more predictable.

I dunno. I guess Echo/Juke/Stygium could work, but I do have serious reservations. Turrets are an issue, because no matter how canny your decloak, there are people who go "that's nice" and still shoot the crud out of you with a 3+ dice turret, not caring where you are relative to them (because unlike the interceptor you can't take autothrusters).


The one trick I've seen work other than Veteran Instincts is essentially veteran instincts anyway. One person in our club used Veteran Instincts Darth Vader (for PS11), and Echo with Decoy. Vader gets to use PS11 to outfly the opponent the way aces usually do, whilst with Echo you have to outthink your opponent because the decloak move is locked in before dials resolve. But, in the combat phase, they swap pilot skills, and suddenly the phantom (who desperately needs to shoot first) can get the drop on a PS10 Poe Dameron if she needs to.

The rest of the squad was a pair of TIE fighters - I think one of them was Epsilon Ace, so there was a 'backup' high PS Echo could grab if Vader got killed early.

I like the idea that all the prisoners the Empire takes are just loaded onto Phantoms. They're probably kept in pens near the hangar bay, and all the Phantom pilots probably think of them like astromechs.

"This Rebel Captive is a bit beat up, want a new one?"

 Smacks wrote:
Continuing from the point that no card is perfect, do you think there are decent alternatives to VI and Advanced Cloaking?

On a named Phantom? No.

Advanced Cloaking Device is just too good to pass up on a named Phantom, and like Peregrine said, this pushes you towards VI to make sure you shoot before as many ships as you're likely going to face as possible. It's also nice because it's optional to use and there might be times where recloaking isn't preferred. If you know your opponent isn't going to out PS your non-VI Phantom, then of course VI is purely optional, but the only time that will be guaranteed to happen is in casual play.