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 Peregrine wrote:
IG-88: can't see the rules text, but the article says you get to share IG-88 pilot abilities. This is a huge restriction in list building, but an equally huge reward for doing it. Imagine PTL/EU Dengar getting an evade token from every boost, or HLC scyks getting a "gunner" effect (lol yeah right, even I can't say that seriously). Of course if FFG is really evil they're going to make it IG-88C so you can't get those free evade tokens, and everyone will cry.

I assumed it was a crew upgrade that lets your ship tap into the brobots network, so you'll share whatever ig2000 pilot you take with it. Can scyks take crew?

 Smacks wrote:
I assumed it was a crew upgrade that lets your ship tap into the brobots network, so you'll share whatever ig2000 pilot you take with it.

That's almost certainly what it does, but remember that the unique rule prevents you from taking pilot and crew versions of the same named character. If the name of the crew upgrade is "IG-88C" then you can't take IG-88C (ship) in your list and you won't have access to the "when you boost get an evade token" pilot ability. You could still freely choose from the other three IG-88 versions when building your list, just not the one you probably want most.

Can scyks take crew?

No. That was a joke at how useless IG-88B's pilot ability is for scum if you aren't playing brobots.

people proposing the PTL + electronic baffle combo to shoot in the action phase are insane, paying points to kill yourself is not a good plan.

In some ways it's a shame that Quickdraw's Pilot Skill is so high. The Baffle idea is a nice trick if it lets you get shots into someone before they can put focus/evade tokens into play - something that PS9 probably prevents. I'd consider paying a shield to fly up and hoof soontir fel in the pods at range 1 before he can move and take actions... with Quickdraw at PS9 it's possible but initiative dependent. Also - unless they're in a book, I kind of liked the "Ace" "Leader" thing the first order had going on, it seems weird they now suddenly have call-signs.

The second TIE/sf pilot's ability looks pretty short, so it'll be interesting to see what it is.

Sensor Cluster (I assume) looks good. I agree it's probably a defensive version of weapons guidance. I dunno... I guess knowing for a fact you always have the option to spend a focus is good, but on the TIE/fo you're competing with Comms Relay which is probably better, whilst on the TIE/sf you've got 3 red dice to 2 green dice, and a decent pilot skill, so the odds are you'll have spend that focus on shooting before you get to defending.



Also - the one other thing worth noting: the TIE/sf is the TIE/sf Fighter.

If I understand it right, that means - by FFG's rulings on the TIE/fo Fighter and T-70 X-wing, that it qualifies as a TIE Fighter for stuff that's TIE Fighter only. Which means there is now a 3 attack, missile carrying, PS9 pilot in a tough ship who can use Youngster's elite pilot talent-sharing ability if he's so inclined. I'm not sure off the top of my head how to use this interaction, but I think it's definitely one to remember.



The "fly alongside, shoot back and front at the same target" is a nice trick, but probably not something you can plan on achieving reliably with a TIE/sf. Nevertheless, I think you're entitled to look smug for a bit if you manage it - especially if it's quickdraw; they're both primary weapons, so theoretically you could put four three-dice attacks in(you'd have to be at range 1 for this to work).

I agree fearless ain't too great on the Mando Fighter - it looks too much like a TIE interceptor not to want Push The Limit by default*; I'm not sure where else it might work, though. A lot of it will depend on the cost; if it's essentially crack shot, reusable but only at range 1, I'm sure it's possible to find a use for it. It looks like it's scum only, though.

* Caveat: we don't know if the dial will support a push-the-limit based action economy. The only manoeuvre we know it has is a surprisingly short speed 2 K-turn (I guess a lot of scum ships are actually quite slow), and we know it has a Tallon Roll because it includes the rules card. It may turn out not to have much green - certainly if there's no green turn, there may be some mileage in 'action free' bonuses like Lone Wolf instead.

 Peregrine wrote:
That's almost certainly what it does, but remember that the unique rule prevents you from taking pilot and crew versions of the same named character. If the name of the crew upgrade is "IG-88C" then you can't take IG-88C (ship) in your list and you won't have access to the "when you boost get an evade token" pilot ability. You could still freely choose from the other three IG-88 versions when building your list, just not the one you probably want most.

It says you can share "any", so maybe he will just be IG-88, and they'll leave open the blasphemous possibility of having 5 of them in epic.

I would assume (maybe wrongly) that it'll be IG-88B, since he's the one we've seen 'outside his ship' on the executor.

Which is sadly probably the best IG-2000 ability, but on the other hand its also the one most related to the Aggressor due to the cannon/system slot jank they can pull.

The idea of a ship with a white, 90' segnor's loop is scary but I guess no worse than green K-turns that Countess Ryad is known to be capable of.

There is a mod for the Shadow Caster, Gyro??? Tar??? which would seem to allow you to shift the mobile arc after executing a high speed maneuver. It's not a great solution, if you take it you can't take EU, but depending on the dial it might be an option.

The neat thing about Ketsu's pilot ability is that it just says "a ship", not "an enemy ship", so if you really need to you can TB your own ship to boost/br them into/out of arc, or get them off a rock they may have flown onto. Since only the first TB token actually grants forced movement, it also means your opponent can't throw your ship onto a rock or something. Extremely situational, to be sure, but it's there.

Also, IG crew is basically a new member of the Party Bus.

Moralo Eval (34)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
4-LOM (1)
Zuckuss (1)
IG-88 crew goes here (x)
Glitterstim (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)

IG-88B (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Autothrusters (2)
IG-2000 (0)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Leaves up to 3 points for IG. If he's somehow more than that (he shouldn't be more than 1-2 at most), drop the glitter from Moralo. If he's only 1 point, grab Glitterstim for IG-88B, or upgrade Crack Shot to PTL.

At least two of these look awesome! Maybe the Rebels ships will too once I get around to catching up on it.

Between Imperial Veterans and this it looks like my interest has been reignited!

Anyone else notice that the PS6 Shadowcaster seems to be piloted by one "Asajj [Ventress]"?

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Anyone else notice that the PS6 Shadowcaster seems to be piloted by one "Asajj [Ventress]"?

Oooohhh, I did not notice that. That's dope.

I wish FFG could find a way to make every pilot and upgrade useful and break up this "not PS9/PTL slot/2for1 action? garbage" meta that seems to exist online. It's what scares me and probably more people away from ever playing in tournaments.

More than any other game, X Wing allows nearly every option to garner mileage in game. More than that, the design team will actively go back and visit concepts or ships that aren't performing as well as they'd like.

There are better choices, but more often they're the choices that either forgive errors the most or require less skill to deploy successfully. eg a TIE swarm is probably a lot more effective than TLT Y Wing spam, but requires a much higher degree of practice/ability to play, making it appear "worse" in the hands of a player that isn't used to flying it.

If you're scared of entering an environment where your ability to play the game will be tested and where you need to choose the appropriate options to give you the best chance of displaying that ability, I don't know what to tell you? "Fly like you got a pair" maybe? I mean, seriously, you lose a few games of pew pew space ships, what's so scary about that? Or maybe you don't lose, who can say if you're scared to test yourself in the first place?

Sadly, the full-blown TIE swarm seems to be a victim of tournament time limits.

 Azreal13 wrote:


If you're scared of entering an environment where your ability to play the game will be tested and where you need to choose the appropriate options to give you the best chance of displaying that ability, I don't know what to tell you? "Fly like you got a pair" maybe? I mean, seriously, you lose a few games of pew pew space ships, what's so scary about that? Or maybe you don't lose, who can say if you're scared to test yourself in the first place?

Nailed it.

I think the thing that drives most people away from the game is the expectation that they'll immediately be good at it, go to a tournament, and then realize there's a lot more to the game than "NETLIST....GO!".

I tell new players that every game is a learning experience, and -guess what?- sometimes you're going to get your ass handed to you a few times. It's happened to all of us. I'm a fairly good player IMO, and I still get walloped once in a while, even with "good" lists.

Don't let some upgrade cards and aces scare you off what is a really great game.

Besdies, if your community is great, losing isn't all that bad, because you do it in a cool environment.

I'm pretty much going to get my hands on an ARC-170 asap. Love that ship.

Other ships look fine, except the Shadow Caster looks just a little too cleaned up for me. A little more damage/grit on the hull could make it fit in better. But hey, that's what custom paint jobs are for.

Henshini wrote:
I wish FFG could find a way to make every pilot and upgrade useful and break up this "not PS9/PTL slot/2for1 action? garbage" meta that seems to exist online. It's what scares me and probably more people away from ever playing in tournaments.

I have to admit, I love PTL and 2 for 1 action aces. I think every ship should have boost (almost). Without the post move actions, it comes down to a guessing game of "right, left, or middle" which could easily be "rock, paper, or scissors" for all the skill that's involved. It's the actions that really make the game interesting for me.

I agree with you somewhat about Pilot Skill. There are a lot of pilots with interesting abilities that just aren't used because their PS isn't quite high enough. Though the thing I find most frustrating is when a ship's only upgrade slot is blocked by something it always needs to have, for example Darth Vader and Engine Upgrade, or the Phantom and Advanced Cloaking. I really wish there were an option to expand the Elite or Modification slots by one, so we could have more variety with those kind of ships. I also agree that it would be nice if there were a few more ways to mitigate Pilot Skill so that we could have a few more of the PS 5-6 pilots seeing play.

I think these are some good additions but still want Naboo and Separatists Droid Vulture Fighters.

 thesilverback wrote:
I think these are some good additions but still want Naboo and Separatists Droid Vulture Fighters.

I don't see these ships occupying a useful niche.

Droid Vulture- Who flew these things post clone wars? I do not believe that the game needs a 4th faction.

Naboo fighter- How is this thing any different than a Headhunter? Other than the Astromech slot, capabilities are similar.

Would Naboo Fighters joining the Rebel faction be any weirder than having Force Awakens stuff mixed in with original trilogy? It's about the same time jump. They could even use the same "the Rebels overhauled old ships" justification the ARC is using. Droid fighters could maybe work as Scum, if nothing else because Scum is a pretty thematically broad faction to begin with.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Would Naboo Fighters joining the Rebel faction be any weirder than having Force Awakens stuff mixed in with original trilogy? It's about the same time jump. They could even use the same "the Rebels overhauled old ships" justification the ARC is using. Droid fighters could maybe work as Scum, if nothing else because Scum is a pretty thematically broad faction to begin with.

I'm not sure the shiny WW2 aesthetic of the Naboo fighters would fit too well, yep the Scum ships are a bit of mish-mash but still mostly conform to the 'lived in' look of the later films, and whilst a bit a time-stretch both the T70 and FO TIe are still basically X-wings and TIE, as for the ARC isn't it in Rebels rather than being a strictly Clone Wars thing

They could do an "Old Republic Expansion Pack" like the scum got the most wanted pack and add a new faction. Pack quotidian be arc 170 and naboo starfighter.

That would open up things for other ships from that era, like jedi starfighter, those storm trooper drop ships, etc.

I have to admit, I love PTL and 2 for 1 action aces. I think every ship should have boost (almost). Without the post move actions, it comes down to a guessing game of "right, left, or middle" which could easily be "rock, paper, or scissors" for all the skill that's involved. It's the actions that really make the game interesting for me.

I'll be honest, I couldn't disagree more. It's not just a guessing game - you need to figure out where your opponent could move to, and there are almost always 'better' and 'worse' moves you could chose. By comparison, boost/barrel roll as a reactive move afterwards - especially with large ships - if anything tends to take the skill out of it, because you're correcting your mistakes in full knowledge of where everything is.

Similarly, I've always liked the high manouvrabiltiy, lower PS aces - Blue Ace takes some using because you can't boost 'reactively', but he can still make that fighter dance, and sometimes you can place him where nothing your opponent can do helps - a straight speed 4 followed by a boost hard turn is a nice party trick.

Managing to block and trap a higher manoeuvrability, higher pilot skill boost/barrel roll ship with 'lesser' ships strikes me as a better demonstration of skill.

Still, to each their own.

locarno24 wrote:
I'll be honest, I couldn't disagree more. It's not just a guessing game - you need to figure out where your opponent could move to, and there are almost always 'better' and 'worse' moves you could chose.

Better or worse is based on hidden information. Scissors is a better move if your opponent picks Rock, but that doesn't make it skilful.

For example, I played a game a few weeks ago where I had Soontir Fel facing down Talonbane Cobra (almost head on, about 6 ships apart), and I had the initiative. The obvious move was just go 2 straight and take another shot, but that left open the possibility of him k-turning and ending up behind me (which would suck because Fel can't k-turn while using PTL). After some thought, I decided that being lined up, and trading blows with a sturdier ship, wasn't really playing to the interceptor's strengths. So I decided to disengage completely, and hopefully get a better angle later. I pulled a hard right turn, and boosted away, presumably out of any arcs. My opponent flips his dial and reveals a banking left turn, which placed him behind me, with my ship squarely in his sights. In retrospect, it was the best possible move, but with the information he had it was frankly ridiculous. If I had just gone 2 straight, it would have given me a R1 shot on him, from outside his arc. It was a terrible terrible move, when k-turning behind me was completely risk free. There is no way he could have known that I would try to run, or that I would turn right. It was just pure luck. He chose left, if I pick straight then I win, if I pick right then he wins. That is exactly the same as: he chose scissors, if I pick rock then I win, if I pick paper then he wins.

There is a lot of skill involved in flying the aces well, because the boosts and rolls can fit together in all sorts of ways. Even when I'm 99% sure that someone is about to k-turn. It takes skill to think about where they are going to end up, and what combination of manoeuvre + boost/roll is needed to get an R1 shot from outside their arc, and to do it all in your head before you lock your dial.

X Wing is a guessing game the same way Poker is.

Anyone notice that the Latts Razzi crew card starts "When defending, you may remove a stress token from the attacker to add..."? Given the rest of the wave is all about adding Eyeball results, I am forced to wonder exactly how many eyeballs it is going to add to make de-stressing the ATTACKER worthwhile.

Or she's just DoA, but Scum Crew have been pretty fantastic so far.

 Azreal13 wrote:
X Wing is a guessing game the same way Poker is.

In poker you also get to make decisions after you see the flop, which really only strengthens my argument. Without that it would be little more than Bingo.

Well, that would depend on the variant you're playing, but my point was you play your opponent as much as you play the game, and seldom am I guessing at my maneuvers in a vacuum.

There may be a certain amount of uncertainty, but board position, obstacle location, positioning of other ships, the PS of the pilot, the options on the dial of the ship (if I know it well enough) as well as the attitude of my opponent (are they aggressive, will they risk overflying that asteroid in order to get the shot? Will they forgo their own offence in order to mitigate incoming fire?) mean I'm seldom guessing these days. Whether I'm in a position to capitalize on the information, is a whole different set of questions, and one can never legislate for one's opponent doing something unexpected, deliberately or unwittingly, which is what keeps the game fresh and interesting.

To boil the Planning Phase down to guessing or Rock Paper Scissors is either a gross simplification or chronic misunderstanding of the most important phase of the game.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, that would depend on the variant you're playing, but my point was you play your opponent as much as you play the game, and seldom am I guessing at my maneuvers in a vacuum.

Rock, paper, scissors isn't guessing in a vacuum either. If your opponent went scissors the last two times, will they do it again? Or are they trying to trick you in to going rock, so they can beat you with paper? Or maybe they're sneaky and they know that you'll think that, so they'll go Rock to double bluff you. There is a whole world of intrigue there, but it is still ultimately guessing.

 Azreal13 wrote:
There may be a certain amount of uncertainty, but board position, obstacle location, positioning of other ships, the PS of the pilot, the options on the dial of the ship (if I know it well enough) as well as the attitude of my opponent (are they aggressive, will they risk overflying that asteroid in order to get the shot? Will they forgo their own offence in order to mitigate incoming fire?) mean I'm seldom guessing these days.

Well I would argue that you are still "always" guessing. Sometimes a person's options are so limited that it doesn't matter what they do, and there are things you can do to limit their options, but equally there are things they can do to limit your options, so again it comes back to trying to out guess each other.

If I always won at rock, paper, scissors because my opponents moved in predictable patterns, then I might also consider myself skilled at the game, but given the small number of possible moves, being 1 step ahead, or 2 steps behind is going to look exactly the same.

 Azreal13 wrote:
To boil the Planning Phase down to guessing or Rock Paper Scissors is either a gross simplification or chronic misunderstanding of the most important phase of the game.

It was something of a simplification, because I was talking about guessing what one ship's move is going to be without actions. Sometimes you can cover more than one option, sometimes you can cover all the options, and sometimes you just have to guess right. In my example, my opponent's move was unexpected because it wasn't a sensible move. The poker equivalent would be someone following you "all in" against aces with an unlikely drawing hand, and then hitting their card on the river. It shouldn't happen, but that's guessing for you: no matter how good you are, sometimes you still get it wrong, because ultimately you just don't know.

That's why I like the aces and the post move actions. I don't think of it as making the game easy by correcting "mistakes", I think of it as giving you more options to mitigate randomness using skill. Which is why I think it's an important and enriching aspect of the game.

I think you're using "guess" in a context that I might choose something like "judgement call."

To me a guess is making a decision in the absence of any information, with an outcome likely indistinguishable from random, where skill and experience have no impact. Something that isn't the case in X Wing.

The rock-paper scissors analogy is bad, because in R-P-S, the only thing that can affect the choice is a players own preference (I tend to play paper a lot, because I've noticed a lot of people really like rock). Ignoring player preferences, each choice is equal in probability.

In X-wing, not only is there a player factor (Aggressive vs defensive, etc.), there is also the fact that you have terrain on the board, and other ships. These change how "Good" a particular move is. There is also the fact that a move made this turn will affect the quality of next turns movement, whereas R-P-S does not.