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 Kanluwen wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:
I wonder how GW will handle the chapter pads in this kit. I expect transfers because its eaiser to have a ton of chapter symbols that way, but I could see them going with molded pads. I wonder if they'll release one of those masive transfer sheets like they did with Skitarii and the Tau for even more options.

I imagine that this is a multi-part plastic kit with separate pads. If GW was smart, they'd make this new Deathwath an advertisement for their upgrade sprues and FW parts. All it would take is a small catalog of all their chapter sprues, shoulder pads and FW pads and possibly a showcase of novels that deal with the Deathwatch and the advertised chapters. It could fetch them another pile of pretty pennies in addition to the money the deathwatch box would rake in.

Considering how many Chapters don't even have GW available transfer sheets?

Yeah. It's a great chance for them to do transfers.

I think it'll just end up a reason for GW to web-bundle and sell those chapter upgrade blisters.

I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.

That would make me happy.

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.

That would make me happy.

What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.

That would make me happy.

What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?

Because if they are going to be super powerful elite space marines, then they would just make normal marines utterly imbalanced. That's what I figured anyway. Do they even work with normal chapters in the fluff?

 General Kroll wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.

That would make me happy.

What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?

Because if they are going to be super powerful elite space marines, then they would just make normal marines utterly imbalanced. That's what I figured anyway. Do they even work with normal chapters in the fluff?

Yep they do, sometimes they are sent in alone as Kill teams - usually when the Inquisition or other powers ask, sometimes they act with other Astartes.

GW makes mainly Marines and they sell the most of them - because they are the largest range, so they make less other stuff so it sells less, so they make more Marines and it sells more than the stuff they make less off - and so on.

 General Kroll wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.

That would make me happy.

What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?

Because if they are going to be super powerful elite space marines, then they would just make normal marines utterly imbalanced. That's what I figured anyway. Do they even work with normal chapters in the fluff?

Yes, they work with other Chapters in the fluff. The Deathwatch Ignition book has a few instances of this happening. The one that comes to mind the best is Drenn Redblade's story which has the Deathwatch allying with the Space Wolves to battle Orks.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.

How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.

How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.

The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?

The Return to Damnos story has a DeathWatch Killteam working with the Ultramarines. They even give Sicarius a Vortex Grenade, which he uses to off a Transcendent Ctan that is on a rampage through the Necron and UM lines.

Then they slag the Necron Overlord in his tomb complex.

Fair enough then, I just thought it would be a cool,excuse to shoe horn in some movie marines :(

Heh. Movie Marines. I remember those.

Personally I want parts for a Deathwatch Dread. Just a bit that fits over a Dread's shoulder would be enough.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?

And when you happen upon a Carnifex? Or a Hammerhead?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. Movie Marines. I remember those.

Personally I want parts for a Deathwatch Dread. Just a bit that fits over a Dread's shoulder would be enough.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?

And when you happen upon a Carnifex? Or a Hammerhead?

Well, against a Carnifex, the Lascannon wounds on 2s, the Frag Cannon wounds on 3s. But the Frag Cannon gets more shots so it ends up winning out. But, obviously a vehicle hunting weapon will be better against a vehicle, but the Frag Cannon still can get the job done.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.

How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.

The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?

Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.

How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.

The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?

Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.

The Frag Cannon is a Str 7 weapon. It will do admirably against most vehicles. And it can take elect to fire its Str 6 template shot to deal with the occupants when the vehicle is disabled.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.

How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.

The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?

Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.

The Frag Cannon is a Str 7 weapon. It will do admirably against most vehicles. And it can take elect to fire its Str 6 template shot to deal with the occupants when the vehicle is disabled.

It won't hurt anything with AV14 and struggle against AV13.

Yes frag cannon is good weapon but it's not ultimate "I'm going to kill everything with it". There's definitely role for lascannon so why on earth military force of Ordo Xenos would NOT wield it? Hardly super rare equipment and Inquisitors have enough clout to arm their military force pretty damn well...Ubiquous lascannon is no brainer.

But yeah. Let's bring in only frag cannons against monolith because...reasons! That's going to work really well!

tneva82 wrote:
Yes frag cannon is good weapon but it's not ultimate "I'm going to kill everything with it". There's definitely role for lascannon so why on earth military force of Ordo Xenos would NOT wield it? Hardly super rare equipment and Inquisitors have enough clout to arm their military force pretty damn well...Ubiquous lascannon is no brainer.

But yeah. Let's bring in only frag cannons against monolith because...reasons! That's going to work really well!

That's not what he started out saying though. He was saying that if they release a kit for the DW, he'd like to see the frag cannon for the anti-big stuff role. He can get lascannons elsewhere.

It's obvious dw will have the standard marine stats line. Hell, most of the overwatch named marines have it

 Lord Corellia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yes frag cannon is good weapon but it's not ultimate "I'm going to kill everything with it". There's definitely role for lascannon so why on earth military force of Ordo Xenos would NOT wield it? Hardly super rare equipment and Inquisitors have enough clout to arm their military force pretty damn well...Ubiquous lascannon is no brainer.

But yeah. Let's bring in only frag cannons against monolith because...reasons! That's going to work really well!

That's not what he started out saying though. He was saying that if they release a kit for the DW, he'd like to see the frag cannon for the anti-big stuff role. He can get lascannons elsewhere.

And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.

I agree with you. Give them the option for a lascannon, by all means. For the love of god though, don't have it take up valuable space on an upgrade frame!

I agree. If there's a baseline deathwatch kit, it should come with frag launchers and other more exotic weaponry than what gets issued to standard marines.

If I want to give my DW lascannons, I can buy a Devastator kit and kit bash.

If deathwatch need to kill vehicles and big nasties, they aren't going to use a lascannon or a frag cannon, they will bring a gravcannon with amp, like other marines.

Next stupid argument please.

I'll add, whilst deathwatch would use lascannons for anti tank at times, it doesn't fit their mobility, they don't tend to hunker down and shoot from long range on their missions, they get up close and stick a melta bomb, aim a melta gun at it or stick a power fist through it, or fire a grav cannon at it whilst on the move. I think it would be great if they got underslung grenade launchers on their bolt guns with one off ammo as well. So it would work a combi weapon, but would be more than one use, the grenades would be multi use, and possibly be able to fire in the same turn as the bolter,

They should all be relentless when equipped with a bolter as well, and 2 attacks base (to mimic the old true grit rules where they can fire one handed and hold a H2H in the other.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.

How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.

The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?

Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.

The Frag Cannon is a Str 7 weapon. It will do admirably against most vehicles. And it can take elect to fire its Str 6 template shot to deal with the occupants when the vehicle is disabled.

"Whoa Bro Seph, leave the Lascannon at home! While it's better against heavy vehicles, the Frag Cannon still has a baseline strength of 7, and also has the template option. It's a much more versatile weapon."
"What in the Emperor's name are you on about?"

I don't think the DW are choosing one weapon over the other for their 40k stats.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.

I agree with you. Give them the option for a lascannon, by all means. For the love of god though, don't have it take up valuable space on an upgrade frame!

absolutely. I am not saying that they shouldn't have access to the Lascannon. I am saying, for what they do, the Lascannon isn't a great option for the DW a lot of the time. It is unwieldy and would slow the squad down.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.

I agree with you. Give them the option for a lascannon, by all means. For the love of god though, don't have it take up valuable space on an upgrade frame!

absolutely. I am not saying that they shouldn't have access to the Lascannon. I am saying, for what they do, the Lascannon isn't a great option for the DW a lot of the time. It is unwieldy and would slow the squad down.

Depends on how many Suspensors it has?

General Hobbs wrote:


If history is any indicator.....every time I convert up an army, GW comes out with models for it, or changes the rules and makes my models illegal.

I just did 2 squads of sternguard, 15 regular tactical DW marines, and some assorted special weapon/devastator/assault/vanguard marines. and 2 units of scouts. ( all told about 70 guys)


Let's see how they screw me this time!!!! LOL

Seconded I feel you there the invalidated my DE build with this codex and i'm sitting on a battle company worth of deathwatch conversions minus vehicles as I felt drop pods more fluffy. But I want frag cannons and a new flyer. The deathwatch have access to xenos tech also. It is mentioned in fluff that they are the one's who brought the phase blade to the Imperium. Perhaps some non overheating plasma? or some of the ordo xenia inquisitor war gear choices. Plasma siphon venom talon crazy grenades .... deathwatch sniper's with an Imperial ossification gun? lots of fun fluffy options. Suspension webbing giving relentless at a hit to range. Old marine codex had assault heavy bolter. A 24in. Lascannon anyone?

 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
A 24in. Lascannon anyone?

The Ghosar Quintus Brood calls that a Mining Laser...

Next Codex will be the Mentor Chapter and their Time distort tech...........

So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?

 kronk wrote:
So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?

100% Hardback if there are going to be plastic kits

 kronk wrote:
So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?

How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.