Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ARC-170 Preview is up.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/7/11/alliance-overhaul/











Some interesting Stuff. Braylen Stram looks like a good candidate for a stressbot+tactician combo. R3 Astromech looks like it could be a decent choice of 'mech for the integrated tax. Tail Gunner on Kath Scarlet [Scum] looks downright nasty.

Tail Gunner on Kath seems obvious, but frankly with the wealth of great scum pilot options I dunno. Reducing AGI is nice with solid hit rolls to be sure, but you generally need actions to get a solid hit roll. K4 or Dengar for rerolls are only a point more. 4-Lom is a point less and can be used to block tokens (albeit at the cost of an Ion Token).

I will almost certainly give the combo a try, Kath is one of my favorite Scum pilots bar none, but I need all the TL/Focus I can get when trying to hit stuff.

First impressions:

"Generic" ARC-170: as usual, the dial matters, but I think it's a ship with potential. You get a 3-dice gun with a secondary arc, an ok stat line, and a really nice upgrade bar. At 25 points for the PS 3 FFG is probably assuming that a PS 2 generic would be 23-24 points, which seems reasonable compared to a b-wing. You get +1 HP (but with a weaker shield/hull ratio), a better upgrade bar, and the rear arc, all for +1-2 points? Good deal I think. And we know the dial has a lot of green on it, so it shouldn't be too disappointing even if it doesn't get green turns.

Braylen Stramm: obviously the "cheap generic" of the expansion, and an obvious candidate for R3-A2. I think his value will depend greatly on what the green maneuvers are. If it's a good dial his pilot ability is pretty much redundant. If it's (somehow) a bad dial then it's pretty good for clearing R3-A2 stress on a ship that would otherwise struggle to get actions. Overall it's probably not going to be a strong ability since the earlier preview promised lots of greens at low speed. On the other hand he's the cheapest option, so that's worth something at least.

Thane Kyrell: too conditional. This would be pretty good if it didn't have the "another" restriction attached. As it is I just don't see this happening often enough to be good, and upgrading from PS 3 with no EPT to PS 4 with no EPT doesn't have much value.

Shara Bey: finally we're getting somewhere. But is it somewhere we want to go? Getting +2 PS and an EPT for only +2 points is a good deal, but her pilot ability really wants weapons engineer to be useful. And that means a lot of points and no tail gunner (we're getting to that). There are worse things in the game, but I think this is going to be one of those ships where people set up awesome combos in theory and are disappointed over and over again with how they work on the table.

Nora Wexley: going to have to revise my initial opinion here, post-tail-gunner. She's still going to be expensive and limited by PS 7, but maybe she can still be good? Spending a target lock to add an {eye} which immediately turns into a {crit} is going to be kind of scary with tail gunner dropping your agility. Maybe this is the Farlander trap all over again, but I'm excited to try it.

Tail Gunner: and here it is, the complete re-evaluation of the ARC-170. This is just plain nasty. Now your 2-dice tail gun is effectively a 3-dice gun, but with an {eye} turning into a {crit}. That's arguably better than a 3-dice primary shot. Make them chase you, make them die. And on other rear-arc ships that already have full-dice attacks? That's scary.

R3 Astromech: disappointing. It's a really awkward way of getting an evade token, and it isn't even cheap enough to be IA fodder. Getting {eye} results when attacking is not reliable at all, and getting them with no focus token to spend is even less reliable. Just pay the extra 1-2 points for a regen droid if you want better tank.

Vectored Thrusters: just like expected, barrel roll for 2 points. Not sure who is going to want this, but it's there if they do.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:
Tail Gunner on Kath seems obvious, but frankly with the wealth of great scum pilot options I dunno. Reducing AGI is nice with solid hit rolls to be sure, but you generally need actions to get a solid hit roll. K4 or Dengar for rerolls are only a point more. 4-Lom is a point less and can be used to block tokens (albeit at the cost of an Ion Token).

Remember that predator is a thing. Focus + predator is almost as good as focus + TL, and the tail gunner gives you even more firepower once your other dice modification gives you full hits.

My Thoughts:

Stramm and Wexley look like they will be the go-to pilots, with Stramm running a stress build and Wexley playing offence. Big use of Stramms ability will probably be to allow you to execute a red maneuver and R3-A2's ability (double-stressing you) and still having a chance of clearing both next turn.

Kyrell will probably just be the go-to guy for triple-ARC lists, because he has a better ability than Shara Bey, especially once you add in a droid that gives you more actions (Such as R7-T1). Combine R7-T1 with Vetored thrusters, and I suspect that he will be a very distracting pilot.

Peregrine wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Tail Gunner on Kath seems obvious, but frankly with the wealth of great scum pilot options I dunno. Reducing AGI is nice with solid hit rolls to be sure, but you generally need actions to get a solid hit roll. K4 or Dengar for rerolls are only a point more. 4-Lom is a point less and can be used to block tokens (albeit at the cost of an Ion Token).

Remember that predator is a thing. Focus + predator is almost as good as focus + TL, and the tail gunner gives you even more firepower once your other dice modification gives you full hits.

True, but predator means no VI, and the 7 to 9 jump is one of the more important areas to jump.

This has become a nasty little ship with that tail gunner....

I think that it is cool that there are aren't any unnamed pilots.

Spending a target lock to add an {eye} which immediately turns into a {crit} is going to be kind of scary with tail gunner dropping your agility. Maybe this is the Farlander trap all over again, but I'm excited to try it.

Theoretically, with an R3 astromech you can also 'exchange' a target lock for an Evade token, because you've always got the 'extra' focus result. It seems a rather convoluted way to get the token, but I guess getting an evade token on a big agility 1 beast like an ARC shouldn't exactly be cheap or easy. For two points, if I wanted the ability to get Evade tokens I'd probably take Jan Ors instead. This ability is.... I dunno.

You only get the evade token when you attack, so it's no use for a low-level generic, because getting an evade token is useless if the other guy already shot. On other ships, A T-70 could in theory fit a comms relay to catch and keep the evade, but then you're spending 5 points (more than R2-D2) on something that doesn't trigger very often and bites into your firepower when you do, which doesn't strike me as an especially good deal.

obviously the "cheap generic" of the expansion, and an obvious candidate for R3-A2. I think his value will depend greatly on what the green maneuvers are. If it's a good dial his pilot ability is pretty much redundant. If it's (somehow) a bad dial then it's pretty good for clearing R3-A2 stress on a ship that would otherwise struggle to get actions. Overall it's probably not going to be a strong ability since the earlier preview promised lots of greens at low speed. On the other hand he's the cheapest option, so that's worth something at least.

Pretty much agreed. A 50/50 chance of binning off a stress after you execute a manoeuvre has to be good. Just to check timings - as I understand it it might clear the stress from a K-turn you've just pulled (assuming the ship has a K-turn). Not something you can rely on, but certainly nice when it happens.

Vectored thrusters....... Hmm. Most Imperial ships that would be interested in barrel roll already have it. On the rebel side, X-wings are kind of nailed to Integrated Astromech, A-wings to Autothrusters, and B-wings and E-wings already have barrel roll, so by and large this is for the Y-wing, K-wing, HWK and the ARC-170.

barrel roll is a nice action for a Twin Laser Turret trying to 'unmask its guns' from someone who'd otherwise be too close to shoot, so the higher PS turret bunnies might like it. It's good for avoiding arcs of fire, too.

My experiences with the Khiraxz suggest they benefit from post manouvre repositioning (Cobra specifically) and engine upgrade isn't as flexible, and they're not wedded to anything particular, so it may help with them a bit.

My experiences with the Khiraxz suggest they benefit from post manouvre repositioning (Cobra specifically) and engine upgrade isn't as flexible, and they're not wedded to anything particular, so it may help with them a bit.

Sounds likely. Expert Handling was very popular with elite X-wings when it first came out, and BB-8 has done much the same. Vector Thrust isn't as good - because it eats your action - but it's still cheap and pairing up barrel roll with the Khiraxz' access to a hard '1' turn makes for a nasty knife fighter (just ask any TIE swarm pilot!)

On other ships, A T-70 could in theory fit a comms relay to catch and keep the evade, but then you're spending 5 points (more than R2-D2) on something that doesn't trigger very often and bites into your firepower when you do, which doesn't strike me as an especially good deal.

On the FFG forums, someone pointed out that you can, in theory, stitch together R3 Astromech, Comms Relay, and Juke on a T-70.

Spending huge amounts of points on a Red Squadron Veteran seems foolish, and Poe Dameron is so utterly wedded to focus tokens and to R5-P9 that you'd need an earthshaking ability to consider swapping, but that might not be a bad pairing for Ello Asty.

If you target lock rather than focus, you've got a 1/3 chance of getting a free evade every time you fire, even if you don't "try" to get one. Ello's tendancy to talon roll means you should, in theory, be only being shot at by a few ships at a time, so evade tokens are a nice means of defending yourself, and you can still get a lock out after coming end-around.

I dunno. Ello's pilot skill is still low enough that the really dangerous people fire beforehand, so you've got to wait to set the shot up.

I don't think this is a great combination - you're paying the price of a heavy laser cannon for an ability which only triggers 1/3 of the time. If it triggers, then evade/juke is nice, and a very powerful thing on a normally not very elusive X-wing. But it's the best use I've seen suggested for the card.

If you are frequently up against something like Omega Leader or Carnor Jax, then R3 might be a "reasonable" way to make use of those eye results. R3 could also work with someone like Dutch Vander, who is more likely to Target Lock every turn rather than Focus. R3 might also have a use if you are firing a secondary weapon with "if this attack hits" or "perform this attack twice", as you might have unspent eyes on those attacks, especially if it requires a Target Lock, Deadeye, or the Target has low agility.

 Smacks wrote:
If you are frequently up against something like Omega Leader or Carnor Jax, then R3 might be a "reasonable" way to make use of those eye results.

Not really. You gain an evade token instead of an {eye} result you can't modify, but then you probably can't spend the evade token.

R3 could also work with someone like Dutch Vander, who is more likely to Target Lock every turn rather than Focus.

You can still re-roll {eye} results with a target lock, and you usually will. In fact, if you have a target lock you're probably less likely to consider that {eye} result "useless" and turn it into an evade token because there's no longer any question of whether you should spend the focus on offense or spend it for defense. If you have a TL on a ship that TLs every turn and don't have max hits already you always spend it.

R3 might also have a use if you are firing a secondary weapon with "if this attack hits" or "perform this attack twice", as you might have unspent eyes on those attacks, especially if it requires a Target Lock, Deadeye, or the Target has low agility.

It only works on primary weapon attacks, and only once per turn.

 Peregrine wrote:
You gain an evade token instead of an {eye} result you can't modify, but then you probably can't spend the evade token.

Yeah, I suppose against Carnor Jax that would always be true, unless your shot killed him. Less of an issue against Omega Leader, as you could still use it to defend against other ships.

R3 could also work with someone like Dutch Vander, who is more likely to Target Lock every turn rather than Focus.

You can still re-roll {eye} results with a target lock, and you usually will. In fact, if you have a target lock you're probably less likely to consider that {eye} result "useless" and turn it into an evade token because there's no longer any question of whether you should spend the focus on offense or spend it for defense. If you have a TL on a ship that TLs every turn and don't have max hits already you always spend it.

My point was that when you re-roll blanks and eyes using the target lock, you will sometimes roll more eyes which you then can't use.

It only works on primary weapon attacks.

So it does, my bad. It could still combine with something like the BTL-A4 Wing title, and save your focus for the second attack/defence. It might not be bad on a defensive build, if you planned to save your focus token for defence anyway, then you would potentially get an evade token to go with it.

The problem here is that none of these scenarios are consistent. You can come up with situations where everything goes right and an R3 gives you something, but you can't consistently do it. And that's what separates good pilots/upgrades from bad ones.

 Smacks wrote:
Less of an issue against Omega Leader, as you could still use it to defend against other ships.

But now you're well off into "if everything goes right" territory. You need to be attacking Omega Leader despite being locked, and you need to have a different lower-PS ship that wants to shoot at you. Could it happen? Yeah. Is it something you want to bring because you're facing OLeader a lot? No.

My point was that when you re-roll blanks and eyes using the target lock, you will sometimes roll more eyes which you then can't use.

Yes, you can re-roll into more {eye} results, but it's not at all reliable. And remember that Dutch also suffers badly from the primary weapon only limit given that the best way to use him is probably staying on the edge of the fight with a TLT. The list of ships that want to target lock a lot instead of focusing and make primary weapon attacks is very, very short.

So it does, my bad. It could still combine with something like the BTL-A4 Wing title, and save your focus for the second attack/defence.

It doesn't combine well at all with the A4 title. The most common A4 y-wing is already committed to R3-A2, and if you're treating the primary shot as a throwaway attack just to get an evade token then you might as well take a TLT instead and avoid damage by exploiting your 360* turret to stay out of arc of incoming fire. Finally, even if you're willing to set up the A4 "combo" you still run right into the consistency problem. Getting the evade token at all is unreliable, and getting a chance to use it is unreliable.

It might not be bad on a defensive build, if you planned to save your focus token for defence anyway, then you would potentially get an evade token to go with it.

There is no such thing as a "defensive build" on a y-wing, and you almost never want to save your focus for defense. There are defensive x-wing builds, but those all use regen droids that are much more effective than an R3.

Yes, you can re-roll into more {eye} results, but it's not at all reliable. And remember that Dutch also suffers badly from the primary weapon only limit given that the best way to use him is probably staying on the edge of the fight with a TLT. The list of ships that want to target lock a lot instead of focusing and make primary weapon attacks is very, very short.

With a 3-die primary, it's a bit more likely (I think something like 33% chance of getting a free evade?).

The problem is that for it to be worth it, you either need to be high enough pilot skill to get that evade token before your shot at, or need juke to use it offensively, or need to be able to hold onto it with a comms relay - possibly at least two of these, ideally all three.

Hence the only idea I've really had to use it is Juke/Comms/R3 on Ello or Juke/R3 on Wedge. Wedge shoots early and if Juke triggers it complement's wedges ability nicely. The evade token's defensive benefit is more of a bonus.

It's still not great; for 2 points I think giving Wedge BB-8 to use his high pilot skill to arc dodge (or at least arc-line-up-and-actually-get-a-shot), but it's less useless than on someone with only a 2-dice attack.

Nice catch on Omega Leader, by the way. It is a fringe benefit, but better than nothing.

And yes. R3's big problem is that it's not reliable. Even if you cancel a focus prior to rerolling with a target lock (if you have one) or cancel a rerolled focus result (if you get one) you're still only getting a focus about 75% of the time.

I guess it's nice for making you a bit tougher in K-turns. Getting a free evade during a K-turn is nice - the free target lock a targeting astromech would have got you is nicer, and you only get the evade ~60% of the time. But I guess you get the evade on other turns too. The problem, as you correctly put it, is that whilst you get the evade 60% of the time when you K-turn, and 30% of the time when you fire a target locked shot, that still leaves the potential to not get it on the one turn you really, really, really need it.

Okay, so I had a thought for a squadron featuring two of these puppies.

97/100
Biggs Darklighter w/ Shield Upgrade, R2-D2
Thrane Kyrell w/ R2-D6, Tail Gunner, Alliance Overhaul, Expose
Braylen Stramm w/ Elusiveness, R3 Astromech, Tailgunner, Alliance Overhaul

The idea is that Thrane Kyrell, against swarms, will be getting a decent number of dice added to his focused attack value because everyone HAS to shoot Biggs.
I didn't quite know what to slap on Braylen, but I thought having two two-seaters would be fun. I guess he could be exchanged for Tycho or something for about the same points since I am at 97 points.

The alternatives for Thrane's build would be:
- R2-F2 (Remember that card?) for a pointless increase in agility by a lot, but would be significantly cheaper.
- R5-D8 for a weird regeneration that won't be useful until Biggz is actually dead
- that's 'bout it.

Braylen's Alt:
- PTL (for what? vectored thrusters?)
- Lightning Reflexes?
- R3-A2?

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
The idea is that Thrane Kyrell, against swarms, will be getting a decent number of dice added to his focused attack value because everyone HAS to shoot Biggs.

You can only do an action once per turn.

Rest in Piece, hopes and dreams. I forgot free actions weren't like "acquiring a token".


What if we tone it down? Is there any modest builds for this? Does Expose see play here?




--------
So this is merely speculation, but I think I almost nailed the dial for the Arc-170 based on what we know.

What do I know for certain?
White 4 Straight, White 3 Banks/Forward, 6 Green 1-2s, Red K-Turn, 4/7 Red Maneuvers of 3+ speed

What do I think the dial is?
Speed 1-2: Green Banks/Straights
Speed 3: Red 90, White Banks/Straight
Speed 4: White Straight, Red K-Turn
Speed 5: Red Straight

Maybe it has 2 Hard Turns, since that would make sense for a "tight ship"? But if I take the preview literally, then it has 13 maneuvers.

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
What do I think the dial is?
Speed 1-2: Green Banks/Straights
Speed 3: Red 90, White Banks/Straight
Speed 4: White Straight, Red K-Turn
Speed 5: Red Straight

My guess would be:

Speed 1: straight (green), bank (green)
Speed 2: straight (green), bank (green), turn (white)
Speed 3: straight (white), bank (white), turn (red)
Speed 4: straight (red), k-turn (red)

Having no non-red turns is incredibly unlikely, and the "13 maneuvers" thing is not accurate (the dial says "six green maneuvers", not "six maneuvers, all green", it doesn't rule out white maneuvers in addition to the six). A 5-straight is not going to happen on a "slow" ship, even "normal" ships like the x-wing don't have a 5-straight at all. The only real surprises would be if it gets 1-turns (red or white), or if it gets t-rolls/s-loops instead of those red 3-turns (less likely IMO). Or, I suppose, if FFG is unexpectedly charitable and gives it green turns instead of the green 1-banks, but I'm not going to bet much on it.

As someone summed up after the dial has just been leaked, the ARC-170 drives like and Oldsmobile. I mean, an old person's car.

Oh look, I predicted the dial exactly.

Actual content: now that we've seen the dial, time to re-evaluate the pilots:

Braylen Stramm: definitely going to be a low-value pilot, other than being the cheapest possible option. The dial has enough green to clear stress the normal way fairly well, so all you're really getting is a 50% chance to clear R3-A2 stress with a 90* turn. But since you can't know if you're going to succeed until you're committed to your maneuver it's going to be kind of a risky option. You do in theory get a 50% chance of a white k-turn, but with a rear arc (and tail gunner) how often are you really going to be k-turning?

Thane Kyrell: still garbage. Dial helps nothing here.

Shara Bey and Nora Wexley: standing by my previous opinions. The green maneuvers for PTL aren't amazing, but they aren't crippling either. If you aren't using PTL it's going to be fine, everything you need (except an occasional k-turn) is green or white. So, no bump in opinion because of a great dial, but IMO they didn't lose anything either.

If you use the "gain an EPT" astromech for PTL and a Tactician as a crew, you might try the k-turn for a fully modifiable shot. Unless you roll like gak. Too risky.

If you do use the Tactician and R3-A2, does the stress stack?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
If you use the "gain an EPT" astromech for PTL and a Tactician as a crew, you might try the k-turn for a fully modifiable shot. Unless you roll like gak. Too risky.

Yeah, the risk is the problem. It's only a 50% chance of success, and you couldn't use PTL the turn before so that kind of gives away the plan.

If you do use the Tactician and R3-A2, does the stress stack?

Yes.

50% of the time, it works every time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One can dream:

Shara Bey (28)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Weapons Engineer (3)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Alliance Overhaul (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Push the Limit (3)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Poe Dameron (PS9) (33)
Push the Limit (3)
BB-8 (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Edited, wrong ARC pilot. Mommy and kiddo flying together.

If you do use the Tactician and R3-A2, does the stress stack?

It's one of the nice Astromech/Crew pairings that's unique to the ARC (at the moment). In theory it's not handing out any more stress than a BTL-A4 Y-wing with R3-A2, but the fighter itself is rather more capable at stuff other than handing out stress.

If you really wanted to prove a point, nothing stops you using your torpedo slot for Flechette Torpedoes, and throwing a third stress token into the mix.