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 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
We probably will never know for sure.

He does have a LinkedIn page, and if he intends to stay in the business world, he'll likely update it if he's out.

I mean we will never know why he left. If He was kicked out or left on his on.

 DalinCriid wrote:
Apologies for plunging into the thread without any relation to previous posts, but can you please guys enlighten me what's going on here:

Who is Merit? His booting is Good or no?

Merret is/was the head of Intellectual Property in GW. Based on his testimony in open court during the Chapterhouse case, he was not particularly qualified nor well-versed in what he was supposed to be in charge of. The mistakes he made were painfully clear even to laypeople, and were tantamount to taking your car to a mechanic and having him ask "so where do the horses hitch onto this thing?" In other words, it wasn't a mistake under pressure so much as a fundamental lack of understanding. He also uttered the much parroted line that in effect the favorite hobby of GW customers was buying GW products; not building or painting or gaming or anything social, just buying them.

He was widely reviled for what was seen as GW's "bullying" IP enforcement as it would be under the purview of his nominal department, and combined with his inadequacies in court would make most of his critics say that his departure would be a good thing.

 DalinCriid wrote:
Who is Kirby? Was he a bad a thing and is he finally being booted from GW?

Kirby is the Chairman of the Board of Directors as GW is a publicly traded company, and for a long time was the "interim" CEO as well. Most feel he was responsible for most of GW's anti-consumer, pro-shareholder policies where profits and dividends were the priority to the detriment of basic business fundamentals if need be. That GW would borrow money to pay out a larger dividend some years is held up as evidence quite frequently. Given that he effectively had unchecked power as both Chairman and CEO, it's hard to argue that he didn't have the lion's share of responsibility for what GW has done for the past four or five years. He seemed to have a very strange outlook on the market with such remarks as "pokemon being a phase" and other comments in the annual report that often left market analysts...amused.

There's some ill-will about GW's new website costing in the millions of pounds while his wife was the project manager with little to no verifiable IT or PM experience. This lends credence to the theory that he was basically trying to get as much cash out of his stock options for his retirement as possible. However, "the website" could also have been larger back-end improvements not readily apparent to the general public. He later stepped down from being CEO with the appointment of Kevin Rountree, but still retains his position on the board.

 DalinCriid wrote:
IF he is kicked why their income is still 118 mil and last year was 119 when he was still there.

GW has a very long product pipeline. Even with their in-house manufacturing making some things much faster, you're looking at things being planned out roughly 12-18 months in advance. There's some wiggle room to shuffle things forward and back a bit, but for most part GW already knows what it's doing for December of 2017. Thus when Kirby finally steps down, there's a long period where the things that are still his ideas are coming out. Betrayal at Calth on a product level was likely Kirby's doing, but Rountree was likely why it cost $150 rather than $250 or even $350 (Kirby was notorious for never offering any discount of any kind). Most people credit Rountree with the new lower-priced "bulk buy" model of boxed games and "Start Collecting!" sets as an end-around of Kirby's crowing to investors that GW doesn't lower prices.

The truth likely lies somewhere in-between, as it's not like Kirby exerts no control over the company anymore.

 DalinCriid wrote:
One last question, when actually its counted the annual Income? The year is not finished yet.

GW's financial year runs from May to May of any given year I believe. Thus for GW's financial year, we are coming up on the second quarter.

I hope that Rountree can restore the faith of some people like me. I buy them, I paint them, I game with them, but I don't buy the from GW, I buy the pm from Amazon, EBay, and the hobby liquidator store around the corner.

 Krinsath wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:
Apologies for plunging into the thread without any relation to previous posts, but can you please guys enlighten me what's going on here:

Who is Merit? His booting is Good or no?

Merret is/was the head of Intellectual Property in GW. Based on his testimony in open court during the Chapterhouse case, he was not particularly qualified nor well-versed in what he was supposed to be in charge of. The mistakes he made were painfully clear even to laypeople, and were tantamount to taking your car to a mechanic and having him ask "so where do the horses hitch onto this thing?" In other words, it wasn't a mistake under pressure so much as a fundamental lack of understanding. He also uttered the much parroted line that in effect the favorite hobby of GW customers was buying GW products; not building or painting or gaming or anything social, just buying them.

He was widely reviled for what was seen as GW's "bullying" IP enforcement as it would be under the purview of his nominal department, and combined with his inadequacies in court would make most of his critics say that his departure would be a good thing.

 DalinCriid wrote:
Who is Kirby? Was he a bad a thing and is he finally being booted from GW?

Kirby is the Chairman of the Board of Directors as GW is a publicly traded company, and for a long time was the "interim" CEO as well. Most feel he was responsible for most of GW's anti-consumer, pro-shareholder policies where profits and dividends were the priority to the detriment of basic business fundamentals if need be. That GW would borrow money to pay out a larger dividend some years is held up as evidence quite frequently. Given that he effectively had unchecked power as both Chairman and CEO, it's hard to argue that he didn't have the lion's share of responsibility for what GW has done for the past four or five years. He seemed to have a very strange outlook on the market with such remarks as "pokemon being a phase" and other comments in the annual report that often left market analysts...amused.

There's some ill-will about GW's new website costing in the millions of pounds while his wife was the project manager with little to no verifiable IT or PM experience. This lends credence to the theory that he was basically trying to get as much cash out of his stock options for his retirement as possible. However, "the website" could also have been larger back-end improvements not readily apparent to the general public. He later stepped down from being CEO with the appointment of Kevin Rountree, but still retains his position on the board.

 DalinCriid wrote:
IF he is kicked why their income is still 118 mil and last year was 119 when he was still there.

GW has a very long product pipeline. Even with their in-house manufacturing making some things much faster, you're looking at things being planned out roughly 12-18 months in advance. There's some wiggle room to shuffle things forward and back a bit, but for most part GW already knows what it's doing for December of 2017. Thus when Kirby finally steps down, there's a long period where the things that are still his ideas are coming out. Betrayal at Calth on a product level was likely Kirby's doing, but Rountree was likely why it cost $150 rather than $250 or even $350 (Kirby was notorious for never offering any discount of any kind). Most people credit Rountree with the new lower-priced "bulk buy" model of boxed games and "Start Collecting!" sets as an end-around of Kirby's crowing to investors that GW doesn't lower prices.

The truth likely lies somewhere in-between, as it's not like Kirby exerts no control over the company anymore.

 DalinCriid wrote:
One last question, when actually its counted the annual Income? The year is not finished yet.

GW's financial year runs from May to May of any given year I believe. Thus for GW's financial year, we are coming up on the second quarter.

Whoah, thanks for answering absolutely correctly to my questions. I was absolutely noob about who is who in GW politics. That Kirby guy sure have some philosophy on his own, but I really don't understand him. However, from you told me it seems that the things are only getting slightly better for GW but not much. About the website... last time I checked their annual reports the site was..... 4 Billion Pounds! This is something so insane that won't even happen in my country.

 DalinCriid wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:
Apologies for plunging into the thread without any relation to previous posts, but can you please guys enlighten me what's going on here:

Who is Merit? His booting is Good or no?

Merret is/was the head of Intellectual Property in GW. Based on his testimony in open court during the Chapterhouse case, he was not particularly qualified nor well-versed in what he was supposed to be in charge of. The mistakes he made were painfully clear even to laypeople, and were tantamount to taking your car to a mechanic and having him ask "so where do the horses hitch onto this thing?" In other words, it wasn't a mistake under pressure so much as a fundamental lack of understanding. He also uttered the much parroted line that in effect the favorite hobby of GW customers was buying GW products; not building or painting or gaming or anything social, just buying them.

He was widely reviled for what was seen as GW's "bullying" IP enforcement as it would be under the purview of his nominal department, and combined with his inadequacies in court would make most of his critics say that his departure would be a good thing.

 DalinCriid wrote:
Who is Kirby? Was he a bad a thing and is he finally being booted from GW?

Kirby is the Chairman of the Board of Directors as GW is a publicly traded company, and for a long time was the "interim" CEO as well. Most feel he was responsible for most of GW's anti-consumer, pro-shareholder policies where profits and dividends were the priority to the detriment of basic business fundamentals if need be. That GW would borrow money to pay out a larger dividend some years is held up as evidence quite frequently. Given that he effectively had unchecked power as both Chairman and CEO, it's hard to argue that he didn't have the lion's share of responsibility for what GW has done for the past four or five years. He seemed to have a very strange outlook on the market with such remarks as "pokemon being a phase" and other comments in the annual report that often left market analysts...amused.

There's some ill-will about GW's new website costing in the millions of pounds while his wife was the project manager with little to no verifiable IT or PM experience. This lends credence to the theory that he was basically trying to get as much cash out of his stock options for his retirement as possible. However, "the website" could also have been larger back-end improvements not readily apparent to the general public. He later stepped down from being CEO with the appointment of Kevin Rountree, but still retains his position on the board.

 DalinCriid wrote:
IF he is kicked why their income is still 118 mil and last year was 119 when he was still there.

GW has a very long product pipeline. Even with their in-house manufacturing making some things much faster, you're looking at things being planned out roughly 12-18 months in advance. There's some wiggle room to shuffle things forward and back a bit, but for most part GW already knows what it's doing for December of 2017. Thus when Kirby finally steps down, there's a long period where the things that are still his ideas are coming out. Betrayal at Calth on a product level was likely Kirby's doing, but Rountree was likely why it cost $150 rather than $250 or even $350 (Kirby was notorious for never offering any discount of any kind). Most people credit Rountree with the new lower-priced "bulk buy" model of boxed games and "Start Collecting!" sets as an end-around of Kirby's crowing to investors that GW doesn't lower prices.

The truth likely lies somewhere in-between, as it's not like Kirby exerts no control over the company anymore.

 DalinCriid wrote:
One last question, when actually its counted the annual Income? The year is not finished yet.

GW's financial year runs from May to May of any given year I believe. Thus for GW's financial year, we are coming up on the second quarter.

Whoah, thanks for answering absolutely correctly to my questions. I was absolutely noob about who is who in GW politics. That Kirby guy sure have some philosophy on his own, but I really don't understand him. However, from you told me it seems that the things are only getting slightly better for GW but not much. About the website... last time I checked their annual reports the site was..... 4 Billion Pounds! This is something so insane that won't even happen in my country.

Million, not billion. However, 4 million pounds is still ludicrous. Whoever the design studio was, they really saw GW coming when they gave them that quote.

Kirby was also in charge of the second management buyout of GW, many years ago. The first was Bryan Ansell buying out Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson, the second was Kirby buying out Ansell a few years later.

As much as people might hate it, many of the years that people think of as "the golden period" of GW actually happened with Kirby at the helm. The shift towards less consumer-friendly practices started with Ansell, continued to increase slowly under Kirby, but really took on a life of it's own in the last decade or so - particularly the last 5 or so years.

 Azazelx wrote:
The shift towards less consumer-friendly practices started with Ansell, continued to increase slowly under Kirby, but really took on a life of it's own in the last decade or so - particularly the last 5 or so years.

... still under Kirby. Please don't try and diminish his role in this.

 Azazelx wrote:
As much as people might hate it, many of the years that people think of as "the golden period" of GW actually happened with Kirby at the helm. The shift towards less consumer-friendly practices started with Ansell, continued to increase slowly under Kirby, but really took on a life of it's own in the last decade or so - particularly the last 5 or so years.

This is why I think the LOTR bubble bursting truly took him by surprise. That a sudden shift from profit making into loss making after all those record sales levels (and record pay for Kirby, his bonuses got him on lists of most overpaid CEOs in the financial press at the time) and the scramble to cut costs, close offices, shuffle production and so on has left a mark on GW.

The "golden age" worked. Army sizes were manageable and there were loads of on-ramps into being their customer. Prices were still nicely high, but GW was satisfied with the margins and earnings per share of a manufacturer and distributor rather than trying to capture it all with more and more direct sales. They operated some stores and mail order, but sold their entire produce line through normal distribution channels and didn't try to tell the independent stores how to sell their product or what they had to buy. Kirby touts the shift to controlling distribution as one of the best moves he ever made, but it also caused them major, major problems when the LOTR bubble popped and suddenly they had this monstrous distribution infrastructure and insufficient volume to justify it.

In a way there are elements of "golden age" in Age of Sigmar. Rountree specifically talked about making more products that make sense at lower price points (and we have seen lower character costs and start collecting bundles actually being at a discount).

I still maintain though that GW needs a complete customer experience review. And not one of the customer experience of their sales process or retail experience, but of their products. During all stages of involvement. Including game play. Including painting. Including army planning and collecting. Unbound in 40k and Age of Sigmar's approach has allowed GW store employees to sell pretty much every release to every customer, but I get the sense that people prefer to stick to one faction rather than buying everything and just putting it on the table regardless of whether or not it makes sense. Age of Sigmar is starting to address this as things coalesce into Order, Chaos, Death and Destruction.

Another issue: Injection plastic moulding has a really low marginal cost per sprue and a higher cost in design and tooling for the initial set up. It's a mass production technology where the cost per unit sold goes down the more GW sells. One major issue is that they have intentionally gone for lower volumes and for higher prices. Sure, this saves them money on packaging and distribution costs, but it also denies them the key strategic strength of the technology. Start Collecting is a step in the right direction here, but if it just cannibalizes sales from their full price range then they'll just get worse margins and not necessarily a corresponding increase in revenue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
The shift towards less consumer-friendly practices started with Ansell, continued to increase slowly under Kirby, but really took on a life of it's own in the last decade or so - particularly the last 5 or so years.

... still under Kirby. Please don't try and diminish his role in this.

I'm not sure what you're on about? We all know that Kirby has only been in a diminished role recently. To suggest that I was trying to imply that Kirby has had a "diminished role" in the last 5 years of GW being more and more consumer-unfriendly is insulting to me and everyone reading this thread.

My only point was that GW started with unfriendly practices under Ansell, and that GW under Kirby also provided us with many of the golden years, including 40k 3rd edition, Paul Sawyer's much-beloved reign on WD and so on - and it's been in more recent years when he's doubled-down much more severely on the unpleasantness and delusional policies. People like to canonise Ansell (and now Rountree) and demonise Kirby and Merett, but the truth is it's not that simple and both the decline and improvements are much more gradual. As good as Calth, Start Collecting, etc are, I still wouldn't be buying them if I didn't have workarounds from AU pricing, and until this revival of a year or so ago began, I hadn't bought any GW-proper products in quite some time. (FW and eBay being the exceptions)

 Azazelx wrote:
Kirby was also in charge of the second management buyout of GW, many years ago. The first was Bryan Ansell buying out Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson, the second was Kirby buying out Ansell a few years later.

As much as people might hate it, many of the years that people think of as "the golden period" of GW actually happened with Kirby at the helm. The shift towards less consumer-friendly practices started with Ansell, continued to increase slowly under Kirby, but really took on a life of it's own in the last decade or so - particularly the last 5 or so years.

This is correct. Kirby may have his detractors for many things but you can not argue with what GW is on the global market. Tom was at the helm good and bad of that for the better part of what, 20 years? How many miniature games and or companies are still around and any where near GW's market share? The "Age of Rountree" is here but the Era of Kirby got GW to this point. He has passed the proverbial baton and Kevin is off to the races with it for sure. I for one am excited for where the company is going. Every one has , and is entitled, to their opinion on this but you have to take the good with the bad and be able to separate the business from the hobby, that's the trick that some people can not grasp. GW was and still is the most dominant and valuable IP in the miniatures game, that is fact and it was Kirby who go it there. Lets see what Kevin can do, so far so good!

I've also pointed out on other forums that there are other plastic molds that have been in use for decades, yet GW apparently can't milk one for a minimum of 10 years? There are several root Troop/Core boxed sets that got completely resculpted with a brand new mold when the first version was more than serviceable. Things like that add to the ridiculously high cost of minis. And be fair, did the Marine sprue getting remolded REALLY add anything that couldn't have been done on one simple add on sprue?

You messed up your quotes - I wasn't talking about injection moulding plastic. That was frozenwastes

frozenwastes wrote:

Sure, this saves them money on packaging.

I worked in the packaging business for twenty plus years and going from the blister with the card back to a clam shell with paper backing was a up cost .. not a cost savings..
For years I thought they could save money on packaging by going to a simpler pack like they did at one of the games day with a pouch type bag. But the sales guy I knew
that tried to contact them said he was stone walled... couldn't even get a meeting.. US vs UK thing I guess, even though the company I worked for was global..
Reduced packaging could save them a small fortune but they have to be smart about it and talk to someone in the packaging business not the game business..

lliu wrote:
I hope that Rountree can restore the faith of some people like me. I buy them, I paint them, I game with them, but I don't buy the from GW, I buy the pm from Amazon, EBay, and the hobby liquidator store around the corner.

So you support th company in every way except actually buying their products from them? Ever wonder why they hardened down on sales channels and had to squeeze every penny they could?

Merrett was around under Ansell as well as Kirby, wasn't he? He's probably made enough money to comfortably retire to his estate with the space marine shaped swimming pool.

Genoside07 wrote:

frozenwastes wrote:

Sure, this saves them money on packaging.

I worked in the packaging business for twenty plus years and going from the blister with the card back to a clam shell with paper backing was a up cost .. not a cost savings..
For years I thought they could save money on packaging by going to a simpler pack like they did at one of the games day with a pouch type bag. But the sales guy I knew
that tried to contact them said he was stone walled... couldn't even get a meeting.. US vs UK thing I guess, even though the company I worked for was global..
Reduced packaging could save them a small fortune but they have to be smart about it and talk to someone in the packaging business not the game business..

Sorry, I meant packaging and distribution. And staff and all the other cost savings that go along with moving less products. My larger point was about the savings of doing less volume at a higher price per unit.

Interesting stuff about the clam shells though, card backs and pouches though. I've worked with some smaller companies and things like packaging choices can become people's pet issues. I could totally see whoever the head of product development is not wanting to have their decision 2nd guessed.

I've just heard it from another grapevine, so I think it would appear to be official. An additional scrap I heard is that he's retiring, as opposed to re-entering the workplace.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:


Merrett was around under Ansell as well as Kirby, wasn't he? He's probably made enough money to comfortably retire to his estate with the space marine shaped swimming pool.

They were both around under Ansell. Kirby and Merett are/were both very old-time GW employees.

Kirby was at TSR UK before GW, and even wrote modules. He was one of, if not the first to go from TSR-UK to GW, back in 86 or so.
http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com.au/2013_10_01_archive.html
http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/chaos-scribe-interview-with-mike-brunton.html

Also from the same interview with Mike Brunton, about the old days:

...Tom Kirby, long before he was GW supremo, was a regular and very good DM at the same club.

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/chaos-scribe-interview-with-mike-brunton.html

The same man, but a very different man back in the day.

Orlygg has a huge man-crush on Ansell, and can't get past the rose-coloured "oldhammer" glasses of his youth (EVRYTHING WAS BETTER THEN) but gets some good info. Seems that GorkaMorka (which many were indifferent to) and ManOWar were "Kirby's babies".
http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/living-in-box-big-box-games-1988-92.html









Automatically Appended Next Post:

frozenwastes wrote:

Genoside07 wrote:

frozenwastes wrote:

Sure, this saves them money on packaging.

I worked in the packaging business for twenty plus years and going from the blister with the card back to a clam shell with paper backing was a up cost .. not a cost savings..
For years I thought they could save money on packaging by going to a simpler pack like they did at one of the games day with a pouch type bag. But the sales guy I knew
that tried to contact them said he was stone walled... couldn't even get a meeting.. US vs UK thing I guess, even though the company I worked for was global..
Reduced packaging could save them a small fortune but they have to be smart about it and talk to someone in the packaging business not the game business..

Sorry, I meant packaging and distribution. And staff and all the other cost savings that go along with moving less products. My larger point was about the savings of doing less volume at a higher price per unit.

Interesting stuff about the clam shells though, card backs and pouches though. I've worked with some smaller companies and things like packaging choices can become people's pet issues. I could totally see whoever the head of product development is not wanting to have their decision 2nd guessed.

I work as a manager of sorts with an area of specific responsibility in a reasonable-sized organisation. We (and I) pretty regularly have salespeople wanting a meeting or cold-calling and trying to tell us why the thing they're trying to sell us is a great idea that will save us money in the long run, or why we/I should change our system from this thing to that thing (which they happen to be selling). Sometimes we do, choose or stay with things because we're happy with them or we like them or they work for us or they fit a particular aesthetic. Regardless of why some salesman would love to tell us why we're wrong and their way is better.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

lliu wrote:
I hope that Rountree can restore the faith of some people like me. I buy them, I paint them, I game with them, but I don't buy the from GW, I buy the pm from Amazon, EBay, and the hobby liquidator store around the corner.

So you support th company in every way except actually buying their products from them? Ever wonder why they hardened down on sales channels and had to squeeze every penny they could?

Merrett was around under Ansell as well as Kirby, wasn't he? He's probably made enough money to comfortably retire to his estate with the space marine shaped swimming pool.

Well... I bought a Tervigon and an Interrogator Chaplain from GW cause I felt bad, but yup, that's it.

Kirby probably came up with some really, uh, "interesting" scenarios if his preambles are anything to go by If plastic SoBs ever come out I will credit it to the leaving of Merett. Irrational, maybe, but I'll allow myself this bit of pettiness.


I hope that GW can -and wants to- attract new talent for its design team. Probably burned too many bridges with their old crew. But the rumour of "skirmish Aos" (I thought Aos was supposes to be a skirmish system scaling up?) and FW reviving SGs and maybe a decent 40k reboot one day ...would be great if those games turn out good. Slightly less crazy prices gets me to buy again, but only piece meal for small warbands and Kill Teams and kitbashes display pieces. For me to plan an actual army again more has to happen.

 Captain Vyper wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Kirby was also in charge of the second management buyout of GW, many years ago. The first was Bryan Ansell buying out Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson, the second was Kirby buying out Ansell a few years later.

As much as people might hate it, many of the years that people think of as "the golden period" of GW actually happened with Kirby at the helm. The shift towards less consumer-friendly practices started with Ansell, continued to increase slowly under Kirby, but really took on a life of it's own in the last decade or so - particularly the last 5 or so years.

This is correct. Kirby may have his detractors for many things but you can not argue with what GW is on the global market. Tom was at the helm good and bad of that for the better part of what, 20 years? How many miniature games and or companies are still around and any where near GW's market share? The "Age of Rountree" is here but the Era of Kirby got GW to this point. He has passed the proverbial baton and Kevin is off to the races with it for sure. I for one am excited for where the company is going. Every one has , and is entitled, to their opinion on this but you have to take the good with the bad and be able to separate the business from the hobby, that's the trick that some people can not grasp. GW was and still is the most dominant and valuable IP in the miniatures game, that is fact and it was Kirby who go it there. Lets see what Kevin can do, so far so good!

But how much of the "good" under Kirby was because of Kirby, or in spite of him? Many other people have come and gone from GW over the years, and how much of GW's successes (and failures) is due to their contributions?

Succes, like failure, always floats up. That's just the way it is. It just so happens that the policies mark the failures, and so the failures go up.

 kronk wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
What a load. You can walk into a GW now and buy a playable army for 40k or WFB for 50 quid, they do those brilliant start collecting sets.

You're forgetting rulebook and codex in your price.

And paint! And Primer! And Dice! And something to carry your gak in!

And Time.
Why the prepainted Star Wars minis cost more and are still being snapped up. (Personally, I can't stand prepainted minis.... But for me painting minis is part of the fun - for Little Timmy?)

The Auld Grump

Do they?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Captain Vyper wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Kirby was also in charge of the second management buyout of GW, many years ago. The first was Bryan Ansell buying out Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson, the second was Kirby buying out Ansell a few years later.

As much as people might hate it, many of the years that people think of as "the golden period" of GW actually happened with Kirby at the helm. The shift towards less consumer-friendly practices started with Ansell, continued to increase slowly under Kirby, but really took on a life of it's own in the last decade or so - particularly the last 5 or so years.

This is correct. Kirby may have his detractors for many things but you can not argue with what GW is on the global market. Tom was at the helm good and bad of that for the better part of what, 20 years? How many miniature games and or companies are still around and any where near GW's market share? The "Age of Rountree" is here but the Era of Kirby got GW to this point. He has passed the proverbial baton and Kevin is off to the races with it for sure. I for one am excited for where the company is going. Every one has , and is entitled, to their opinion on this but you have to take the good with the bad and be able to separate the business from the hobby, that's the trick that some people can not grasp. GW was and still is the most dominant and valuable IP in the miniatures game, that is fact and it was Kirby who go it there. Lets see what Kevin can do, so far so good!

But how much of the "good" under Kirby was because of Kirby, or in spite of him? Many other people have come and gone from GW over the years, and how much of GW's successes (and failures) is due to their contributions?

My point is merely that it's not useful to try and turn Kirby into some kind of cartoon villain. Your question is obviously unanswerable in any detail, but obviously all of that "good" was allowed to happen under Kirby, so you could argue that it's all on him. Because people are happy to do the same regarding the bad, after all....

After following the Chapter House case, my opinion of Merett is less than stellar.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

"Mat, how are we ever going to win this case?"
"Do you remember that Bloodtide story in the 5th edition GK codex?"
"Unfortu-Uh, yes..."
"Good. Get me a group of lawyers, a blender, and a paintbrush. I'm gonna make us some Wards."

I laughed so much harder at this than I should have.

MadCowCrazy wrote: I want to create an armies on parade board with Adepta Sororitas slaughtering GKs, the board would be named : "Where's your Ward save now?!"

This too

 Azazelx wrote:


My point is merely that it's not useful to try and turn Kirby into some kind of cartoon villain. Your question is obviously unanswerable in any detail, but obviously all of that "good" was allowed to happen under Kirby, so you could argue that it's all on him. Because people are happy to do the same regarding the bad, after all....

One could say Ansell made GW and WHFB/40k a brand and Kirby a larger company that had the capability to expand worldwide, get such an audience, produce that many (and many good) miniatures, get the LotR licence and so on. I agree, there're always two sides to view.

Now - any news about Merett?

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:


My point is merely that it's not useful to try and turn Kirby into some kind of cartoon villain. Your question is obviously unanswerable in any detail, but obviously all of that "good" was allowed to happen under Kirby, so you could argue that it's all on him. Because people are happy to do the same regarding the bad, after all....

One could say Ansell made GW and WHFB/40k a brand and Kirby a larger company that had the capability to expand worldwide, get such an audience, produce that many (and many good) miniatures, get the LotR licence and so on. I agree, there're always two sides to view.

Now - any news about Merett?

Nope. This thread is the only "source" out there. I tried several search engines and websites, and nothing but this thread shows up. His linkedin profile and facebook profile are unchanged.

Never feed the trolls.

 russian69hitman wrote:

Nope. This thread is the only "source" out there. I tried several search engines and websites, and nothing but this thread shows up. His linkedin profile and facebook profile are unchanged.

Never feed the trolls.

Just as a note.

I think I was the first to mention this over in the Mat Ward thread.

The person who initially gave the news is someone who would be in a good place to hear.

After I posted, I went to Cornwall (deepest darkest UK ) and had no net access for a week, so couldn't follow it up.

I have since tried to confirm with a second source who would be 100% in a position to know for sure, but they ain't talking, which is fair enough as they have no reason to confirm/deny either way.

I'm a qualified journalist, so fully believe in keeping sources undisclosed when required, so can't really say more than that, other than I am no troll. Note, my user name is my actual name too, and you can probably work out pretty easily who I am from my limited posting, so its not really worth me making crap up and running away on the net. I have no need to increase my E-Peen on a gamer forum

Now, this may prove to be Chinese whispers for sure, and if so, fair enough, I can handle that, but it seemed a pretty huge bit of news to me, hence me passing it on. Sadly I cannot get that second
verification as yet to prove/disprove fully, but I am sure it will all come out in time either way.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

But how much of the "good" under Kirby was because of Kirby, or in spite of him? Many other people have come and gone from GW over the years, and how much of GW's successes (and failures) is due to their contributions?

It's why, although I blamed a lot on him initially, I've come to recognize that Kirby just drifted among the clouds at too high an altitude to be directly influencing so much of what's had my ire, hobby wise and litigation wise over the last 15 years, and that that must therefore rest upon the shoulders of one Alan Merrett, who seems to have been the scheming grand vizier to an egotistical but fairly distant Sultan Kirby.

All Kirby would have been concerned about was sales and share value, the execution, on a day to day and policy, I think was all Merrett and, possibly, a small cabal of his yesmen.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

But how much of the "good" under Kirby was because of Kirby, or in spite of him? Many other people have come and gone from GW over the years, and how much of GW's successes (and failures) is due to their contributions?

It's why, although I blamed a lot on him initially, I've come to recognize that Kirby just drifted among the clouds at too high an altitude to be directly influencing so much of what's had my ire, hobby wise and litigation wise over the last 15 years, and that that must therefore rest upon the shoulders of one Alan Merrett, who seems to have been the scheming grand vizier to an egotistical but fairly distant Sultan Kirby.

All Kirby would have been concerned about was sales and share value, the execution, on a day to day and policy, I think was all Merrett and, possibly, a small cabal of his yesmen.

Looking back at what I wrote, and what I was thinking, is that I think I was trying to say that when you look back at who was there in GW's golden age and who was there during GW's "fall", Kirby and Merett are among the few constants.