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Ridiculous. As was pointed out, Merrett was mostly a curator. Horus Heresy goes back to Rogue Trader days and I don't ever remember seeing Merrett listed as design studio staff. Big deal, he has his name on an art book. The dude, like Kirby seemed to harm the hobby rather than help it. Case in point, the Chapterhouse lawsuit and his obvious disdain for the customer base. It's nice to see GW mixing things up and cleaning house. Maybe it will lead to better things.
He wrote the book. He's the lorekeeper of the Heresy. That tweet mentioned early has the BL editor saying we have the HH because of him. But of course it wasn't Allan alone. The 3 GWs all work together.
As for stories about what he may or may not have done in GW, who knows. We never will.
co-host weekly wargaming podcast Combat Phase
on iTunes or www.combatphase.com
Do you have a copy? The amount of actual writing in it is pretty minimal.
He's the lorekeeper of the Heresy.
Weird that you are prepared to accept that when his official title was Head Of IP. Yet when it comes to repeated and consistent stories from multiple sources about all the negative gak he was supposedly involved in we get
As for stories about what he may or may not have done in GW, who knows. We never will.
So if someone says he was was responsible for something positive, it is unquestionably correct (and not the least PR spin - nobody ever said something they didn't mean about someone in public, despite privately harbouring incredibly opposing views privately, eh?) but all the stuff that comes out from all sorts of unconnected sources will forever remain the subject of myth and legend?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/30 23:26:38
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
VeteranNoob wrote: He wrote the book. He's the lorekeeper of the Heresy. That tweet mentioned early has the BL editor saying we have the HH because of him. But of course it wasn't Allan alone. The 3 GWs all work together.
As for stories about what he may or may not have done in GW, who knows. We never will.
Just checked my Slaves to Darkness book, where the Horus Heresy is mentioned for the first time. He is not credited with any sort of contribution. More likely, the guy has an over-inflated opinion of himself and is taking credit for the work of others. Head of IP does not mean "creator of everything". I think Az pretty much nailed it.
Is this the same as Collected Visions? Because in the later part of this whole text passages from Bill King were used or edited slightly - and he isn't even mentioned in the credits. Speaks for itself.
Food for thought, Collected Visions/Book IV did include this snippet of praise:
"In 2002, Sabretooth Games proposed an idea to Games Worksop about doing a special mega battle box that focused on the final battle of the Horus Heresy for our Warhammer 40,000 Collectible Card Game. But rather than just the final battle, Alan Merrett suggested we tell the entire story of the Horus Heresy, from the moment Horus betrayed the Emperor until the end of the Heresy.
The Horus Heresy is the Holy Grail of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, and a massive amount of research was done initally to catalogue every piece of information ever written about it. I had several meetings with Alan Merrett and John Blanche to review everything. Just to think, ten years ago I was debating what happened during the Horus Heresy with my friends and now I was with two of the most talented guys in the industry getting to decide what really did happen!
Three years and several expansions later and the rest, as they say, is history. I can guarantee that everyone who worked so hard on this will never forget the experience. I must give special thanks to Alan Merrett, without whom none of this would be possible."
Steve Horvath
CEO, Sabertooth Games
The base set of the CCG - and as a result a decent chunk of the artbook - covered the traitor/loyalist war on Isstvan III which many regard as a core part of the Heresy, but it simply didn't exist *before* the CCG, so it would appear he had at least some influence on what the modern Heresy is.
Gashrog wrote: Food for thought, Collected Visions/Book IV did include this snippet of praise:
"In 2002, Sabretooth Games proposed an idea to Games Worksop about doing a special mega battle box that focused on the final battle of the Horus Heresy for our Warhammer 40,000 Collectible Card Game. But rather than just the final battle, Alan Merrett suggested we tell the entire story of the Horus Heresy, from the moment Horus betrayed the Emperor until the end of the Heresy.
The Horus Heresy is the Holy Grail of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, and a massive amount of research was done initally to catalogue every piece of information ever written about it. I had several meetings with Alan Merrett and John Blanche to review everything. Just to think, ten years ago I was debating what happened during the Horus Heresy with my friends and now I was with two of the most talented guys in the industry getting to decide what really did happen!
Three years and several expansions later and the rest, as they say, is history. I can guarantee that everyone who worked so hard on this will never forget the experience. I must give special thanks to Alan Merrett, without whom none of this would be possible."
Steve Horvath
CEO, Sabertooth Games
The base set of the CCG - and as a result a decent chunk of the artbook - covered the traitor/loyalist war on Isstvan III which many regard as a core part of the Heresy, but it simply didn't exist *before* the CCG, so it would appear he had at least some influence on what the modern Heresy is.
It was mentioned in the first Epic space marine game
Spoiler:
"you realize that you are preaching mutiny?" Brother Captain Tarvitz nodded gravely. "betray Horus or betray the Emperor. What choice is there?" The Space marine officers looked at each other in silence for a few seconds. Tarvitz leaned forward across the table, resting on his fists.
"Fact: in five Chapters under his command, Horus has installed this system of feral-world warrior lodges that he picked up on Davin. The standard Imperial organizations and command structures laid down in the Codex have been completely disregarded."
"Fact: the bulk of the Marines in our five Chapters have repudiated their Marine's oath and sworn loyalty to the feral worlds deities. Further, they have sworn loyalty to Horus personally. Heresy and blasphemy."
"Fact: the Isstvan campaign has been conducted without even the pretence of orders from Terra. While I do not presume to speak for the Emperor, I cannot believe that the use of a virus bomb on Isstvan III was justifiable. A single Company from a single Chapter dropped on the rebel headquarters would have answered the case."
"I say the Emperor must know what is happening here. Who is with me? Varren? What say the World Eaters?" A red uniformed officer stood."
"There are fifteen man I can trust. They are yours."
"Garro?" A Captain of the Death guards looked up."
"A dozen. I wish it were more."
"Ten from the Luna Wolves."
"Twenty from the Thousand Sons."
"Be sure they are all trustworthy. If you have the slightest doubt, do not commit them. Of my own Emperor's Children, there are ten I am sure of, including myself." There was a pause as the paucity of their force sunk in.
"Seventy Marines," said Brother Captain Varren of the World Eaters, "the sum of our five Chapter numbers -a good omen, perhaps?" A couple smiled, and the tension of the moment was broken. "Seventy Marines." repeated Tarvitz. "Enough for any task, I think. So, to work. Varren, your men will seize control of the frigate Eisenstein in three hours from now. It is on the edge of the fleet, and should be clear for the jump to Warp Space." Varren nodded.
"The Eisenstein has been having maneuver-drive trouble." he said, with exaggerated innocence. "She's been falling behind the fleet all day." Tarvitz grinned.
"Good. The rest of us will arrange for our ships to lag behind with her in case of ...further trouble with the drives. Three hours from now, we will all assemble full crew for an emergency briefing. Meanwhile, our trusted men take control of the systems on all five ships. Clear all remaining ships from around the Eisenstein and keep her covered until she makes the jump to Warp Space. Then Cause as much damage as you can to the rest of the fleet. History will vindicate us."
He turned to Varren. "Your World Eaters are our only hope," he said, " Do not fail." Varren's eyes became serious. "We cannot fail," he said, "There is too much at stake. your deaths will be avenged."
(Note: this was taken from the rulebook of the first Epic game space marine).
It was mentioned in the first Epic space marine game
Spoiler:
"you realize that you are preaching mutiny?" Brother Captain Tarvitz nodded gravely. "betray Horus or betray the Emperor. What choice is there?" The Space marine officers looked at each other in silence for a few seconds. Tarvitz leaned forward across the table, resting on his fists.
"Fact: in five Chapters under his command, Horus has installed this system of feral-world warrior lodges that he picked up on Davin. The standard Imperial organizations and command structures laid down in the Codex have been completely disregarded."
"Fact: the bulk of the Marines in our five Chapters have repudiated their Marine's oath and sworn loyalty to the feral worlds deities. Further, they have sworn loyalty to Horus personally. Heresy and blasphemy."
"Fact: the Isstvan campaign has been conducted without even the pretence of orders from Terra. While I do not presume to speak for the Emperor, I cannot believe that the use of a virus bomb on Isstvan III was justifiable. A single Company from a single Chapter dropped on the rebel headquarters would have answered the case."
"I say the Emperor must know what is happening here. Who is with me? Varren? What say the World Eaters?" A red uniformed officer stood."
"There are fifteen man I can trust. They are yours."
"Garro?" A Captain of the Death guards looked up."
"A dozen. I wish it were more."
"Ten from the Luna Wolves."
"Twenty from the Thousand Sons."
"Be sure they are all trustworthy. If you have the slightest doubt, do not commit them. Of my own Emperor's Children, there are ten I am sure of, including myself." There was a pause as the paucity of their force sunk in.
"Seventy Marines," said Brother Captain Varren of the World Eaters, "the sum of our five Chapter numbers -a good omen, perhaps?" A couple smiled, and the tension of the moment was broken. "Seventy Marines." repeated Tarvitz. "Enough for any task, I think. So, to work. Varren, your men will seize control of the frigate Eisenstein in three hours from now. It is on the edge of the fleet, and should be clear for the jump to Warp Space." Varren nodded.
"The Eisenstein has been having maneuver-drive trouble." he said, with exaggerated innocence. "She's been falling behind the fleet all day." Tarvitz grinned.
"Good. The rest of us will arrange for our ships to lag behind with her in case of ...further trouble with the drives. Three hours from now, we will all assemble full crew for an emergency briefing. Meanwhile, our trusted men take control of the systems on all five ships. Clear all remaining ships from around the Eisenstein and keep her covered until she makes the jump to Warp Space. Then Cause as much damage as you can to the rest of the fleet. History will vindicate us."
He turned to Varren. "Your World Eaters are our only hope," he said, " Do not fail." Varren's eyes became serious. "We cannot fail," he said, "There is too much at stake. your deaths will be avenged."
(Note: this was taken from the rulebook of the first Epic game space marine).
I said *on* Isstvan III. In the current fluff the traitors landed 100,000+ marines on Isstvan III *before* virus bombing it, then got bogged down for months culling those that survived due to Tarvitz' (or Garro?) warning. Which was the setting of the CCG. Whilst your quote clearly states they didn't land even a single company.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/31 01:11:08
Gashrog wrote: Food for thought, Collected Visions/Book IV did include this snippet of praise:
"In 2002, Sabretooth Games proposed an idea to Games Worksop about doing a special mega battle box that focused on the final battle of the Horus Heresy for our Warhammer 40,000 Collectible Card Game. But rather than just the final battle, Alan Merrett suggested we tell the entire story of the Horus Heresy, from the moment Horus betrayed the Emperor until the end of the Heresy.
The Horus Heresy is the Holy Grail of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, and a massive amount of research was done initally to catalogue every piece of information ever written about it. I had several meetings with Alan Merrett and John Blanche to review everything. Just to think, ten years ago I was debating what happened during the Horus Heresy with my friends and now I was with two of the most talented guys in the industry getting to decide what really did happen!
Three years and several expansions later and the rest, as they say, is history. I can guarantee that everyone who worked so hard on this will never forget the experience. I must give special thanks to Alan Merrett, without whom none of this would be possible."
Steve Horvath
CEO, Sabertooth Games
The base set of the CCG - and as a result a decent chunk of the artbook - covered the traitor/loyalist war on Isstvan III which many regard as a core part of the Heresy, but it simply didn't exist *before* the CCG, so it would appear he had at least some influence on what the modern Heresy is.
As head of IP, he would have been very involved in those meetings. That, however, does not mean he had any hand in creating the HH.
Personally, I read that as having a very major hand in developing the HH (among many many other things) and the beginning of BL & FW producing the HH products. Lot of creative minds work with one another. But whatever, he's retired.
co-host weekly wargaming podcast Combat Phase
on iTunes or www.combatphase.com
VeteranNoob wrote: He wrote the book. He's the lorekeeper of the Heresy. That tweet mentioned early has the BL editor saying we have the HH because of him. But of course it wasn't Allan alone. The 3 GWs all work together.
As for stories about what he may or may not have done in GW, who knows. We never will.
It's really an "edited by" job, rather than something deserving author credit. Both versions of the book are essentially art books, collecting up a lot of the stuff done by Sabretooth for the CCG and other art from various GW sources. I think if we're considering anyone to be the "Lorekeeper of the Heresy" it's got to be Alan Bligh. Merett was certainly a supporter of the project from higher-up, the value of which can't be discounted, except by those who only want to see everything in Black and White.
VeteranNoob wrote: He wrote the book. He's the lorekeeper of the Heresy. That tweet mentioned early has the BL editor saying we have the HH because of him. But of course it wasn't Allan alone. The 3 GWs all work together.
As for stories about what he may or may not have done in GW, who knows. We never will.
It's really an "edited by" job, rather than something deserving author credit. Both versions of the book are essentially art books, collecting up a lot of the stuff done by Sabretooth for the CCG and other art from various GW sources. I think if we're considering anyone to be the "Lorekeeper of the Heresy" it's got to be Alan Bligh. Merett was certainly a supporter of the project from higher-up, the value of which can't be discounted, except by those who only want to see everything in Black and White.
...ok Not sure how long Alan B has been there, though.
I'mma drop this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/31 03:35:54
co-host weekly wargaming podcast Combat Phase
on iTunes or www.combatphase.com
JamesY wrote: The herald of his exit I'd say was the riptide, as it was the first time that the studio ignored him vetoing a product and released it without his ok. Fantastic sales proved he was wrong. I think from that point his position began to weaken, and he started to find increasing resistance to his ideas and manner of working.
Is the Riptide the model that people complain about being broken and game ruining? Especially when taken in multiples?
Don't forget the role of Dark Glass in the Golden Throne project... (ref: 'The Path of Heaven')
It could be interesting to look more at the Iron/Stone/Golden Men, except then we would be pre-Age of Strife and it wouldn't be anything to do with Warhammer 40,000 anymore. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely at this stage that we will see a full series or anything like that. That's not really how GW operates.
Interesting note - from Alan Merrett's lips, the Golden Men were a genetically engineered master race, with selective breeding kind of like in 'Dune'. The Iron Men were, obviously, machines. The stone in Stone Men refers to silicon, as in they are organic intelligence, created artificially. I like to think of them like the Thirteenth Tribe from 'Battlestar Galactica', the organic cylons who left Kobol and began their own civilisation.
Interesting trivia, never before mentioned anywhere else (to my knowledge):
'The Beast Arises' originally dealt with the Imperium's use of the outlawed Iron Men as a last-ditch attempt to prevent the ork invasion from reaching Terra. It was changed because there are no miniatures of them.
But it's true that 'Collected Visions' is no longer canon. Where discrepancies exist with 'Visions of Heresy', the newer book is correct. It all came from the pen of Alan Merrett, so no one can even argue otherwise!
All these jokes and more were made about the title, by me and Alan Merrett, on stage at the Weekender in 2013... you'll have to do better than that! cool.gif
But yes - categorically, 'Visions of Heresy' replaces 'Collected Visions' in terms of all canonicity. It's why we commissioned Alan to write more content, it's all from the same source that way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/31 09:15:52
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Is the Riptide the model that people complain about being broken and game ruining? Especially when taken in multiples?
Indeed it is. Though you can hardly blame the sculptors for the rules the design studio phones in from the pub...
I'm not blaming the sculptors for anything, but if Merrett tried to block it and was overridden, then it turns into a unit that many people complain about................perhaps he had a point?
I think it's only people getting destroyed by them that are unhappy; it's a great model, with unbalanced rules. I'm assuming Merett objected to it before the rules were written.
Plus, it was the first mini of it's size, wasn't it? If it had never been released, would we have seen Knights or Monstrous Creatures?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/31 09:55:20
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: I'm not blaming the sculptors for anything, but if Merrett tried to block it and was overridden, then it turns into a unit that many people complain about................perhaps he had a point?
Aesthetically? No. Rules wise, probably. Depends on what ideas he objected to.
Or perhaps that was his dastardly plan? "Riptide! RIPTIDE! How dare they overrule me! I know, I'll order the games design team to make rules that are so intolerable that people will hate and never buy the model! Bwahahahahaaaa!"
Herzlos wrote: I think it's only people getting destroyed by them that are unhappy; it's a great model, with unbalanced rules. I'm assuming Merett objected to it before the rules were written.
Plus, it was the first mini of it's size, wasn't it? If it had never been released, would we have seen Knights or Monstrous Creatures?
Nope, the Dreadknight and plastic Trygon/Mawloc/Trygon Prime came out in 5th Edition a year or two (or three maybe in the case of the nids, can't remember exactly which tyranid wave they were released with in 5th) before the Riptide.
Interesting trivia, never before mentioned anywhere else (to my knowledge):
'The Beast Arises' originally dealt with the Imperium's use of the outlawed Iron Men as a last-ditch attempt to prevent the ork invasion from reaching Terra. It was changed because there are no miniatures of them.
Well that's too bad. Part of me is amazed that they still allow Imperial civilians in their stories.
They do still allow Imperial civilians in their stories, don't they?
Interesting trivia, never before mentioned anywhere else (to my knowledge):
'The Beast Arises' originally dealt with the Imperium's use of the outlawed Iron Men as a last-ditch attempt to prevent the ork invasion from reaching Terra. It was changed because there are no miniatures of them.
If true, that's one of the saddest things I have read on this forum for some time.
One of the joys of GW's universes when I first got into the game was the enigmatic stories, the mystery, the feeling that there was a 'big dark' out there beyond the struggling, and a long forgotten history behind it all. It added such a sense of scale to the background.
What in effect this says is that they are no different to Mattel or Hasbro, who stipulate in their accompanying animation series that the characters look exactly like the toys that kids buy off the shelves. It's sad that the creative efforts and imaginations of the writers are being so constrained, it was one of GW's biggest strengths.
Interesting trivia, never before mentioned anywhere else (to my knowledge):
'The Beast Arises' originally dealt with the Imperium's use of the outlawed Iron Men as a last-ditch attempt to prevent the ork invasion from reaching Terra. It was changed because there are no miniatures of them.
Well that's too bad. Part of me is amazed that they still allow Imperial civilians in their stories.
They do still allow Imperial civilians in their stories, don't they?
Surely that's nonsense. The aliens the imperial fists fight in the first book don't have miniatures. There are dozens of races mentioned in both the Horus heresy books and the AOS books that don't have miniatures.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/31 14:26:58
Without Merrett, we might finally get novels and artwork that aren't just Games (tm) Workshop (tm) Miniatures (tm) in Default (c) Poses (tm)
The Iron Men being removed from the Beast Arises because they have no models is disgusting if it's true. What's next, Gaunts Ghosts being banned because there are no models for Urdesh-pattern gear and Blood Pact?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/31 16:18:48
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Since this is a different point, I'm not sure about the early TBA part. I interview each of the authors from book 3 on each month when I cover the series. I know TBA started almost three years ago then paused for a little over a year before they continued at full pace. It hasn't come up but that doesn't mean anything. Not writing a series starring models they don't make isn't unbelievable -- we have custodes and sisters of silence and some abhuman races. Though I'm curious so will ask next interview and see if anyone knows anything about it. Having BL stuff start as something else completely is nothing new. The Tranzia Rebellion play started out pitched as a podcast.
If someone will be at Black Library Live and can ask this there I'm sure you'd get an honest response. So much comes out of those in-person events.
co-host weekly wargaming podcast Combat Phase
on iTunes or www.combatphase.com
Verviedi wrote: Without Merrett, we might finally get novels and artwork that aren't just Games (tm) Workshop (tm) Miniatures (tm) in Default (c) Poses (tm)
Heresy! All stalker boltguns are always being reloaded all the time!
I admit, I haven't really read much of the ten pages of this thread, but it was my impression the guy didn't do much of anything, so I don't think we're really expecting big changes as a result of this?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: I admit, I haven't really read much of the ten pages of this thread, but it was my impression the guy didn't do much of anything, so I don't think we're really expecting big changes as a result of this?
Reading several comments in the thread I get the feeling that he left because of the wind of change.
Spoiler:
I follow River Leen
Down to the Sigmarine
Listening to the wind of change
An August summer night
Merret is passing by
Blown off by the wind of change
Games Workshop is changing
Did you ever think
That they would use such things, like Facebook
The future's in the air
My wallet feels it everywhere
Emptying in the wind of change
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the players of tomorrow dream away (dream away)
In the wind of change
Walking down the street
Awful memories
Are buried in the past forever
I follow River Leen
Down to the Sigmarine
Listening to the wind of change
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the players of tomorrow play Kill Teams (play Kill Teams)
With you and me
I suppose you have to be German (or Russian) to know the song...
I don't know if it's true, but if he really hates Genestealer Cults and was the one who made my first army more or less unplayable for... some time... - I'm glad he's gone.
