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 StygianBeach wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


Fine until the last line. Try again.

Given that the only thing that kept GW from losing more money this year was licensing fees... seems like 'stagnate and decline' is a pretty accurate term.

They are at least trying to turn the Titanic around, but there are still an awful lot of icebergs, and the captain is new to his job. (While the old one was Drunk While On Duty - and was known to turn Nelson's eye to the icebergs.)

The Auld Grump

The only thing?

Licensing fees are a valid source of income, one GW would be silly not to take advantage of, hardly evidence for stagnation. In fact I would say their new shotgun approach to IP licensing is a form of innovation on GW's part.

GW did not lose money this year, or last year. I do not know why some people cannot tell the difference between profits decreasing and actually losing money.

Stagnate and Decline is not an accurate term at all.

Yes, yes it is.

How else do you frame falling revenue with rising prices?

Losing money =\= making a loss.

I do not understand when one can see even GW know they were on a downward trend (why change so much if everything was rosy?) that people are still arguing things are ok based on the fact they didn't make a loss.

"They made a profit, therefore things are ok" is such a myopic and ill informed viewpoint I find it hard to believe anyone making such a point actually possesses the necessary experience, knowledge or qualifications to even begin to argue it credibly.

Yes, the band aid of licensing has kept things relatively stable, but look beyond that and one sees another year of contraction in real terms in the core business, and if the core business continues to stagnate or decline, that juicy licence money will start to dry up too.

If anything selling your IP to everyone just devalues it in the eyes of the public, if bad 40k games outnumber the good that puts people off.

And you're not going to get a total war every year.

And if rumours coming out of dow 3 are true there's not going to be a big pay day this year.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Licensing fees are not enough to keep GW afloat though, and unless the new captain acts quickly to stem the haemorrhage of money spewing from HMS Games Workshops side it may soon be too late.

Sales revenue only dropped 0.9% and they still would have made 11M GBP before royalties.

I agree GW have been in decline and are currently stagnate, but haemorrhaging money and sinking they are not.

 Azreal13 wrote:


Yes, yes it is.

How else do you frame falling revenue with rising prices?

Losing money =\= making a loss.

I do not understand when one can see even GW know they were on a downward trend (why change so much if everything was rosy?) that people are still arguing things are ok based on the fact they didn't make a loss.

"They made a profit, therefore things are ok" is such a myopic and ill informed viewpoint I find it hard to believe anyone making such a point actually possesses the necessary experience, knowledge or qualifications to even begin to argue it credibly.

Yes, the band aid of licensing has kept things relatively stable, but look beyond that and one sees another year of contraction in real terms in the core business, and if the core business continues to stagnate or decline, that juicy licence money will start to dry up too.

How is licensing a band aid?

It may be clear in you mind that losing money is not the same as making a loss, but how clear was that in the post that I quoted?

How does GW's recent situation compare with the drop after the Lord of the Rings Bubble? Those were bad times.

With an attributable cause ie LOTR falling flat and GW becoming inefficient because of the revenue LOTR had been generating.

There is no directly attributable cause to the current slide (it doesn't mirror the wider GFC, it most closely relates to 6th 40K.) GW has cut, in some cases so deeply they appear to have hurt themselves (hence Rountree reversing them.) GW have, in essence, kept doing what they've always done, and it appears to be ceasing to work.

Licences are a band aid for reasons already expressed - they can devalue themselves if over used. Also because if the licenced property itself starts to lose its shine, then all licences associated with it do too, third parties become less interested in obtaining licences, therefore the licences become less valuable and less lucrative.

GW can't rely on licence income unless they maintain something worth licensing.

I think the recent struggles in GW aligns reasonably well with 8th ed WHFB performing poorly and then with 6th and 7th editions struggling to drag sales back up. 5th edition was their big winner after LotR sales dropped off, it was 5th that brought them back up. 6th edition was a smaller upward spike, 7th ed came in their first big year of decline since recovering from the LotR drop.

I can get on board with that. Certainly the decline seems to have been self generated over any sort of outside factor.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I can get on board with that. Certainly the decline seems to have been self generated over any sort of outside factor.

It's a combination of dodgy rules, eye-watering prices and very strong competition on quality and price from other companies.

Two of these factors are completely self-generated by GW. The other less so but even then a lot of the direct table-top competition for GW are ex-GW designers who were 'retired' by the company.

Yep, and others have generally expanded into a niche vacated by the discontinuation of a GW game.

Necromunda - Infinty
Mordheim - Malifaux
Blood Bowl - Dreadball, Guildball etc
Epic - Dropzone Commander
BFG - Dropfleet Commander, Armada
X Wing - Aeronautica Imperialis

I'm sure there are others too.

Not to say there is no way that these games would ever have existed, but GW's lack of support/discontinuation opened up markets that an actively supported, popular, ruleset would have made them much harder to move into.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yep, and others have generally expanded into a niche vacated by the discontinuation of a GW game.

Necromunda - Infinty
Mordheim - Malifaux
Blood Bowl - Dreadball, Guildball etc
Epic - Dropzone Commander
BFG - Dropfleet Commander, Armada
X Wing - Aeronautica Imperialis

I'm sure there are others too.

Not to say there is no way that these games would ever have existed, but GW's lack of support/discontinuation opened up markets that an actively supported, popular, ruleset would have made them much harder to move into.

These are the direct competitors and I'd view them all as very good games. GW also face a big battle from some very well designed historical table-top games. Not to mention the plethora of great miniature board games and niche company miniature or rule-set only releases hitting the market that are also vying for market share. There's also Kickstarter that sucks a lot of cash out of the gamer market. It's a great time to be a gamer but that makes it harder for GW to regain market share.

And many of the rules being published by GW's competitors were written by ex-GW people.

GW lost a lot of very talented people.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
And many of the rules being published by GW's competitors were written by ex-GW people.

GW lost a lot of very talented people.

The Auld Grump

I'd go as far as to say that all of the people responsible for making the GW a lot of gamers love, now perform that same magic for their competitors.

 StygianBeach wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:


Yes, yes it is.

How else do you frame falling revenue with rising prices?

Losing money =\= making a loss.

I do not understand when one can see even GW know they were on a downward trend (why change so much if everything was rosy?) that people are still arguing things are ok based on the fact they didn't make a loss.

"They made a profit, therefore things are ok" is such a myopic and ill informed viewpoint I find it hard to believe anyone making such a point actually possesses the necessary experience, knowledge or qualifications to even begin to argue it credibly.

Yes, the band aid of licensing has kept things relatively stable, but look beyond that and one sees another year of contraction in real terms in the core business, and if the core business continues to stagnate or decline, that juicy licence money will start to dry up too.

How is licensing a band aid?

It may be clear in you mind that losing money is not the same as making a loss, but how clear was that in the post that I quoted?

How does GW's recent situation compare with the drop after the Lord of the Rings Bubble? Those were bad times.

Okay, let us take this slow...

GW sold fewer things this year than they did last year - fewer people bought Space Marines. Fewer people bought not-Space Marines. (Space Marines are easily their best selling items - more than entire games make for the company - so breaking them down as Space Marines and not-Space Marines gives a better view of how sales are actually running - Space Marines sold better than the entirety of Warhammer Fantasy Battle for several years.)

GW sold less stuff.

Which means that they made less money.

Not 'spent more than they made' - just made 'less money via sales than they made last year via sales'.

Making less money than the previous year means that you are losing money - getting less profit from the same amount of expended effort and resources.

If the trend continues then sooner, rather than later, they will end up 'spending more money than they made'.

This year, they made more money - but only after you add in the additional revenue from licensing. The sales of the games and miniatures that GW actually makes was lower than the year before.

Licensing is a band aid because it does not directly do anything about the root causes of dropping sales. It does not address why GW sold fewer Space Marines and not-Space Marines.

Selling less stuff also devalues the license - it is a lot easier to sell tee shirts of a hit band than it is for a group that has concerts in their parents' garage.

Saying 'oh, they only lost 0.9% of sales' still means a loss in sales, and that loss is on top of the losses from the year before, and the year before that.

Finding out what is going wrong in their core business not only means increasing their direct sales, but also adds value to their license.

What Kirby had been focusing on was not on growing the brand, it was on cutting costs - which does not add value to the brand, nor does it increase sales. It merely means that there is greater profit on each of the sales that they do make - which is a matter of diminishing returns.

Rountree is focusing on growing the market - selling more items, even if the profit on each item sold is lower.

So, he is putting out stuff that can be sold in hobby shops, not just GW and game stores.

He is putting together bundles, so that folks that weren't buying, let us say Knights, will spend the money to get two Knights. They are meaking less money than they would if someone was buying two at full price - but a lot more than they would if the person didn't buy anything.

Rountree is doing what Kirby should have - and had Kirby started doing this ten years ago, or even five years ago, then GW would not be in the position that it is now in.

The question is - can GW turn around fast enough to grow the brand big enough that the company does not go under?

The Auld Grump - they have a much better chance now than they did even a year and a half ago.

£22 kharn says hi.

At best the deathwatch stuff is a blip.

The combo deals are no where near the value of the early 00's, certainly some armies are getting way better deals that others.

The boxed games are all stupidly expensive compared to other companies.

I keep hearing things have improved but I'm not seeing it.

I've said this before, but 8th 40K is going to be the most important release for GW in, well, forever.

I'm happy that the company is doing its best to try and change, and I'm happy to reward the changes I see as positive. I've subscribed to New Dwarf, I've bought a couple of books where I'd been making do with PDFs, I will buy any models that come out that fit with armies I collect (hasn't happened yet, I've got plenty to be getting on with!)

But the one thing, above all else, that's still lacking is a game I'm excited to play more than once or twice a year. If they can crack that, I'm back on board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hobojebus wrote:
£22 kharn says hi.

At best the deathwatch stuff is a blip.

The combo deals are no where near the value of the early 00's, certainly some armies are getting way better deals that others.

The boxed games are all stupidly expensive compared to other companies.

I keep hearing things have improved but I'm not seeing it.

“For those with faith, no evidence is necessary; for those without it, no evidence will suffice.”

You're about as blind a zealot when it comes to anti GW as I've seen on this board. But sure, let's bang on about how things aren't as good as they were 15 years ago, make false comparisons (most of their boxed games command a premium over comparable products, but as vehicles for delivering wargaming miniatures they offer great discounts) and cherry picking examples to make our points (and OK, everyone agrees that clam packs are often too expensive - happy?)

But then, given the "facts" you often throw around, it is quite possible a lot of your ire is based on bad information and lack of understanding anyway, so it shouldn't be a surprise you can't see where things are changing.

hobojebus wrote:
£22 kharn says hi.

At best the deathwatch stuff is a blip.

The combo deals are no where near the value of the early 00's, certainly some armies are getting way better deals that others.

The boxed games are all stupidly expensive compared to other companies.

I keep hearing things have improved but I'm not seeing it.

No, you are seeing it - you just do not think that they are going far enough.

And you could well be right.

Simply, better does not necessarily mean 'good' or even 'good enough'.

The Auld Grump

 master of ordinance wrote:
Licensing fees are not enough to keep GW afloat though, and unless the new captain acts quickly to stem the haemorrhage of money spewing from HMS Games Workshops side it may soon be too late.

Well it appears that their first step was to break with FFG, so... Iceberg dead ahead!!!

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've said this before, but 8th 40K is going to be the most important release for GW in, well, forever.

Well yeah after they killed fantasy and Lotr failed yeah it'd make sense this is their only real shot left. They have AoS but i'd rather not talk about it. I will admit out of nowhere in the past month or two AoS players started arriving out of nothing. Possibly the Points system had something to do with it. Personally after the death of fantasy and the alienation and demonizing of the fans of it i feel i should just leave to greener pastures with X-wing or just buy online or from a local game shop instead. As i said before until GW allows WHF to be played in their store again (keep in mind this is the only game not allowed in their stores and a primary one at that) i will continue to completely demonize GW because frankly they deserve it. I bet they tried and failed to shoot down the Total War Warhammer game as it was less than a year away from finished as one last '**** you' to the fans. But really let's draw in a crowd for End Times and the big announcement everybody waited for with AoS is that instead of 9th edition our game is now dead and we can no longer play it. Instead 40k players get a beer and pretzels game that costs hundreds, has no points, has space marines and has children's humor where you flick your genitals for a re-roll. Oh and if you don't like the changes you are not true fans and can leave. That was practically what the GW manager told us. God i'm glad Kirby and friends got sacked. It's pretty pathetic when Mat Ward is Dennis the Menace and Kirby is like the anti-christ.

There's a possibility that GW made the video games for Fantasy that did really well as a send-off to fantasy and losing the IP but why would you allow such great games as Vermintide and Total War: Warhammer (a game fans waited for since at least medieval 2: total war) and then just murder the IP like that. You would've gotten fans. GW needs video games and such constantly because let's face it Tabletop Wargaming isn't a very large crowd and video games, book and movies has far more people into it than Tabletop Wargaming ever will. The saddest bit is Total War legit tried to sell GW's minis on the title page of their game and GW eventually successfully shoots down the page on their end. In that time however multiple units and models advertised sold out for some reason. Gee i wonder why. This is even with Kirby gone. It's almost like GW absolutely must make a stupid move even when a clear genius plan is presented to them. God what a bunch of dumb ***es and *******s

Most posts agree, right now is the time Games Workshop needs to fix their wagon.. They are not the giant they once were.. Years ago they ran neck and neck with Magic..
Instead of trying to get product in every shop and sale volume. They would watch the local shops that jumped through their hoops and if they saw large sales, they would
open a GW store in that area; hurting the shop that once supported them.
Lets look at current releases for single miniatures ; Fantasy flight Star Wars Grand Inquisitor full retail is $9.95 US..
Games Workshop 40k Deathwatch Watch Master Full retail is $25
Both come as a unpainted miniature and comes in a single blister..
Why is one 2.5 times more while the other is also a licences product meaning the producing company is not getting full profits.??
People can say there is better quality in games workshop but is it so grate that the cost that much.

I agree with Azeral13 post about games GW abandoned that now have competitors with strong markets in the same genre.
With Conflict for Bolt Action coming out with a lot of buzz and there is a game kickstarter starting everyday, the hobby is full of strong games right now
X-wing and War machine taking the disgruntled GW customers in masses they can not act like the company of old and think
brand loyalty will carry them through.

Like a lot of folks I started with GW back in the mid 90's. I bailed in the early 2000's, and now only buy stuff on eBay as I rebuild an old 2nd edition army for grins.

If we put aside opinion stuff, such as my distaste for the overkill styling aesthetic they frequently use (which is simply a turn off to their product line in many cases), I simply don't respect Games Workshop.

They don't act like a mature company. That, in itself, is a huge turn off to supporting the company. Bullying shops, restricting shops actually selling their product, charging 200-300% more than most comparable companies for almost every product they sell, refusing to interact with the community (this is hopefully changing) etc. Add to this the fact that they frequently discontinue their best products and I'm left with little at all to be interested in.

That being said, I don't demand that they change. I vote with my dollars. I don't buy from GW directly, and I rarely buy anything new even at discount from a retailer. I still enjoy the universe and I like throwing down a game of 2nd edition 40K but as a customer? Gone.

I had a discussion with a friend of mine the other day and we agreed there is nothing GW could do with a new ediiton of 40K to bring me back after 13 years. I play a lot of games, wonderful games. I collect a lot of miniatures, wonderful miniatures. I interact with loads of companies who sell gaming materials etc. I've never encountered the likes of GW's "business practices". It's a shame but I'm not hindered. I have plenty of other games to play.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've said this before, but 8th 40K is going to be the most important release for GW in, well, forever.

This will be the 6th time they've made a rule set that uses the framework from 3rd Ed (including 3rd Ed). Do you have any amount of realistic hope that they're going to fix things?

Remember what I said about 6th (link is in my sig):

"I could almost live with it if 7th Ed was GW making a new edition to fix the problems of 6th - like a 'break glass in case of stupidity' situation where they've seen what 40K has become (allies shenanigans, dataslates, and other nonsense) and they decided the best way to fix it was to tear the Band-Aid off quickly and reset everything with a new edition. But they're not doing that. They're adding more extraneous nonsense. More charts. More things to roll on. More cards ... More dataslates ... More blatant disregard for the fluff."

7th doubled down on the problems of 6th, adding more complicated nonsense, charts, tables and even more special rules than 3rd Ed had before it collapsed under its own weight and was replaced with the most boring edition of 40K ever. Why do we think 8th will fix this when their track record says otherwise?

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
There's a possibility that GW made the video games for Fantasy that did really well as a send-off to fantasy and losing the IP but why would you allow such great games as Vermintide and Total War: Warhammer (a game fans waited for since at least medieval 2: total war) and then just murder the IP like that.

Likely because work began on those games a while back before GW were ready to reveal AoS.

@HBMC: I still hate GW's guts though. I swear every time they seem like they're doing something brilliant (like End Times, DoW or Total War: Warhammer) they do something so unbelievably stupid i just can't fathom why they would do it. Seriously making 9th edition fantasy and selling the Total War game at the same time would've been brilliant. I mean Total War advertised the Fantasy minis shown in-game on the title page when you enter the Total War: Warhammer game. GW still shoots this brilliant marketing strategy down from the sky before it succeeds. People complain about Sega or CA with all the DLC but at least they're smart enough to know how much people are willing to spend and how to get them interested in something. GW lacks the knowledge of how to sell other than make big units with OP rules and they will sell. Then they probably don't even understand why other lines fail (other armies are under-powered and suck). It's even been shown people don't give a crap about how pretty a unit is if it sucks in the game and yet they stated people wanted pretty models. Yeah bull ****.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

GW sold fewer things this year than they did last year - fewer people bought Space Marines. Fewer people bought not-Space Marines. (Space Marines are easily their best selling items - more than entire games make for the company - so breaking them down as Space Marines and not-Space Marines gives a better view of how sales are actually running - Space Marines sold better than the entirety of Warhammer Fantasy Battle for several years.)

GW sold less stuff.

Which means that they made less money.

Not 'spent more than they made' - just made 'less money via sales than they made last year via sales'.

Making less money than the previous year means that you are losing money - getting less profit from the same amount of expended effort and resources.

If the trend continues then sooner, rather than later, they will end up 'spending more money than they made'.

This year, they made more money - but only after you add in the additional revenue from licensing. The sales of the games and miniatures that GW actually makes was lower than the year before.

Licensing is a band aid because it does not directly do anything about the root causes of dropping sales. It does not address why GW sold fewer Space Marines and not-Space Marines.

Selling less stuff also devalues the license - it is a lot easier to sell tee shirts of a hit band than it is for a group that has concerts in their parents' garage.

Saying 'oh, they only lost 0.9% of sales' still means a loss in sales, and that loss is on top of the losses from the year before, and the year before that.

Finding out what is going wrong in their core business not only means increasing their direct sales, but also adds value to their license.

What Kirby had been focusing on was not on growing the brand, it was on cutting costs - which does not add value to the brand, nor does it increase sales. It merely means that there is greater profit on each of the sales that they do make - which is a matter of diminishing returns.

Rountree is focusing on growing the market - selling more items, even if the profit on each item sold is lower.

So, he is putting out stuff that can be sold in hobby shops, not just GW and game stores.

He is putting together bundles, so that folks that weren't buying, let us say Knights, will spend the money to get two Knights. They are meaking less money than they would if someone was buying two at full price - but a lot more than they would if the person didn't buy anything.

Rountree is doing what Kirby should have - and had Kirby started doing this ten years ago, or even five years ago, then GW would not be in the position that it is now in.

The question is - can GW turn around fast enough to grow the brand big enough that the company does not go under?

The Auld Grump - they have a much better chance now than they did even a year and a half ago.

Thanks for the clarification that you are in agreement that GW made a profit this year, and last, and the year before.....

GW have been in a trend of diminishing profits for a long time. Making the claim that 'if this continues GW will go under' is quite banal and obvious, given enough time this would happen with any company.
The thing is that GW are making so much money that there is no impending doom just around the corner.

Considering how many posts I have read that where people have claimed to have started 40K because of Dawn of War I do not agree that licensing plays no part in addressing the sale of GW boxes.

I agree Roundtree is doing things much better than Kirby (from about 2009 onwards anyway), in fact around 2009 I would have agreed with the 'stagnation and decline' comment.

GW are trying new things and have many years ahead of them to see how things go.

I do not think that GW will ever go under as long as there is miniatures market, they may become a very small shadow of what they once were but I think they will always have some presence.

 StygianBeach wrote:

GW have been in a trend of diminishing profits for a long time. Making the claim that 'if this continues GW will go under' is quite banal and obvious, given enough time this would happen with any company.
The thing is that GW are making so much money that there is no impending doom just around the corner.

Are they?

At current trend of losing sales at about 1% per year, (or £1m, if you want to really simplify it) it's only a few years before they will struggle to meet their costs.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
£22 kharn says hi.

At best the deathwatch stuff is a blip.

The combo deals are no where near the value of the early 00's, certainly some armies are getting way better deals that others.

The boxed games are all stupidly expensive compared to other companies.

I keep hearing things have improved but I'm not seeing it.

No, you are seeing it - you just do not think that they are going far enough.

And you could well be right.

Simply, better does not necessarily mean 'good' or even 'good enough'.

The Auld Grump

You know what you're right.

I'm just sick of hearing how things have improved from fanboys when the change has been pretty insignificant.

The boxed games are all stupidly expensive compared to other companies.

The newly released board games are mostly made for beginners. But the price might keep them away from buying. Other games have (much) cheaper starters, like xwing and WMH.

Herzlos wrote:

 StygianBeach wrote:

GW have been in a trend of diminishing profits for a long time. Making the claim that 'if this continues GW will go under' is quite banal and obvious, given enough time this would happen with any company.
The thing is that GW are making so much money that there is no impending doom just around the corner.

Are they?

At current trend of losing sales at about 1% per year, (or £1m, if you want to really simplify it) it's only a few years before they will struggle to meet their costs.

Also, remember that miniatures gaming is a social hobby with a strong "critical mass" effect. If you're a new player you probably start playing the game that your friends are playing, and it doesn't matter how awesome your favorite game is if there aren't any people in your area to play it with. So there is likely a point in market share where the more GW loses the faster the losses continue, and the end is a death spiral rather than a steady decline. This is especially true when GW is depending on price increases and cost cutting to keep their annual decline down to that 1%. Selling the latest character model at $999999999 can improve the short-term numbers but if people stop playing over it then GW moves closer to the death spiral.

Also also, remember that GW has effectively a single product line. LOTR and the other minor games don't bring in enough revenue to pay the bills, and AoS is a complete disaster that handed GW's competition a gift-wrapped package of the former WHFB market. And even before the AoS debacle WHFB was selling very poorly. GW's entire business depends on the continued success of 40k, and after years of decline GW has used up all of their margin for error. If 8th edition is a failure GW could very well die as a result.

So when is 8th edition coming out, or is this all just speculation about the new edition?

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I swear every time they seem like they're doing something brilliant (like End Times, DoW or Total War: Warhammer) they do something so unbelievably stupid i just can't fathom why they would do it.

To be fair, GW didn't make Total Warhammer or DoW. They simply got paid for the use of the license.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Seriously making 9th edition fantasy and selling the Total War game at the same time would've been brilliant. I mean Total War advertised the Fantasy minis shown in-game on the title page when you enter the Total War: Warhammer game. GW still shoots this brilliant marketing strategy down from the sky before it succeeds.

I completely agree, but GW has always been terrible at leveraging their IP for cross-promotion and enhancing their own brands. Think of all the big non-GW-created GW IP releases and how often they've never done anything to coincide with them. Warhammer Online got a cool Orc mini in the collector's edition and... that's it as far as I can tell.

A bunch of massive Dawn of War games come out, and it took GW nearly twelve years to release a single Blood Raven model.
Space Marine? Nothing.
That (admittedly quite bad) Ultramarine movie? That got a free PDF release from FFG, and nothing from GW.

They just ignore their IP once it's out in the world, and never do anything that would draw people towards them. The first time I saw links to the GW website was for Total Warhammer, and those links take you to AoS because they killed the WFB universe. The splash page might as well have said "Did you like fighting the Chaos Hordes with your Empire army? Well feth you 'cause we blew all that gak up! Now buy some Sigmarines and shut up kid!". It's insane.

I know GW has a level of involvement in everything of theirs that other people are doing, but why can't they get with the program and key some releases to go along with major IP releases? For the one in a hundred people who go "What is this 40K caper anyway?" and log into their website, it'd be great if they came across something that directly related to the video game or board game that they just started playing.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
People complain about Sega or CA with all the DLC but at least they're smart enough to know how much people are willing to spend and how to get them interested in something.

Nah they're still write to be gakky at SEGA. They're a bad publisher. Not as bad as some (EA, Ubisoft and especially Warner "Me no smart PC too hard!" Brothers), but it's A-Ok to dislike their DLC policies. And CA? Well they made a game that wasn't unplayable on release and riddled with endless bugs. That alone deserves some massive recognition.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
So when is 8th edition coming out, or is this all just speculation about the new edition?

There is nothing in the pipeline (news and rumors at dakka). Pure speculation if you ask me.