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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/22 17:07:07
Subject: Re:Where is the Meta at ?
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Executing Exarch
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I was all caught up with reading/podcasts/Youtube and then Wave IX goes off and I'm all baffled again, /grumble mode off
So do I gamble on what might be good or stick to established list types (with minor tweakage) ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/22 17:08:26
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/22 17:29:54
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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You could always experiment with what might be good first to see if it works?
If yes, awesome!
If no, well, at least you've got the established lists to fall back on for competitive play.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/22 20:29:25
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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I tried a Dengaroo list last night. Granted, my dice were red hot and my opponents' were wet dynamite, but even at 95 pts, the game was over in a little under 30 minutes.
Even considering all the upgrades I had on my ships, it is also one of the cheapest I have ever seen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 04:18:08
Subject: Re:Where is the Meta at ?
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Douglas Bader
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Turnip Jedi wrote:I was all caught up with reading/podcasts/Youtube and then Wave IX goes off and I'm all baffled again, /grumble mode off
So do I gamble on what might be good or stick to established list types (with minor tweakage) ?
Play u-boats if you want to win a tournament right now. Obviously you're going to want to playtest all of the new stuff (and who cares if you lose some casual/testing games doing it) so you can figure out what works, but the safest thing to do is to play u-boats with slicer tools. Palp aces take a huge hit from slicer tools and may not even be viable anymore, and nothing in wave 9 stands out as an obvious dominant list. So keep playing the list that has been winning and just got a major upgrade to deal with one of its few weaknesses. As for the rest of the new stuff, my TL;DR version:
The ARC-170 and TIE/ sf are dead on arrival. Maybe they'll find a niche role somewhere but both of them seem rather weak.
The Shadow Caster and Fen Rau seem mid-tier. They'll probably have some uses, but u-boats are so good that it's hard to argue in favor of any other scum list.
Upgrades are probably the biggest difference, and they're mostly ace hate. Slicer tools turns u-boats into a terrifying game-breaker by removing their only weakness (Palp aces) and will likely cause a huge metagame shift, both in killing Palp aces and enabling lists that Palp aces used to keep out of the meta. The droppable debris cloud and seismic torps might have a niche role and catch you unprepared, but probably aren't going to make a major meta shift. Vectored thrusters is good on the right ship, but none of the ships that benefit seem to be a major meta factor right now. And that's it for meaningful upgrades, really.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
skoffs wrote:Is it fair to assume the most common Palp Ace list one would expect to see at your average tourney Omicron+Inquisitor+Jax?
If so, what does this build have going for it over the others?
(Vader+Fel, Fel+Inquisitor, Inquisitor+Omega.L+Wampa)
Standard is probably Fel/Inquisitor, with Jax/Inquisitor being an interesting alternate option that might catch people unprepared for the control element. Fel/Inquisitor is simply the raw power option. Fel is PS 9 (always important in ace matches) and essentially immune to damage as long as Palpatine is alive, and the Inquisitor is a second autothrusters + action economy ace. Vader/Fel is obsolete now that the Inquisitor exists, Vader is just too squishy to be viable. Inquisitor/OLeader/Wampa is interesting, but Wampa is dead weight if you have to use Palpatine to defend your aces (as you normally do) and OLeader is a questionable idea compared to Fel. The best OLeader version I've seen is OLeader/Whisper, using the points you save by taking OLeader to upgrade the Inquisitor to Whisper. Whisper can solo entire lists and has to be dealt with ASAP, but so does Palpatine, and if you save OLeader for last and end up 1v1 you probably just lose.
Of course, to be clear, this is all in the context of the current pre-wave 9 meta. Once slicer tools are available Palp aces, if it survives as a viable list, will probably go in the direction of defenders of Whisper/OLeader since those options don't carry stress around to be turned into damage.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/09/23 05:39:07
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 06:31:26
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Missionary On A Mission
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I disagree. i don't think that palp aces will disappear completely. maybe Fel but there are alternatives to him.
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 07:36:33
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Douglas Bader
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captain bloody fists wrote:I disagree. i don't think that palp aces will disappear completely. maybe Fel but there are alternatives to him.
Clearly you haven't playtested Palp aces against slicer tools. U-boats already had a pretty competitive matchup against Palp aces and now it's a one-sided slaughter. If you use PTL for action economy you die to slicer tools. If you avoid stress and don't use PTL you don't have enough token stacking to survive the plasma torps. And it's actually worse for the Inquisitor than for Fel. Two successful rolls (at 50% chance each) and he's dead. Fel at least takes three successes to die. So if you're going to struggle to even attempt to win against the most common list in the metagame why would you take Palp aces? The answer is you don't. And the Palp aces players in my area (including one with some national-level success with the list) are dropping the list as soon as wave 9 is legal.
Now, it's possible that an OLeader/Whisper or defender variant of Palp aces might replace the current Fel/Inquisitor build, but it's going to be a very different list with a very different approach to winning.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 11:42:27
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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If stress is going to be such a huge issue for PalpAce lists, would C. Yorr instead of Omicron P. do anything to mitigate it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 15:49:58
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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He would, but then you have three U-boats firing ordnance at the shuttle and it won't survive. Plus Yorr only works at range 1-2 and he can only suck off 2 stress. My friend tried it, and it kinda telegraphs where everyone is going to be.
Against less than seasoned opponents, sure. Surprise factor, of course. Long term viability? Nor really.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 16:52:04
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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So what are the Rebel and Imperial (and Scum?) solutions to triple U-boats?
Or are tournaments just going to devolve into whoever flys their toilet seats the best wins
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 18:02:26
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Executing Exarch
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skoffs wrote:If stress is going to be such a huge issue for PalpAce lists, would C. Yorr instead of Omicron P. do anything to mitigate it?
Maybe, but given Yorr will need to stay close to the Ace's it also means he's going to most likely become the target of the Slicer Tools and getting shot at a fair bit due to arc dodging / token stacking by the Ace's, plus the extra points would have to come out of the trix budget for the Aces, OGP Palp can just lurk at the back meaning you actually have to dedicate a ship to chasing him, giving the Aces further time to wreck the rest of your flight
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/23 18:03:36
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 21:23:26
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Douglas Bader
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Turnip Jedi wrote:Maybe, but given Yorr will need to stay close to the Ace's it also means he's going to most likely become the target of the Slicer Tools and getting shot at a fair bit due to arc dodging / token stacking by the Ace's, plus the extra points would have to come out of the trix budget for the Aces, OGP Palp can just lurk at the back meaning you actually have to dedicate a ship to chasing him, giving the Aces further time to wreck the rest of your flight
Yorr isn't going to be the target of slicer tools because spending an action on slicer tools is really inefficient against a 5-hull ship with only one green die. If you're killing the shuttle you just focus and torpedo it to death in one turn. The real issue is, as you noted, the fact that Yorr has to get into shooting range and put Palpatine at risk. You're essentially turning Palpatine into imperial Biggs, buying a turn of not getting shot at (or sliced) in exchange for 30+ points. Automatically Appended Next Post: skoffs wrote:So what are the Rebel and Imperial (and Scum?) solutions to triple U-boats?
Or are tournaments just going to devolve into whoever flys their toilet seats the best wins
Honestly? Right now it looks like toilet seats (whether u-boats or Dengaroo) are the metagame. You can probably come up with alternative lists, but if you're going to a tournament in the near future u-boats with slicer tools are the obvious pick.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/23 21:25:18
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 21:56:00
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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Yeah. I'd toyed with using an all a-wing list (either the Green Arrow or Chihuahuas) to win on pure flying. Although my flying was getting really good, I wasn't even denting the paint on opponents' ships. Even toilet seats have 2 evade dice, but more importantly a lot of hit points to go through.
Whisper is a bit more immune to Slicer tools because she rarely generates stress. So Whisper, Omicron+Palp and whatever you have that doesn't need PTL is probably going to be making a comeback... if it ever went away. Whisper with an FCS has stupid good action economy (although I do prefer Echo myself, even if she is almost-garbage-tier). Maybe Turr Phennir can fit in that list?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/23 21:58:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/23 22:50:34
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Huge Hierodule
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Mathieu Raymond wrote:Yeah. I'd toyed with using an all a-wing list (either the Green Arrow or Chihuahuas) to win on pure flying. Although my flying was getting really good, I wasn't even denting the paint on opponents' ships. Even toilet seats have 2 evade dice, but more importantly a lot of hit points to go through.
Whisper is a bit more immune to Slicer tools because she rarely generates stress. So Whisper, Omicron+Palp and whatever you have that doesn't need PTL is probably going to be making a comeback... if it ever went away. Whisper with an FCS has stupid good action economy (although I do prefer Echo myself, even if she is almost-garbage-tier). Maybe Turr Phennir can fit in that list?
I think Whisper + Omega Leader is going to be the go-to.
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Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?
A: A Maniraptor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/24 00:22:32
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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It's certainly a powerful combination. And protects you from Slicer Tools.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/24 09:33:05
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Crazy_Carnifex wrote: Mathieu Raymond wrote:Yeah. I'd toyed with using an all a-wing list (either the Green Arrow or Chihuahuas) to win on pure flying. Although my flying was getting really good, I wasn't even denting the paint on opponents' ships. Even toilet seats have 2 evade dice, but more importantly a lot of hit points to go through.
Whisper is a bit more immune to Slicer tools because she rarely generates stress. So Whisper, Omicron+Palp and whatever you have that doesn't need PTL is probably going to be making a comeback... if it ever went away. Whisper with an FCS has stupid good action economy (although I do prefer Echo myself, even if she is almost-garbage-tier). Maybe Turr Phennir can fit in that list?
I think Whisper + Omega Leader is going to be the go-to.
Whisper and omega leader or omega leader, wampa and a ps1 X7 defender.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/24 10:54:32
Subject: Where is the Meta at ?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Just went up against a couple of Jump master lists in a small store tournament with Palp-mobile/Omega L./Inquisitor/Wampa.
The first one with Dengar I did alright against but ended up losing because a mistake on my part in the end (forgot Omega L. was stressed).
The other list with two U-boats and Y-Wing ripped me to shreds.
My positioning was fine, I just couldn't do anything to them. Lost Shuttle, then Wampa, then Omega Leader. Ran out of time before a complete tabling, but there was no way I could have won that game.
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