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Mechanical horse are DKoK.

Yay for America!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Would mechanical steeds be cool or lame?

They'd be very divisive. I and several people I've asked think they'd be lame but I know others that think it'd be awesome.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There isn't ever going to be another "Codex: Sisters of Battle".

Codex: Imperial Agents replaces Codex: Sisters of Battle in its entirety. C:IA would be more accurately titled "Codex: Sisters of Battle with enough other stuff that you don't have to field any actual Sisters of Battle, because we know that Sisters don't sell on their own".

GW obviously has no faith in Sisters. That's why the most recent M2O has exactly ONE Sister of Battle model, against 2 Witchhunters and a half-dozen Ecclesiarch models. It's why IA also bundles rules for Custodes, GK, DW, Inquisition, and more!

And here we go...

 pretre wrote:
This 136-page full-colour Codex presents background and rules for a number of smaller Imperial factions, whose forces fight alongside other armies of the Emperor. Use the rules, datasheets, wargear and detachments included to add members of the following operatives to any army of the Imperium:

- A full army list for the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas
- Tech-Priest Enginseers and Servitors of the Adeptus Mechanicus
- Valkyries of the Aeronautica Imperialis
- Battle Psykers and Astropaths of the Astra Telepathica
- Priests of the Adeptus Ministorum
- Kill Teams and Corvus Blackstars of the Deathwatch
- Terminator Squads and Nemesis Dreadknights of the Grey Knights
- The Legion of the Damned
- Assassins of the Officio Assassinorum
- Inquisitors of the Inquisition

It's eerie how easy it is to predict how GW will treat Sisters, if you just turn the cynicism knob up to 11.

Of course, in that thread, I also predicted that the Sisters are going Failcrap resin instead of plastic:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The thing that people need to note is that the resin Cannoness is more than 50% more expensive than the current metal one. Obviously, the metal Sisters are grossly underpriced at $8/model, and should be something more like $13/model...

In that context, the upgrade from expensive metal to 5 "Finecast" resin models for $50 is a tremendous savings to the Customer.

Any guesses how right that'll turn out to be?

Celestine appears to be gone - but you can take a Ministorum conclave for Redemptor Kyrinov! Or maybe a unit of Crusaders with their mighty 3-3-3-3 statline and a Storm Shield. CC? GW's got you covered.

Glad i already have my St Celestine. It hasn't come up on the Canadian site yet but from the UK site it seems the Immolator is back! Time to paint up that Dominion Squad I've had lying about.

Celestine is gone from the Imperial Agents codex, but she's still there in the still-valid Adepta Sororitas e-codex. So if you want to use her, use that. There's really sadly not any benefit to Sisters save for a forgettably weak formation rule (a single reroll of a 1 on a save per unit per game) for using the book, it's not a book meant for Sisters players, but for allying things in to other books.

 Melissia wrote:
(a single reroll of a 1 on a save per unit per game)

It's one unit once per game?! I thought it was the whole army all the time. That might've been worthwhile - not hugely cheesy, it's not quite as good as a TEQ save but it helps them survive longer outside their transports.

One unit once per game, though? I'll stick to the CAD I think.

No, the impression I got is each unit gets to reroll 1s once per game. Someone who has the codex actually in front of htem should confirm though once it's shipped. I could be wrong there's been several people saying different things about it.

I wonder what the tax will be? 80 Arco-Flagellants, maybe? 200 Repentia? I don't think GW have sold many of either so it'd give them an avenue to shift some stock.

There's reasonable bitterness, cynicism, and skepticism.. and then there's overblown hyperbole. Assuming you have to take a huge amount of units in a book that's all about smaller formations is kinda silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's what hte person said:

In this section you will find a detachment that lets you take a single Ministorum priest, as well as a new detachment for the girls in armor called the “Vestal Task Force”. Which has the ability to give all units in the detachment the ability to reroll any saving throws of 1 once in a game. Awesome! You are forced to take a compulsory elite option, but it isn’t all that bad because GW gave the sisters access to Deathcult Assassins, Crusaders, and Arco-Flagellents.

The detachment includes a mandatory elite unit, said elite unit can include Arcos but doesn't HAVE to-- you can take Sororitas elites or other ones like DCAs and Crusaders. It's still kinda weak and certianly nowhere NEAR as powerful as the ones Space Marines have, of course. It might push Sisters to maybe be lower-mid-tier at best.

 Melissia wrote:
There's reasonable bitterness, cynicism, and skepticism.. and then there's overblown hyperbole. Assuming you have to take a huge amount of units in a book that's all about smaller formations is kinda silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's what hte person said:

In this section you will find a detachment that lets you take a single Ministorum priest, as well as a new detachment for the girls in armor called the “Vestal Task Force”. Which has the ability to give all units in the detachment the ability to reroll any saving throws of 1 once in a game. Awesome! You are forced to take a compulsory elite option, but it isn’t all that bad because GW gave the sisters access to Deathcult Assassins, Crusaders, and Arco-Flagellents.

After scanning the uninspired (frequently effective, but unimaginative in spite of it) formations that make up Traitor Legions I wouldn't be that surprised.

Yeah, it's a boring, unimaginative detachment created by someone who really didn't feel like putting any effort in to Sisters.

But that's pretty much what we expect of GW.

 Melissia wrote:
There's reasonable bitterness, cynicism, and skepticism.. and then there's overblown hyperbole. Assuming you have to take a huge amount of units in a book that's all about smaller formations is kinda silly.

I may have been joking. Or maybe I wasn't. Fact still is there's an Arco-Flagellant tax on your once-per-game rerolls.

Didn't you say there was more scope for CC units in the Sisters book? Enjoy your Arco-Flagellants!

I started this thread to get away from the same few people arguing about whether the codex will happen and how gak it will be.

You've stated your opinions on this ad nauseum.

Can we have at least one Adpeta Sororitas thread that is positive ?

 adamsouza wrote:
I started this thread to get away from the same few people arguing about whether the codex will happen and how gak it will be.

You've stated your opinions on this ad nauseum.

Can we have at least one Adpeta Sororitas thread that is positive ?

We bounce back into positivity now and again (see the discussion on vehicles and bigger guns a page or two ago).

 BBAP wrote:
Fact still is there's an Arco-Flagellant tax on your once-per-game rerolls.

No, there isn't.

There is an *elite unit* tax. That is to say, you need to take at least one elite choice. Celestians would also work if you prefer to stay within the Sororitas, as would Repentia-- personally I'd go with Celestians because Repentia are in dire need of some method of assault after exiting a vehicle in order to be useful.

For feth's sake, I'm not even asking you to stop being bitter and cynical and skeptical. I'm asking you to look at reality as it actually is, rather than as a hyperbole. Yeah, I get it, this is a mediocre-at-best formation. I agree that it's lame. But knowingly spreading misinformation is unacceptable REGARDLESS.

 adamsouza wrote:
Can we have at least one Adpeta Sororitas thread that is positive ?

You want positivity? Fine.

A mech Sisters army built from the current Sisters Codex isn't that bad in competitive terms. The only reason it's not placing at GTs is because it has some hard counters, namely anything that can kill your army's transports out from under it before it can close into RF range and start chewing things up. It handles GSC fairly well, can bully Gladius players who are relying on Bikes and Grav Cannons to win the day, and if you pack it with TLMM Immos even Flyers aren't that much of an issue.

The fact this new book doesn't replace the old Codex is great - and who knows, there might be something you can do with the other factions that helps make up for the weaknesses in the current book and gives the Sisters a bit of a boost.


I'm still not pre-ordering it though. It's not for nothing that Sisters players complain so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
For feth's sake, I'm not even asking you to stop being bitter and cynical and skeptical. I'm asking you to look at reality as it actually is, rather than as a hyperbole. Yeah, I get it, this is a mediocre-at-best formation. I agree that it's lame. But knowingly spreading misinformation is unacceptable REGARDLESS.

I'll put a smiley face at the end of my post next time I'm quipping, just so people know I don't actually think they'll force you to take 200 Repentia as a tax for your rerolls.

If you want to claim sarcasm or joking, at least make it funny.

 adamsouza wrote:
I started this thread to get away from the same few people arguing about whether the codex will happen and how gak it will be.

You've stated your opinions on this ad nauseum.

Can we have at least one Adpeta Sororitas thread that is positive ?

To be fair its difficult be postive when you are constantly having crap poured on your head and then being told that "its all fine" - especially if those people happen to play Power Dexes.

Good things about the new CIA dex

There are the new Formations - I am happy that we can take a Inqusitor (or other IC?) and they are sanctified enough to have a Shield of Faith - can make soem nice fluff about that.
The other formation appears to allow save re-rolls - not clear if only armour or Shield of Faith as well and I assume that its not FNP. However it is something.

The new Canoness is cool - and has a least a single (apparently very weak) rule.

Thats about as positive as I can be given the k nown facts.

 Melissia wrote:
If you want to claim sarcasm or joking, at least make it funny.

Stay on topic. We're talking about Arco-Flagellants here.

No, we're talking about Sisters of Battle, specifically, about wishlisting for what they could or should have.

So with that topic in mind, how does everyone feel Acts of Faith need to be?

I vastly preferred how they were in Codex: Witch Hunters, with you having a pool of points based on what units you picked ,and spending those points to use acts of faith depending on the size of your unit.

That system is a bit limited and weak in this edition of course, but it could easily be brought back in a stronger way, given that people are already having to keep track of psychic power points. Something similar to that but substantially different could work-- faith being more limited than psychic power, but also doesn't have to test for it and can't be opposed, perhaps?

I don't see what's wrong with just bringing back the old AoF mechanic, other than the fact nobody fields large units of Sisters in anger so you'd end up with half the powers being useless most of the time. It'd also give cacky units like Celestians some purpose again, and make the Canoness look a bit less lacklustre.

 adamsouza wrote:
Can we have at least one Adpeta Sororitas thread that is positive ?

I can think of several positive things:
1. Sisters haven't been Squatted.
2. Sisters got a new Canoness model
3. basic Sisters weren't really pulled from production.
4. basic Sisters are still metal
5. Immolator kit is back
6. Sisters are back in print under Imperial Agents.

As a Dogs of War player, all of that is pretty fantastic stuff. Dunno why people are bitching about any of it.

 BBAP wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with just bringing back the old AoF mechanic, other than the fact nobody fields large units of Sisters in anger so you'd end up with half the powers being useless most of the time

You answered your own question.

Weird...
I think that the 5 Sister "Battle Sister Upgrade" pack is only $8 more than the 3 BS pack that it replaced. Do I have that right?
3 for $27
5 for $35

Yeah the army is notably cheaper now.

 adamsouza wrote:
Can we have at least one Adpeta Sororitas thread that is positive ?

We can have that when GW does something positive with the army instead of throwing them into a "random other stuff" book alongside Codex™: Valkyrie™ Assault™ Carrier™.

 Melissia wrote:

 BBAP wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with just bringing back the old AoF mechanic, other than the fact nobody fields large units of Sisters in anger so you'd end up with half the powers being useless most of the time

You answered your own question.

... with the inferrence that if fixed, the mechanic would be fine. Make big squads a reasonable investment or change it all to a roll-under/ Ld test mechanic. The old Acts were great and all squads having access to all Acts gave you flexibility.

Yeah... the only problem is that you never had enough faith points for an actual army... in an edition that didn't allow allies.
We'll see where sisters are after Imperial Agents... and then we'll see what the new year brings.
I hold out some hope... I'll be painting my metal sisters, buying and painting a few of the returning vehicles. Here's why I'm holding out hope.
As I mentioned earlier... Characters like Celestine were moved to Lord of War status in other books.. it makes sense that she would get similar treatment. I find it incredibly weird that she suddenly went "Last Chance to Buy", and also suddenly went to Sold Out. It is almost like someone thought better of closing out a model that will be obsolete and not in the most current version of the rules.
Second... the immolator's return makes me hopeful too. It has always been an extra sprue for the rhino and already in plastic. It doesn't make sense for it to have vanished from the store when the cost of the mold has already been paid for. Particularly since the Exorcist kit includes the Immolator sprue as well! Plus, this Immolator kit is well priced in comparison with the other available plastic kits.
Thirdly, the new Canoness character. GW clearly heard that people want it. It sold out in many areas within 10 minutes. Even before orders were open, GW announced that it would be made available as a Web Store Exclusive eventually. This shows GW that there is more demand for Sisters than they were likely expecting. (Then again, they seem to be metered in their releases... I can chat more about why I think that they have been doing this, but that is for another post.)
Finally, this whole Imperial Agents release seems to be a way to gauge interest in Sisters... between the "Made to Order" releases and redoing Sisters bundles. It is all advertizing for this line. The price of regular bolter sisters has come down somewhat (look at the 5 Bolters for $35 over what was once 3 for $27) and the prices for special weapons haven't increased. Hopefully, GW will see the interest in this release as increased sales.
No... I don't expect anyone else to be hopeful by these things. Feel free to think and feel what you will. I understand your cynicism and skepticism and know that it is truly justified by experience. I'll choose to be hopeful instead.

 Peregrine wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Can we have at least one Adpeta Sororitas thread that is positive ?

We can have that when GW does something positive with the army instead of throwing them into a "random other stuff" book alongside Codex™: Valkyrie™ Assault™ Carrier™.

See it's actually worse than that since they didn't give the book it's own faction, nothing from the book that's isn't in the same faction as the valk already can start the game in it.

This is codex 'hey what's this thing way in the back here?' ' I don't know, take it if you want it.' 'Oh, no thanks.'