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Made in gb
Armored Iron Breaker






 Yodhrin wrote:
I never understand the whole "there's competition so they're right to give up" thing.


Competition can be a good thing. It can make companies think twice before they put out the price tag.

   
Made in us
Disciplined Sea Guard





United States

I truly wish WHFB would come back, but I doubt that it will. I can dream though, damn it. I am still a hold out at my store with a few like minded souls, we still play 8th regularly. A few do play AoS too but not as much as 8th thank God.

"The world's best swordsman doesn't fear the second best; he fears the worst swordsman, because he can't predict what the idiot will do."-Admiral Honor Harrington (David Weber's take on Twain's original quote) 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

WHFB's return would be amazing and would herald a new golden age for fantasy gamers and GW alike. Crowds would flock to the stores in eager anticipation, ready to start playing again and sales would rise massively.
sadly it will never happen.

GW has moved on to AoS (otherwise known as "push models to the centre and make fighty noises whilst rolling some dice") which is pretty much a dumbed down game with zero tactical depth whatsoever (despite the claims of many players). I have heard people say that it has depth because you have objectives to capture or goals to achieve, but in all honesty this is rubbish. Terrain has no effect on movement or shooting, your unit is basically a blob of skirmishers and flanking is no longer a thing. Furthermore the game has pretty much come down to "take the biggest nastiest power units and stomp" as anything less will be wiped from the board.
Tactical movement? Choosing between charging and getting the initiative or shooting to soften up but receiving the charge in return? Watching your flanks, ensuring you have covering units in the rear? All gone now kiddo's, your units can move any which way, terrain does not effect them and you can shoot into combat so why not charge! Flanks, who needs those amiright!?!

No, I miss the old days and long for their return, but AoS is here to stay. GW caters to children and it is far easier to sell a game that plays like a computer game than a game that requires any actual thinking. All we oldtimers can do is sit back and remember the days of amassed blocks, flanking charges and mind games, and the major decision of whether to charge or not.

Or, you know, just carry on playing the older editions/9th age and do our best to forget about toyhammer.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 master of ordinance wrote:
WHFB's return would be amazing and would herald a new golden age for fantasy gamers and GW alike. Crowds would flock to the stores in eager anticipation, ready to start playing again and sales would rise massively.
sadly it will never happen.

GW has moved on to AoS (otherwise known as "push models to the centre and make fighty noises whilst rolling some dice") which is pretty much a dumbed down game with zero tactical depth whatsoever (despite the claims of many players). I have heard people say that it has depth because you have objectives to capture or goals to achieve, but in all honesty this is rubbish. Terrain has no effect on movement or shooting, your unit is basically a blob of skirmishers and flanking is no longer a thing. Furthermore the game has pretty much come down to "take the biggest nastiest power units and stomp" as anything less will be wiped from the board.
Tactical movement? Choosing between charging and getting the initiative or shooting to soften up but receiving the charge in return? Watching your flanks, ensuring you have covering units in the rear? All gone now kiddo's, your units can move any which way, terrain does not effect them and you can shoot into combat so why not charge! Flanks, who needs those amiright!?!

No, I miss the old days and long for their return, but AoS is here to stay. GW caters to children and it is far easier to sell a game that plays like a computer game than a game that requires any actual thinking. All we oldtimers can do is sit back and remember the days of amassed blocks, flanking charges and mind games, and the major decision of whether to charge or not.

Or, you know, just carry on playing the older editions/9th age and do our best to forget about toyhammer.


Nothing quite like hyperbole and throwing all your toys out of the pram is there?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Terrain has no effect on movement or shooting,


It does have an effect on those things and it's encouraged to put lots of scenery and terrain down to give armies more tactical options.

Heck, scenery even have their own warscrolls.

(And sales are already rising massively, haha)
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Baron Klatz wrote:

Terrain has no effect on movement or shooting,


It does have an effect on those things and it's encouraged to put lots of scenery and terrain down to give armies more tactical options.

Heck, scenery even have their own warscrolls.

(And sales are already rising massively, haha)


You know at some point people are going to start giving AoS fans a taste of their own medicine and demand they bog off to their own corner of the forum and stop bothering WHF fans in ours(with the main difference being this place is actually supposed to be ours, the mods didn't just appropriate it from AoS fans on our behalf and banish you lot while keeping loads of AoS threads in the old forum to artificially inflate its initial popularity).

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in au
Steadfast Grey Hunter




 master of ordinance wrote:
WHFB's return would be amazing and would herald a new golden age for fantasy gamers and GW alike. Crowds would flock to the stores in eager anticipation, ready to start playing again and sales would rise massively.
sadly it will never happen.

GW has moved on to AoS (otherwise known as "push models to the centre and make fighty noises whilst rolling some dice") which is pretty much a dumbed down game with zero tactical depth whatsoever (despite the claims of many players). I have heard people say that it has depth because you have objectives to capture or goals to achieve, but in all honesty this is rubbish. Terrain has no effect on movement or shooting, your unit is basically a blob of skirmishers and flanking is no longer a thing. Furthermore the game has pretty much come down to "take the biggest nastiest power units and stomp" as anything less will be wiped from the board.
Tactical movement? Choosing between charging and getting the initiative or shooting to soften up but receiving the charge in return? Watching your flanks, ensuring you have covering units in the rear? All gone now kiddo's, your units can move any which way, terrain does not effect them and you can shoot into combat so why not charge! Flanks, who needs those amiright!?!

No, I miss the old days and long for their return, but AoS is here to stay. GW caters to children and it is far easier to sell a game that plays like a computer game than a game that requires any actual thinking. All we oldtimers can do is sit back and remember the days of amassed blocks, flanking charges and mind games, and the major decision of whether to charge or not.

Or, you know, just carry on playing the older editions/9th age and do our best to forget about toyhammer.


Looks like we found the guy that set his army on fire after AoS dropped
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nah, way too sane sounding to be him. He moved on to Warmahordes anyway.

@Yodhrin, just correcting a mistake on the rules. I'd expect the same thing on the AoS thread about Old hammer.

We're fellow hobbyists, not enemies.
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 Yodhrin wrote:
Baron Klatz wrote:

Terrain has no effect on movement or shooting,


It does have an effect on those things and it's encouraged to put lots of scenery and terrain down to give armies more tactical options.

Heck, scenery even have their own warscrolls.

(And sales are already rising massively, haha)


You know at some point people are going to start giving AoS fans a taste of their own medicine and demand they bog off to their own corner of the forum and stop bothering WHF fans in ours(with the main difference being this place is actually supposed to be ours, the mods didn't just appropriate it from AoS fans on our behalf and banish you lot while keeping loads of AoS threads in the old forum to artificially inflate its initial popularity).


Dude... that's just lame. Do you think anyone in the forums cares about the traffic they get? Except the staff of course. Learn to love, not to hate.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/21 16:38:55


 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Nothing quite like hyperbole and throwing all your toys out of the pram is there?

Ah look, the first of the inevitable AoS fanboy's flocking to tell us why AoS is so good and WHFB is inherently bad by default. You know, AoS fans are to Fantasy as /pol/ is to 4chan. We give them their own (quite extensive) bit and let them be but they just cannot resist butting into every other fantasy thread and spewing their tripe everywhere.

Baron Klatz wrote:

It does have an effect on those things and it's encouraged to put lots of scenery and terrain down to give armies more tactical options.

Heck, scenery even have their own warscrolls.

(And sales are already rising massively, haha)

Last time I played (on a friends birthday) the terrain had zero effect. So going from my experience it does not, and even if it does the nature of movement within the game allows units to simply walk around smaller chunks.

motski wrote:
Looks like we found the guy that set his army on fire after AoS dropped

Nope, sadly I dont have that much money to (literally) burn
Still, my Dwarfs, Skaven, High Elves and Brettonians have all been largely relegated to storage, baring the odd fantasy game that I manage to snatch.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So going from my experience it does not, and even if it does the nature of movement within the game allows units to simply walk around smaller chunks. 


So taking from that example you had tiny bits of terrain neither suited for chokepoints, blocking LoS nor breaking up a formation but would've gotten in the way of rank and file troops who couldn't seperate.

If that's the case I could see why it didn't effect the game.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

I really am wondering if the age of ranked battles is just no more. I converted over to Kings of War, only to realize that game is just not getting adopted here (or, largely, in much of the US).

Rune Wars did not get a stellar reception, and I'm wondering how Game of Thrones will do? It's a shame because it's my favorite game type. At this point, I'm wondering if maybe it can only succeed at a smaller scale, so the time/money investment in creating an army isn't so steep. Without the established market that was WHFB, it seems to be a big ask / huge barrier to entry for other games to succeed with this model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/21 17:57:19


 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 master of ordinance wrote:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Nothing quite like hyperbole and throwing all your toys out of the pram is there?

Ah look, the first of the inevitable AoS fanboy's flocking to tell us why AoS is so good and WHFB is inherently bad by default. You know, AoS fans are to Fantasy as /pol/ is to 4chan. We give them their own (quite extensive) bit and let them be but they just cannot resist butting into every other fantasy thread and spewing their tripe everywhere.

Baron Klatz wrote:

It does have an effect on those things and it's encouraged to put lots of scenery and terrain down to give armies more tactical options.

Heck, scenery even have their own warscrolls.

(And sales are already rising massively, haha)

Last time I played (on a friends birthday) the terrain had zero effect. So going from my experience it does not, and even if it does the nature of movement within the game allows units to simply walk around smaller chunks.

motski wrote:
Looks like we found the guy that set his army on fire after AoS dropped

Nope, sadly I dont have that much money to (literally) burn
Still, my Dwarfs, Skaven, High Elves and Brettonians have all been largely relegated to storage, baring the odd fantasy game that I manage to snatch.


I honestly find it funny you virtually resort to strawmaning and namecalling to argue with others that have said nothing on the matter.

On another point, having plenty of terrain, AND giving them the rules they can get, does add a ton of fun there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/21 18:13:20


 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

Baron Klatz wrote:

So going from my experience it does not, and even if it does the nature of movement within the game allows units to simply walk around smaller chunks. 


So taking from that example you had tiny bits of terrain neither suited for chokepoints, blocking LoS nor breaking up a formation but would've gotten in the way of rank and file troops who couldn't seperate.

If that's the case I could see why it didn't effect the game.


Might be - I dont recall the table being terrain heavy. That said most of the AoS and 40K games played at my club tand to be what I would call terrain-lite

Lord Kragan wrote:

I honestly find it funny you virtually resort to strawmaning and namecalling to argue with others that have said nothing on the matter.

On another point, having plenty of terrain, AND giving them the rules they can get, does add a ton of fun there.

Yup, definitely /pol/ing.
Please call up one example in the post that you quoted where I strawmanned and resorted to baseless namecalling against others whom have said nothing on the matter. You do know where you are right? This is the WHFB Legacy Discussion board, not the AoS boards. If you want to talk about how great AoS is then go to the AoS boards, goddess knows you've got plenty of them to choose from. If you will insist on coming here then at least accept that a lot of long time fantasy players (including myself) are very salty about the game and world we loved so much being blown up and being replaced (from our perspective) by something that was comparatively shallow.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in au
Steadfast Grey Hunter




 Yodhrin wrote:

You know at some point people are going to start giving AoS fans a taste of their own medicine and demand they bog off to their own corner of the forum and stop bothering WHF fans in ours(with the main difference being this place is actually supposed to be ours, the mods didn't just appropriate it from AoS fans on our behalf and banish you lot while keeping loads of AoS threads in the old forum to artificially inflate its initial popularity).


No one told you to "bog off" when you started that thread on TGA a few months ago, at least not at first.

Anyway it's pretty hilarious you're claiming this forum as your own little safe space that those evil AoS fans aren't allowed to bother you in. Whatever happened to discussion forums being for discussing things?

 Yodhrin wrote:

Oh, so just yet another person who seems to have forgotten that this is a discussion forum for discussing things, and not the inside of their own head.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Smoked him! XD
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

Baron Klatz wrote:
Smoked him! XD

Jolly good spot of beating there fine chap, now Umbubu be a good chap and fetch myself and the Baron our Sigmarite guns will you?

On a more serious note, Motski, you have no right to come on to this board and start spouting things like "your little safe space" at us. If you want to feel all rosy and talk about AoS then go there. This board, not forum, board is dedicated to WHFB. Thats WarHammer Fantasy Battles. Not AoS or Age of Sigmar.If you want to talk about AoS then feel free to visit the entire subforum dedicated to it and post there, but do not come to our last little bit of land and start insulting us, shouting accusations and in all general aspects behaving like a true asshat. Feel free to post constructively, have a laugh and talk about the subject at hand, but do not attempt to derail threads with screams of AoSfanboism.
We do not like AoS.
You do.
We are on a WHFB board.
You are also on a WHFB board.
Now, can you tell me who might be in the wrong environment here?

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 master of ordinance wrote:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Nothing quite like hyperbole and throwing all your toys out of the pram is there?

Ah look, the first of the inevitable AoS fanboy's flocking to tell us why AoS is so good and WHFB is inherently bad by default. You know, AoS fans are to Fantasy as /pol/ is to 4chan. We give them their own (quite extensive) bit and let them be but they just cannot resist butting into every other fantasy thread and spewing their tripe everywhere.

Baron Klatz wrote:

It does have an effect on those things and it's encouraged to put lots of scenery and terrain down to give armies more tactical options.

Heck, scenery even have their own warscrolls.

(And sales are already rising massively, haha)

Last time I played (on a friends birthday) the terrain had zero effect. So going from my experience it does not, and even if it does the nature of movement within the game allows units to simply walk around smaller chunks.

motski wrote:
Looks like we found the guy that set his army on fire after AoS dropped

Nope, sadly I dont have that much money to (literally) burn
Still, my Dwarfs, Skaven, High Elves and Brettonians have all been largely relegated to storage, baring the odd fantasy game that I manage to snatch.


I don't believe i mentioned either AoS being good or WFB being bad. As it is i've been a WFB player since 3rd edition and an AoS player since it's beginning and still enjoy both. I was just pointing out a whiny and pathetic little child who can't get over themselves. But then you are a channer, so that explains you pretty well frankly.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Jolly good spot of beating there fine chap, now Umbubu be a good chap and fetch myself and the Baron our Sigmarite guns will you? 


I say, are the guns for a sporting hunt together with a spot of Cathayan tea or are we having a bit of a gentlemen's duel with a a five paced firing at sun's first light?
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 master of ordinance wrote:
Baron Klatz wrote:

So going from my experience it does not, and even if it does the nature of movement within the game allows units to simply walk around smaller chunks. 


So taking from that example you had tiny bits of terrain neither suited for chokepoints, blocking LoS nor breaking up a formation but would've gotten in the way of rank and file troops who couldn't seperate.

If that's the case I could see why it didn't effect the game.


Might be - I dont recall the table being terrain heavy. That said most of the AoS and 40K games played at my club tand to be what I would call terrain-lite

Lord Kragan wrote:

I honestly find it funny you virtually resort to strawmaning and namecalling to argue with others that have said nothing on the matter.

On another point, having plenty of terrain, AND giving them the rules they can get, does add a ton of fun there.

Yup, definitely /pol/ing.
Please call up one example in the post that you quoted where I strawmanned and resorted to baseless namecalling against others whom have said nothing on the matter. You do know where you are right? This is the WHFB Legacy Discussion board, not the AoS boards. If you want to talk about how great AoS is then go to the AoS boards, goddess knows you've got plenty of them to choose from. If you will insist on coming here then at least accept that a lot of long time fantasy players (including myself) are very salty about the game and world we loved so much being blown up and being replaced (from our perspective) by something that was comparatively shallow.


Okay, you're calling people the worst cancer of the internet. Twice. You also went on and commented how he was coming here to say how AoS was the bestest thing and WHFB was bad... despite him saying NOTHING in the matter. You honestly have no right to demand others being understanding when you're being this much of a prick when the other (not, me I'm not free of blame, tbh) DIDN'T INVITE IT. Same goes for the constructiveness claims, something you didn't do either.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/21 22:04:32


 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Woah guys definitely violating some rules here. Don't make me call a mod for all of you.

I still dislike AoS myself but i haven't really played Fantasy either since GW killed it. While it pissed me off greatly i can accept some people play AoS. However not many are playing in the store. Far as i can see the numbers don't really seem all that different to Fantasy Battles which leads me to question why they didn't just kill off both games. However considering the fallout from Fantasy dying i imagine that's probably why they didn't kill AoS too. I think you AoS players should understand i probably spent well over a thousand dollars for WFB and being told it's the only game i can't play at GW and that i have to convert to AoS isn't fair or nice. If AoS didn't live off our dead game i wouldn't have cared. You guys could've played Ball Fondling the game for all i care. However it did live off the death of our game and it basically added all the things i disliked about 40k to it and then threw in some more for good measure. It's like seeing the Star Wars original trilogy get trampled by the prequel trilogy only this time you had to spend 1,000 dollars and now you have to convert over. It wasn't an easy thing for us. I basically just dropped fantasy and went to 40k but i look to maybe have a couple games of Fantasy 8th ed on universal battle when i can.

Also please don't throw out some of those WHFB to AoS statistics. I've seen how many people play in our store and it's as many or less than WHFB was when Fantasy died (though it is 2 years after Fantasy died). Also Total War Warhammer is extremely successful so clearly it's popular just maybe GW marketed their version of the game poorly. I'm not even saying WHFB was not a failing game. It clearly needed a reboot i just think AoS wasn't it or they could go about it like 30k is for 40k and just add it to the forge world site and let both games live. I'm being nice here rather than the kill one or another type behavior.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/22 02:15:10


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Also please don't throw out some of those WHFB to AoS statistics. I've seen how many people play in our store and it's as many or less than WHFB was when Fantasy died


You do see the hypocrisy here, right?

Anyway, I just popped in for a rule clarification. If you guys went on more about how great Wfb was and cast less stones at AoS then there would be no need for us to even comment here.

   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Baron Klatz wrote:

Also please don't throw out some of those WHFB to AoS statistics. I've seen how many people play in our store and it's as many or less than WHFB was when Fantasy died


You do see the hypocrisy here, right?

Anyway, I just popped in for a rule clarification. If you guys went on more about how great Wfb was and cast less stones at AoS then there would be no need for us to even comment here.



I also said that it was 2 years after fantasy died that i saw those numbers. It's probably too far down the road to tell if it's as popular when you judge 2 years after the fact.

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Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

I don't believe i mentioned either AoS being good or WFB being bad. As it is i've been a WFB player since 3rd edition and an AoS player since it's beginning and still enjoy both. I was just pointing out a whiny and pathetic little child who can't get over themselves. But then you are a channer, so that explains you pretty well frankly.

Ouch, you sound upset. At what point did I start whining like a child? As I recall I put forward my own views on the subject and was promptly attacked by the AoS diehards insisting that I had to be wrong.
Anyway, what is wrong with 4chan? Oh yes, it is a veritable haven of spite and faggotry, but there are also good bits. /tg/ for instance, and I have gotten involved with several online RPG's thanks to various anon's advertising them in threads.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Okay, you're calling people the worst cancer of the internet. Twice. You also went on and commented how he was coming here to say how AoS was the bestest thing and WHFB was bad... despite him saying NOTHING in the matter. You honestly have no right to demand others being understanding when you're being this much of a prick when the other (not, me I'm not free of blame, tbh) DIDN'T INVITE IT. Same goes for the constructiveness claims, something you didn't do either.

No, I commented on how their posting antics take up a similar attitude, namely they come to a completely jappy and innocent board, pick a thread and then start posting in it, telling people about how bad X is, etc, and then get butthurt when they are told to get out, finally resorting to baseless insults.
I actually believe that the people I quoted did come here precisely to defend AoS and attack the WHFB fans, of course that was my interpretation and I may be wrong.
Hahahaha, me being the prick. Pot calling the kettle, no?
Constructive claims? List them. All I got was "AoS is GREAT, you should accept it and your views dont count unles you do"

Baron Klatz wrote:

Jolly good spot of beating there fine chap, now Umbubu be a good chap and fetch myself and the Baron our Sigmarite guns will you? 


I say, are the guns for a sporting hunt together with a spot of Cathayan tea or are we having a bit of a gentlemen's duel with a a five paced firing at sun's first light?

Quite so good sir, and may I complement you on your choice of dress today. That hunting jacket is such a spiffing shade of red. Now, shall it be my pistol set or yours good sir?

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

This has become just a back and forth with no real discussion happening (along with some rude posts, too) so I'm going to lock it up...
   
 
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