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Overrated!

Morty+10 Deathshroud (the FIRST and BEST 2 wound terminators )+Primus Medicae. Have 'em jog up the board, or just behind a gun line, warp Morty out to stab things that he deems fun to stab. See? almost every Primarch can do the silly "10 big things + him and a medicae"

A really fun "deathstar" of sorts would be a 10-man heavy support squad with Seige Breaker and Master of Signal. 10 lascannons or Multi-meltas with sunder, wrecker, and BS: 5, or something cheaper like MLs or Autocannons to just shred anything dumb enough to come within ~48"

On the topic of quad mortars:

In my experience the counters are things they can't kill easily. Mechanicum, Solar Auxilia, and anyone AV14 or above.

As a predominantly meched-up WE player, quad mortars don't really change my plan. I'm building around engaging ASAP to bust up firebases and keeping fire off my infantry anyway. If you're fielding a gunline or have a lot of infantry standing or milling around, then sure...they'll ruin your day.

As a horde WE player they don't really change my plan either. I'll still be charging headlong towards the enemy. Quad mortars will the the first target of my drop podding leviathan though

Rapier's with Quad Mortars are feared by a lot of players because most Legions have at least two giant blobs of infantry (in many cases, 40+) on the table. There isn't much terrain on a board that can hide that many models. Most players can't get over the idea of losing a lot of infantry in a turn, despite the fact that all that infantry pretty much just sits there on the table anyways and gets removed over the entire game, but they are usually not a priority target. No one in 30K or 40K likes being the recipient of an indirect fire barrage, and if you don't have any indirect fire in your list, it really feels like a one sided exchange.

For me, I'm happy if my opponent is shooting my Legion Tactical squads with his Quad Mortars. It means he is ignoring my Reaver Squads and Justerins- the models that win me the game. Plus, there are so many counters to a unit that has to stay still to be effective, and seeing that some of the shots from the Rapier has to have LoS, you can look at the table and make a good guess as to where your opponent will be placing Rapiers.

 edbradders wrote:
As a horde WE player they don't really change my plan either. I'll still be charging headlong towards the enemy. Quad mortars will the the first target of my drop podding leviathan though

There you go!

Imo Firedrakes are the best star Terminators due to storm shields, 2W and Vulkan being a generally superb Primarch to accompany such a squad.

My favorite deathstar is Anacharis Scoria (on the Xanathine Abeyant) accompanied by 3 Thanatar-Cynis automata and another Dominus for repairs, all in one T8 2+/3++/5+++ unit (unless the enemy ignores the closest model for shooting, then it's just T8 2+/5++).

In shooting that's 11 Str 6 AP3 shots, 2 Str 6 AP2 shots, 1 Flamer or Inferno pistol, and 12 Str 8 AP2 small blasts that force cover save re-rolls, though they admittedly have Gets Hot.

In combat (presuming the charge), if Scoria gets off his power, that's 5 swings at I6, rerolling hits, that do d3 automatic wounds (or 1 automatic hull point) per hit, 9 Str 8 AP2 swings or 3 Str 10 AP2 swings with tank hunter at I4, also re-rolling to hit, and then a couple of extra power weapon attacks for the lulz. Oh, and 3 Str 8 AP- hammer of wrath attacks, again assuming the charge.

And how many points is that squad?

Thanatar are slow. They are not GMCs, so no Stomp. I'd just tarpit them with allied 2pt cult levies and watch that 1000+ point deathstar do nothing but ineffectually get their pseudo-D swings against a 50 strong fearless fodder squad.

If you shoot at them it's a waste. If you charge them it's also a waste. If you do neither, they will charge you.

Love that squad. Should maybe get a second.

That said, Yeah, Scoria is a combination of generally overstatted/underpriced/overpowered (take your pick). Mechanicum already had vast numbers of very good vehicles and MC (why isn't the Thanatar a walker?), they didn't need a mary sue primarch+ as well. We already had a big thread on that.

Worst unit I can field is a kitted out Lord Marshal with MC Paragon Blade, grav-wave, displacer matrix, eternal warrior and the like, backed up by Aevos Jovan, a squad of Household Retinue with power axes and shroud bombs, tucked in a Stormlord.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And how many points is that squad?

Thanatar are slow. They are not GMCs, so no Stomp. I'd just tarpit them with allied 2pt cult levies and watch that 1000+ point deathstar do nothing but ineffectually get their pseudo-D swings against a 50 strong fearless fodder squad.

If you shoot at them it's a waste. If you charge them it's also a waste. If you do neither, they will charge you.

Love that squad. Should maybe get a second.

That said, Yeah, Scoria is a combination of generally overstatted/underpriced/overpowered (take your pick). Mechanicum already had vast numbers of very good vehicles and MC (why isn't the Thanatar a walker?), they didn't need a mary sue primarch+ as well. We already had a big thread on that.

Yes, it can be countered like every deathstar in the game, and isn't scoring like them either. While we're talking weaknesses, it's also weak to people who simply stay out of range, it lacks firepower against heavy armour lists like some Solar Auxilia ones.

But IMO it's still the best deathstar in a deathstar vs. deathstar showdown and more importantly, it's awesome.

 Formosa wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:



Then you'd be wrong, as its not about effctivness, as you probably know a lot of people migrated over to 30k originaly to get away from the mess that is 40 k (something the players are also responsible for), 30k is more laid back, you can take those less optimal units because , hey, so does you opponent, I try to reiterate this whenever anyone asks me about 30k, it's a different game and so far it doesn't suffer from the stupid arms race and waac mentality that has ruined 40k for a lot of people.

Pre calth, all I used to see was "fluff list this" now that its easier to get into 30k (which is great) sadly the 40k mindset is starting to infect the game, also thankfully it's not sticking and I see others on here and elsewhere that this is not 40k, and it needs to be seen differently, which most 40k gamers seem to go along with, some don't, it's there loss when they can't find games.

You nailed it, Man. Everything I left 40k for back at the start is now bleeding in to 30k. Posts used to be about how to best the build armies of Black Library, now they are nothing but mirrors of 40k (Deathstars, "effectivness", etc).

****

Regarding Quad-Mortars, I always had good results with my IM&C - 5" blasts with multiple Battlecannon and Demolishers tend to get multiple hits on Artillery units, wipe out the annoying two infantry out front and start killing guns pretty quickly. I'd often just make them a priority in Turn 1.

Of course, that isn't much help against someone bringing 12, but if someone ever does that I'll be happy to deploy one single unit in open ground and let then win in turn one.

You bring a dick list, you don't get to play a game. Bonus points for getting them to set up their whole army first...

Vulkan, 10 Firedrakes, 10 Pyroclast and Nomus Rhy'tan in a Mastadon

Any primarch, with a bodyguard and a primus Medicare is a automatic death star to begin with.

However said one often needs a heavy transport and as a lord of war, you have just tied up a good percentage.

Plus the 25% rule if your using that...
That adds up to maybe what 1000 points?

Even minus that rule 2-300 points that adds up to one unit taking up a good chunk of army..

Even smashing gak out of a unit. Its a waste unless its got somthibf expensive to smash.

Basically that death star might kill gak but not win the game.

Angron, Kharn, Red Butchers or Rampagers in a steel coffin.
Dont leave your Death Star unsupported.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Horus with twelve of his justaerian, Guilliman with a full unit of Suzerains, Etc. In a spartan.

Throw in an apothecary/chaplain if you have room.

Personally I like Firedrakes best for this approach. Other Legions' Terminators may hit as hard, others may have multiple Wounds, or WS5, and the Imperial Fists can have the storm shields, but the Firedrakes are the only Legion Terminators that toss all of the hitting power and durability together in one package.

(They're also 580pts for ten with shields and powerfists (625 with hammers), so there is a downside. Also in the interests of full disclosure I am a Salamanders player and may just be tooting my own Legion's horn, so this may need to be taken with a grain of salt.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brennonjw wrote:
...See? almost every Primarch can do the silly "10 big things + him and a medicae" ...

Except Ferrus doesn't need to. Gorgon Terminators have the FNP already, they can leave the Primus Medicae at home.

Assuming 'ten Terminators and a Primarch' is the easy answer and we should find some less obvious ones a Salamanders Praetor makes for a pretty brutal beatstick anywhere you put him with Dragonscale for a 3++ and the Mantle for EW, were I to be gamist and unfluffy (Salamanders traditionally avoid anti-grav tech since it doesn't work properly on Nocturne) I could concoct a Praetor/Primus Medicae/Command Squad unit on Jetbikes for T5, 2+ armour, speed, and heavy bolters. It'd be about 700-750pts and entirely too many eggs in one basket, like most of these units, but that still puts it at half the price of Vulkan, a Primus Medicae, and ten Firedrakes in a Spartan.

Wandering further afield and further down into the budget zone Stone Gauntlet Phalanx Warders (twenty T5 Breachers starting at around 400pts, with the option for 5pt combi-weapons and 10pt power axes) seem like an interesting place to start.