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 Killionaire wrote:

The construction is a new style we should see more often, but the art design is not.

Got to say, I'm really not a fan of the construction style of the Outrage minis. Not enough flexibility to do conversions and the like.
However the Outrage minis are unique as well, not just from a more cartoony (ie N1/N2 era style), but because they are more display pieces than anything. Emphasised more so by the lack of rules these guys have...

The minis from the Beyond boxes go together incredibly well. As someone who doesn't particularly like assembling models I'm fine with the lack of flexibility for conversions. Having said that there's a pretty inspirational conversion thread on the official forums. The quality of the newer metal Infinity models is absolutely fantastic, and I've never had to pin anything.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
The minis from the Beyond boxes go together incredibly well. As someone who doesn't particularly like assembling models I'm fine with the lack of flexibility for conversions. Having said that there's a pretty inspirational conversion thread on the official forums. The quality of the newer metal Infinity models is absolutely fantastic, and I've never had to pin anything.

Inspirational as to what not to do in many cases, certainly.

You and I have two very different ideas of "the new cut" if you think that the Dog-Warrior looks like {pic}Or that the ninja looks like a male version of the Red Veil one.

In other news I'm also very upset that the new Bolt paramedic from Beyond is sculpted nothing like the Fusiliers from Op:Icestorm. And did you guys know that the new Riot Grrls don't look anything at all like the Mobile Brigadas redesign!? It's so weird that a new character doesn't match the design of a completely different unit of the same army, but that is DOES match the intended design. I mean, don't let the fact that the character is an Oniwaban stand in the way of him not looking like a Ninja, it's just shameful that CB would allow that /rolleyes

Seriously though, Nakadai is the best fig in the set. It's been a while, I can't remember if they called him out in the manga as an oniwaban or just describe him as a ninja, but it hardly matters since he's clearly an oniwaban design, as was Shinobu. A group of rando mercs aren't going to know the difference and apparently neither do internet loudmouths that can't understand why people could possibly have different taste in aesthetics

Also, these same loudmouths apparently think Domovoi somehow looks more like this

than he does this

So their opinions are basically as valuable as flat-earthers and 9/11 truthers

 Kalamadea wrote:

You and I have two very different ideas of "the new cut" if you think that the Dog-Warrior looks like {pic}Or that the ninja looks like a male version of the Red Veil one.

In other news I'm also very upset that the new Bolt paramedic from Beyond is sculpted nothing like the Fusiliers from Op:Icestorm.

Bolts are Medium Infantry while Fusiliers are Light Infantry.
Your hyperbolic strawman would work better if you had, say, compared the new Bolt Paramedic to the Bagh-Mari...oh wait a second, those two do look similar since they're shared designs...

And did you guys know that the new Riot Grrls don't look anything at all like the Mobile Brigadas redesign!?

Why would they? Riot Grrls are Bakunin while Mobile Brigadas are Corregidor.

/sarcasm

It's so weird that a new character doesn't match the design of a completely different unit of the same army, but that is DOES match the intended design. I mean, don't let the fact that the character is an Oniwaban stand in the way of him not looking like a Ninja, it's just shameful that CB would allow that /rolleyes

Except that they went out of their way to establish a new visual aesthetic for the Ninja, yet chose to keep him in line with the original 2nd edition models instead in terms of color palette and several other factors(i.e. the "cartoony" style of face).

Seriously though, Nakadai is the best fig in the set. It's been a while, I can't remember if they called him out in the manga as an oniwaban or just describe him as a ninja, but it hardly matters since he's clearly an oniwaban design, as was Shinobu. A group of rando mercs aren't going to know the difference and apparently neither do internet loudmouths that can't understand why people could possibly have different taste in aesthetics

He gets called out as an Oniwaban. He also wears a helmet with an Oni design in most of the manga.

Also worth mentioning that the Oniwaban(both the character Shinobi Kitsune and the "generic" Oniwaban) very closely matched the design of the Ninja models at the time, with the main
difference being that the Oniwaban had the baggy hama pants rather than the armored leggings that the Ninja have.

Also, these same loudmouths apparently think Domovoi somehow looks more like this

Spoiler:

than he does this

Spoiler:

So their opinions are basically as valuable as flat-earthers and 9/11 truthers

Domovoi sure as hell looks closer to the original than the current ones, in terms of the actual sculpt. You can make the argument that it's got the "updated" gear...but it still looks like a 1990s GW sculpt.

Also, lol@equating my opinion to conspiracy theorists. Cute absurdist argument.

Hardly absurdist as you've just proven my point exactly. A whole post that can be boiled down to "You're right, he IS an Oniwaban, not a Ninja". The figure should therefore NOT look like a ninja. And if a person thinks the only difference between these 2 designs is some baggy pants then any opinions they draw about "figure quality" will be taken about as seriously as chemtrails and faked moon landings.

At this point, it seems you're just interested in picking a fight. Have fun with that.

No, no fights, just challenging those ugly blanket statements intended to troll and the weak arguments attempting to back them up. You've got to present more than "I don't like it so NOBODY SHOULD LIKE IT!" as a case

 dulydude wrote:

Got to say, I'm really not a fan of the construction style of the Outrage minis. Not enough flexibility to do conversions and the like.]

I dunno, I've never found any of the Infinity minis to be very easy to convert even with older style socket joints, both because of how fiddly they can be and because of how few compatible miniatures ranges there are. Closest it comes is things like the ORC trooper & Aquilla Guard, buying a 2nd of both and simply swapping out the HMG and Multi-rifle arms. It only works well when both figures are already very similar, or you have pretty good sculpting skills. Many Infinity conversions come out looking really awkward even with the higher part count figs or the older ball & socket joints. Different conversation, but i'd rather keep the set-poses and go to alternate arms/weapons to change up the pose, much like the Myrmidon Officer or Achilles 2.0 (if you hadn't gotten 2 bodies but instead just the arms and had to choose)

The peg joints on the CAD sculpted models are more limiting (and the sub-assembly style of the Outrage figs even moreso) but they go together much better than those older figures with the socket joins. And even then, the super dynamic ones like that new Op:RV Ninja have so many small parts that they're still a royal PITA. Fewer parts would limit either that pose or the detail level, but that's a tradeoff I'd make. That's all personal preference of course, but I don't need every figure dancing about on one foot, in fact I'd love a few more to have both feet on the ground with enough space to actually pin the feet to the base. Or figures that are essentially just standing there, I'd MUCH rather have the Com-tech HVT in a single or 2 piece cast like Outrage, no reason she needed to have separate arms. I'm glad to see CB moving that direction with Outrage and Beyond stuff

 dulydude wrote:

Got to say, I'm really not a fan of the construction style of the Outrage minis. Not enough flexibility to do conversions and the like.

Thats pretty much Infinity and Corvus Belli miniatures in general.

They don't make models for even half the profiles available much of the time, forcing people to either Proxy(and its why their tournament packet is so lenient on them) or convert. yet their actual miniatures are a PITA to convert. Not to mention expensive so you often end up spending $20+ just to convert one model.

That's a very real problem, and a problem far beyond just the mono-poses issue. Rant in spoiler, TL : DR version is: I wish they'd just put more weapons and heads in the darn blisters already!

This thread needs to cool the heck down, thanks.
Ease up

 motyak wrote:
This thread needs to cool the heck down, thanks.
Ease up

Wilco!


@Kalamadea and Grey Templar
I'm going to politely disagree with your opinions of the lack of flexibility...but then again maybe I'm just a sucker for pain and don't mind suffering to make those missing profiles. One of the first things I do when I get minis is see how well the arms fit with other minis and etc; hell I've kept a log of parts so I can figure out what bits are best to use for conversions and arm/head swaps!!!

@Kalamadea, I totally 100% agree with your spoiler'ed comments though. I wish they would do those sort of things so your swc box has parts to make up to (using Fusiliers as an example): 4 regular combis, 2 hackers (male+female), 2 HMGs, 2 MSRs, 2 MLs, 2 combi+lgl, 2 paramedics (as a side bag to add), 2 FOs (as something to add to the combi). Make all those parts compatible with the fusiliers in your starter box and you now have the ability to create your fusiliers how you want and how you would use them. Lets be honest, I want my individual minis in a skirmish game to look unique from each other! I want a male and female HMG so I know which mini has a better track record! I want to have spare parts to make my spec ops look like MY spec ops!!!
Sure you end up with spare bits afterwards, but personally I have no issue with that.

Sure, some of the arms swap nicely. Others don't. Especially some of the crazier poses. And it means that if you are doing a weapon swap, it usually means you are destroying another model which costs $15-20. It's expensive to convert CB miniatures since they don't make their stuff modular for the most part and nothing other than spec ops comes with extra options.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sure, some of the arms swap nicely. Others don't. Especially some of the crazier poses. And it means that if you are doing a weapon swap, it usually means you are destroying another model which costs $15-20.

Not just the crazier poses.

You can't even armswap on the Marauders box, as the "standing" poses use a different 'key' for their arm sets than the "running" poses.
And that doesn't even take into account whether or not it's a male or female model since CB designs weapons in different scales.

It's expensive to convert CB miniatures since they don't make their stuff modular for the most part and nothing other than spec ops comes with extra options.

Small correction, there is some stuff that comes with extra options. The Myrmidon Officer, for example, comes with a Boarding Shotgun and Combi Rifle. The Guarda de Assalto currently come with options, some of the Remotes have all of their loadouts represented in the box, and there's probably one or two more I can't immediately think of.
The upcoming Taskmaster has a HRL and Red Fury option which is just mindblowing because they haven't done it in so long that some people don't believe they ever did it to begin with.


I've long been a vocal advocate for the unit boxes to come with more options. To use the example of the Marauders(I'm fixated on this since I'm building some at the moment...wanted two boxes of Minutemen and a box of Marauders, only was able to walk away with a box of each), the box currently includes:
1x Boarding Shotgun
1x HRL
1x Sniper
1x Molotok

I think that it could very easily be done where we could expand a box set up like that to feature:
1x Boarding Shotgun OR Rifle(or HFT I guess, since the rifle has the HFT as well but they're different guns rather than a combination weapon) with the arms for both being tied to the "Standing up and firing" pose. Give just one arm that is 'holding' the weapon that links to a hand sculpted on the guns.
1x HRL OR Boarding Shotgun --this and the Sniper Rifle both have one arm free from the gun, since they're holding the Multi-Spectral Visor(read: binoculars!). To make it clear that it is the Boarding Shotgun profile, it could have the free arm holding an AP Mine to place. The Boarding Shotgun is the only Marauder profile with AP Mines so it works.
1x Sniper OR Molotok OR Rifle--this is where things get a bit hinky, since the Boarding Shotgun has one special bit to it(AP Mines) but the Molotok and Rifle don't. Give this one a clenched fist to signal a "halt" or an arm pointing forward and you have an arm to replace the MSV Binoculars.
1x Molotok OR Rifle--Same pose, just hip firing a rifle instead of the Molotok.

Things like that would make it so that CB isn't just giving you a metric ton of bits that you can use to convert cheap starter set models you've bought via box splits but it would make purchasing multiples of a box appealing.

I wish they would do those sort of things so your swc box has parts to make up to (using Fusiliers as an example): 4 regular combis, 2 hackers (male+female), 2 HMGs, 2 MSRs, 2 MLs, 2 combi+lgl, 2 paramedics (as a side bag to add), 2 FOs (as something to add to the combi).

That would be awesome, but rather unfeasible. 2 of each option in a box is asking a bit too much for non-plastic kits, but certainly at least a few extra options in each so that by the time you have your army together you can actually do the necessary weapon swaps without buying those extra figs just to hack up. You can't make EVERY option completely interchangeable in metal, the poses just don't line up that way even with ball & socket joins, but a few options for sure.

To each his own on the lack of flexibility, especially in skirmish games where you only have 1 or 2 of most models. Line infantry like Fusiliers already have 3 Combi-rifle poses (4 if you leave off the Hacker head and use the Beret head in the SWC box), so unless you're spamming them it's not an issue. If you do get a double, just picking a different skin/hair color to paint em is usually good enough for me. More of an issue is that you need to buy a whole starter if you want an extra one, or go through Ebay/Shea Konnit resellers.

I think the best solution here is just for CB to open up an online bitz shop like GW used to do and Privateer Press does. It's almost certainly not something that would make CB much money, keeping the small parts inventoried and pulling individual bitz orders is very labor intensive, but it's always a wonderful service to have for the consumer when available. I don't actually expect CB to ever do a bitz service for those exact reasons, but short of that, could we just get blister packs for each faction of just weapons, please?

 Kalamadea wrote:

I wish they would do those sort of things so your swc box has parts to make up to (using Fusiliers as an example): 4 regular combis, 2 hackers (male+female), 2 HMGs, 2 MSRs, 2 MLs, 2 combi+lgl, 2 paramedics (as a side bag to add), 2 FOs (as something to add to the combi).

That would be awesome, but rather unfeasible. 2 of each option in a box is asking a bit too much for non-plastic kits, but certainly at least a few extra options in each so that by the time you have your army together you can actually do the necessary weapon swaps without buying those extra figs just to hack up. You can't make EVERY option completely interchangeable in metal, the poses just don't line up that way even with ball & socket joins, but a few options for sure.

This is demonstrably false. Several of us have, over the years, given ways to make it so that you could easily just add a second "mirror" version when there's a gender split(i.e. male Minuteman with AP Rifle+Boarding Shotgun options and female Minuteman with AP HMG and ML ones).

To each his own on the lack of flexibility, especially in skirmish games where you only have 1 or 2 of most models. Line infantry like Fusiliers already have 3 Combi-rifle poses (4 if you leave off the Hacker head and use the Beret head in the SWC box), so unless you're spamming them it's not an issue. If you do get a double, just picking a different skin/hair color to paint em is usually good enough for me. More of an issue is that you need to buy a whole starter if you want an extra one, or go through Ebay/Shea Konnit resellers.

The issue is twofold here:
Line Infantry like Fusiliers with their "just" rifle profiles are kept explicitly within a 6 model starter set. That means you're going through EBay/Shaekonnit resellers...which brings up the second issue.

That is not an actual solution to the problem.

I think the best solution here is just for CB to open up an online bitz shop like GW used to do and Privateer Press does. It's almost certainly not something that would make CB much money, keeping the small parts inventoried and pulling individual bitz orders is very labor intensive, but it's always a wonderful service to have for the consumer when available. I don't actually expect CB to ever do a bitz service for those exact reasons, but short of that, could we just get blister packs for each faction of just weapons, please?

Blister packs of weapons would be useless, given the way poses are done now. Hands are molded onto guns, guns are sized to fit the gender, etc.

An extra arm in boxes keyed to match the specific profiles is a far better solution.

Yeah. It would be hilariously easy to make at least the 4 man boxes have multiple weapon options. They are already halfway there, with the 4 man boxes being 2 sets of 2 duplicate bodies(male and female) just with different heads and arms. Even if they just gave you 2 of each arm set it would help, and give bits fodder.

They could even do this with crazier posed models. Just give two different arm/weapon configurations with each model.

They've experimented with it in the past as well, like the Myrmidon Officer having both a Combie Rifle arm and a Boarding Shotgun arm.

It would be even easier doing this with CAD design, and 4 model boxes could be expanded. For example, the Govad box has a single Rifle model and no Boarding Shotgun that isn't a Hacker.

I can't ever see myself running that link with Hacker, Sniper Rifle, HMG and Missile Launcher. It's too much of an SWC sink. Putting in arms for the male body to have a Rifle and sniper rifle and the female body to have a Boarding Shotgun and missile launcher would improve that box immensely.

I'd even happily pay $5 more per box if they did it. And likely buy the box twice to do every model.

 Kanluwen wrote:
...

yes, yes, of course it was an inside job, I saw that youtube vid as well

They've experimented with it in the past as well, like the Myrmidon Officer having both a Combie Rifle arm and a Boarding Shotgun arm.

It would be even easier doing this with CAD design, and 4 model boxes could be expanded. For example, the Govad box has a single Rifle model and no Boarding Shotgun that isn't a Hacker.

I can't ever see myself running that link with Hacker, Sniper Rifle, HMG and Missile Launcher. It's too much of an SWC sink. Putting in arms for the male body to have a Rifle and sniper rifle and the female body to have a Boarding Shotgun and missile launcher would improve that box immensely.

I'd even happily pay $5 more per box if they did it. And likely buy the box twice to do every model.

looks like they may be revisiting it, the new Taskmaster pic shows the same fig with both red fury and Heavy Rcocket Launcher on what looks like the same body, so here's hoping for a few more options in those blisters

Yeah. It would be hilariously easy to make at least the 4 man boxes have multiple weapon options. They are already halfway there, with the 4 man boxes being 2 sets of 2 duplicate bodies(male and female) just with different heads and arms. Even if they just gave you 2 of each arm set it would help, and give bits fodder.

They could even do this with crazier posed models. Just give two different arm/weapon configurations with each model.

I dunno about "hilariously easy", but absolutely doable. I'm not even asking for 2 of each weapon tho, just a few extra options in the boxes would go a heck of a long way to easing the issue. Hopefully this is CB getting the message and not just another oddity in their line

 Kalamadea wrote:

Also, these same loudmouths apparently think Domovoi somehow looks more like this

Spoiler:

than he does this

Spoiler:

So their opinions are basically as valuable as flat-earthers and 9/11 truthers

Oh man those old Dog Warrior sculpts were fantastic, never even knew those existed. Now I've got to track some down...

Well you're probably alone in that opinion. The old dogfaces are largely held to be fugly by everyone else I know.

but maybe you'd like the old McMurrough, which was equally... stylized...

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well you're probably alone in that opinion. The old dogfaces are largely held to be fugly by everyone else I know.

but maybe you'd like the old McMurrough, which was equally... stylized...

Yep, love that one too. While the new stuff is fantastic, a lot of the older sculpts have a great deal of character that is lost in CAD and I would take them over the new stuff any day. The old Yu Jing monks for example. Still on the look out for a Caskuda too, although it's acquiring legendary status.

"Character" seems to be code for "I like cartoony old sculpts that wouldn't have looked out of place next to Clown Face Nagash".

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but one sculpt is objectively better than the other.

 Kalamadea wrote:
That's a very real problem, and a problem far beyond just the mono-poses issue. Rant in spoiler, TL : DR version is: I wish they'd just put more weapons and heads in the darn blisters already!

The Spec Ops blisters specifically address this problem, by offering both a universal proxy and a diverse set of weapons from the faction.

To be clear, I do wish the minis were more customizable (and more durable on the tabletop - my Garuda has fallen apart more times than I care to say). From a gameplay perspective though, I don't think the lack of options is an issue. Proxying is generally accepted, and even encouraged.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
That's a very real problem, and a problem far beyond just the mono-poses issue. Rant in spoiler, TL : DR version is: I wish they'd just put more weapons and heads in the darn blisters already!

The Spec Ops blisters specifically address this problem, by offering both a universal proxy and a diverse set of weapons from the faction.

Many of those weapons are no longer applicable, since they've been redesigning things pretty heavily.

To be clear, I do wish the minis were more customizable (and more durable on the tabletop - my Garuda has fallen apart more times than I care to say). From a gameplay perspective though, I don't think the lack of options is an issue. Proxying is generally accepted, and even encouraged.

The customization part negates the SpecOps including extra weapons, in my opinion. The new designs just don't work well for converting unless they're in a "gun up, hand out" style of pose.