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Remember back during the Clinton administration when Bill would say something stupid and his press secretary would come out later and say "the President misspoke"? I would hate to have that job during Trump's administration. This is going to be a long four years for the State Department, too.
Oh, apparently there's breaking news on the Russian spy situation...
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/07 09:34:01
Does anyone else think a website that's called 'silence is consent' is about as deplorable as it gets?
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
I'm sure standards can go even lower. - We had some real doozy's from the last thread on the subect matter.
And wasn't there one of the senior / famous people in America that did a long raving rant about how "liberals only care about one little word, consent" or such like?
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
The hand of Putin is seen in every event that goes against the West, and we credit and attribute him with more than he really deserves.
Putin didn't:
Call people deplorables.
Take money off Saudis with links to terrorists
Say that they had a private and a public face
Make Clinton use a private email server
Take dodgy donations for her foundation
Take for granted safe democrat states
or any other bullgak about voters being stupid, fake news, fake this, fake that
It has been nothing but excuse after excuse since the voting stopped.
Trump was an awful candidate. Hilary Clinton lost to that. That says more about Clinton than it does about Trump...
All this horsegak about Russian hacking is nothing more than a smokescreen...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
Did Obama hack internal UKIP mail and use it as a fulcrum?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
Did Obama hack internal UKIP mail and use it as a fulcrum?
Have any UKIP leaders been dumb enough to get victimized by a phishing scam like Podesta? Does UKIP have cyber security as good as the RNC that was able to thwart hacking attempts?
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
Did Obama hack internal UKIP mail and use it as a fulcrum?
Have any UKIP leaders been dumb enough to get victimized by a phishing scam like Podesta? Does UKIP have cyber security as good as the RNC that was able to thwart hacking attempts?
How do we know they thwarted the attempts?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Ahtman wrote: Effecting an election doesn't mean being the deciding factor of an election or even radically changing it; all one have to do is slightly move the needle one way or the other.
Even if it has no impact it is still a foreign country trying to influence an outcome in another country's election and that is a serious issue.
One of the primary goals of our foreign policy, of any nation's foreign policy, is to try to influence elections and try to influence who is in charge of other nations in such a way as to benefit our own national interests. The idea that another nation would try to influence our electoral process and do so to try to further their own interests isn't shocking and isn't any more nefarious than our own machinations.
It's completely nefarious.
Just because we're one of the aholes doing it doesn't make it okay. It does make us hypocrites because apparently we only care when the shoe is up the other butt.
I never said it wasn't nefarious. I said it was as nefarious as our own machinations. We've been trying to exert influence over elections and govts to further our interests and oppose Russia since the Cold War kicked off decades ago. I was disputing Ahtman's position that this was a serious transgression because we do it on a pretty regular basis, it's naive to think nobody has ever tried to influence our elections before and it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I don't think we should be happy about Russian involvement but it's not deserving of a level of outrage that questions the legitimacy of the election or demands some kind of severe retaliation from us. It's just international realpolitik, hate the game but don't hate the playa.
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
Did Obama hack internal UKIP mail and use it as a fulcrum?
Have any UKIP leaders been dumb enough to get victimized by a phishing scam like Podesta? Does UKIP have cyber security as good as the RNC that was able to thwart hacking attempts?
How do we know they thwarted the attempts?
Do we have conclusive proof? Not that I can tell but there are reports in numerous media outlets and a denial of it by the RNC that wasn't very convincing.
Kilkrazy wrote: Where are examples of the USA and other countries major foreign policies to affect each others' elections?
Here's a particularly hilarious one:
You can also just look through South and Central America.
People in the US get on a high horse about freedom, think anyone who hates America must hate freedom, and happily ignore that foreign policy wise, the United States has one of the most anti-democracy foreign policies on the planet. There are actually good reasons to not like this country in many parts of the world and ironically one of them is freedom.
It's just international realpolitik, hate the game but don't hate the playa.
Except this is a game where we should hate the players. The US doing this for decades is what allows Russia to not only justify the behavior itself, but to get everyone else to not care about the matter when they do it. It lowers the decency of everyone everywhere because once one player crosses the line everyone else inevitably will. Same reason everyone should be angry at the "games" the Republicans are playing in Congress, but so long as "my team" benefits no one cares but they'll happily complain when it turns against them. The black on the pot begets the black on the kettle ad infinitum.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/07 15:02:29
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
The hand of Putin is seen in every event that goes against the West, and we credit and attribute him with more than he really deserves.
Putin didn't:
Call people deplorables.
Take money off Saudis with links to terrorists
Say that they had a private and a public face
Make Clinton use a private email server
Take dodgy donations for her foundation
Take for granted safe democrat states
or any other bullgak about voters being stupid, fake news, fake this, fake that
It has been nothing but excuse after excuse since the voting stopped.
Trump was an awful candidate. Hilary Clinton lost to that. That says more about Clinton than it does about Trump...
All this horsegak about Russian hacking is nothing more than a smokescreen...
I see your exalt and raise it with another EXALT!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/07 16:00:16
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no... ....
So, is Trump putting us at the front of the queue for trade negotiations then? I hadn't heard that bit of news, that's great. B
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no... ....
So, is Trump putting us at the front of the queue for trade negotiations then? I hadn't heard that bit of news, that's great. B
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no... ....
So, is Trump putting us at the front of the queue for trade negotiations then? I hadn't heard that bit of news, that's great. B
There's a big difference between someone giving you a tenner of their own free will compared to threatening to take a tenner off you if you don't do X Y Z
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no... ....
So, is Trump putting us at the front of the queue for trade negotiations then? I hadn't heard that bit of news, that's great. B
Trump changes his policy almost on a daily basis, so I'm not sure about that, but at least he's not threatening us, the irony being that Obama was more liked in the UK than Trump ever was.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/07 16:25:01
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Compel wrote: I may be wrong, but it looks like the US President Elect is currently in a.... "robust" exchange of views with the (Former?) President of Mexico.
BigWaaagh wrote: If Russia gets away with just a "Let's move on." after the damning report just issued, as our exaggerator-in-chief wishes, then they'll...or some other emboldened wannabe...will just keep playing at this game. Here again, South America or Europe, you name it.
I'm from Europe and I'd do it without a shadow of bad conscience .
I can't chose a worse candidate than the US people all by itself anyway, so…
diplomacy in the Trump era : all international interactions to be carried out on Twitter.
I SOOOOOO want @jack to feth this gak up and edit tweets to send the world into a massive crisis. Would be hilarious.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/07 17:16:00
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
“Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.
As a student of American history, I can assure my fellow dakka members that the USA is perfectly capable of undermining faith is its own democratic progress without Russian help and has been doing so since the declaration of independence!
But you probably already knew that
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
The hand of Putin is seen in every event that goes against the West, and we credit and attribute him with more than he really deserves.
Putin didn't:
Call people deplorables.
Take money off Saudis with links to terrorists
Say that they had a private and a public face
Make Clinton use a private email server
Take dodgy donations for her foundation
Take for granted safe democrat states
or any other bullgak about voters being stupid, fake news, fake this, fake that
It has been nothing but excuse after excuse since the voting stopped.
Trump was an awful candidate. Hilary Clinton lost to that. That says more about Clinton than it does about Trump...
All this horsegak about Russian hacking is nothing more than a smokescreen...
A smokescreen for what exactly?! For getting to the truth of the matter? Yeah, that'd be horrible in an age of ever increasing fake and manipulated news! The truth will out, and hopefully it always will.
Your post is still just another repetition of the actual point being diffused, but thanks for playing. For the umpteenth time, whether it was against the GOP or Dems, they...Russia...covertly fethed with our election and internal affairs. Trying to actually compare that to Obama OPENLY and OVERTLY telling it like it is with regards to Brexit is just a bit of partisan desperation.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/07 17:52:47
they...Russia...covertly fethed with our election and internal affairs.
So Russia gave the USA a taste of their own medicine, did to the USA what the USA have been doing to other countries since 1945.
No offence to you or any American dakka member, but I'm supposed to give a damn?
You'll forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over it.
Again, it's the moral grandstanding, the double standards that are something to behold...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
The hand of Putin is seen in every event that goes against the West, and we credit and attribute him with more than he really deserves.
Putin didn't:
Call people deplorables.
Take money off Saudis with links to terrorists
Say that they had a private and a public face
Make Clinton use a private email server
Take dodgy donations for her foundation
Take for granted safe democrat states
or any other bullgak about voters being stupid, fake news, fake this, fake that
It has been nothing but excuse after excuse since the voting stopped.
Trump was an awful candidate. Hilary Clinton lost to that. That says more about Clinton than it does about Trump...
All this horsegak about Russian hacking is nothing more than a smokescreen...
Still just another repetition of the actual point being diffused, but thanks for playing. For the umpteenth time, whether it was against the GOP or Dems, they...Russia...covertly fethed with our election and internal affairs. Trying to compare that to Obama OPENLY and OVERTLY telling it like it is with regards to Brexit is just a bit desperate.
We've been interfering and influencing the political process in Russia and former USSR states and Warsaw Pact members for 70 years. If we didn't want to take that kind of hit ourselves we shouldn't have been dishing it out for decades. We want to play the game we have to deal with all it entails. Whining about being victimized by the same tactics we've been happily using is rather pathetic. When Putin was condemning US influence in Ukraine politics right on Russia's doorstep we told him to feth off but now we're all butt hurt that Putin tried to do the same to Clinton and Obama? This is the way the world works always has always will. Foreign policy exists to further a nation's self interest. We messed around in other elections and nations because we thought it would benefit our country or damage countries with opposing interests. Every other country does the same and that includes messing with our politics to damage us and benefit them. This isn't surprising or shocking or unprecedented it just stings that we came up on the short end for once.
they...Russia...covertly fethed with our election and internal affairs.
So Russia gave the USA a taste of their own medicine, did to the USA what the USA have been doing to other countries since 1945.
No offence to you or any American dakka member, but I'm supposed to give a damn?
You'll forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over it.
Again, it's the moral grandstanding, the double standards that are something to behold...
Whether you give a damn or not, is of no consequence to me and strictly your business. I, however, do give a damn as should every American citizen. EDIT: I take that back, you should give a damn because if you think this is just going to be the US elections targeted, you can forget about it. They've seen that their tactics work and I have absolutely no reason to believe they won't spread this around the West as a whole. Watch the European elections this summer.
And yeah, there are no innocent hands in this game, or realpolitiks for that matter, but it DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACTS OF THIS MATTER FOR ONE SECOND.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/07 18:01:39
but if you walk around punching people on the nose, you can't complain if somebody punches you back.
That's life.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
they...Russia...covertly fethed with our election and internal affairs.
So Russia gave the USA a taste of their own medicine, did to the USA what the USA have been doing to other countries since 1945.
No offence to you or any American dakka member, but I'm supposed to give a damn?
You'll forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over it.
Again, it's the moral grandstanding, the double standards that are something to behold...
Whether you give a damn or not, is of no consequence to me and strictly your business. I, however, do give a damn as should every American citizen.
And yeah, there are no innocent hands in this game, or realpolitiks for that matter, but it DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACTS OF THIS MATTER FOR ONE SECOND.
Nobody is disputing the facts we just don't agree with you compulsion to redline the outrage meter over foreign policy tactics that have been used in the US vs Russia fight for the last 70 years. We chose to sit at the high stakes poker table and we lost a hand, it's not a big deal, the game keeps going, the world keeps spinning. This isn't even a game changer with US/Russia relations.
On the subject of using/manipulating/manufacturing "news" for political subterfuge, this happened. German elections coming up, let the games begin. This is going to be an issue that has the potential to effect us all and our way of life very adversely.
And these don't even cover the list of governments overthrown supporting the "Arab Spring". Remember the Obama administration's handwork in Libya? How much support has President Obama given rebels in Syria? Remember President Obama threatening to withhold foreign/military aid to Egypt when the military decided to take their nation back from the Muslim Brotherhood? I do. So does the internet. Google it.
But we can't exactly begrudge President Obama for doing this. It is, after all, a long American tradition.
When American presidents arrive in my country, lecture us on the dangers of leaving the EU and say we'll be 'punished' when it comes to trade deals with the USA if we don't stay in the EU, that's not interfering in another nation's elections. No no no...
Like I've said many a time, the double standards on play here make me want to vomit!
Did Obama hack internal UKIP mail and use it as a fulcrum?
Have any UKIP leaders been dumb enough to get victimized by a phishing scam like Podesta? Does UKIP have cyber security as good as the RNC that was able to thwart hacking attempts?
Podesta wasn't stupid enough to get victimised by a phishing scam. One of his aides recognised the email as a phishing attempt, and mistyped the phrase "obviously illegitimate" as "obviously legitimate" or something. So that is that claim dismissed.
Your second claim that the RNC was able to thwart hacking attempts is completely unstantiated. It's fairly likely the Russians hacked Trump and the RNC too, and have not publicised the dirt they dug up because they are using it for quiet leverage. After all, the Trump servers were running on Windows 2000 or something that was fuller of security holes than Swiss cheese.
Obviously if the two principals in the case both have a strong motive to keep things quiet, we are unlikely ever to hear about it. And it's impossible to disprove a negative.
“Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.
As a student of American history, I can assure my fellow dakka members that the USA is perfectly capable of undermining faith is its own democratic progress without Russian help and has been doing so since the declaration of independence!
But you probably already knew that
Please don't say stuff like that. We Russians are finally being taken seriously again. This was all Russia's doing. Russia can totally alter the outcome of US elections at will. Russia stronk.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/07 19:44:07
.
