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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!

 Pouncey wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
As I pointed out earlier, it wasn't until the -30's that Britain ceased to be able to make Canadian laws and that's not a sign of independence. Also, I think you're underestimating the power of that "Empire in name only..." bit. In 1914- Canadian Prime Minister Borden declares war, pledging Canada's support to "The Empire".


Yup, because that's a thing an independent country does. Declare war on their own and pledge to support one of their allies who is being attacked.


It beats waiting for British Parliament to pass a law and declare war for you. Face it, Canada didn't have, essentially, complete political independence from Britain until 1931.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pouncey wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
1812 wasn't it? Anyways, that trend is changing, we beat ourselves in Sochi.


No, it was in the 21st century. I know that because I remember watching the game on TV.


There's this thing called humor, it's indicated by a laughing Orkmoticon, please investigate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
 sebster wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
If your idea of "independent country" is one existing within another country's empire, then yes, happy sesquicentennial. But the formal independence really didn't happen until 30 or so years ago, now did it?


It's not an empire, it's a commonwealth. No taxes are sent to the UK, there is no obligation to provide troops in time of war. What it means basically is the UK provides some various legal and administrative services for the really small nations of the commonwealth (high courts etc), and every four years there are the Commonwealth Games, which only Australia seems to care about because it's the only time we get to win track and field medals.



Nowadays, no, it's not an empire. But in the context of the relevant conversation relating to the 150 year anniversary of Canada as an independent nation, it wasn't until 1948 that King George VI dropped the title "Emperor", formally ending the "British Empire". So, it was within that "Empire" for well over half that time.


It was Empire in name only for nations such as Canada, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand. They were de facto independent.

Canadian troops that fought in both world wars were by and large volunteers, not conscripts. I believe the same was true for Australia and New Zealand.


As I pointed out earlier, it wasn't until the -30's that Britain ceased to be able to make Canadian laws and that's not a sign of independence. Also, I think you're underestimating the power of that "Empire in name only..." bit. In 1914- Canadian Prime Minister Borden declares war, pledging Canada's support to "The Empire".


In both world wars, the USA pledged support to the British Empire, obviously because they were allies, but that didn't make the USA part of the Empire.




Now you're just fishing.


EDIT: I think we need to get this thread back to a US Politics-related topic.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/01/12 09:16:19


 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 BigWaaagh wrote:
EDIT: I think we need to get this thread back to a US Politics-related topic.


Yes.

I would like to present this XKCD What If? article that explores the statistical likelihood of a single vote making the difference in a federal election in the USA.

http://what-if.xkcd.com/19/

Yes, obviously a single person's vote is extremely unlikely to make a difference. However, the efforts being made are to convince people to consider the concept of voting to be valuable enough to participate in. These messages are not aimed at a single individual, but spread to the entire country.

Where 1 vote is unlikely to make any difference, millions of votes easily could.

It's too bad a lot of Americans abhor the concept of collective bargaining, their political system is founded on it.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
But you gave us Neighbours and Home and Away, and Crocodile Dundee


And also some things that don't suck!
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 sebster wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
But you gave us Neighbours and Home and Away, and Crocodile Dundee


And also some things that don't suck!


Like that bizarrely-shaped opera house in Sydney that's used in every Hollywood movie that needs an establishing shot for a scene taking place in Australia.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Pouncey wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding his viewpoint.

To him, he's not doing anything wrong. Because he believes that transgendered people are immoral and deserve to be mocked. He doesn't care to understand the reality, because his moral values dictate to him that transgendered people are doing something very, very wrong that should not be condoned by society. Probably his belief system insists that a deity individually crafted every person individually, thus everyone is born as they were meant to be, and any alteration made to the body is a violation of his deity's will.


Maybe, but I've never gotten a huge moralism vibe from Breotan. I don't think it's that. But then I get posters around here confused with each other all the time, I could be wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pouncey wrote:
Like that bizarrely-shaped opera house in Sydney that's used in every Hollywood movie that needs an establishing shot for a scene taking place in Australia.


It's visible from every single window in Sydney. Even if you go the windows on the other side of the house, it'll still be there. Truly an architectural marvel.

Although we've only got ourselves to blame. I remember seeing an ad in China for Jacob's Creek, a wine, and the ad was the Opera House at day, kangaroos, the Harbour Bridge , the Opera House at night, and finally wine pouring. Jacob's Creek isn't even a NSW wine, it's from South Australia, a totally different state.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/12 09:29:22


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 sebster wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding his viewpoint.

To him, he's not doing anything wrong. Because he believes that transgendered people are immoral and deserve to be mocked. He doesn't care to understand the reality, because his moral values dictate to him that transgendered people are doing something very, very wrong that should not be condoned by society. Probably his belief system insists that a deity individually crafted every person individually, thus everyone is born as they were meant to be, and any alteration made to the body is a violation of his deity's will.


Maybe, but I've never gotten a huge moralism vibe from Breotan. I don't think it's that. But then I get posters around here confused with each other all the time, I could be wrong.


I'll admit it's possible for someone to have a different motivation. I have yet to encounter such an individual though.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 BigWaaagh wrote:
Nowadays, no, it's not an empire. But in the context of the relevant conversation relating to the 150 year anniversary of Canada as an independent nation, it wasn't until 1948 that King George VI dropped the title "Emperor", formally ending the "British Empire". So, it was within that "Empire" for well over half that time.


Yeah, it does get to be a bit of a strange question, as independence came in pieces, and actual independence came well in advance of formal recognition. Even now, Australia's head of state is technically the Queen, but that's nothing to do with reality.
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 sebster wrote:
It's visible from every single window in Sydney. Even if you go the windows on the other side of the house, it'll still be there. Truly an architectural marvel.

Although we've only got ourselves to blame. I remember seeing an ad in China for Jacob's Creek, a wine, and the ad was the Opera House at day, kangaroos, the Harbour Bridge , the Opera House at night, and finally wine pouring. Jacob's Creek isn't even a NSW wine, it's from South Australia, a totally different state.


I remember watching a political humor show. They made a reference to Ottawa in an episode about Canada, and the establishing photograph used was of a building in Gatineau, which is in a different province.

However, because I've lived in the Ottawa Valley region all my life, I'm pretty sure I know what happened. The photograph was of a building in Gatineau, but the photo was taken from Ottawa. Because the two cities were built on opposite sides of a river.

And here's what Parliament looks like from Gatineau.
Spoiler:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/12 09:38:53


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
It was Empire in name only for nations such as Canada, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand. They were de facto independent.

Canadian troops that fought in both world wars were by and large volunteers, not conscripts. I believe the same was true for Australia and New Zealand.


There were struggles in the first world war for Australia to be granted independent command, especially when they reached the Western Front. In WWII there was a hell of a diplomatic shitstorm when Churchill ordered Australian troops to Africa following the fall of Singapore. PM Curtin ordered the ships to return to defend Australia. It's a big reason (along with Singapore itself and the collapse of the British defence of Asia) that after the war we looked to the US as a our key strategic ally.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury


..well.. we've all learnt something about Canada.

Which is fine and dandy but, alas, not really the topic here.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38591382



Memos claiming Russia has compromising material on Donald Trump are understood to have been prepared by ex-MI6 officer Christopher Steele.
They include unsubstantiated claims the US president-elect's team colluded with Russia and that Moscow has a video recording of Mr Trump with prostitutes.
Mr Trump has called the allegations "fake news" and "phoney stuff".
BBC news correspondent Paul Wood said he understood Mr Steele left his home this week and was now "in hiding".
He said he had been shown the memos in October last year, when he was told Mr Steele was "in fear of his life", believing he would be in danger for speaking out about potential Russian involvement in Mr Trump's election.
He said he had been told Mr Steele left home on either Tuesday or Wednesday, asking his neighbour to look after his cats, and that he had now "gone in to hiding".
Our correspondent said he had been told by people in the intelligence community that Mr Steele was "extremely, highly regarded" and was thought of as "competent".
He said the central allegation made in the memos was that Mr Trump was "vulnerable to blackmail".
Mr Steele has not responded to the BBC's request for a comment on the revelations about Mr Trump.

Mr Steele is believed to be a former member of the Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, and has been a director of Orbis - which describes itself as a leading corporate intelligence company.
The research - published in some US media - is believed to have been commissioned initially by Republicans opposed to Mr Trump and consists of extensive allegations about his personal life and his campaign's relationship with the Russian state.

Claims about a Russian blackmail tape were made in one of a series of reports written by a former British intelligence agent.
As a member of MI6, he had been posted to the UK's embassy in Moscow and now runs a consultancy giving advice on doing business in Russia. He spoke to a number of his old contacts in the FSB, the successor to the KGB, paying some of them for information.
They told him that Mr Trump had been filmed with a group of prostitutes in the presidential suite of Moscow's Ritz-Carlton hotel.
I know this because the Washington political research company that commissioned his report showed it to me during the final week of the election campaign.
The BBC decided not to use it then, for the very good reason that without seeing the tape - if it exists - we could not know if the claims were true. The detail of the allegations were certainly lurid.
The entire series of reports has now been posted by BuzzFeed.

Among the allegations are that Moscow has a video recording of Mr Trump with prostitutes and damaging information about his business activities.
Intelligence agencies considered the claims relevant enough to brief both Mr Trump and President Obama last week.
But the allegations have not been independently substantiated or verified and some details have been challenged as incorrect by those who are mentioned.
Mr Trump himself was briefed about the existence of the allegations by the US intelligence community last week but has since described them as fake news.



.... Of course if we go back a few pages he apparently didn't recall or read -- MMV -- the info anyway..

.
It must be somewhat unpleasant.

Probably a bit like sitting through "questioning" with regards to, say, ones religion or sexuality or apparent willingness to murder people left right and centre.

I'm sure we're all glad that , say, the Obamas or the Clinton's didn't have to go through anything like that.

The nazi accusations well.... it's what we do these days isn't it ? Apparently.

Although one cannot help but note that one of the other aspects of a nazi regime was the registering of individuals by religion and horrific language and treatment towards homosexuals -- even by the standards of the era.

Good thing no one talks about doing things like that these days eh ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38589427


Donald Trump has described as "fake news" allegations published in some media that his election team colluded with Russia - and that Russia held compromising material about his private life. The BBC's Paul Wood saw the allegations before the election, and reports on the fallout now they have come to light.
The significance of these allegations is that, if true, the president-elect of the United States would be vulnerable to blackmail by the Russians.
I understand the CIA believes it is credible that the Kremlin has such kompromat - or compromising material - on the next US commander in chief. At the same time a joint taskforce, which includes the CIA and the FBI, has been investigating allegations that the Russians may have sent money to Mr Trump's organisation or his election campaign.
Claims about a Russian blackmail tape were made in one of a series of reports written by a former British intelligence agent.
As a member of MI6, he had been posted to the UK's embassy in Moscow and now runs a consultancy giving advice on doing business in Russia. He spoke to a number of his old contacts in the FSB, the successor to the KGB, paying some of them for information.
They told him that Mr Trump had been filmed with a group of prostitutes in the presidential suite of Moscow's Ritz-Carlton hotel. I know this because the Washington political research company that commissioned his report showed it to me during the final week of the election campaign.
The BBC decided not to use it then, for the very good reason that without seeing the tape - if it exists - we could not know if the claims were true. The detail of the allegations were certainly lurid. The entire series of reports has now been posted by BuzzFeed.

Mr Trump's supporters say this is a politically motivated attack.
The president-elect himself, outraged, tweeted this morning: "Are we living in Nazi Germany?"
Later, at his much-awaited news conference, he was unrestrained.
"A thing like that should have never been written," he said, "and certainly should never have been released."
He said the memo was written by "sick people [who] put that crap together."
The opposition research firm that commissioned the report had worked first for an anti-Trump superpac - political action committee - during the Republican primaries.
Then during the general election, it was funded by an anonymous Democratic Party supporter. But these are not political hacks - their usual line of work is country analysis and commercial risk assessment, similar to the former MI6 agent's consultancy. He, apparently, gave his dossier to the FBI against the firm's advice.

And the former MI6 agent is not the only source for the claim about Russian kompromat on the president-elect. Back in August, a retired spy told me he had been informed of its existence by "the head of an East European intelligence agency".
Later, I used an intermediary to pass some questions to active duty CIA officers dealing with the case file - they would not speak to me directly. I got a message back that there was "more than one tape", "audio and video", on "more than one date", in "more than one place" - in the Ritz-Carlton in Moscow and also in St Petersburg - and that the material was "of a sexual nature".
'Be very careful'
The claims of Russian kompromat on Mr Trump were "credible", the CIA believed. That is why - according to the New York Times and Washington Post - these claims ended up on President Obama's desk last week, a briefing document also given to Congressional leaders and to Mr Trump himself.
Mr Trump did visit Moscow in November 2013, the date the main tape is supposed to have been made. There is TV footage of him at the Miss Universe contest. Any visitor to a grand hotel in Moscow would be wise to assume that their room comes equipped with hidden cameras and microphones as well as a mini-bar.
At his news conference, Mr Trump said he warned his staff when they travelled: "Be very careful, because in your hotel rooms and no matter where you go you're going to probably have cameras." So the Russian security services have made obtaining kompromat an art form.

One Russian specialist told me that Vladimir Putin himself sometimes says there is kompromat on him - though perhaps he is joking. The specialist went on to tell me that FSB officers are prone to boasting about having tapes on public figures, and to be careful of any statements they might make.
A former CIA officer told me he had spoken by phone to a serving FSB officer who talked about the tapes. He concluded: "It's hokey as hell."
Mr Trump and his supporters are right to point out that these are unsubstantiated allegations.
But it is not just sex, it is money too. The former MI6 agent's report detailed alleged attempts by the Kremlin to offer Mr Trump lucrative "sweetheart deals" in Russia that would buy his loyalty.
Mr Trump turned these down, and indeed has done little real business in Russia. But a joint intelligence and law enforcement taskforce has been looking at allegations that the Kremlin paid money to his campaign through his associates.
Legal applications
On 15 October, the US secret intelligence court issued a warrant to investigate two Russian banks. This news was given to me by several sources and corroborated by someone I will identify only as a senior member of the US intelligence community. He would never volunteer anything - giving up classified information would be illegal - but he would confirm or deny what I had heard from other sources.

"I'm going to write a story that says…" I would say. "I don't have a problem with that," he would reply, if my information was accurate. He confirmed the sequence of events below.
Last April, the CIA director was shown intelligence that worried him. It was - allegedly - a tape recording of a conversation about money from the Kremlin going into the US presidential campaign.
It was passed to the US by an intelligence agency of one of the Baltic States. The CIA cannot act domestically against American citizens so a joint counter-intelligence taskforce was created.
The taskforce included six agencies or departments of government. Dealing with the domestic, US, side of the inquiry, were the FBI, the Department of the Treasury, and the Department of Justice. For the foreign and intelligence aspects of the investigation, there were another three agencies: the CIA, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the National Security Agency, responsible for electronic spying.
Lawyers from the National Security Division in the Department of Justice then drew up an application. They took it to the secret US court that deals with intelligence, the Fisa court, named after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. They wanted permission to intercept the electronic records from two Russian banks.
Their first application, in June, was rejected outright by the judge. They returned with a more narrowly drawn order in July and were rejected again. Finally, before a new judge, the order was granted, on 15 October, three weeks before election day.

Neither Mr Trump nor his associates are named in the Fisa order, which would only cover foreign citizens or foreign entities - in this case the Russian banks. But ultimately, the investigation is looking for transfers of money from Russia to the United States, each one, if proved, a felony offence.
A lawyer- outside the Department of Justice but familiar with the case - told me that three of Mr Trump's associates were the subject of the inquiry. "But it's clear this is about Trump," he said.
I spoke to all three of those identified by this source. All of them emphatically denied any wrongdoing. "Hogwash," said one. "bs," said another. Of the two Russian banks, one denied any wrongdoing, while the other did not respond to a request for comment.
The investigation was active going into the election. During that period, the leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid, wrote to the director of the FBI, accusing him of holding back "explosive information" about Mr Trump.
Mr Reid sent his letter after getting an intelligence briefing, along with other senior figures in Congress. Only eight people were present: the chairs and ranking minority members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, and the leaders of the Democratic and Republican parties in Congress, the "gang of eight" as they are sometimes called. Normally, senior staff attend "gang of eight" intelligence briefings, but not this time. The Congressional leaders were not even allowed to take notes.
'Puppet'
In the letter to the FBI director, James Comey, Mr Reid said: "In my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and co-ordination between Donald Trump, his top advisers, and the Russian government - a foreign interest openly hostile to the United States, which Mr Trump praises at every opportunity.
"The public has a right to know this information. I wrote to you months ago calling for this information to be released to the public. There is no danger to American interests from releasing it. And yet, you continue to resist calls to inform the public of this critical information."
The CIA, FBI, Justice and Treasury all refused to comment when I approached them after hearing about the Fisa warrant.
It is not clear what will happen to the inter-agency investigation under President Trump - or even if the taskforce is continuing its work now. The Russians have denied any attempt to influence the president-elect - with either money or a blackmail tape.

If a tape exists, the Russians would hardly give it up, though some hope to encourage a disloyal FSB officer who might want to make some serious money. Before the election, Larry Flynt, publisher of the pornographic magazine Hustler, put up a million dollars for incriminating tape of Mr Trump. Penthouse has now followed with its own offer of a million dollars for the Ritz-Carlton tape (if it exists).
It is an extraordinary situation, 10 days before Mr Trump is sworn into office, but it was foreshadowed during the campaign.
During the final presidential debate, Hillary Clinton called Donald Trump a "puppet" of Russia's leader, Vladimir Putin. "No puppet. No puppet," Mr Trump interjected, talking over Mrs Clinton. "You're the puppet. No, you're the puppet."
In a New York Times op-ed in August, the former director of the CIA, Michael Morell, wrote: "In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr Putin had recruited Mr Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation."
Agent; puppet - both terms imply some measure of influence or control by Moscow.
Michael Hayden, former head of both the CIA and the NSA, simply called Mr Trump a "polezni durak" - a useful fool.
The background to those statements was information held - at the time - within the intelligence community. Now all Americans have heard the claims. Little more than a week before his inauguration, they will have to decide if their president-elect really was being blackmailed by Moscow.




Russia has of course denied these claims and says they don't have a file on Trump.


.. dunno about you I find it unlikely that they do not have a file on the next POTUS

especially given his previous excursions to Russia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38591754


The director of the US Office of Government Ethics has criticised Donald Trump's plan to hand control of his business empire to his sons before his inauguration on 20 January.
The plan does not match the "standards" of US presidents over the last 40 years, Walter Shaub said.






of course.


This whole presidency is in danger of falling apart before it even begins.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





This whole presidency is in danger of falling apart before it even begins.


That would probably be for the best.
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

This whole presidency is in danger of falling apart before it even begins.


You're a master of understatement, reds8n

This whole sorry saga has been a SHAMBLES from start to finish.

Trump's car crash news conference, US intelligence agencies all over the place, ex-MI6 agents crawling out the woodwork, journalistic ethics going out the window...

This has been shameful for the USA.

In many nations, America's reputation is already pretty low, but the USA has been reduced to a laughing stock these past days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.. dunno about you I find it unlikely that they do not have a file on the next POTUS

especially given his previous excursions to Russia.


Agreed, they would have started building a file on him when he threw his hat into the ring two years ago, but all this talk of Putin planning this for 8 years is like something out of the Manchurian candidate.

It's like a bad Andy McNab novel



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pouncey wrote:
This whole presidency is in danger of falling apart before it even begins.


That would probably be for the best.


Are you not worried about the flood of refugees that would flee north?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/12 10:11:43


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

One would suggest that would've been the goal -- or one of anyway -- of any outside element who attempted to influence the recent elections.

Can't really hurt the USA militarily -- well you can try but 99.9% of the time that's gonna be a real short fight. Like Bambi versus Godzilla kind of short.

You can maybe try and hurt them economically -- that'll work a bit but is also going to cause issues for the aggressor too in all likelihood.

And it's not like the USA doesn't have economic muscles of its own either is it eh ?


I know a couple of people who live/visit Russia and the economic sanctions have and are hitting them hard.


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Are you not worried about the flood of refugees that would flee north?


Every American refugee we take in is a life we can save. And the Americans who flee to Canada are the ones we want to save.

I am male in real life. My two partners are also male, and both are Americans.

Trump's vice-President is in favor of bringing back conversion "therapy". And Trump has stated that he intends to let Pence handle a lot of his duties.

I don't know if you've read accounts from people who have survived conversion therapy. My partner has. After reading one person's account of what went on, he didn't believe that his country would ever allow such a thing to happen. Then he read more people's accounts. He describes the process as "beating the gay out of you" and it usually starts with a teenager's parents hiring people to kidnap and brutalize their own child. Usually it results in suicide.

Trump's election has made the man I love suicidal on occasion, because he fears for his life and safety from his own country's government.
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 reds8n wrote:
One would suggest that would've been the goal -- or one of anyway -- of any outside element who attempted to influence the recent elections.

Can't really hurt the USA militarily -- well you can try but 99.9% of the time that's gonna be a real short fight. Like Bambi versus Godzilla kind of short.

You can maybe try and hurt them economically -- that'll work a bit but is also going to cause issues for the aggressor too in all likelihood.

And it's not like the USA doesn't have economic muscles of its own either is it eh ?


I know a couple of people who live/visit Russia and the economic sanctions have and are hitting them hard.



It's standard practice for nations, be they democracies, be they dictatorships, to build files and dossiers on foreign leaders and important ministers. Trump will be no exception and there's obviously a ton of material on him in the public domain already.

Remember the fuss a few years ago when our very own David Cameron was convinced the KGB had approached him back in the 1980s or something

But for some media outlets to be suggesting that Putin has been planning this for years, we'll, I think we're entering the realms of fantasy.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pouncey wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Are you not worried about the flood of refugees that would flee north?


Every American refugee we take in is a life we can save. And the Americans who flee to Canada are the ones we want to save.

I am male in real life. My two partners are also male, and both are Americans.

Trump's vice-President is in favor of bringing back conversion "therapy". And Trump has stated that he intends to let Pence handle a lot of his duties.

I don't know if you've read accounts from people who have survived conversion therapy. My partner has. After reading one person's account of what went on, he didn't believe that his country would ever allow such a thing to happen. Then he read more people's accounts. He describes the process as "beating the gay out of you" and it usually starts with a teenager's parents hiring people to kidnap and brutalize their own child. Usually it results in suicide.

Trump's election has made the man I love suicidal on occasion, because he fears for his life and safety from his own country's government.


That's terrible news.

Anyway, best wishes to you and your loved ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/12 10:27:14


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 reds8n wrote:
Can't really hurt the USA militarily -- well you can try but 99.9% of the time that's gonna be a real short fight. Like Bambi versus Godzilla kind of short.


If my country ever finds itself in a war with America, I intend to join the war regardless of whether my country's military wants my help or not.

I don't suffer any delusions of victory. I know America is too powerful to be stopped.

I simply refuse to ever live under American rule, and I would rather die in a hopeless last stand than live in a reality where America annexes Canada.

Better dead than red, white and blue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
That's terrible news.

Anyway, best wishes to you and your loved ones.


Between Christmas and New Year's, I had to convince him to continue to live to see 2017.

America is not the good guys anymore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/12 10:36:16


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Sadly, this all seems to be the natural conclusion (oh god I hope it's the conclusion) of courting the Religious Right (you know, those who despite claiming to be Christian have a shocking lack of compassion) and the Far Right in the name of some extra votes.

I really hope this presidency does fall apart, and Congress or whomever has the power announces a mulligan/do-over.

I genuinely believe President-elect Trump may be suffering from a mental illness. I do not make that as a joke, as such things simply aren't funny, ever - let alone when it's possibly afflicting someone about to become the single most powerful person in the world.

How you get past that, I don't know. But he's clearly not cut out for office. He's short-tempered, reactionary and just doesn't seem to have political common sense. That's a very dangerous blend, even if there isn't an underlying medical condition behind it/exasperating it.

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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Trump exhibits a high degree of narcissism. That is a character fault rather than a mental illness like schizophrenia.

If the Trump presidency "falls apart" there aren't any "mulligans", though. If Trump got impeached, then Mike Pence would take over.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Pouncey wrote:
I don't know if you've read accounts from people who have survived conversion therapy. My partner has. After reading one person's account of what went on, he didn't believe that his country would ever allow such a thing to happen. Then he read more people's accounts. He describes the process as "beating the gay out of you" and it usually starts with a teenager's parents hiring people to kidnap and brutalize their own child. Usually it results in suicide.

Trump's election has made the man I love suicidal on occasion, because he fears for his life and safety from his own country's government.


Yes, Pence is awful and conversion "therapy" is legalized torture, but let's keep a bit of perspective about this. There is absolutely zero chance of mandatory "therapy" for adults, so unless you're doing some really horrible things with children the men you love are not in danger from this. Nor are gay kids with parents who don't support child abuse. And it's questionable what Pence could do to overturn state-level laws banning conversion "therapy", especially in the face of determined opposition. Remember, the US is up to ~55% support for gay marriage and most of the other 45% are more the "just don't call it marriage" types than the hardcore anti-gay zealots. The backlash against an attempt to force states to allow conversion "therapy" would be immense and quite possibly fatal to the republican party.

The most likely outcome of a Pence presidency would be the absence of progress, rather than any steps backwards on the issue. Conservative states will continue to take a hands-off approach, less conservative states will continue to ban conversion "therapy", and the republican party will do its best to keep the issue quiet and not have "THEY WANT TO BEAT THE GAY OUT OF YOUR KIDS" all over the news.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Peregrine wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
I don't know if you've read accounts from people who have survived conversion therapy. My partner has. After reading one person's account of what went on, he didn't believe that his country would ever allow such a thing to happen. Then he read more people's accounts. He describes the process as "beating the gay out of you" and it usually starts with a teenager's parents hiring people to kidnap and brutalize their own child. Usually it results in suicide.

Trump's election has made the man I love suicidal on occasion, because he fears for his life and safety from his own country's government.


Yes, Pence is awful and conversion "therapy" is legalized torture, but let's keep a bit of perspective about this. There is absolutely zero chance of mandatory "therapy" for adults, so unless you're doing some really horrible things with children the men you love are not in danger from this. Nor are gay kids with parents who don't support child abuse. And it's questionable what Pence could do to overturn state-level laws banning conversion "therapy", especially in the face of determined opposition. Remember, the US is up to ~55% support for gay marriage and most of the other 45% are more the "just don't call it marriage" types than the hardcore anti-gay zealots. The backlash against an attempt to force states to allow conversion "therapy" would be immense and quite possibly fatal to the republican party.

The most likely outcome of a Pence presidency would be the absence of progress, rather than any steps backwards on the issue. Conservative states will continue to take a hands-off approach, less conservative states will continue to ban conversion "therapy", and the republican party will do its best to keep the issue quiet and not have "THEY WANT TO BEAT THE GAY OUT OF YOUR KIDS" all over the news.


I hope you're right. I don't share your optimism, but I do hope you're right.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Sadly, this all seems to be the natural conclusion (oh god I hope it's the conclusion) of courting the Religious Right (you know, those who despite claiming to be Christian have a shocking lack of compassion) and the Far Right in the name of some extra votes.


I don't think Trump can really be blamed on courting the religious right. Remember, this is a guy with multiple divorces (after cheating on his wives) who is proudly crude and sexual and barely aware of Christian beliefs. If religion is important you can't possibly justify voting for Trump. But what the 2016 election revealed is that a lot of the religious right is far more concerned with right-wing issues like tax cuts, anti-immigration laws, etc, than with religion. IOW, the former religious right has lost its former power and sold its soul to cling to any last remaining scraps of influence.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Kilkrazy wrote:
Trump exhibits a high degree of narcissism. That is a character fault rather than a mental illness like schizophrenia.


My older brother and I used to joke about what my campaign for becoming Prime Minister of Canada would be like.

He suggested that my slogan should be, "You've always suspected that your politicians were crazy, so now why not make it official and put a schizophrenic in charge?"

I think the only policy we came up with that I'd insist on was spending part of the federal budget to provide a WoW subscription for every citizen.

If I were an American, I wonder how being a Satanist would affect my chances of being elected President...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Sadly, this all seems to be the natural conclusion (oh god I hope it's the conclusion) of courting the Religious Right (you know, those who despite claiming to be Christian have a shocking lack of compassion) and the Far Right in the name of some extra votes.


I don't think Trump can really be blamed on courting the religious right. Remember, this is a guy with multiple divorces (after cheating on his wives) who is proudly crude and sexual and barely aware of Christian beliefs. If religion is important you can't possibly justify voting for Trump. But what the 2016 election revealed is that a lot of the religious right is far more concerned with right-wing issues like tax cuts, anti-immigration laws, etc, than with religion. IOW, the former religious right has lost its former power and sold its soul to cling to any last remaining scraps of influence.


Christians don't actually follow the teachings of Jesus. Trump's stuff falls into the category of things Christianity teaches.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/12 11:50:01


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Pouncey wrote:
Christians don't actually follow the teachings of Jesus. Trump's stuff falls into the category of things Christianity teaches.


Uh, no, Trump's stuff absolutely does not. Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Thinking about sexual things outside of marriage is a sin. Divorce and adultery are certainly sins. Boasting about grabbing random women by the is a sin. The closest Trump comes to doing the things the religious right teaches is his occasional pandering with things like supporting bathroom bills in front of a right-wing Christian audience shortly after opposing them in front of a non-Christian audience. But it's very clearly nothing more than insincere pandering, Trump doesn't care one bit about the religious right or their beliefs except as useful tools for getting elected.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BigWaaagh wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
I was under the impression that until April 1982, when the Canada Act passed, that you weren't a formally independent nation. I think I read that until 1977 when The Canadian Citizenship Act was revised that the phrase "A Canadian citizen is a British subject" appeared on your passports.


Well, I was born in 1988 and pretty much everything I've heard about Canadian history says that my country was created in 1867 when we got our own federal government.

I am not really interested in the opinions of Americans regarding when my country technically gained independence though.

Can we get back to trash-talking Trump?


I'm just saying. If another country can make laws in your country, i.e. Great Britain pre-1931, then independence isn't happening.

So, you see, going the decisive and bloody route to nationdom is most effect in removing of all the technicalities!


I... really don't care. Also I guess I shouldn't be surprised that an American is advocating war.

And don't worry, we've got at least 4 more years to throw darts at Donnie.


I still think we should send him to Mars and force him to pay for it.


Sorry if the facts I've cited don't jibe with your understanding of your country's history, but they are what they are. Once again, they're just fact, not opinions btw, as you stated earlier.

And yeah, I'm a regular warmonger. What a patently absurd statement.


With a name that in Ork means "big war" yeah its an easy leap to judgement.
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Peregrine wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
Christians don't actually follow the teachings of Jesus. Trump's stuff falls into the category of things Christianity teaches.


Uh, no, Trump's stuff absolutely does not. Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Thinking about sexual things outside of marriage is a sin. Divorce and adultery are certainly sins. Boasting about grabbing random women by the is a sin. The closest Trump comes to doing the things the religious right teaches is his occasional pandering with things like supporting bathroom bills in front of a right-wing Christian audience shortly after opposing them in front of a non-Christian audience. But it's very clearly nothing more than insincere pandering, Trump doesn't care one bit about the religious right or their beliefs except as useful tools for getting elected.


I think we know different Christians then. Since it's a very diverse religion, I'll simply drop the subject at that.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Pouncey wrote:
I think we know different Christians then. Since it's a very diverse religion, I'll simply drop the subject at that.


Given the fact that we're talking about the religious right in the US and you're in Canada, yes, I think we know different Christians.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Peregrine wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
I think we know different Christians then. Since it's a very diverse religion, I'll simply drop the subject at that.


Given the fact that we're talking about the religious right in the US and you're in Canada, yes, I think we know different Christians.


...I spend most of my time online. I'm around a wide variety of Americans all day.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

 Pouncey wrote:

If I were an American, I wonder how being a Satanist would affect my chances of being elected President...

Horribly. I doubt we'll have a non-christian president for the next forty years. Just being a Satanist loses you the vote of everyone who's brainwashed to believe that Satanists practice human sacrifice, summonings, blood orgies, etcetera. It would be taken about as well as transitioning to R'lyehian in a speech. ("My fellow Americans, it is necessary in this hard time to k'yarnak kadish sgn'wahl. Nyarlathotep c-nnn, c-vulgtlagln Nyarlathotep")
Sadly, you might get death threats.
I also doubt we'll have an unmarried president or president without children. "Traditional family" supporters make up too much of the population.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/12 12:08:44




Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Crazyterran wrote:
Americans talking about Canadian history, still deny they lost 1812.

Goal was to conquer Canada, they failed, and got the White House burned, yet it somehow doesn't count as a loss.


Likely because Canada had little to do with it, the British army repelled the invasion and burned the white house. The defeat of Napolean and the arrival of British elite troops turned the tide. Canada itself did nothing but provide a stomping ground.
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Verviedi wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:

If I were an American, I wonder how being a Satanist would affect my chances of being elected President...

Horribly. I doubt we'll have a non-christian president for the next forty years. Just being a Satanist loses you the vote of everyone who's brainwashed to believe that Satanists practice human sacrifice, summonings, blood orgies, etcetera. It would be taken about as well as transitioning to R'lyehian in a speech. ("My fellow Americans, it is necessary in this hard time to k'yarnak kadish sgn'wahl. Nyarlathotep c-nnn, c-vulgtlagln Nyarlathotep")
Sadly, you might get death threats.
I also doubt we'll have an unmarried president or president without children. "Traditional family" supporters make up too much of the population.


I'm a furry who spends a lot of time online. Death threats are nothing new.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 thekingofkings wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
Americans talking about Canadian history, still deny they lost 1812.

Goal was to conquer Canada, they failed, and got the White House burned, yet it somehow doesn't count as a loss.


Likely because Canada had little to do with it, the British army repelled the invasion and burned the white house. The defeat of Napolean and the arrival of British elite troops turned the tide. Canada itself did nothing but provide a stomping ground.


Uhhh... Canada was not its own country in 1812. Those British soldiers were Canadians, but before Canada was a thing.

And unlike America, we're not upset enough with Britain that we consider the distinction meaningful.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/12 12:23:54


 
   
 
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