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oldravenman3025 wrote: And as for the last part, I won't bite. Some seem to forget that OT is on probation. So, let's drop the attitude and keep it purely civil.
I apologize if I missed the announcement, but is OT really at risk of being axed? It is the second most viewed board on the forums.
Except, AGAIN, you're ignoring Perry's own fething statements in his own confirmation hearing today! How many fething times does that have to be pointed out to you?! He fething said himself that he had to be told everything the DoE was responsible for before he changed his mind! That means he didn't fething know everything the DoE was responsible for to begin with! THAT'S the point of debate here, and you're refusing to even accept Perry's own words today.
What was his own words... you show me that please.
The only thing I saw is that he regretted wanting to shut down that dept...
Fething Christ, man, I already told you two pages ago it's in every damned article covering his hearing, are you just being deliberately difficult?!
"My past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the Department of Energy do not reflect my current thinking,” he said, adding, “In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.”
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
jasper76 wrote: It's worth staying again: Rick Perry is a dunce.
Do you really want a bubbly-eyed fool in charge of our nuclear system?
Of course you don't.
Perry will be a fine administer.
He'll need to:
a) smooze lawmakers for stuff
b) enact directive by Trump administration
c) make budgets
d) manage the DOE peeps, whom are experts on what DOE peeps does...
If he was able to steer Texas alright... he'd be fine running the show at the DOE.
Except, AGAIN, you're ignoring Perry's own fething statements in his own confirmation hearing today! How many fething times does that have to be pointed out to you?! He fething said himself that he had to be told everything the DoE was responsible for before he changed his mind! That means he didn't fething know everything the DoE was responsible for to begin with! THAT'S the point of debate here, and you're refusing to even accept Perry's own words today.
What was his own words... you show me that please.
The only thing I saw is that he regretted wanting to shut down that dept...
Fething Christ, man, I already told you two pages ago it's in every damned article covering his hearing, are you just being deliberately difficult?!
"My past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the Department of Energy do not reflect my current thinking,” he said, adding, “In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.”
No. I didn't trust you as you summarized. I wanted something that was close to the transcript.
That's a tactic walkback.... an elegant one if I may add.
Furthermore, you have to realize that this is his confirmation hearing, so it's politicized.
Still... adds no redeeming aspect to that hackastic NTY hit job.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/20 04:11:39
jasper76 wrote: It's worth staying again: Rick Perry is a dunce.
Do you really want a bubbly-eyed fool in charge of our nuclear system?
Of course you don't.
Perry will be a fine administer.
He'll need to:
a) smooze lawmakers for stuff
b) enact directive by Trump administration
c) make budgets
d) manage the DOE peeps, whom are experts on what DOE peeps does...
If he was able to steer Texas alright... he'd be fine running the show at the DOE.
I can't tell these days whether you are having a go at me, or if this is a serious response.
In any case, beware Texans bearing gifts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/20 04:12:50
Except, AGAIN, you're ignoring Perry's own fething statements in his own confirmation hearing today! How many fething times does that have to be pointed out to you?! He fething said himself that he had to be told everything the DoE was responsible for before he changed his mind! That means he didn't fething know everything the DoE was responsible for to begin with! THAT'S the point of debate here, and you're refusing to even accept Perry's own words today.
What was his own words... you show me that please.
The only thing I saw is that he regretted wanting to shut down that dept...
Fething Christ, man, I already told you two pages ago it's in every damned article covering his hearing, are you just being deliberately difficult?!
"My past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the Department of Energy do not reflect my current thinking,” he said, adding, “In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.”
No. I didn't trust you as you summarized. I wanted something that was close to the transcript.
That's a tactic walkback.... an elegant one if I may add.
Furthermore, you have to realize that this is his confirmation hearing, so it's politicized.
Still... adds no redeeming aspect to that hackastic NTY hit job.
The NYT has feth all to do with the point at hand, you didn't have to "trust" me but instead do your own god damned reading, so, YES, you are being deliberately fething difficult! I am so absolutely done with your dishonesty and partisanship for now.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
jasper76 wrote: It's worth staying again: Rick Perry is a dunce.
Do you really want a bubbly-eyed fool in charge of our nuclear system?
Of course you don't.
Perry will be a fine administer.
He'll need to:
a) smooze lawmakers for stuff
b) enact directive by Trump administration
c) make budgets
d) manage the DOE peeps, whom are experts on what DOE peeps does...
If he was able to steer Texas alright... he'd be fine running the show at the DOE.
I can't tell these days whether you are having a go at me, or if this is a serious response.
I may agree with you if I hadn't heard Perry speak. He's an idiot, and he may be an alcoholic. He showed up drunk to a presidential press conference, what's to stop him drinking on the job?
I don't want someone mentally dependent on drink running our nukes, and I don't apologize for saying so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/20 04:22:18
jasper76 wrote: It's worth staying again: Rick Perry is a dunce.
Do you really want a bubbly-eyed fool in charge of our nuclear system?
Of course you don't.
Perry will be a fine administer.
He'll need to:
a) smooze lawmakers for stuff
b) enact directive by Trump administration
c) make budgets
d) manage the DOE peeps, whom are experts on what DOE peeps does...
If he was able to steer Texas alright... he'd be fine running the show at the DOE.
I can't tell these days whether you are having a go at me, or if this is a serious response.
In any case, beware Texans bearing gifts.
A big wooden horse...no, not gonna trust em,. A Tex-mex dinner..trust off the chain yo!
jasper76 wrote: It's worth staying again: Rick Perry is a dunce.
Do you really want a bubbly-eyed fool in charge of our nuclear system?
Of course you don't.
Perry will be a fine administer.
He'll need to:
a) smooze lawmakers for stuff
b) enact directive by Trump administration
c) make budgets
d) manage the DOE peeps, whom are experts on what DOE peeps does...
If he was able to steer Texas alright... he'd be fine running the show at the DOE.
I can't tell these days whether you are having a go at me, or if this is a serious response.
In any case, beware Texans bearing gifts.
A big wooden horse...no, not gonna trust em,. A Tex-mex dinner..trust off the chain yo!
True enough, sorry bit given Texans history of separatism, why would we trust them with anything, let alone out nuclear system?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/20 04:27:02
Except, AGAIN, you're ignoring Perry's own fething statements in his own confirmation hearing today! How many fething times does that have to be pointed out to you?! He fething said himself that he had to be told everything the DoE was responsible for before he changed his mind! That means he didn't fething know everything the DoE was responsible for to begin with! THAT'S the point of debate here, and you're refusing to even accept Perry's own words today.
What was his own words... you show me that please.
The only thing I saw is that he regretted wanting to shut down that dept...
Fething Christ, man, I already told you two pages ago it's in every damned article covering his hearing, are you just being deliberately difficult?!
"My past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the Department of Energy do not reflect my current thinking,” he said, adding, “In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.”
No. I didn't trust you as you summarized. I wanted something that was close to the transcript.
That's a tactic walkback.... an elegant one if I may add.
Furthermore, you have to realize that this is his confirmation hearing, so it's politicized.
Still... adds no redeeming aspect to that hackastic NTY hit job.
The NYT has feth all to do with the point at hand, you didn't have to "trust" me but instead do your own god damned reading, so, YES, you are being deliberately fething difficult! I am so absolutely done with your dishonesty and partisanship for now.
A) YOU were summarizing what he said, so I wanted to know where you getting this information.
B) YOU jumped into the NYT hit job discussion.
C) I think it's ridiculous to point out Perry's DoE walkback as it somehow demonstrates he's an idiot and shouldn't have been nominated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/20 04:29:19
whembly wrote: C) I think it's rediculous to point out Perry's DoE walkback as it somehow demonstrates he's an idiot and shouldn't have been nominated.
No, it's not ridiculous at all. You're talking about someone who called for a department to be abolished while having no clue what the department did, then suddenly changed his mind about it when he got the opportunity to be in charge of it. Either he's an idiot, or he's the kind of partisan who will rubber-stamp whatever right-wing ideology is popular without understanding anything about the subject. Either way he should not have been nominated.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
whembly wrote: Well... you can thank Harry Reid for making it difficult for Democrats to stop the Perry nomination.
And there we go, back to "The Other Team is wrong" as your only response. The problem is not that the democrats made obstructionism harder as a response to the republican party taking obstructionism to extremes previous generations would have considered insane, it's that the republican party has completely departed from reality. So stop blaming the democrats for the dysfunctional mess that Your Team has become.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
whembly wrote: Well... you can thank Harry Reid for making it difficult for Democrats to stop the Perry nomination.
And there we go, back to "The Other Team is wrong" as your only response. The problem is not that the democrats made obstructionism harder as a response to the republican party taking obstructionism to extremes previous generations would have considered insane, it's that the republican party has completely departed from reality. So stop blaming the democrats for the dysfunctional mess that Your Team has become.
The answer is simply the republican won... and kept on winning.
My problem is Reid neutering the filibuster that weakens the minority party... which the Democrats are now going to experience the repercussion at full-speed.
It's the same issue I'm going to have when the GOP Senate nukes the filibuster for the next SCoTUS pick.
It's shortsighted to weaken the minority party, as the GOP won't be the majority forever, and THEY'LL bear the brunt of a Democrat administration, with no means to stop a partisan unpopular pick.
Frazzled wrote: They both have boats and choppers (and helicopters too ). Give the responsibility to the Navy. Cut the bureaucracy.
It's an old cliche that merging removes overheads by removing top layers of management. That only works when the merged entities have significantly aligned activities. That isn't the case with coast guard and navy. The operations and processes done by each is very different.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: I apologize if I missed the announcement, but is OT really at risk of being axed? It is the second most viewed board on the forums.
Pg 59.
Last chance, folks. There's debate on closing the thread permanently, and some voices in favor of closing the OT forum permanently. Kindly conduct yourselves with at least a little decorum, and in accordance with Dakka's few rules.
This instance may have been my fault. In other discussions, I generally avoided using gender pronouns when discussing Inmate Manning, I slipped up, was accused of "misgendering" and outrage ensued. My B!
With that said, it's probably the most heavily moderated forum too.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
whembly wrote: The answer is simply the republican won... and kept on winning.
They're still a dysfunctional mess, as we're about to see now that they have to do more than yell "OBAMA SUCKS REPEAL OBAMA" at their rabid followers.
My problem is Reid neutering the filibuster that weakens the minority party... which the Democrats are now going to experience the repercussion at full-speed.
It's the same issue I'm going to have when the GOP Senate nukes the filibuster for the next SCoTUS pick.
It's shortsighted to weaken the minority party, as the GOP won't be the majority forever, and THEY'LL bear the brunt of a Democrat administration, with no means to stop a partisan unpopular pick.
We've been over this already. The system of having minority power depends on the minority using it responsibly. IOW, filibuster the most extreme examples of bad picks, let the rest get a vote. The republican party decided to replace that with obstructing everything as a general principle, so the only option was to fix the broken system so that the everyday business of governing the country could continue. If you want someone to blame it's Your Team, no matter how many times you overlook the part their dysfunctional mess played in changing those rules.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Prestor Jon wrote: Most of what the Dept of Ed does is handing out federal funding, making sure the right amounts go to the right schools with the right strings attached. It's a big factor in a lot of the problems we have in public education. The qualifications that schools have to meet to get their federal funding is primarily getting good test scores on federally mandated end of grade tests. That's why 3rd graders at my kids elementary school get stress counseling and teachers get stuck having to teach to the test, because if the kids don't get good marks on their EOG standardized tests then the school loses money. If you don't like economic policy that just amounts to the rich getting richer then I don't know why you're a fan of this education policy.
Nothing you wrote has anything to do with what I posted. It's just a boilerplate "NCLB is bad" post. Nothing wrong with pointing out the many issues with NCLB and the general idea of standardised testing = funding. The question is about how it might be fixed, and more specifically how the incoming presidency plans to address the issue.
The big idea from DeVos is that you give public money to support kids moving in to non-public schools. It's an okay idea, that might work if well managed. The issue is how you manage to ensure that lots of private schools of varying means, sizes and goals are delivering results for kids and giving a reasonable return on taxpayer funds. DeVos has shown she has little interest in actually monitoring this in a meaningful way. That's the issue here.
If you want some actual experience in this, here in WA (and more generally Australia wide) we just went through a process of opening up vocational education to private companies - the new scheme gave them govt funding for each student they took on much the same as the voucher system proposed in the US. I was actually part of seeing all this role out, as I was working at one of the state vocational schools at the time. At its core the scheme isn't too bad, there's plenty of training types the private sector can deliver at a lower cost, and having a range of private actors offering courses makes for a more flexible market as private actors can raise and lower capacity more easily to meet market demand. However, all that counts for nought if you don't have an effective scheme in place to monitor what these schools are delivering. What we saw was a range of fly by night companies geared to take student fees and government money, who'd then offer as little as possible until they collapsed, and then start up next term under a new name. It wasted government money and cost students a wasted year or two.
Lessons were learned, better monitoring schemes were put in place and the industry is slowly starting to right itself. A similar thing has occurred with college loans and shonky for profits in the US tertiary sector, which is slowly being fixed with better monitoring.
And now we have DeVos coming in to the job, with little interest in the existing monitoring system on US private colleges, and wanting to bring in a similar system in primary and secondary education, again with little interest in monitoring.
The problem isn't hard to spot.
Instead of having the Federal govt collect Federal taxes from state residents just to then send that money back to the schools those residents use via a convoluted Federal program the Federal govt should collect less tax revenue, not give money to schools and leave the states and local govts to run the schools and collect taxes to fund them. The Dept of Ed has no idea what my local schools are like, there are no Dept of Ed employees who take the time to research the schools and find out exactly what the successes and failures of each are and how they're doing. The Dept of Ed only knows my local schools as a table of test results that is used to determine federal funding payments. My county school board, school superintendent, principals, state representatives and state dept of Education actually know what's going on with my local schools, collects data on the schools and student performance and most importantly they are much more susceptible to the desires of the public they serve than Federal bureaucrats and cabinet appointees that don't give a feth about my kids because they don't even know they exist.
You just finished a bit in which you claim to be concerned about the rich getting richer, and then here you are saying each school district should pay for itself, with little to no interest shown in the massive differences in resources available to rich compared to poor districts. Wow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/20 08:40:26
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
oldravenman3025 wrote: It's always been like this every since the Federal government decided to stick it's nasty paws into what is essentially a State and local matter (education), playing fast and loose with the Interstate Commerce Clause to justify it. It's mostly just a means for cynical/greedy politicians to score brownie points with voters during Federal elections.
There have been calls to get the Feds out of the education business since the 1980's. And in my view, it's long overdue.
Good to know you hate children in poorer states then.
whembly wrote: The answer is simply the republican won... and kept on winning.
If the only goal is to be in power, then Republicans are doing okay. If there's a greater goal of winning power in order to make a stronger and more prosperous country, then the Republicans are in real trouble. Trump isn't just a once off. The last president before this was GW Bush. Republican politics has been dominated by the deeply stupid, needlessly confrontational freedom caucus, who it far more difficult for Boehner to govern than anything the Democrats did. Republicans are now walking in to government with a set of policy goals that are either economic or political insanity, and often both.
In a two party system parties are going to win something around half the time just by existing. The issue is what you do when you're in office. What Republicans are set up to do is catastrophic. The only limit on it is that it's likely they won't get that much of it done (Bush had 8 years, four with both houses of the legislature, and got hardly any of his agenda through).
I mean hey, you may be looking forward to your glorious summer made by this sun of (New) York, and hey I guess there's a chance I could be wrong and we're about to see a new age of rainbows and puppies. Maybe third time is a charm with tax cuts for the rich. Maybe 20 million people losing their insurance will become motivated to bootstrap themselves up, start their own businesses and all become millionaires.
Or you know, maybe the 2006 and 2008 electoral disasters for Republicans were nothing compared to what we'll soon see.
My problem is Reid neutering the filibuster that weakens the minority party... which the Democrats are now going to experience the repercussion at full-speed.
As I've said before, the filibuster was only ever going to last as long as the minority treated that power with the restraint required of a minority party. Republicans rejected all appointments as a matter of general policy, it made the system unworkable and forced the rules change.
If you have a problem with how the rule was changed, you probably should have listened to me back when I was telling you it was important for Republicans to respect not just the letter of the law but the tradition of how the parties behaved. When you change the culture, you never really know where the new equilibrium will settle.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
SickSix wrote: Good morning everyone! Today is going to be a great day in America! Hope everyone has a good day today.
Not so sure what's so great for america to have a president whose politics are so bad for america one has to wonder if he's not intentionally aiming to damage america. Frankly he's more of a traitor than Snowden etc could hope to be.
who will rubber-stamp whatever right-wing ideology is popular without understanding anything about the subject. Either way he should not have been nominated.
). Give the responsibility to the Navy. Cut the bureaucracy.
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 