Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The conditions that produced Fascism in the 1920s and 1930s are so unique, that they are unlikely to be seen on this Earth ever again, and thank God for that.

Trump is a lot of things, but talk of Fascism is miles off the mark.

For example. Have we:

Just came out of a world war that killed millions of people and shattered countries, thus destabilising and destroying the established social order?

Are we worried about the newly created Soviet Union and its threats to spread Communism across the globe, thus encouraging support for Fascism?

Is there a centuries long acceptance of anti-Semitism driving government policy in Europe?

Are there hundreds of thousands of embittered ex-Soldiers in Germany and Italy?

Fascism takes many forms, but I feel a lot of newspapers are wildly out of control.

By all means criticise Trump - he deserves it, but I think we're in danger of diluting the term Fascism, and that is a tragedy.

Ask your grand-parents or your great-grandparents about what REAL Fascism looks like.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The conditions that produced Fascism in the 1920s and 1930s are so unique, that they are unlikely to be seen on this Earth ever again, and thank God for that.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Ask your grand-parents or your great-grandparents about what REAL Fascism looks like.

They will tell you that, at first, it didn't look as bad as it sounded. For the people who put the fascist people in power, I mean.

What most people forget about Fascism is that it didn't suddenly pop up one day. It was carefully (and gradually) prepared, so that the people behind it were finally in charge.

What happens now in America is just the first step. True, it's not Fascism right now...but there are many signs pointing that it may become something very similar, and as much destructive.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

For example. Have we:

Just came out of a world war that killed millions of people and shattered countries, thus destabilising and destroying the established social order?

Are we worried about the newly created Soviet Union and its threats to spread Communism across the globe, thus encouraging support for Fascism?

Is there a centuries long acceptance of anti-Semitism driving government policy in Europe?

Are there hundreds of thousands of embittered ex-Soldiers in Germany and Italy?

Fascism takes many forms, but I feel a lot of newspapers are wildly out of control.

Sentinel1 wrote:

In other news Austria is considering banning Muslim head wear like France, Donald Trump hasn't suggested anything like this, but because he is an easy target to blame people go crazy. No one has protested about Muslims not being allowed to wear head scarfs elsewhere e.g. France and yet I would say that is a more serious topic on racism for all would-be-do-everything-gooders.

SECRET FBI RULES allow agents to obtain journalists’ phone records with approval from two internal officials — far less oversight than under normal judicial procedures.

The classified rules, obtained by The Intercept and dating from 2013, govern the FBI’s use of national security letters, which allow the bureau to obtain information about journalists’ calls without going to a judge or informing the news organization being targeted. They have previously been released only in heavily redacted form.

Media advocates said the documents show that the FBI imposes few constraints on itself when it bypasses the requirement to go to court and obtain subpoenas or search warrants before accessing journalists’ information.

The rules stipulate that obtaining a journalist’s records with a national security letter requires the signoff of the FBI’s general counsel and the executive assistant director of the bureau’s National Security Branch, in addition to the regular chain of approval. Generally speaking, there are a variety of FBI officials, including the agents in charge of field offices, who can sign off that an NSL is “relevant” to a national security investigation.

There is an extra step under the rules if the NSL targets a journalist in order “to identify confidential news media sources.” In that case, the general counsel and the executive assistant director must first consult with the assistant attorney general for the Justice Department’s National Security Division.

But if the NSL is trying to identify a leaker by targeting the records of the potential source, and not the journalist, the Justice Department doesn’t need to be involved.

The guidelines also specify that the extra oversight layers do not apply if the journalist is believed to be a spy or is part of a news organization “associated with a foreign intelligence service” or “otherwise acting on behalf of a foreign power.” Unless, again, the purpose is to identify a leak, in which case the general counsel and executive assistant director must approve the request.

“These supposed rules are incredibly weak and almost nonexistent — as long as they have that second signoff, they’re basically good to go,” said Trevor Timm, executive director of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, which has sued the Justice Department for the release of these rules. “The FBI is entirely able to go after journalists and with only one extra hoop they have to jump through.”
A spokesperson for the FBI, Christopher Allen, declined to comment on the rules or say if they had been changed since 2013, except to say that they are “very clear” that “the FBI cannot predicate investigative activity solely on the exercise of First Amendment rights.”

The Obama administration has come under criticism for bringing a record number of leak prosecutions and aggressively targeting journalists in the process. In 2013, after it came out that the Justice Department had secretly seized records from phone lines at the Associated Press and surveilled Fox News reporter James Rosen, then-Attorney General Eric Holder tightened the rules for when prosecutors could go after journalists. The new policies emphasized that reporters would not be prosecuted for “newsgathering activities,” and that the government would “seek evidence from or involving the news media” as a “last resort” and an “extraordinary measure.” The FBI could not label reporters as co-conspirators in order to try to identify their sources — as had happened with Rosen — and it became more difficult to get journalists’ phone records without notifying the news organization first.

Yet these changes did not apply to NSLs. Those are governed by a separate set of rules, laid out in a classified annex to the FBI’s operating manual, known as the Domestic Investigations and Operations Guide, or DIOG. The full version of that guide, including the classified annex, was last made public in redacted form in 2011.

The section of the annex on NSLs obtained by The Intercept dates from October 2013 and is marked “last updated October 2011.” It is classified as secret with an additional restriction against distribution to any non-U.S. citizens.

Emails from FBI lawyers in 2015, which were released earlier this year to the Freedom of the Press Foundation, reference an update to this portion of the DIOG, but it is not clear from the heavily redacted emails what changes were actually made.

In a January 2015 email to a number of FBI employee lists, James Baker, the general counsel of the FBI, attached the new attorney general’s policy and wrote that “with the increased focus on media issues,” the FBI and Justice Department would “continue to review the DIOG and other internal policy guides to determine if additional changes or requirements are necessary.”

“Please be mindful of these media issues,” he continued, and advised consulting with the general counsel’s office “prior to implementing any techniques targeting the media.” But the email also explicitly notes that the new guidelines do not apply to “national security tools.”

Allen, the FBI spokesperson, told The Intercept in an emailed statement that “the FBI periodically reviews and updates the DIOG as needed” and that “certainly the FBI’s DIOG remains consistent with all [attorney general] guidelines.”

Bruce Brown, executive director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, said that the “use of NSLs as a way around the protections in the guidelines is a serious concern for news organizations.”

Last week, the Reporters Committee filed a brief in support of the Freedom of the Press Foundation’s lawsuit for the FBI’s NSL rules and other documents on behalf of 37 news organizations, including The Intercept’s publisher, First Look Media. (First Look also provides funding to both the Reporters Committee and the Freedom of the Press Foundation, and several Intercept staffers serve on the foundation’s board.)

Seeing the rules in their uncensored form, Timm, of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, said that the FBI should not have kept them classified.

“Redacting the fact that they need a little extra signoff from supervisors doesn’t come close to protecting state secrets,” he said.

The FBI issues thousands of NSLs each year, including nearly 13,000 in 2015. Over the years, a series of inspector general reports found significant problems with their use, yet the FBI is currently pushing to expand the types of information it can demand with an NSL. The scope of NSLs has long been limited to basic subscriber information and toll billing information — which number called which, when, and for how long — as well as some financial and banking records. But the FBI had made a habit of asking companies to hand over more revealing data on internet usage, which could include email header information (though not the subject lines or content of emails) and browsing history. The 2013 NSL rules for the media only mention telephone toll records.

Another controversial aspect of NSLs is that they come with a gag order preventing companies from disclosing even the fact that they’ve received one. Court challenges and legislative changes have loosened that restriction a bit, allowing companies to disclose how many NSLs they receive, in broad ranges, and in a few cases, to describe the materials the FBI had demanded of them in more detail. Earlier this month, Yahoo became the first company to release three NSLs it had received in recent years.

It’s unclear how often the FBI has used NSLs to get journalists’ records. Barton Gellman, of the Washington Post, has said that he was told his phone records had been obtained via an NSL.

The FBI could also potentially demand journalists’ information through an application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (or FISA court), which, like NSLs, would also not be covered by the Justice Department policy. The rules for that process are still obscure. The emails about revisions to the FBI guidelines reference a “FISA portion,” but most of the discussion is redacted.

For Brown, of the Reporters Committee, the disclosure of the rules “only confirms that we need information about the actual frequency and context of NSL practice relating to newsgathering and journalists’ records to assess the effectiveness of the new guidelines.”

A man who President Donald Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.

Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the president, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.

In a post earlier this month, Phillips described "an amazing effort" by volunteers tied to True the Vote, an organization whose board he sits on, who he said found "thousands of duplicate records and registrations of dead people."

Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.

The AP found that Phillips was registered in Alabama and Texas under the name Gregg Allen Phillips, with the identical Social Security number. Mississippi records list him under the name Gregg A. Phillips, and that record includes the final four digits of Phillips' Social Security number, his correct date of birth and a prior address matching one once attached to Gregg Allen Phillips. He has lived in all three states.

Sentinel1 wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of bs semantic word play in this thread, for nothing more than partisan foolishness, by individuals trying to polish this turd stain of an EO. Here's what's actually happening on the front line and it's nothing but shameful behavior on behalf of this administration. Can't you can smell the "greatness"?!


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/migrants-were-told-to-sign-away-right-to-enter-us-lawyers-say/ar-AAmr1JC?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=ASUDHP


How very in keeping with all those proclaimed and venerated Christian values the conservatives love to hold up as their guiding light...the hypocrisy truly does stink to high heaven and I can only hope that if there is indeed, a God, then some of these fethers are going to have some serious explaining to do before the Man.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump%e2%80%99s-refugee-ban-is-a-matter-of-life-and-death-for-some-including-a-1-year-old-with-cancer/ar-AAmqMST?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=ASUDHP

Heres another case of sour grapes! People around the world will just have to deal with Trump for the next 4 years, rather than bicker about 'oohs Trump worse than ooh' we should be trying to all get on with life. Another case of witch-hunt-on-Trump was last night in the UK where thousands of people in London and another major cities and pointlessly protested so that the government had to waste one entire debate on whether it was legal to invite Trump for tea! Needless to say those said people achieved nothing and Trump has been invited by Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen.

As I have said before you will have to live with his impact, but at least give the man a full year before condemning him as the worst human being ever. If you want to look for worse leaders, look no further than Saudi Arabia; a country where women have no rights, where a Christian man was nearly whipped to death because he had brought a bottle of wine into the country, a country which openly does not follow human rights laws, and a country where the rich don't even recognise the poor, as they are a different clan.

Now before this thread gets derailed, lets go back onto a clean topic without so much Trump bashing rhetoric...

Sentinel1 wrote:

In other news Austria is considering banning Muslim head wear like France, Donald Trump hasn't suggested anything like this, but because he is an easy target to blame people go crazy. No one has protested about Muslims not being allowed to wear head scarfs elsewhere e.g. France and yet I would say that is a more serious topic on racism for all would-be-do-everything-gooders.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Ask your grand-parents or your great-grandparents about what REAL Fascism looks like.

 reds8n wrote:
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/secret-rules-make-it-pretty-easy-for-the-fbi-to-spy-on-journalists-2/

SECRET FBI RULES allow agents to obtain journalists’ phone records with approval from two internal officials — far less oversight than under normal judicial procedures.

The classified rules, obtained by The Intercept and dating from 2013, govern the FBI’s use of national security letters, which allow the bureau to obtain information about journalists’ calls without going to a judge or informing the news organization being targeted. They have previously been released only in heavily redacted form.

Media advocates said the documents show that the FBI imposes few constraints on itself when it bypasses the requirement to go to court and obtain subpoenas or search warrants before accessing journalists’ information.

The rules stipulate that obtaining a journalist’s records with a national security letter requires the signoff of the FBI’s general counsel and the executive assistant director of the bureau’s National Security Branch, in addition to the regular chain of approval. Generally speaking, there are a variety of FBI officials, including the agents in charge of field offices, who can sign off that an NSL is “relevant” to a national security investigation.

There is an extra step under the rules if the NSL targets a journalist in order “to identify confidential news media sources.” In that case, the general counsel and the executive assistant director must first consult with the assistant attorney general for the Justice Department’s National Security Division.

But if the NSL is trying to identify a leaker by targeting the records of the potential source, and not the journalist, the Justice Department doesn’t need to be involved.

The guidelines also specify that the extra oversight layers do not apply if the journalist is believed to be a spy or is part of a news organization “associated with a foreign intelligence service” or “otherwise acting on behalf of a foreign power.” Unless, again, the purpose is to identify a leak, in which case the general counsel and executive assistant director must approve the request.

“These supposed rules are incredibly weak and almost nonexistent — as long as they have that second signoff, they’re basically good to go,” said Trevor Timm, executive director of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, which has sued the Justice Department for the release of these rules. “The FBI is entirely able to go after journalists and with only one extra hoop they have to jump through.”
A spokesperson for the FBI, Christopher Allen, declined to comment on the rules or say if they had been changed since 2013, except to say that they are “very clear” that “the FBI cannot predicate investigative activity solely on the exercise of First Amendment rights.”

The Obama administration has come under criticism for bringing a record number of leak prosecutions and aggressively targeting journalists in the process. In 2013, after it came out that the Justice Department had secretly seized records from phone lines at the Associated Press and surveilled Fox News reporter James Rosen, then-Attorney General Eric Holder tightened the rules for when prosecutors could go after journalists. The new policies emphasized that reporters would not be prosecuted for “newsgathering activities,” and that the government would “seek evidence from or involving the news media” as a “last resort” and an “extraordinary measure.” The FBI could not label reporters as co-conspirators in order to try to identify their sources — as had happened with Rosen — and it became more difficult to get journalists’ phone records without notifying the news organization first.

Yet these changes did not apply to NSLs. Those are governed by a separate set of rules, laid out in a classified annex to the FBI’s operating manual, known as the Domestic Investigations and Operations Guide, or DIOG. The full version of that guide, including the classified annex, was last made public in redacted form in 2011.

The section of the annex on NSLs obtained by The Intercept dates from October 2013 and is marked “last updated October 2011.” It is classified as secret with an additional restriction against distribution to any non-U.S. citizens.

Emails from FBI lawyers in 2015, which were released earlier this year to the Freedom of the Press Foundation, reference an update to this portion of the DIOG, but it is not clear from the heavily redacted emails what changes were actually made.

In a January 2015 email to a number of FBI employee lists, James Baker, the general counsel of the FBI, attached the new attorney general’s policy and wrote that “with the increased focus on media issues,” the FBI and Justice Department would “continue to review the DIOG and other internal policy guides to determine if additional changes or requirements are necessary.”

“Please be mindful of these media issues,” he continued, and advised consulting with the general counsel’s office “prior to implementing any techniques targeting the media.” But the email also explicitly notes that the new guidelines do not apply to “national security tools.”

Allen, the FBI spokesperson, told The Intercept in an emailed statement that “the FBI periodically reviews and updates the DIOG as needed” and that “certainly the FBI’s DIOG remains consistent with all [attorney general] guidelines.”

Bruce Brown, executive director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, said that the “use of NSLs as a way around the protections in the guidelines is a serious concern for news organizations.”

Last week, the Reporters Committee filed a brief in support of the Freedom of the Press Foundation’s lawsuit for the FBI’s NSL rules and other documents on behalf of 37 news organizations, including The Intercept’s publisher, First Look Media. (First Look also provides funding to both the Reporters Committee and the Freedom of the Press Foundation, and several Intercept staffers serve on the foundation’s board.)

Seeing the rules in their uncensored form, Timm, of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, said that the FBI should not have kept them classified.

“Redacting the fact that they need a little extra signoff from supervisors doesn’t come close to protecting state secrets,” he said.

The FBI issues thousands of NSLs each year, including nearly 13,000 in 2015. Over the years, a series of inspector general reports found significant problems with their use, yet the FBI is currently pushing to expand the types of information it can demand with an NSL. The scope of NSLs has long been limited to basic subscriber information and toll billing information — which number called which, when, and for how long — as well as some financial and banking records. But the FBI had made a habit of asking companies to hand over more revealing data on internet usage, which could include email header information (though not the subject lines or content of emails) and browsing history. The 2013 NSL rules for the media only mention telephone toll records.

Another controversial aspect of NSLs is that they come with a gag order preventing companies from disclosing even the fact that they’ve received one. Court challenges and legislative changes have loosened that restriction a bit, allowing companies to disclose how many NSLs they receive, in broad ranges, and in a few cases, to describe the materials the FBI had demanded of them in more detail. Earlier this month, Yahoo became the first company to release three NSLs it had received in recent years.

It’s unclear how often the FBI has used NSLs to get journalists’ records. Barton Gellman, of the Washington Post, has said that he was told his phone records had been obtained via an NSL.

The FBI could also potentially demand journalists’ information through an application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (or FISA court), which, like NSLs, would also not be covered by the Justice Department policy. The rules for that process are still obscure. The emails about revisions to the FBI guidelines reference a “FISA portion,” but most of the discussion is redacted.

For Brown, of the Reporters Committee, the disclosure of the rules “only confirms that we need information about the actual frequency and context of NSL practice relating to newsgathering and journalists’ records to assess the effectiveness of the new guidelines.”

links via the above link.


https://apnews.com/80497cfb5f054c9b8c9e0f8f5ca30a62?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

A man who President Donald Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.

Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the president, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.

In a post earlier this month, Phillips described "an amazing effort" by volunteers tied to True the Vote, an organization whose board he sits on, who he said found "thousands of duplicate records and registrations of dead people."

Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.

The AP found that Phillips was registered in Alabama and Texas under the name Gregg Allen Phillips, with the identical Social Security number. Mississippi records list him under the name Gregg A. Phillips, and that record includes the final four digits of Phillips' Social Security number, his correct date of birth and a prior address matching one once attached to Gregg Allen Phillips. He has lived in all three states.

In some ways it's the incredible incompetence of the new administration that is so frustrating.

nearly.

Sentinel1 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sentinel1 wrote:

In other news Austria is considering banning Muslim head wear like France, Donald Trump hasn't suggested anything like this, but because he is an easy target to blame people go crazy. No one has protested about Muslims not being allowed to wear head scarfs elsewhere e.g. France and yet I would say that is a more serious topic on racism for all would-be-do-everything-gooders.

People have begun to try in the USA:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/us/burqa-ban-bill-georgia-trnd/

In other news Austria is considering banning Muslim head wear like France, Donald Trump hasn't suggested anything like this, but because he is an easy target to blame people go crazy. No one has protested about Muslims not being allowed to wear head scarfs elsewhere e.g. France and yet I would say that is a more serious topic on racism for all would-be-do-everything-gooders.

People have begun to try in the USA:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/us/burqa-ban-bill-georgia-trnd/

I didn't know that, but reading the article some of that bill does make sense such as not wearing a full face mask dress for I.D photos as anyone could claim to be that I.D when a face isn't shown. Also to a lesser extent I could understand the reasons for not wearing them whilst driving as it must restrict visibility. Personally I don't understand why women still wear such an outdated piece of clothing. It was just another rule used to control women by men, women unfortunately are still a mans property in some Islamic countries and being forced to wear such a thing takes away everything that makes a person an individual.

Also going back to the article, interestingly enough a terrorist escaped police in the U.K for a while; he was un-surveillance to be apprehended and went to a Mosque. Police clocked him going in with a description. He put on a ladies Burkha full cover dress and casually walked out. The police had no idea it was him, he didn't get very far but it shows you anyone can exploit it.

Sentinel1 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sentinel1 wrote:

In other news Austria is considering banning Muslim head wear like France, Donald Trump hasn't suggested anything like this, but because he is an easy target to blame people go crazy. No one has protested about Muslims not being allowed to wear head scarfs elsewhere e.g. France and yet I would say that is a more serious topic on racism for all would-be-do-everything-gooders.

People have begun to try in the USA:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/us/burqa-ban-bill-georgia-trnd/

I didn't know that, but reading the article some of that bill does make sense such as not wearing a full face mask dress for I.D photos as anyone could claim to be that I.D when a face isn't shown. Also to a lesser extent I could understand the reasons for not wearing them whilst driving as it must restrict visibility. Personally I don't understand why women still wear such an outdated piece of clothing. It was just another rule used to control women by men, women unfortunately are still a mans property in some Islamic countries and being forced to wear such a thing takes away everything that makes a person an individual.

Also going back to the article, interestingly enough a terrorist escaped police in the U.K for a while; he was un-surveillance to be apprehended and went to a Mosque. Police clocked him going in with a description. He put on a ladies Burkha full cover dress and casually walked out. The police had no idea it was him, he didn't get very far but it shows you anyone can exploit it.

 BigWaaagh wrote:

Sentinel1 wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of bs semantic word play in this thread, for nothing more than partisan foolishness, by individuals trying to polish this turd stain of an EO. Here's what's actually happening on the front line and it's nothing but shameful behavior on behalf of this administration. Can't you can smell the "greatness"?!


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/migrants-were-told-to-sign-away-right-to-enter-us-lawyers-say/ar-AAmr1JC?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=ASUDHP


How very in keeping with all those proclaimed and venerated Christian values the conservatives love to hold up as their guiding light...the hypocrisy truly does stink to high heaven and I can only hope that if there is indeed, a God, then some of these fethers are going to have some serious explaining to do before the Man.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump%e2%80%99s-refugee-ban-is-a-matter-of-life-and-death-for-some-including-a-1-year-old-with-cancer/ar-AAmqMST?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=ASUDHP

Heres another case of sour grapes! People around the world will just have to deal with Trump for the next 4 years, rather than bicker about 'oohs Trump worse than ooh' we should be trying to all get on with life. Another case of witch-hunt-on-Trump was last night in the UK where thousands of people in London and another major cities and pointlessly protested so that the government had to waste one entire debate on whether it was legal to invite Trump for tea! Needless to say those said people achieved nothing and Trump has been invited by Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen.

As I have said before you will have to live with his impact, but at least give the man a full year before condemning him as the worst human being ever. If you want to look for worse leaders, look no further than Saudi Arabia; a country where women have no rights, where a Christian man was nearly whipped to death because he had brought a bottle of wine into the country, a country which openly does not follow human rights laws, and a country where the rich don't even recognise the poor, as they are a different clan.

Now before this thread gets derailed, lets go back onto a clean topic without so much Trump bashing rhetoric...

NOPE! Sorry, Neville Chamberlain, appeasement is not in my bag and other leaders don't govern my country.

 BigWaaagh wrote:
What is it called when the guy crying 'Wolf' is flagrantly guilty himself...but let's just give Trump "a few more years" to work things out. NOPE.

"Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it is one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that improper votes by 3 to 5 million "illegals" cost him the popular vote in November."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ap-man-claiming-3m-improper-votes-registered-in-3-states/ar-AAmqvvv?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=ASUDHP

 reds8n wrote:

A man who President Donald Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.

Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the president, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.

In a post earlier this month, Phillips described "an amazing effort" by volunteers tied to True the Vote, an organization whose board he sits on, who he said found "thousands of duplicate records and registrations of dead people."

Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.

The AP found that Phillips was registered in Alabama and Texas under the name Gregg Allen Phillips, with the identical Social Security number. Mississippi records list him under the name Gregg A. Phillips, and that record includes the final four digits of Phillips' Social Security number, his correct date of birth and a prior address matching one once attached to Gregg Allen Phillips. He has lived in all three states.

In some ways it's the incredible incompetence of the new administration that is so frustrating.

nearly.

 BigWaaagh wrote:
What is it called when the guy crying 'Wolf' is flagrantly guilty himself...but let's just give Trump "a few more years" to work things out. NOPE.

"Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it is one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that improper votes by 3 to 5 million "illegals" cost him the popular vote in November."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ap-man-claiming-3m-improper-votes-registered-in-3-states/ar-AAmqvvv?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=ASUDHP

 LordofHats wrote:

 reds8n wrote:

A man who President Donald Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.

Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the president, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.

In a post earlier this month, Phillips described "an amazing effort" by volunteers tied to True the Vote, an organization whose board he sits on, who he said found "thousands of duplicate records and registrations of dead people."

Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.

The AP found that Phillips was registered in Alabama and Texas under the name Gregg Allen Phillips, with the identical Social Security number. Mississippi records list him under the name Gregg A. Phillips, and that record includes the final four digits of Phillips' Social Security number, his correct date of birth and a prior address matching one once attached to Gregg Allen Phillips. He has lived in all three states.

In some ways it's the incredible incompetence of the new administration that is so frustrating.

nearly.

It honestly probably just goes to show how stupid a measure for fraud "registered in multiple states" is. I was probably registered in at least three states in 2016, simply because I didn't exactly call up the Election Boards in Kansas or Virginia that I had moved to Pennsylvania. Rolls are not purged frequently in many states, so once you're registered you can end up on their rolls for a long time. Hell for all I know I'm still registered in North Carolina from oh so many years ago. There are hordes of dead people on the rolls in many states because the rolls are never checked against obituaries so the people maintaining them don't know when someone dies unless you call them up and tell them which is not part of the usual "my dad died" procedures.

There are likely hordes of Americans registered in multiple states, but it's a piss poor indication of where they voted and it's terrible evidence of voter fraud.

Sentinel1 wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
What is it called when the guy crying 'Wolf' is flagrantly guilty himself...but let's just give Trump "a few more years" to work things out. NOPE.

"Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it is one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that improper votes by 3 to 5 million "illegals" cost him the popular vote in November."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ap-man-claiming-3m-improper-votes-registered-in-3-states/ar-AAmqvvv?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=ASUDHP

I imagine there is widespread voter fraud on both sides, this thing about multi-state voting has probably been used in the Obama elections too. For right or wrong reasons, you can't argue that Trump is bringing light on topics that haven't been widely discussed -ones that hinder and ones that help him. The problem is both the Republicans and Democrats get so up themselves fact becomes blurred to fiction and little if anything is actually done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

 reds8n wrote:

A man who President Donald Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.

Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the president, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.

In a post earlier this month, Phillips described "an amazing effort" by volunteers tied to True the Vote, an organization whose board he sits on, who he said found "thousands of duplicate records and registrations of dead people."

Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.

The AP found that Phillips was registered in Alabama and Texas under the name Gregg Allen Phillips, with the identical Social Security number. Mississippi records list him under the name Gregg A. Phillips, and that record includes the final four digits of Phillips' Social Security number, his correct date of birth and a prior address matching one once attached to Gregg Allen Phillips. He has lived in all three states.

In some ways it's the incredible incompetence of the new administration that is so frustrating.

nearly.

It honestly probably just goes to show how stupid a measure for fraud "registered in multiple states" is. I was probably registered in at least three states in 2016, simply because I didn't exactly call up the Election Boards in Kansas or Virginia that I had moved to Pennsylvania. Rolls are not purged frequently in many states, so once you're registered you can end up on their rolls for a long time. Hell for all I know I'm still registered in North Carolina from oh so many years ago. There are hordes of dead people on the rolls in many states because the rolls are never checked against obituaries so the people maintaining them don't know when someone dies unless you call them up and tell them which is not part of the usual "my dad died" procedures.

There are likely hordes of Americans registered in multiple states, but it's a piss poor indication of where they voted and it's terrible evidence of voter fraud.

Sounds like the foundations of 40ks Administratum!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A general reply to those who replied to my earlier post about what Fascism is.

I'll try to avoid going OT.

ISIL is a threat, but to compare this to powerful nation states such as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, states that had coherent ideologies and powerful militaries, is risible nonsense in my book.

The post-WW2 Soviet Union was a clear and present danger to the West, as it had 300 Divisions ready to roll across Europe, and a powerful nuclear arsenal to back them up...which could have wiped out humanity a dozen times over.

ISIL, though a regional problem, with the odd inspired terrorist attack here and there, is not even in the same ball park, the same city, as the Soviet Union.

The USA was nearly strangled at birth, could have been snuffed out during the war of 1812, and was almost destroyed by its civil war. If Lee had won at Antietam, and the British had come over on the South's side, then the Union was finished, and we're looking at the CSA. That's how close it was...

The USA has survived many threats and challenges in its 250+ years, but it's still here because of the strength of those institutions, the foundations are strong, and its love of liberty will never die.

Yes, the war on terror was and has been a disaster IMO, but the best comparison I can make is Vietnam.

The War on Terror is Vietnam 2.0, and Trump is approaching Richard Nixon territory,

but the USA came through Vietnam and Nixon, and it will survive Trump, because the foundations are strong, very strong...

That's my take.

 BigWaaagh wrote:

Sentinel1 wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
What is it called when the guy crying 'Wolf' is flagrantly guilty himself...but let's just give Trump "a few more years" to work things out. NOPE.

I imagine there is widespread voter fraud on both sides, this thing about multi-state voting has probably been used in the Obama elections too. For right or wrong reasons, you can't argue that Trump is bringing light on topics that haven't been widely discussed -ones that hinder and ones that help him. The problem is both the Republicans and Democrats get so up themselves fact becomes blurred to fiction and little if anything is actually done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

 reds8n wrote:

A man who President Donald Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.

Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the president, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.

In a post earlier this month, Phillips described "an amazing effort" by volunteers tied to True the Vote, an organization whose board he sits on, who he said found "thousands of duplicate records and registrations of dead people."

Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.

The AP found that Phillips was registered in Alabama and Texas under the name Gregg Allen Phillips, with the identical Social Security number. Mississippi records list him under the name Gregg A. Phillips, and that record includes the final four digits of Phillips' Social Security number, his correct date of birth and a prior address matching one once attached to Gregg Allen Phillips. He has lived in all three states.

In some ways it's the incredible incompetence of the new administration that is so frustrating.

nearly.

It honestly probably just goes to show how stupid a measure for fraud "registered in multiple states" is. I was probably registered in at least three states in 2016, simply because I didn't exactly call up the Election Boards in Kansas or Virginia that I had moved to Pennsylvania. Rolls are not purged frequently in many states, so once you're registered you can end up on their rolls for a long time. Hell for all I know I'm still registered in North Carolina from oh so many years ago. There are hordes of dead people on the rolls in many states because the rolls are never checked against obituaries so the people maintaining them don't know when someone dies unless you call them up and tell them which is not part of the usual "my dad died" procedures.

There are likely hordes of Americans registered in multiple states, but it's a piss poor indication of where they voted and it's terrible evidence of voter fraud.

Sounds like the foundations of 40ks Administratum!

No, actually, there isn't widespread fraud at all. It's a canard thrown around by the right to justify implementing voter suppression measures, or in this case, placate a man-child egomaniac's inability to process that he lost the popular vote, doesn't have a mandate and has the lowest recorded approval rating at this point in a Presidency, ever.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I wasnt a supporter of Trump during the campaign.
But I think now the media go a bit too far. Trump's EO about immigrants from seven muslim countries is not the end of the world.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

but the USA came through Vietnam and Nixon, and it will survive Trump, because the foundations are strong, very strong...

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A general reply to those who replied to my earlier post about what Fascism is.

I'll try to avoid going OT.

ISIL is a threat, but to compare this to powerful nation states such as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, states that had coherent ideologies and powerful militaries, is risible nonsense in my book.

The post-WW2 Soviet Union was a clear and present danger to the West, as it had 300 Divisions ready to roll across Europe, and a powerful nuclear arsenal to back them up...which could have wiped out humanity a dozen times over.

ISIL, though a regional problem, with the odd inspired terrorist attack here and there, is not even in the same ball park, the same city, as the Soviet Union.

The USA was nearly strangled at birth, could have been snuffed out during the war of 1812, and was almost destroyed by its civil war. If Lee had won at Antietam, and the British had come over on the South's side, then the Union was finished, and we're looking at the CSA. That's how close it was...

The USA has survived many threats and challenges in its 250+ years, but it's still here because of the strength of those institutions, the foundations are strong, and its love of liberty will never die.

Yes, the war on terror was and has been a disaster IMO, but the best comparison I can make is Vietnam.

The War on Terror is Vietnam 2.0, and Trump is approaching Richard Nixon territory,

but the USA came through Vietnam and Nixon, and it will survive Trump, because the foundations are strong, very strong...

That's my take.

Lot's of good points and observations there. I find perspective to be the medicine to get through this Presidency, but then I look at the fact it's only been barely a week of Trump and, well, gak! Can't wait to see the SCOTUS choice..."shudder"!

lonestarr777 wrote:
No Sentinel1, it will not be plain sailing because it is not just Social Justice Warriors who are dissatisfied with Trump. Your dismissal is almost petulant and that statement is insulting. I'm sorry but this is a man who has built his house on lies, backstabbing, and petty revenge, he is not going to turn around and magically be a good leader no matter how much you think we should shut up and accept him.

 d-usa wrote:
Interesting sound clip on the radio this morning, from Yates' confirmation hearing a few years back:

Sen. Sessions: "If the President issues an illegal order, should the AG or Deputy AG follow that order?"
Yates: "No, the AG or Deputy AG should follow the law and act as independent advisor to the POTUS."

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I wasnt a supporter of Trump during the campaign.
But I think now the media go a bit too far. Trump's EO about immigrants from seven muslim countries is not the end of the world.