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 Verviedi wrote:
It would take about a month and just a few thousand pounds to fix this issue. Make GW stores able to order Forgeworld through the instore terminal. Give them free shipping, and count it as a sale for the manager. Done.

Now, I haven't been in a GW store for ages, so forgive me for my naivety. But how is this not already a thing? I had always figured this was something that they could already do, because it seems insanely stupid not to.

I am suggesting the laziest possible way of doing it, because that's what GW would most likely actually do.
In a perfect world, GW would sell Forgeworld in stores, would make their stores larger, offer discounts in stores to actually compete with LGS, and get rid of the one man model that causes unnecessary stress in managers.
And also treat all orders shipped to a store as a sale to the store. That way, people wouldn't get lectured when they ship something to the store without paying in store.

But that will never happen. So I have to be realistic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fafnir wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
It would take about a month and just a few thousand pounds to fix this issue. Make GW stores able to order Forgeworld through the instore terminal. Give them free shipping, and count it as a sale for the manager. Done.

Now, I haven't been in a GW store for ages, so forgive me for my naivety. But how is this not already a thing? I had always figured this was something that they could already do, because it seems insanely stupid not to.

>GW corporate policies
>Insanely stupid

Yes, I did just write the same thing twice. No, it's not already a thing. Forgeworld is blocked on store computers.

Not in the UK it's not??

oddly here, the local GW manager has almost an irrational hatred for FW products, its something myself and a lot of others have questioned him about, he wont even allow it to be painted in store or taken out to show your mates what you are working on.

 Verviedi wrote:
It would take about a month and just a few thousand pounds to fix this issue. Make GW stores able to order Forgeworld through the instore terminal. Give them free shipping, and count it as a sale for the manager. Done.

Can't agree with this enough. However GW corporate has a lack of vision.

I get not stocking FW models, because of the huge supply vs. demand issues. But I don't get why you aren't able to order and ship to store w/free shipping for it.

I think as a whole GW's problem is at they are focused only on sales, not community, so the community gets hamstrung and what you end up with is a situation where people either don't buy at the GW store at all, or buy there (because it has the most stock compared to FLGS) and play elsewhere where they don't spit on the actual community.

Formosa wrote:oddly here, the local GW manager has almost an irrational hatred for FW products, its something myself and a lot of others have questioned him about, he wont even allow it to be painted in store or taken out to show your mates what you are working on.

My guy isn't that bad thankfully, but the staff do get all awkward when you mention Forgeworld, as if you were talking about 3rd party/Recast stuff. Plus the whole tournament issue.

 Verviedi wrote:
It would take about a month and just a few thousand pounds to fix this issue. Make GW stores able to order Forgeworld through the instore terminal. Give them free shipping, and count it as a sale for the manager. Done.

I know it won't do anything, but I sent an email to GW explaining this idea. Nothing will happen, but hey, at least I said something.

Let me take a minute so just sit right there, im gonna tell you how forgeworld came to be.

Ok so this actually goes back a while you see the guys that ran forgeworld actually used to be part of GW as well, thing was, the forge world folks were more about making the cool bitchen models, GW was about making the armies and making the cash.
These two clashed, eventually they left, with some agreements on what they could and could not make and so began the sibling rivalry between the two companies.
They dont hate each other, its more like a friendly rivalry, think legolas and Gimmly from part one and two of lord of the rings.

And ill need to check, but iirc, My GW store said he can even order FW stuff from the store.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Let me take a minute so just sit right there, im gonna tell you how forgeworld came to be.

Ok so this actually goes back a while you see the guys that ran forgeworld actually used to be part of GW as well, thing was, the forge world folks were more about making the cool bitchen models, GW was about making the armies and making the cash.
These two clashed, eventually they left, with some agreements on what they could and could not make and so began the sibling rivalry between the two companies.
They dont hate each other, its more like a friendly rivalry, think legolas and Gimmly from part one and two of lord of the rings.

And ill need to check, but iirc, My GW store said he can even order FW stuff from the store.

It doesn't seem like that to be honest. Forgeworld may be having cheeky fun, but GW seems to be working towards making FW incompatible with every new book

 TheoreticalFish wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Let me take a minute so just sit right there, im gonna tell you how forgeworld came to be.

Ok so this actually goes back a while you see the guys that ran forgeworld actually used to be part of GW as well, thing was, the forge world folks were more about making the cool bitchen models, GW was about making the armies and making the cash.
These two clashed, eventually they left, with some agreements on what they could and could not make and so began the sibling rivalry between the two companies.
They dont hate each other, its more like a friendly rivalry, think legolas and Gimmly from part one and two of lord of the rings.

And ill need to check, but iirc, My GW store said he can even order FW stuff from the store.

It doesn't seem like that to be honest. Forgeworld may be having cheeky fun, but GW seems to be working towards making FW incompatible with every new book

GW has always tried to phase out other companies models with their books, but thing is, GW is not going to kill the golden goose. 30k is selling like crazy, and FW and GW are at an interesting place. GW is making the books but FW is making the novels and its sort of a mutual relations, they are a lot better now then they once were say even just 3 or 4 years ago.

Out of curiosity what example of GW phasing out FW are you talking about? I dont know of anything you cant use in the game.

 Peregrine wrote:
GW "hates" FW because their stores are nothing more than marketing tools for selling space marine starter sets to children.

You surely haven't visited a store in a long while. Most of the local GW stores around here aren't that aimed at children any more.
The prices are way to high for it and most of the people playing, painting and buying stuff there aren't children either. They seem to be more of the students and guys who have their first decent paying job kind of customers. Most GW stores are run by employees who are also gamers. The difference between them and us is that they encouraged to are in that store to sell stuff. They do have some freedom on how to increase sales, and limiting FW stuff is just one of them.

It isn't that the guy or the company hates FW stuff, its just that his personal sales dwindle if the cool guys convince others to play an FW army instead of an army they sell stuff for.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 TheoreticalFish wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Let me take a minute so just sit right there, im gonna tell you how forgeworld came to be.

Ok so this actually goes back a while you see the guys that ran forgeworld actually used to be part of GW as well, thing was, the forge world folks were more about making the cool bitchen models, GW was about making the armies and making the cash.
These two clashed, eventually they left, with some agreements on what they could and could not make and so began the sibling rivalry between the two companies.
They dont hate each other, its more like a friendly rivalry, think legolas and Gimmly from part one and two of lord of the rings.

And ill need to check, but iirc, My GW store said he can even order FW stuff from the store.

It doesn't seem like that to be honest. Forgeworld may be having cheeky fun, but GW seems to be working towards making FW incompatible with every new book

GW has always tried to phase out other companies models with their books, but thing is, GW is not going to kill the golden goose. 30k is selling like crazy, and FW and GW are at an interesting place. GW is making the books but FW is making the novels and its sort of a mutual relations, they are a lot better now then they once were say even just 3 or 4 years ago.

Out of curiosity what example of GW phasing out FW are you talking about? I dont know of anything you cant use in the game.

I assume that it's yet more complaining about the fact that the Decurions and the like do not natively allow for you to swap in FW stuff.

Also the scarcity of FW is part of their branding. It is branded as a premium version of their premium product and priced that way.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Let me take a minute so just sit right there, im gonna tell you how forgeworld came to be.

Ok so this actually goes back a while you see the guys that ran forgeworld actually used to be part of GW as well, thing was, the forge world folks were more about making the cool bitchen models, GW was about making the armies and making the cash.
These two clashed, eventually they left, with some agreements on what they could and could not make and so began the sibling rivalry between the two companies.
They dont hate each other, its more like a friendly rivalry, think legolas and Gimmly from part one and two of lord of the rings.

And ill need to check, but iirc, My GW store said he can even order FW stuff from the store.

There were two companies by the name of Forge World. One was based out of the US and produced scaled up Epic models and was part of Armorcast iirc. The one we know today was formed in the late nineties when Armorcast lost the license.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'd say screw the in store terminals and let people buy from home and have it sent to the store and have that sale count toward's the store's sales, or even just have a "how'd you hear about us?" in your checkout and if the customer selects "local GW retail store" count that toward's the manager's tally.

The in store terminals are stupid, they want me to travel to the store once to buy it then once again to pick it up? I don't fething live at the GW store, it's closed 2 days of the week and 2 other days it closes before I knock off work and as much as I want to support the manager it's just a pain in the arse.

This is exactly right. Exactly right.

I want to support my "local" (term used loosely) store, but they certainly don't make it easy. I should be able to order online and have it go to the store.

Of course they should also have a rewards program, where you get special, unique miniatures if you spend $X per quarter. Imagine if you got a super unique Librarian, or a piece of terrain, or something, that was ONLY available if you spent X at the store. That would be so cool.

But on to the original point.

A lot people say the ForgeWorld stuff is overpowered on here. If GW design team doesn't have control over the stats and balance of ForgeWorld units, I can completely understand excluding those units from their rules and formations. It's hard enough to balance a game like this.

The people calling ForgeWorld stuff overpowered are completely wrong. Most Forgeworld is average or of lower-than-normal power, with some notable exceptions such as the Ta'unar.
Who is responsible for scatterbikes, Gladius, Riptides, and Wraithknights again?

 Marmatag wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'd say screw the in store terminals and let people buy from home and have it sent to the store and have that sale count toward's the store's sales, or even just have a "how'd you hear about us?" in your checkout and if the customer selects "local GW retail store" count that toward's the manager's tally.

The in store terminals are stupid, they want me to travel to the store once to buy it then once again to pick it up? I don't fething live at the GW store, it's closed 2 days of the week and 2 other days it closes before I knock off work and as much as I want to support the manager it's just a pain in the arse.

This is exactly right. Exactly right.

I want to support my "local" (term used loosely) store, but they certainly don't make it easy. I should be able to order online and have it go to the store.

Of course they should also have a rewards program, where you get special, unique miniatures if you spend $X per quarter. Imagine if you got a super unique Librarian, or a piece of terrain, or something, that was ONLY available if you spent X at the store. That would be so cool.

Places I've worked in the past counted a sale sent to a store as a sale in that store and it makes so much sense. The assumption would be that if the store had it in stock, you'd have just gone there and bought it. There's no reason not to implement this, especially considering how inconvenient it is for the customer to do it their way. My closest GW is about 45 minutes away, and I know for a lot of people it's a lot further. Going to the store with the sole purpose of ordering product there and then leaving so you can come back later to pick it up is a ridiculous and totally unfeasible idea. Way too much of a hassle.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'd say screw the in store terminals and let people buy from home and have it sent to the store and have that sale count toward's the store's sales, or even just have a "how'd you hear about us?" in your checkout and if the customer selects "local GW retail store" count that toward's the manager's tally.

The in store terminals are stupid, they want me to travel to the store once to buy it then once again to pick it up? I don't fething live at the GW store, it's closed 2 days of the week and 2 other days it closes before I knock off work and as much as I want to support the manager it's just a pain in the arse.

This is exactly right. Exactly right.

I want to support my "local" (term used loosely) store, but they certainly don't make it easy. I should be able to order online and have it go to the store.

Of course they should also have a rewards program, where you get special, unique miniatures if you spend $X per quarter. Imagine if you got a super unique Librarian, or a piece of terrain, or something, that was ONLY available if you spent X at the store. That would be so cool.

Places I've worked in the past counted a sale sent to a store as a sale in that store and it makes so much sense. The assumption would be that if the store had it in stock, you'd have just gone there and bought it. There's no reason not to implement this, especially considering how inconvenient it is for the customer to do it their way. My closest GW is about 45 minutes away, and I know for a lot of people it's a lot further. Going to the store with the sole purpose of ordering product there and then leaving so you can come back later to pick it up is a ridiculous and totally unfeasible idea. Way too much of a hassle.

Exactly!

My GW store is only 20 miles away, but I live in "Sillicon Valley" so, that means, i'm taking 680->580->880, and if you've ever driven on those roads, you know that on a weeknight, that's probably about 2 hours in the car. I try to go in on the weekend, when the traffic is lighter, but still. Throw me a bone, it's a pain for me to get there JUST to do an online order for something I *know* they don't have.

 TheoreticalFish wrote:
Your local GW tournaments don't allow forgeworld rules. People you play against refuse to play you. And even GW itself doesn't like you and your purchasing choices, as evident with the new Fall of Cadia formations. No spoilers, but you can take an Imperial Knight in a few formations, except GW deliberately name the GW knights to exclude the ones from Forgeworld.

Question is; Why?! Why not include Forgeworld? Just say Imperial Knights. Just say X Unit and Variants. There is already a distinct disadvantage when you buy from Forgeworld, the price, the materials, the shipping, you don't need to add opposition from GW..

It's dependant on store manager to store manager, but it usually seems to come from a combination of a hang up over the "FW is OP" nonsense and lost sales combined with an aggressive KPI they have to meet. Stores going better are probably more likely to allow FW if they find it cool.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'd say screw the in store terminals and let people buy from home and have it sent to the store and have that sale count toward's the store's sales, or even just have a "how'd you hear about us?" in your checkout and if the customer selects "local GW retail store" count that toward's the manager's tally.

The in store terminals are stupid, they want me to travel to the store once to buy it then once again to pick it up? I don't fething live at the GW store, it's closed 2 days of the week and 2 other days it closes before I knock off work and as much as I want to support the manager it's just a pain in the arse.

I hate it too and generally they're also closed for lunch the times I'd pass by to drop in, but I kind of feel bad about not at least giving the guy credit for the sale in exchange for the free shipping.
Honestly you should be able to count it, but I suppose there's probably some exploit they're thinking of or the internet is still scary or they want to give the sale to the online team.

Its kinda annoying to have to take peoples word for it regarding FW units when noone actually has a physical copy of the rules.

Midway through each game i have to search through google images to see if my opponent is playing right.

And no, the Damecheron shouldn't have been able to eat my bike HQ and then a Daemon Prince. But i took the guys word for it.

No, you can't assault out of your Dreadnought Drop pod after landing.

Don't even start with the Taunar.

The sad part is, alot of FW units are actually balanced (better than GW) by having certain risks and rewards. But without proper documentation it just seems like a one sided cheesefest.

Same issue with Codices. If your opponent doesn't have it, you just have to take their word for it. Whenever I've played an opponent that used FW, they had an IA or printouts with rules ready. I provide printouts of my FW rules as well.
Like it or not, all rules are behind a paywall. Except for FW experimental units.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Its kinda annoying to have to take peoples word for it regarding FW units when noone actually has a physical copy of the rules.

Midway through each game i have to search through google images to see if my opponent is playing right.

This is a must for me, whether Forgeworld or Gamesworkshop.

Have your book ready to play, or at least your digital copy on a tablet. No, I don't have all of the codecies memorized. In fact, despite playing primarily space marines since 2008, I still get some stuff wrong from time to time and need to look gak up. I'm going to ask to see that Necron Whos-Its gets that power you're describing and it works just so...

No codex, no game. I've refused a pick up game for this reason.

 Verviedi wrote:
Same issue with Codices. If your opponent doesn't have it, you just have to take their word for it. Whenever I've played an opponent that used FW, they had an IA or printouts with rules ready. I provide printouts of my FW rules as well.
Like it or not, all rules are behind a paywall. Except for FW experimental units.

You and I both know that's not true.

What stores does anyone visit that don't have a Codex handy? Sure, you won't find many shops that just let you use the Codex for playing a game--but if there's an issue and you want to flip through it quick, there's very little resistance to that.

Ah, but what if the codex is shrink wrapped, hmmm?

 kronk wrote:
Ah, but what if the codex is shrink wrapped, hmmm?

Then you're at a poorly run independent shop that doesn't understand the idea of having a "Preview Copy" on the shelf for people to look through?

 TheoreticalFish wrote:
To me it kinda feels like GW is at war with itself. They should be doing a lot more to support each other, instead of creating this divide. Forgeworld is still treated almost like a 3rd party company, and that attitude from GW is causing some players and store owners to treat them as such.

I'm just a little salty because my Brother can't play his army in store tournaments, and I would like to get some Forgeworld Knights to use in the new Fall of Cadia formations. Being limited for no reason feels sucky

This has been the case for many years and many editions. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, particularly as FW isn't even a subsidiary but a department of actual GW. Some of it came from old GW event rules that did not allow FW or special characters and the like. A lot of it comes from stores, individual stores have extremely high pressure on sales and their managers have lots of control over what goes on and many see FW as a threat to their monthly quotas. Internally, there seems to be a strange divide, GW does the rules for some FW models (like Warhound titans and Heirophants) but then goes out of its way to pretend FW doesn't exist in other areas. It's very strange, nothing new, and unlikely to change soon.

I'm just glad attitudes have changed, used to be you couldn't even whisper "forgeworld" without people's heads flying off about "overpowered cheese" because some dude showed up with a crappy self made proxy and used rules he made up but claimed were from FW and poisoned the well forever. That was routine until the end of 5E and really 6E when people just started saying "**** it" when allies became a thing and then formations and superheavies in normal games and whatnot.

You still get some people who adamantly refuse to use or allow FW stuff, but they're thankfully a dying breed.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Same issue with Codices. If your opponent doesn't have it, you just have to take their word for it. Whenever I've played an opponent that used FW, they had an IA or printouts with rules ready. I provide printouts of my FW rules as well.
Like it or not, all rules are behind a paywall. Except for FW experimental units.

You and I both know that's not true.

What stores does anyone visit that don't have a Codex handy? Sure, you won't find many shops that just let you use the Codex for playing a game--but if there's an issue and you want to flip through it quick, there's very little resistance to that.

Not sure which part you're calling untrue, unless some random person I played against two years ago had a unit and didn't supply rules.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Same issue with Codices. If your opponent doesn't have it, you just have to take their word for it. Whenever I've played an opponent that used FW, they had an IA or printouts with rules ready. I provide printouts of my FW rules as well.
Like it or not, all rules are behind a paywall. Except for FW experimental units.

You and I both know that's not true.

What stores does anyone visit that don't have a Codex handy? Sure, you won't find many shops that just let you use the Codex for playing a game--but if there's an issue and you want to flip through it quick, there's very little resistance to that.

Not sure which part you're calling untrue, unless some random person I played against two years ago had a unit and didn't supply rules.

I'm calling the idea of codices being readily unavailable the same way as FW books untrue.

It's not hard to get access to a codex at a shop. It is hard to get access to FW books at one.

Yes, you are correct. I was using technical truth for the purposes of making an argument, not common sense.

 Verviedi wrote:
Yes, you are correct. I was using technical truth for the purposes of making an argument, not common sense.

Unfortunately, that idea completely falls apart because unless a store has not ensured they have a preview copy or stresses that players should actually come prepared to play...these are all basic requirements most stores have.