Why does Games Workshop hate Forgeworld?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**kronk**

Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Ah, but what if the codex is shrink wrapped, hmmm?

Then you're at a poorly run independent shop that doesn't understand the idea of having a "Preview Copy" on the shelf for people to look through?

No, this guy has one of the best run game stores that I've been to.

I've been in there on week days and week ends and it's always packed. Each night is primarily a different group, like card games, historicals, board games, fantasy, 40k, Warma-Hordes, and so on.

Not sure what you're beef on this issue is.

**Verviedi**

Kanluwen wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
Yes, you are correct. I was using technical truth for the purposes of making an argument, not common sense.

Unfortunately, that idea completely falls apart because unless a store has not ensured they have a preview copy or stresses that players should actually come prepared to play...these are all basic requirements most stores have.

Stressing that all players come prepared to play covers bring your FW books, no?

**Kanluwen**

kronk wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Ah, but what if the codex is shrink wrapped, hmmm?

Then you're at a poorly run independent shop that doesn't understand the idea of having a "Preview Copy" on the shelf for people to look through?

No, this guy has one of the best run game stores that I've been to.

I've been in there on week days and week ends and it's always packed. Each night is primarily a different group, like card games, historicals, board games, fantasy, 40k, Warma-Hordes, and so on.

Not sure what you're beef on this issue is.

No beef. I just find it ridiculous that a shop doesn't write off a single copy of a book to create a Preview Copy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Verviedi wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
Yes, you are correct. I was using technical truth for the purposes of making an argument, not common sense.

Unfortunately, that idea completely falls apart because unless a store has not ensured they have a preview copy or stresses that players should actually come prepared to play...these are all basic requirements most stores have.

Stressing that all players come prepared to play covers bring your FW books, no?

Yes. Bring the book. Don't bring printouts or photos or PDFs.

Bring the flipping book.

**TheoreticalFish**

Backspacehacker wrote:

Out of curiosity what example of GW phasing out FW are you talking about? I dont know of anything you cant use in the game.

Well, basically everything in 7th edition is Formations, and yet quite a few FW models can't use formations simply because none exist. In the new Cadia formations, they have shut out the loophole that the FW Imperial Knights used by naming the certain Knights able to be used.

Also, not allowing named FW captains to replace the generic captain in a Battle Demi-Company.

**cvtuttle**

TheoreticalFish wrote:
Imagine the scenario; You have finally cobbled together your savings, loose change, ill-gotten gains, and bought an Imperial Knight CERASTUS KNIGHT-ATRAPOS & HEAD UPGRADE from Forgeworld. Plump total of £187. You wait forever, finally receive your package in the mail. Spend weeks meticulously building it and painting to a high standard. Then you take it to your local GW store to play it.

Nope.
Your local GW tournaments don't allow forgeworld rules. People you play against refuse to play you. And even GW itself doesn't like you and your purchasing choices, as evident with the new Fall of Cadia formations. No spoilers, but you can take an Imperial Knight in a few formations, except GW deliberately name the GW knights to exclude the ones from Forgeworld.

Question is; Why?! Why not include Forgeworld? Just say Imperial Knights. Just say X Unit and Variants. There is already a distinct disadvantage when you buy from Forgeworld, the price, the materials, the shipping, you don't need to add opposition from GW.

Edit: Also, another point. My brother plays Minotaurs, and bought the Minotaur Captain and Chaplain, two characters who are rather essential to a Minotaurs army. Because GW is annoying, he can't use any of the formations, because the formations explicitely say either a Captain or *list of captains*, which doesn't include Forgeworld.

This post feels very 2012

**VictorVonTzeentch**

TheoreticalFish wrote:

Also, not allowing named FW captains to replace the generic captain in a Battle Demi-Company.

Just wait for the inevitable redone version of The Badab War books.

**Rippy**

Where GW's SM formations list the named captain's, that don't have Asterion Moloc, just let him use him anyway. That is what Forgeworld suggest you do.

**TheoreticalFish**

Rippy wrote:
Where GW's SM formations list the named captain's, that don't have Asterion Moloc, just let him use him anyway. That is what Forgeworld suggest you do.

Oh, I do. Definitely. Even thought it usually means I get railed.

But it's relying on the good will of your opponent to play your army. It's basically like a flip of a coin as to whether you play or not that day.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Ah, but what if the codex is shrink wrapped, hmmm?

Then you're at a poorly run independent shop that doesn't understand the idea of having a "Preview Copy" on the shelf for people to look through?

No, this guy has one of the best run game stores that I've been to.

I've been in there on week days and week ends and it's always packed. Each night is primarily a different group, like card games, historicals, board games, fantasy, 40k, Warma-Hordes, and so on.

Not sure what you're beef on this issue is.

No beef. I just find it ridiculous that a shop doesn't write off a single copy of a book to create a Preview Copy.

Most FLGS's I've been to don't have preview copies. The GW stores do, not so much the independents. Don't really blame them, even at wholesale price GW must have something in the realm of $500-1000 in codices. I'm not even sure if the local FLGS keeps a full compliment of codices, I think they just order a bunch each time a new one comes out and don't replace them if/when they sell out (other than the big seller armies like Spehss Mareenz).

**kronk**

Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Ah, but what if the codex is shrink wrapped, hmmm?

Then you're at a poorly run independent shop that doesn't understand the idea of having a "Preview Copy" on the shelf for people to look through?

No, this guy has one of the best run game stores that I've been to.

I've been in there on week days and week ends and it's always packed. Each night is primarily a different group, like card games, historicals, board games, fantasy, 40k, Warma-Hordes, and so on.

Not sure what you're beef on this issue is.

No beef. I just find it ridiculous that a shop doesn't write off a single copy of a book to create a Preview Copy.

He has at least one of every codex and supplement on hand, and gets handfuls of the new gak that he knows his regulars buy. I guess he has so much turnover he doesn't have to? The regulars all have their own gak and support him well.

**Vector Strike**

Different management teams, I guess. Black Library has a different one too, I believe.

In fact, you have 3 companies that are basically the same, but create gaps between themselves that are hindering the business instead of working together to maximize profit.

Mr. Rountree should call a meeting with GW, FW and BL heads and set with them a common strategy to advance the entire company's agenda, instead of each group doing as they see fit.

So no, it's not that GW hates FW... GW simply doesn't acknowledge FW in its plans. And vice-versa.

**Rolsheen**

kronk wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
Ah, but what if the codex is shrink wrapped, hmmm?

Then you're at a poorly run independent shop that doesn't understand the idea of having a "Preview Copy" on the shelf for people to look through?

No, this guy has one of the best run game stores that I've been to.

I've been in there on week days and week ends and it's always packed. Each night is primarily a different group, like card games, historicals, board games, fantasy, 40k, Warma-Hordes, and so on.

Not sure what you're beef on this issue is.

No beef. I just find it ridiculous that a shop doesn't write off a single copy of a book to create a Preview Copy.

He has at least one of every codex and supplement on hand, and gets handfuls of the new gak that he knows his regulars buy. I guess he has so much turnover he doesn't have to? The regulars all have their own gak and support him well.

If a GW shop "damages" a copy of the codex so they can have an open copy, the manager can be fired. There phasing out preview copies to stop people using the open copy to play games and not buying there own copy

**AllSeeingSkink**

Vector Strike wrote:
Different management teams, I guess. Black Library has a different one too, I believe.

In fact, you have 3 companies that are basically the same, but create gaps between themselves that are hindering the business instead of working together to maximize profit.

Mr. Rountree should call a meeting with GW, FW and BL heads and set with them a common strategy to advance the entire company's agenda, instead of each group doing as they see fit.

So no, it's not that GW hates FW... GW simply doesn't acknowledge FW in its plans. And vice-versa.

Nah, it's not a problem with the heads of the different divisions not communicating with each other, it's a problem with GW HQ not communicating to store managers that sales are important regardless of which channel they came through and not rewarding them for sales that don't come wholly and solely from within the store.

**wuestenfux**

They have different business models and each of which tries to succeed.

**Dysartes**

commander dante wrote:
Luckily for me, both of my local GWs allow FW, Including full HH games, but it does suck when you bring down a REALLY cool model which is your pride and joy only to be told by your opponent "Nope cant Field it because FW is OP" while he fields a Tau-Cron Mega Decurion Army that wipes you in two turns

You tell Mr Tau player (in this example) to shove it, and play the FW units you want anyway - outside of Experimental stuff (which is fair enough, to my mind), last I checked they'd removed the verbiage from the books that said that units were by opponent's permission only.

**Klerych**

In all honesty everyone else gave you all the wise advices that can be given in this situation.

All I can add is something somewhat obvious to me after sitting for so long in the community - you kinda should've thought about that before you spent zillions of money on the model.

I know, I know, it sounds harsh and it should never be expected, but stores' and tournaments' dislike for Forge World's products is well-known in the world of 40k, so it is only natural to think whether you will be able to field the expensive models where you're going to play in the first place.

**Davor**

Dysartes wrote:
commander dante wrote:
Luckily for me, both of my local GWs allow FW, Including full HH games, but it does suck when you bring down a REALLY cool model which is your pride and joy only to be told by your opponent "Nope cant Field it because FW is OP" while he fields a Tau-Cron Mega Decurion Army that wipes you in two turns

You tell Mr Tau player (in this example) to shove it, and play the FW units you want anyway - outside of Experimental stuff (which is fair enough, to my mind), last I checked they'd removed the verbiage from the books that said that units were by opponent's permission only.

Doesn't still mean it's legal. After all I can only see in the 40K rule book Citadel Miniatures and never once mentioning Forge World miniatures in the rules on how something moves, shoots or what not.

**Montambro**

My GW store in South Carolina loves FW. They have many models displayed. Especially a lot of HH. They want people to get interested in HH. By showing off the exclusive FW cool units it brings more business into the store (New guys buying GW HH plastic models and the box sets).

Plus they look badass. I don't know why your store has not been accommodating with FW.

Also if the local players don't play you, then screw that. Maybe they just don't have the cash to make a balanced army to play you.

If you bring a titan, or large super heavies and they cant even field a few fliers or landraiders then I get it.

Also maybe just transfer to HH. Where 99% is FW and no one complains! =)

**CplPunishment**

I used to frequent a GW "battle bunker", as they called it, which was essentially the regional headquarters where YOU COULD ORDER FORGEWORLD PRODUCTS. Not only that, but certain FW products were kept in stock! This needs to become the norm across all stores IMHO. Even if it would be too costly for them to offer free shipping to the store, they could at least discount the shipping and give credit to the store manager for the sale.

As an aside, is anyone else peeved that they teased IG with FW exclusive artillery listed in the 5th ed codex, only to take every mobile artillery piece but the common basilisk in 6th? Losers!

**Jancoran**

We regularly disallow Forge World. the ITC tournaments I attend allow them but the tournaments locally, we don't.

It's best to know your area and what the vibe is on that before making a major purchase. My two cents.

**Davor**

Jancoran wrote:

It's best to know your area and what the vibe is on that before making a major purchase. My two cents.

Only if you need to win with plastic/resin toy soldiers. After all what is stopping you with buying it because you love the mini?

**Jancoran**

Davor wrote:
Jancoran wrote:

It's best to know your area and what the vibe is on that before making a major purchase. My two cents.

Only if you need to win with plastic/resin toy soldiers. After all what is stopping you with buying it because you love the mini?

Agreed. If you are a collected then by all means collect. However the original poster clearly was not distresed because someone wasn't allowing him to display his Knight. He wanted to play it. Ergo my comment.

**Davor**

Jancoran wrote:
Davor wrote:
Jancoran wrote:

It's best to know your area and what the vibe is on that before making a major purchase. My two cents.

Only if you need to win with plastic/resin toy soldiers. After all what is stopping you with buying it because you love the mini?

Agreed. If you are a collected then by all means collect. However the original poster clearly was not distresed because someone wasn't allowing him to display his Knight. He wanted to play it. Ergo my comment.

Ah, gotcha. Missed it.