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Formation.





Question 1.

Do transports for these troops units become recyclable?

Question 2.

How does it work?

Assumption 1.

Yes, because transports adopt the battlefield role of the unit they are bought for.

Assumption 2.

That the transport is a unit with the troop role, so if it blows up, it comes back by itself. If it's a drop pod, Ongoing reserves follows normal reserves. Which means walking on. If the vehicle gets immobilized, it stops on your edge?


This would mean you can recycle land raiders from your back edge, but honestly I'd rather have 6 recycling immolators.

I'll be damned. I'd say yes. I can see this being really handy with drop pods, admittedly a 5 or a 6 must be rolled, but a second drop pod with another squad pouring out of it would be quite handy.

As for the transport themselves, I would say no, they are not troops but are dedicated transports of them. However, once the actual troop slot itself is destroyed the wording says, all options and upgrades given are reinstated in ongoing reserves. Implying yes, they'll get their transport back again.

This is further implied because there are other formations like this, but they explicitly state the repasts do not get their transports. This one does not. I'd allow it in my games.

I would also assume if its a drop pod being reused with its troop choice, it still follows the drop pod rules. So it wouldn't be placed on the table edge, it would deep strike.

 Tsol wrote:
I'll be damned. I'd say yes. I can see this being really handy with drop pods, admittedly a 5 or a 6 must be rolled, but a second drop pod with another squad pouring out of it would be quite handy.

As for the transport themselves, I would say no, they are not troops but are dedicated transports of them. However, once the actual troop slot itself is destroyed the wording says, all options and upgrades given are reinstated in ongoing reserves. Implying yes, they'll get their transport back again.

This is further implied because there are other formations like this, but they explicitly state the repasts do not get their transports. This one does not. I'd allow it in my games.

I would also assume if its a drop pod being reused with its troop choice, it still follows the drop pod rules. So it wouldn't be placed on the table edge, it would deep strike.

Dedicated transports take on the faction and battlefield role of the unit that takes them. They become objective secured in a CAD so they would definitely get flock to the front lines.

I don't think taking a dedicated transport is an upgrade to the unit, but just an opportunity to take a slotless vehicle. Counting it as an upgrade has some crazy interactions with combat squads. Each combat squad is its own unit and has the flock to the frontlines rule. Would you give each of them the dedicated transport when it came back? Half a transport? Only one half gets the transport? That sounds like a mess.

Ongoing reserves are strange. They say they work just like regular reserves but you are guaranteed to come in. Then deepstrike says that you have to declare at the beginning of the game for a unit to come in by deep strike, and must have the deep strike rule. So if you are putting a brand new unit into ongoing reserve you never had the opportunity at the start of the game to declare that it is in deep strike reserve. Now it gets even weirder when you add drop pods that do not actually have deep strike they just have a rule that tells you to put them in deep strike reserve.

However there is some precedent with the newest FAQ of just saying that you can deepstrike stuff without the rule, or that did not declare it at the beginning of the game. Veil of darkness can take a unit that originally declared to be in regular reserves and them put them back into ongoing reserves and deep strike them so long as they have the deep strike rule. If a unit mishaps and goes into reserves from gate of infinity it gets to deep strike in not walk on next turn even though it may not have deep strike.

This all points in the direction that GW intends to let you deep strike your stuff from ongoing reserve, and I feel confident that if they ever do an FAQ for this that they will let you just deepstrike your empty drop pods.

 Tsol wrote:
I'll be damned. I'd say yes. I can see this being really handy with drop pods, admittedly a 5 or a 6 must be rolled, but a second drop pod with another squad pouring out of it would be quite handy.

As for the transport themselves, I would say no, they are not troops but are dedicated transports of them. However, once the actual troop slot itself is destroyed the wording says, all options and upgrades given are reinstated in ongoing reserves. Implying yes, they'll get their transport back again.

This is further implied because there are other formations like this, but they explicitly state the repasts do not get their transports. This one does not. I'd allow it in my games.

I would also assume if its a drop pod being reused with its troop choice, it still follows the drop pod rules. So it wouldn't be placed on the table edge, it would deep strike.

I think the big thing is that the transport are a unit and the marines, for example, are a unit. They both die and roll for a 5+ on their own independently of another.

Could there be a reason why Pods, Razorbacks, Rhinos and Storms are listed under "fast attack" to limit this ? Making only the Tactical Marines and Scouts recycleable ?

 zedsdead wrote:
Could there be a reason why Pods, Razorbacks, Rhinos and Storms are listed under "fast attack" to limit this ? Making only the Tactical Marines and Scouts recycleable ?

That's just a modern codex convention, and it wouldn't matter anyway as becoming a DT for a troops unit explicitly make them troops.

Last bit in the definition of "identical unit" in Flock to the front is upgrades. DTs are "upgrades" for the unit.

This is where it all gets murky and screwy. DTs are there own units, and Flock to the front only allows destroyed units to return with their upgrades. While the DT is an upgrade for the datasheet, it might not be for the unit that was destroyed.

A Razorback for a Tac squad that itself gets destroyed would certainly be able to recycle. If you get a second Razorback(assuming the first was not destroyed) for a destroyed Tac Squad that purchased one is less certain.

 coblen wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
I'll be damned. I'd say yes. I can see this being really handy with drop pods, admittedly a 5 or a 6 must be rolled, but a second drop pod with another squad pouring out of it would be quite handy.

As for the transport themselves, I would say no, they are not troops but are dedicated transports of them. However, once the actual troop slot itself is destroyed the wording says, all options and upgrades given are reinstated in ongoing reserves. Implying yes, they'll get their transport back again.

This is further implied because there are other formations like this, but they explicitly state the repasts do not get their transports. This one does not. I'd allow it in my games.

I would also assume if its a drop pod being reused with its troop choice, it still follows the drop pod rules. So it wouldn't be placed on the table edge, it would deep strike.

Dedicated transports take on the faction and battlefield role of the unit that takes them. They become objective secured in a CAD so they would definitely get flock to the front lines.

I don't think taking a dedicated transport is an upgrade to the unit, but just an opportunity to take a slotless vehicle. Counting it as an upgrade has some crazy interactions with combat squads. Each combat squad is its own unit and has the flock to the frontlines rule. Would you give each of them the dedicated transport when it came back? Half a transport? Only one half gets the transport? That sounds like a mess.

Ongoing reserves are strange. They say they work just like regular reserves but you are guaranteed to come in. Then deepstrike says that you have to declare at the beginning of the game for a unit to come in by deep strike, and must have the deep strike rule. So if you are putting a brand new unit into ongoing reserve you never had the opportunity at the start of the game to declare that it is in deep strike reserve. Now it gets even weirder when you add drop pods that do not actually have deep strike they just have a rule that tells you to put them in deep strike reserve.

However there is some precedent with the newest FAQ of just saying that you can deepstrike stuff without the rule, or that did not declare it at the beginning of the game. Veil of darkness can take a unit that originally declared to be in regular reserves and them put them back into ongoing reserves and deep strike them so long as they have the deep strike rule. If a unit mishaps and goes into reserves from gate of infinity it gets to deep strike in not walk on next turn even though it may not have deep strike.

This all points in the direction that GW intends to let you deep strike your stuff from ongoing reserve, and I feel confident that if they ever do an FAQ for this that they will let you just deepstrike your empty drop pods.

You bring up some interesting points. I didn't think about the fact that the drop pod should be considered an independent unit, although it is an option from the tactical marines, it may not necessarily be considered an upgrade for intents of the Flock rule. You've planted some doubt in me, as although it does not say you do not gain back the transports (as other formations do) I can see why my assumption can easily be challenged. As the detachments says "original number of models, weapons and upgrades", technically the dedicated transport is an option, though might be considered a model. Thats being super nitpicky though and wouldn't hold up to scrutiny. I'll ask my GW guy to hear his input as well.

As for the combat squad example, that's just silly, the codex states treat them as two separate units for all practical purposes, but they are still one unit. You would only get flock once the whole unit is destroyed, and presumably (if transports are kept) the drop pods or rhinos or chimeras are kept, would be needed to as well. Such as the combat squads can recombine to reenter a rhino or whatnot, but then must split again once they get out and so forth. No need for such silly and over the top red herrings. Though I am unsure what you're trying to say about deepstrike or its relevance to the formation rule query. Wheater or not the formation does keep the drop pods, it is self-explanatory how the unit and or transport would come back in. Or did I misinterpret what you're saying?