Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 -Loki- wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Why is this an issue anyway? fits on what the character does, taunt the enemy.

If they used it in English there would have been a shitstorm. They're just banking on people not typing the word into google.

It's not that it doesn't fit the character, but for a boardgame that's going to be played by a younger crowd?

Not play the "But the Children!" card. We all know nobody care about them, if they are gonna complaint about that word. And to be honest, that word isn't even Spain's spanish, is a term from Argentina, and a obscure one, I had to look it up in google actually to know whats that about.
So for 99% of the people they won't know the actual meaning of the insult.


In Urban Dictionary is labeled as a colombian word that has nothing to do with Homosexual men:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pirobo

So I think it doesn't even has a "homogeinized" meaning. As many things in spanish. "Coger" means "To grav" in Spain. It means "to have sex" in most of South America.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Why is this an issue anyway? fits on what the character does, taunt the enemy.

It's supposed to be a game with more mass appeal, and they're dropping hidden slurs in there that people are going to be unwittingly speaking. And likely speaking them in public places. It's just a really poorly thought out decision on their part.

Was the word piropo -- catcall, unwanted "compliment"-- or pirobo? they mean different things. Seems odd that Spaniards would use Colombian slang. Especially considering that they have their own word, ma****n. Or did 15-20 years ago. My knowledge of Iberian slurs and profanity is rather dated. Ah, but the classics are timeless, me entendeis, g***p****s? (Jokingly said.)

Where was this term heard anyway?
Edit:N/M I see it on the card. Te voy a cascar= I'm gonna smack you. Hey Pirobo= Hey Donkey-cave. tángana =Smack-down/brawl. (to translate the card text. Also, amusing Spanglish. (the word Hey.)

Yeah, many edits. But slang words have many uses and connotations.. Maybe not jump to conclusions based on the first result a search engine provides. That said, not the best word to use, because people do jump to conclusions...

Let me get this straight. People are having a problem with the fact that an offensive over the top character called Senor Massacre uses offensive over the top slang in a language that they don't speak from a country the game isn't sold in, with their entire understanding of it is coming from Urban Dictionary? I feel like there are at least three or four things in that sentence that would make a reasonable person stop and reexamine the need they feel to be offended.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Let me get this straight. People are having a problem with the fact that an offensive over the top character called Senor Massacre uses offensive over the top slang in a language that they don't speak from a country the game isn't sold in, with their entire understanding of it is coming from Urban Dictionary? I feel like there are at least three or four things in that sentence that would make a reasonable person stop and reexamine the need they feel to be offended.

Does Dakka have a sticky post function, because I think we have a contender.

I really do not think it is an issue.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I really do not think it is an issue.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

Well, you probably should not be, even in a mocking way, because I am openly against such "politically correct" issues in general, not only for CB related products.

What you call politically correct, others call "not being an donkey-cave". Anyway, this is getting off topic.

 -Loki- wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I really do not think it is an issue.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

Yeah I was to.

If you don't see it as an issue that says more about you than you probably want to admit

It's not just the word/slur it's the context that a good taunt is referring to someone as gay which let's be honest is not much of a taunt unless your a child or apparently a CB employee.

Ultimately context is every thing for example the words parasite, tax dodgers, 3rd world are in the most harmless words but if you use them to describe a EU country that has been having financial issues then they become offensive.

SeanDrake wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

If you don't see it as an issue that says more about you than you probably want to admit

Veiled insults are neither big nor clever. Let's keep them out, eh?

It means that, apparently, in one variation of the word in one country that speaks Spanish, definitely not Spain, google translate does not register it and for good or evil the top translations in my google search says it means paragraphing obviously "hey black guy".

Ultimately whatever swear word is been used it will offend someone, somewhere, somehow and it will be the ultimate evil ever committed in the offended persons mind, in the non sterilised real world this is really a non issue.

It may be a Mediterranean thing but I really cannot see anything wrong or shocking with an insult been used, probably a common one so it can be recognisable to the wider audience.

And since It has been referenced, I am not sure for whom it speaks the most for the one that is not offended and does not consider it an issue or for the one who chooses to be offended for the behalf of somebody else.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Let me get this straight. People are having a problem with the fact that an offensive over the top character called Senor Massacre uses offensive over the top slang in a language that they don't speak from a country the game isn't sold in, with their entire understanding of it is coming from Urban Dictionary? I feel like there are at least three or four things in that sentence that would make a reasonable person stop and reexamine the need they feel to be offended.

People are having a problem with the fact that a company with a love of talking about how much they understand/study history and pop culture trying to sneak in things like this(see above regarding Coolies and how the USARF Desperado units had Confederate flags painted on their bikes for some stupid reason) and relying on people like PsychoticStorm(who, by the way, is a moderator on the official forums and has come down on me for dropping f-bombs in the same thread that other people are swearing their heads off) to shield them from the backlash by complaining about "political correctness".

This is a rule in a game. It didn't need to be written the way it was, and CB knows better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 .Mikes. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

If you don't see it as an issue that says more about you than you probably want to admit

Veiled insults are neither big nor clever. Let's keep them out, eh?

I'm sorry that Sean isn't trying to be politically correct and spare your feelings from veiled insults?

It's an issue, maybe not a giant issue, but still an issue.

And to be frank, unless you're an idiot or trying too hard to be an edgy game designer, you run a quick internet search on all terms you use to make sure they're not something horrible. Look how quickly and easily this was discovered.

Not to mention, it's the far future, you can literally come up with any name and random future slang and not make it an issue.

I think we will have to agree and disagree on the subject.

@Kanluwen, I am assuming you understand the difference between directly insulting an actual person or entity (for example CB in their own forum) and a vague swearword directed at nobody.

And since you mentioned Coolies you might remember that in Spain (or most non English Europe) it never had the gravity US people gave it, might be the same with the confederate warflag, most of us not living in the US never understood what was the fuss all about.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I think we will have to agree and disagree on the subject.

@Kanluwen, I am assuming you understand the difference between directly insulting an actual person or entity (for example CB in their own forum) and a vague swearword directed at nobody.

The rule is literally called "Hey pirobo". You might pretend that people are just going to be saying "And now I play 'Hey pirobo'!" but you forget that as soon as some identify it as an insult, it will be used to try to mess with people.

And since you mentioned Coolies you might remember that in Spain (or most non English Europe) it never had the gravity US people gave it, might be the same with the confederate warflag, most of us not living in the US never understood what was the fuss all about.

That's a pile of bunk with regards to the Confederate flag. Bostria and the like argued that it was a "Southern Pride" thing, and if you want to pretend for even a second that they didn't know the history behind it?
Coolies, as well, is a term they specifically chose for a PanOceanian unit. It's a term with negative connotations in regions that PanOceania is said to include--such as South Africa and India.

But hey, it's not like Google exists right?

The discussion can certainly continue - but it has to continue within the bounds of the rules of this site.

Especially RULE #1.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The rule is literally called "Hey pirobo". You might pretend that people are just going to be saying "And now I play 'Hey pirobo'!" but you forget that as soon as some identify it as an insult, it will be used to try to mess with people.

People don't think swear words in other languages are nearly as vulgar or offensive. it's no worse than South Park using "chinpokomon" or Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure having Napoleon scream "merde merde merde" while bowling. In fact, I probably won't even get in trouble for bypassing the word censor for saying merde instead of gak. That's because foreign words don't mean the same things to other cultures. If they did, 4Kids wouldn't keep changing all the takoyaki in anime into donuts.

It's okay. It really is. We don't need to sanitize works of fiction. Senor Massacre is the jerk, intentionally so, not Corvus Belli for putting the words in his mouth. It's like if I were to write a book about a serial killer - would you assume that was my tacit approval of murder? It's worth making a distinction between reality and fantasy.

That's a pile of bunk with regards to the Confederate flag. Bostria and the like argued that it was a "Southern Pride" thing, and if you want to pretend for even a second that they didn't know the history behind it?

Have you never seen the Dukes of Hazzard? As someone from the deep south who sees the Confederate flag almost every day, people absolutely do use it to mean "Southern Pride". It's really only been in the past 10 years that people have become really sensitive toward it and tried to redefine how they think people should view it. Maybe Bostria just didn't get the memo?

But if you want to get into a discussion about moral absolutism and the way the current generation feels a compulsive need to turn every minor disagreement into a self-righteous battle of good versus evil, that may be better suited in a different thread. Maybe we can fit it into the next boob armor thread?

I bet that you thought that you accidently logged into the RPG.net forum, eh Alpharius?

Squabbling here does nothing. Send a PM or email to someone at Corvus Belli about it, someone. Post the reply.

With this expansion announcement, has there been any word that Aristeia! can be for 3 or more players as well?

Druze Preview? Where's my Druze Preview. Okay, I'll take a Szalamandra preview. C'mon CB...

Ah, just to correct the above about the Confederate battle flag. It was "problematic" for a fair number of people well before the current uproar. I can recall friends in college discussing it. This would be 30 years ago.

 Red Harvest wrote:
I bet that you thought that you accidently logged into the RPG.net forum, eh Alpharius?

Squabbling here does nothing. Send a PM or email to someone at Corvus Belli about it, someone. Post the reply.

You're...not wrong!

That *is* a good idea!

It is still quite the baffling choice by CB though - I mean, they had to know that everyone is going to look up what Mr. Not-Deadpool is saying, right?

Couldn't they have gone with "Hey Idiot!" instead?

Given the context of the rule, its pretty hard to believe they didn't know exactly what it meant when they printed it. Likely more an issue of insensitivity than something truly malicious, but still not cool.

On a different complaint about that, that Sr. Massacre sculpt is really not my thing. I basically play Corregidor for the guy and that sculpt is a pretty solid, meh from me. Might be better witha bit of rotation though.

It is a board game piece. Argh. Please stop expecting metal miniature quality from board game pieces, folks.

"Hey Idiota!" Not much of a taunt really. They could have gone with "Hey, Tonto!" ( Fool) but I'm sure that might have inflamed a certain sort too. Hey... Necio, Bobo, Bufon... No shortage of insults in Spanish. ¡Oye, Pendejo! would have done nicely.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The rule is literally called "Hey pirobo". You might pretend that people are just going to be saying "And now I play 'Hey pirobo'!" but you forget that as soon as some identify it as an insult, it will be used to try to mess with people.

People don't think swear words in other languages are nearly as vulgar or offensive. it's no worse than South Park using "chinpokomon" or Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure having Napoleon scream "merde merde merde" while bowling. In fact, I probably won't even get in trouble for bypassing the word censor for saying merde instead of gak. That's because foreign words don't mean the same things to other cultures. If they did, 4Kids wouldn't keep changing all the takoyaki in anime into donuts.

It's okay. It really is. We don't need to sanitize works of fiction. Senor Massacre is the jerk, intentionally so, not Corvus Belli for putting the words in his mouth. It's like if I were to write a book about a serial killer - would you assume that was my tacit approval of murder? It's worth making a distinction between reality and fantasy.

And there's the rub. You writing a book about a serial killer isn't the same thing as you having a history of being suspected of being a serial killer or harassing the victims of a serial killer.

Corvus Belli has, repeatedly at this point, shown that they either have a sensitivity or an empathy problem. See: Coolies and their general portrayal of women in model format/fluff.

That's a pile of bunk with regards to the Confederate flag. Bostria and the like argued that it was a "Southern Pride" thing, and if you want to pretend for even a second that they didn't know the history behind it?

Have you never seen the Dukes of Hazzard? As someone from the deep south who sees the Confederate flag almost every day, people absolutely do use it to mean "Southern Pride". It's really only been in the past 10 years that people have become really sensitive toward it and tried to redefine how they think people should view it. Maybe Bostria just didn't get the memo?

I've lived in the south for all of my life. I'm well aware of how people love to argue about the Confederate flag being "Southern Pride" while in the same breath talking about how Latino immigrants need to speak English only or Muslim immigrants need to stop wearing hijabs or Sikhs need to lose their turbans or how my generation shouldn't be handed participation trophies for doing nothing while complaining about the removal of Confederate monuments.

I'm also well aware of the fact that USAriadna is supposed to be predominantly Latin-American and African-American with the security contingent said to be primarily made up of these two ethnic groups, with the science contingent being predominantly Asian-Americans and Caucasians...and how Desperadoes have been called out as being non-military units that make their money scalping Antipodes and live in the southern part of USAriadna.

But if you want to get into a discussion about moral absolutism and the way the current generation feels a compulsive need to turn every minor disagreement into a self-righteous battle of good versus evil, that may be better suited in a different thread. Maybe we can fit it into the next boob armor thread?

Remind me again which generation it is that's been complaining about the removal of Confederate monuments, citing "Southern Pride" while complaining about the "current generation" getting participation medals?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Harvest wrote:
I bet that you thought that you accidently logged into the RPG.net forum, eh Alpharius?

Squabbling here does nothing. Send a PM or email to someone at Corvus Belli about it, someone. Post the reply.

I can tell you right now that any kind of reply/post from CB would try to play up the fact that they don't primarily speak English. That's what I was told with regards to the coolies thing back when it dropped...which is kind of silly because it's not really an "English or not English" thing. It's a cultural thing.

With this expansion announcement, has there been any word that Aristeia! can be for 3 or more players as well?

Druze Preview? Where's my Druze Preview. Okay, I'll take a Szalamandra preview. C'mon CB...

Expect to see the previews start around the middle of the month. Preorders should be towards the end of the month assuming things go okay.

Ah, just to correct the above about the Confederate battle flag. It was "problematic" for a fair number of people well before the current uproar. I can recall friends in college discussing it. This would be 30 years ago.

Yeah, it took a certain movement reasserting itself for there to be a more active drive with regards to "sensitivity" about the Confederate flag and monuments.

 Red Harvest wrote:
It is a board game piece. Argh. Please stop expecting metal miniature quality from board game pieces, folks.

"Hey Idiota!" Not much of a taunt really. They could have gone with "Hey, Tonto!" ( Fool) but I'm sure that might have inflamed a certain sort too. Hey... Necio, Bobo, Bufon... No shortage of insults in Spanish. ¡Oye, Pendejo! would have done nicely.

Probably "Conchatumare" could have been even better

There were English swearwords in Tag line, so it's not like it's new.
It works with the flavour CB was going for, if that's a good flavour to be going for is a different matter.

 Kanluwen wrote:
how the USARF Desperado units had Confederate flags painted on their bikes

Wait... WHAT? That shouldn't be acceptable.

I dislike profanity in all forms. As it was stated it's not humorous (unless you're on a rather primitive level) or creative.

I think the thing that personally bothers me the most is what I see as an improper separation of fluff and crunch. I don't care if the character says it as part of the background, my problem is that this is the actual name of the ability. It's something players are going to be saying. Out loud. Repeatedly. In public places. Among strangers. And CB is making them (probably unwittingly) speak a major-league profanity.

 DarkBlack wrote:
There were English swearwords in Tag line, so it's not like it's new.
It works with the flavour CB was going for, if that's a good flavour to be going for is a different matter.

Swearing is different to homophobic slurs.

 Kanluwen wrote:
And there's the rub. You writing a book about a serial killer isn't the same thing as you having a history of being suspected of being a serial killer or harassing the victims of a serial killer.

Corvus Belli has, repeatedly at this point, shown that they either have a sensitivity or an empathy problem. See: Coolies and their general portrayal of women in model format/fluff.

So, rather than simply being a work of fiction that was created to invoke a particular tone in line with a specific character they created within a specific science fiction universe they created, this is indicative of a general trend by Corvus Belli of their lack of sensitivity seeping unintentionally into their fictional work? Aren't you just assuming the worst about CB and inventing intent because it fits your particular biases and beliefs?

I've lived in the south for all of my life. I'm well aware of how people love to argue about the Confederate flag being "Southern Pride" while in the same breath talking about how Latino immigrants need to speak English only or Muslim immigrants need to stop wearing hijabs or Sikhs need to lose their turbans or how my generation shouldn't be handed participation trophies for doing nothing while complaining about the removal of Confederate monuments.

There's just no way to dress up what you just wrote as anything but unfounded bias seething with arrogance and contempt. Your unironic adherence to harmful stereotypes is abhorrent, abusive, and dangerous, in every way that racism is. Bigotry doesn't just involve the color of your skin. Not everybody who sees the rebel flag as a symbol of southern pride is a raging racist, and the fact that you have no problem conflating the two together is probably why people think you don't deserve a trophy for your participation.

But this thread isn't about the Confederate flag or participation medals. At the end of the day, getting offended is a choice. I choose to give Corvus Belli the benefit of the doubt. For all the good works they've created that I've enjoyed greatly, they've earned at least that much. I'm not sure what good could come from believing otherwise. Getting upset at the small stuff just ends up making your world that much smaller, and that much meaner, and if you don't want to end up small and mean yourself, you've got to let go of the immaterial slights.

Yeah, it took a certain movement reasserting itself for there to be a more active drive with regards to "sensitivity" about the Confederate flag and monuments.

That's a bunch of bs. People today act like there are white supremacists around every corner. They aren't. The KKK only has about 5,000 members nationwide and they've been holding their stupid rallies for decades. It's just that nobody paid attention to them until recently. You know why? Of course you do. It's because Trump won the presidency, and Trump is the all time record holder for Godwin's Law. Trump is like Hitler, which means the people who voted for him must be white supremacists, right? They don't just disagree with us. They are actual evil people. They are Nazis. They should be punched.

Even the people trying to take down the Confederate monuments don't really care about the monuments. In their warped minds, they are sticking one to the Southern Nazis, making it hurt right in their racism. It's not about protecting people. It's about punishing people. Nothing is ever nuanced. It's good vs evil, right vs wrong - moral absolutism in its most naked form. And since the people who disagree with us are evil, we can take whatever extreme measures are necessary in order to stop them, shut them up, or punish them for their wicked ways.

Even this word used by Corvus Belli - it's about what is good and right, not about whether anyone is actually harmed by the usage of that word. CB didn't invent the word and I'm sure lots of worse things have been said by a majority of players during their games - like suggesting that all southerners are racist. You don't have to use a no-no word to be "gross".

Maybe we should take a solemn oath, right here and now, not to prematurely jump the gun and get upset over what could conceivably happen before any harm has actually been committed? We don't have to child proof a world designed for adults. Let's remember the concept of dignity and apply is equally to others as we do ourselves. And for that matter, let's remember the definition of "subjective".

I just solved the problem:
Pirobo means something different (maybe "chicken") in the fictional universe of infinity.
The thing is, the way something sounds in some other language might be offensive, while it isn't in the other. Same goes for meanings of the same words. Ghazzkul Thraka in Russian reads like Ghazzkul sh*tter. If one tries hard enough, he can tie any word to something bad.

Ps:#chicken_shaming
Pss: I just remembered that in prisons of east Europe chicken(cock to be precise) means something bad. See, proves my point.