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Still trying to parse through the Italian leaks but in general necrons are looking scary against infantry but looking a little lacking versus vehicles. The doomsday ark and heavy destroyer seem like the only real options against the knights or MCs (really anything T8 which is seeming common) of the game. Too soon to be doom and gloom of course but I'd love anyone else's thoughts so far.

 buddha wrote:
Still trying to parse through the Italian leaks but in general necrons are looking scary against infantry but looking a little lacking versus vehicles. The doomsday ark and heavy destroyer seem like the only real options against the knights or MCs (really anything T8 which is seeming common) of the game. Too soon to be doom and gloom of course but I'd love anyone else's thoughts so far.

Yeah, we're pretty screwed against vehicles, there's just no good way to deal with them any more.

Also, some more leaks from miniwars:



380 points and they couldn't even let us keep monoliths hitting on 3+, or let the Nightbringer keep S10. I'm getting pretty sick of seeing everything go up in points and be substantially worse to be honest. Fear the mighty monolith and it's underwhelming collection of heavy bolters and a battlecannon which is as accurate as Joe the Guardsman! Watch in terror as the mighty C'tan flail ineffectually against a Dreadnought!

So it looks like Nightbringer melee is S7 vs vehicles and 2+ to wound vs anything else.
I like the Illusion thing of the Deceiver

Monolith Gauss hits as hard as an Immortal? Looks weak, but cool as a unit.

Monolith Gate of Eternity seems to indicate that when you use it or Night Scythes, they don't "carry" units so much as you put units in reserve and decide which ones to bring on, when. Which is great, since you can put Lychguard and Warriors in reserve and decide which one to bring out on which turn. Awesome!

C'tan look good. S7 is enough to threaten most things in combat, will never be wounding on 6s other than insane buffs/debuffs, and AP-4 and Damage d6 or 3 means you'll crash through any number of enemy units. The Nightbringer's shooting attack is particularly nasty.

You can bring a Deceiver and a Nightbringer together. Deceiver redeploys the Nightbringer forward, Nightbringer shoots his nasty attack on Turn 1, both use powers. Sounds great to me!

Even if our stuff has taken a step back in power (I'm not convinced that it has... just a starting proposition), we also know that other things in other armies have also taken a hit. Balance is good, change (at least from where things were) is good!
We are seeing more of the puzzle, but it isn't all there yet. It's like trying to judge the Mona Lisa by only looking at an eyebrow. Wait.. be patient.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Even if our stuff has taken a step back in power (I'm not convinced that it has... just a starting proposition), we also know that other things in other armies have also taken a hit. Balance is good, change (at least from where things were) is good!
We are seeing more of the puzzle, but it isn't all there yet. It's like trying to judge the Mona Lisa by only looking at an eyebrow. Wait.. be patient.

I'm not sure we have taken a step back in power. Maybe a lateral move but based on the current leaks we still are hitting the normal necron Staples of durability and Mobility well. From the info we are getting, I am actually most worried about tyranids as a real paper to our Rock but we'll see when we get the complete picture.

Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

 buddha wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Even if our stuff has taken a step back in power (I'm not convinced that it has... just a starting proposition), we also know that other things in other armies have also taken a hit. Balance is good, change (at least from where things were) is good!
We are seeing more of the puzzle, but it isn't all there yet. It's like trying to judge the Mona Lisa by only looking at an eyebrow. Wait.. be patient.

I'm not sure we have taken a step back in power. Maybe a lateral move but based on the current leaks we still are hitting the normal necron Staples of durability and Mobility well. From the info we are getting, I am actually most worried about tyranids as a real paper to our Rock but we'll see when we get the complete picture.

Necrons vs. Tyranids vs. Blood Angels is a storyline that I hope they flesh out. I'm really excited for my store's copy to get here.

So, the good news - Monoliths can now safely deepstrike, as they always should have.

The bad news - they forgot how to aim.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So, the good news - Monoliths can now safely deepstrike, as they always should have.

The bad news - they forgot how to aim.

Great news: their teleporting and reserve functionality is the best it's been in ages!

Requizen wrote:
Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

Except the reason why we never had as much dedicated anti armor was because it was a trade off for all of our weapons being able to damage vehicles. Now that trade off doesn't exist; we traded ubiquitous anti vehicle for anti-infantry, which we already had.
We still don't have as many at options as the other factions, with nothing to compensate.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

Except the reason why we never had as much dedicated anti armor was because it was a trade off for all of our weapons being able to damage vehicles. Now that trade off doesn't exist; we traded ubiquitous anti vehicle for anti-infantry, which we already had.
We still don't have as many at options as the other factions, with nothing to compensate.

Nothing to compensate? Ok buddy.

Requizen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So, the good news - Monoliths can now safely deepstrike, as they always should have.

The bad news - they forgot how to aim.

Great news: their teleporting and reserve functionality is the best it's been in ages!

Yeah, they are better as a support unit, which they always have been, really.
Its just a bit annoying to see that 3+ to hit gone.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

Except the reason why we never had as much dedicated anti armor was because it was a trade off for all of our weapons being able to damage vehicles. Now that trade off doesn't exist; we traded ubiquitous anti vehicle for anti-infantry, which we already had.
We still don't have as many at options as the other factions, with nothing to compensate.

Not really. AV -2 is still AV-2, whether it is on a vehicle or infantry.

Requizen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

Except the reason why we never had as much dedicated anti armor was because it was a trade off for all of our weapons being able to damage vehicles. Now that trade off doesn't exist; we traded ubiquitous anti vehicle for anti-infantry, which we already had.
We still don't have as many at options as the other factions, with nothing to compensate.

Nothing to compensate? Ok buddy.

I...just remembered that everything wounds on a 6. So nothing actually changed. Gauss still wounds vehicles on a six, the vehicle just gets less armor now compared to other factions basic weapons.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

Except the reason why we never had as much dedicated anti armor was because it was a trade off for all of our weapons being able to damage vehicles. Now that trade off doesn't exist; we traded ubiquitous anti vehicle for anti-infantry, which we already had.
We still don't have as many at options as the other factions, with nothing to compensate.

Not really. AV -2 is still AV-2, whether it is on a vehicle or infantry.

Yeah, I just remembered they changed how wounding works. Everything wounds on a 6 now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

Except the reason why we never had as much dedicated anti armor was because it was a trade off for all of our weapons being able to damage vehicles. Now that trade off doesn't exist; we traded ubiquitous anti vehicle for anti-infantry, which we already had.
We still don't have as many at options as the other factions, with nothing to compensate.

Nothing to compensate? Ok buddy.

Please point out the anti armor options they get in return for the loss of gauss effectiveness against vehicles.
Extra Ap doesn't count, because you still have to wound in order to proc it. As I said before, the change to gauss makes them more effective against infantry, which we already had plenty ways to deal with. Its not really a net gain. Certainly strong, but not quite what was needed for a balanced armory.

We never had a "balanced armory". Our only anti-vehicle weapons (Heavy Destroyers) were nearly as expensive per model as squads of other things for one shot. We never had a drop pod melta or anything like that, we relied on mass Gauss. Now we're going to rely on Mass Gauss again.

"But everyone else can wound on 6s too!"

Oh? Do bolters have AP-1? Do heavy bolters have AP-2? Our basic weapons look to be the best in the game at this point in time, making wounds that get through able to stick harder than anyone else (that don't do MWs). And we have more mobility options than ever before given how our Reserves seem to work now and Deceiver being worth taking and essentially giving d3 units Infiltrate.

Are we going to be able to instagib Knights, Landraiders, and Soul Grinders? No, but we've haven't been able to do that for years, so who cares? If you compare our current playstyle to the new rules, we're going to play very much the same and do it just as well if not better from the current looks.

Yeah I remembered the wounding change. Everything is working as intended.
Now what do crypteks get? Any word on them? Is Lance of Destruction still a thing?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah I remembered the wounding change. Everything is working as intended.
Now what do crypteks get? Any word on them? Is Lance of Destruction still a thing?

Looks like the old Cryptek weapons are in the book, no word on them though.

It's also worth noting we haven't seen flayed ones' or scarabs' profiles yet. Scarabs have always been pretty good VS vehicles, and if they always wound on 5+ and keep their high number of attacks, that's not going to be changing. Flayed ones were a whirligig of death in 7th too and have gone up in cost, so it'll be pretty interesting to see how they play out.

I think we've just had all the bad news up front. I hope. For sure, Immortals look really scary, and Warriors are super cheap. I'm hoping that when we see stuff like the Triarch Stalker and the Wraith rules that it'll be a breath of fresh air.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Honestly it looks like our weapons still fill the role they did before. We don't have any direct weapons for dealing with heavy targets - Melta, Grav, Missilespam, etc - but we never did. Instead, we got by on spamming Gauss and mid-strength shooting coupled with durability.

Now, our midrange shooting is pretty good, everything having very good AP other than Tesla (but that getting more shots across the board if I'm not mistaken), and our durability is different but still extremely powerful in most cases. We'll play very similarly but with a couple tweaks and different units.

Except the reason why we never had as much dedicated anti armor was because it was a trade off for all of our weapons being able to damage vehicles. Now that trade off doesn't exist; we traded ubiquitous anti vehicle for anti-infantry, which we already had.
We still don't have as many at options as the other factions, with nothing to compensate.

Heavy Destroyers
Triarch Stalkers
Doom Scythe
Pylons
Destroyer Ark
Nightshroud Bomber
Warscythes

All capable of blowing up armour very easily, especially now they've been buffed to have more durability. Our flyers are some of the best in the game, have we seen a profile for the death ray yet?

We have big guns.

Death Ray was on that one weapon page pasted.. think it was S10 / -5 / D6

 Klowny wrote:
Heavy Destroyers
Triarch Stalkers
Doom Scythe
Pylons
Destroyer Ark
Nightshroud Bomber
Warscythes

All capable of blowing up armour very easily, especially now they've been buffed to have more durability. Our flyers are some of the best in the game, have we seen a profile for the death ray yet?

We have big guns.

Heavy Destroyers are 75 points for 1 shot. Stalkers are at best 171 for 2. Doom scythes are 220. Pylons won't have rules on release. Doomsday Arks are 203 and can't move. Nightshrouds won't have rules on release. Warscythes are barely better than autocannons now. None of these solve the issue of needing mass anti tank. Compared to other races, Necrons are in a tough spot.

Deathrays are heavy D3 S10 AP-4 D6 damage. In other works, they're slightly better lascannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, I got some answers on /tg/ about Destroyers:

destroyers are 43 pts (heavys aswell) gauss cannon 20 pts heavy gauss cannon 32 pts

m 10" ws 3+ bs 3+ s 4 t 5 w 3 a 3 ld 10 sv 3+

may reroll to hit rolls of 1

can move and fire heavy weapons without suffering the -1 to hit
gauss cannon: 24" heavy 2 s 5 ap -3 dmg d3
heavy gauss cannon 36" heavy 1 s 9 ap -4 dmg d6

Here's some maths versus 3 Immortals, versus what I thought would be common profiles (the equivalent points):

VS T3/4 5+:
Warriors with Gauss(T3) - 1.85 wounds, 3.70 within 12"
Warriors with Gauss(T4) - 1.39 wounds, 2.78 within 12"
Immortals with Gauss - 1.33 wounds, 2.67 within 12"
Immortals with Tesla - 2.67 wounds
Destroyers - 1.04 wounds

VS T3/4 3+:
Warriors with Gauss(T3) - 1.11 wounds, 2.22 within 12"
Warriors with Gauss(T4) - 0.83 wounds, 1.67 within 12"
Immortals with Gauss - 0.89 wounds, 1.78 within 12"
Immortals with Tesla - 1.33 wounds
Destroyers - 0.86 wounds (1.67 to multiwound)

VS T3/4 W2 2+:
Warriors with Gauss(T3) - 0.74 wounds, 1.48 within 12"
Warriors with Gauss(T4) - 0.56 wounds, 1.11 within 12"
Immortals with Gauss - 0.67 wounds, 1.33 within 12"
Immortals with Tesla - 0.67 wounds
Destroyers - 1.38 wounds (0.69 vs 1 wound models)

VS T5 W2 (or more) 3+:
Warriors with Gauss - 0.56 wounds, 1.11 within 12"
Immortals with Gauss - 0.67 wounds, 1.33 within 12"
Immortals with Tesla - 1 wound
Destroyers - 1.30 wounds (0.65 vs 1 wound models)

VS T6/7/8/9 W2 (or more) 3+:
Warriors with Gauss(T6/7) - 0.56 wounds, 1.11 within 12"
Warriors with Gauss(T8+) - 0.28 wounds, 0.56 within 12"
Immortals with Gauss - 0.44 wounds, 0.89 within 12"
Immortals with Tesla - 0.67 wounds
Destroyers - 0.86 wounds (0.43 vs 1 wound models)

Seeing these actually changed my mind on Destroyers a little. They're slightly behind against any 1 wound model, but only really significantly for units with 5+ saves. However, on multiple wound models, they always come out ahead at range due to the D3 damage. Meanwhile, tesla is a great average between half and full range Gauss, falling almost exactly half way between the 2 thanks to averaging 1 hit per shot, while suffering from no AP. Generally, that means you'd want Gauss Immortals for short range, Tesla Immortals for long range and Destroyers for multiwound units between 12"-24". Destroyers make up for some loss in wound output with higher toughness and movement. Overall they seem relatively balanced if a little superfluous; I think I'd still rather take the bodies elsewhere. However, Immortals clearly beat warriors in many situations, notably against MEQ /TEQ and T8+, yet worse against the common T6/7 as well as hordes with poor saves. I feel like a unit of both might actually be a good, balanced approach in the new edition as neither are obviously better.

Final verdict: Destroyers are durable and mobile, but underwhelming, filling no necessary role. Take something better, like something which is kills tanks.

Necrons! In English!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvf6Vkg0DK/?taken-by=canhammer_yt

"Solarmills? Charge!"
Zahndrekh confirmed for 40k Don Quixote.
(though seriously, I actually kinda like his madness abilities. Keep a variety of units near him and he'll always have something useful to give out)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Glad we have more info, and in English this time, but a little disappointed they still haven't gotten shots of all the entries (eg. Destroyers, Vault, Night Scythes, etc)

Really, physically hurting to find out what Crypteks (including the SCs) and Anrakyr do.

They even cut Lychguard off right before showing if maybe, just maybe, we got the Dispersion Shield bounce back.

--

With what info we have available I've been milling over the idea of a very expensive slingshot, using the Deceiver and the Monolith, to get around "no portal deploying on turn 1" and "no turn 1 charges with Deceiver's redeploy."

Relocate the Deceiver and the Monolith (and maybe some more stuff, like perhaps Pyrhhian Eternals, please lord let someone reveal what Anrakyr does!), then at the start of your Movement Phase, deploy your reserved assault unit of choice from the Monolith. Move, charge, etc, and drag the Deceiver into combat with "Heroic Intervention," since piling in isn't charging...

Costs a ton, but everything does now it seems!

Drakmord wrote:
Really, physically hurting to find out what Crypteks (including the SCs) and Anrakyr do.

Current rumor was that Crypteks add 1 to Reanimation rolls (meaning half your dudes stand up in a bubble around him) and also he gives out a 5++ against shooting like current Chronometron.

Not to mention if you look at weapons, the Harbinger weapons are back!

With what info we have available I've been milling over the idea of a very expensive slingshot, using the Deceiver and the Monolith, to get around "no portal deploying on turn 1" and "no turn 1 charges with Deceiver's redeploy."

Relocate the Deceiver and the Monolith (and maybe some more stuff, like perhaps Pyrhhian Eternals, please lord let someone reveal what Anrakyr does!), then at the start of your Movement Phase, deploy your reserved assault unit of choice from the Monolith. Move, charge, etc, and drag the Deceiver into combat with "Heroic Intervention," since piling in isn't charging...

Costs a ton, but everything does now it seems!

Pretty cool combo! Plus since you're using a Monolith, you can put stuff in reserve so you've got a good shot at going first! I think Deceiver will have a lot of really cool options going forward.

Also note those 3 Wound Wraiths! Still 3++ and T5, they just get tougher every edition. And... cheaper by 2 points per model? I guess they didn't sell enough! Transdimensional Beamers are both better and worse - more shots and Heavy works differently, so you'll actually hit with them, but also no more chance of just removing models. But, chances at MWs is good as is just more AP-1 shooting.

Can't wait for the rest! While I really was hoping to put 3 Monoliths on the table, it's looking like footcrons are the way to go for the time being, with a Monolith mixed in for spicy teleport shenanigans.

Are the Harbinger weapons back?! I could only spot the Eldritch Lance and Staff of Tomorrow, which I assumed to belong to the Szeras and Orikan, respectively. I'll have to keep looking!

hmm, doesn't say if lychguard can mix and match, dont think so however.

Obryn's teleport is annoying now, needs Zandrekh to use. i suppose a 1-2 combo with some scythe guard reinforcing a zandrekh thats been transported up the board by a nightscythe?

wraiths..... 3W and -1 rend base is nice. TDB is not a pistol anymore, probably would have been auto include if it was. Whip coils, nice bit of reassurance that they will get their damage off, but I feel the particle casters are a better investment? 9 points of whip coils vs 4 points particle casters?

Particle shredder is pretty good now, heavy 6.

Actually, how come the death ray and doomsday cannon are only heavy d3, while the particle shredder is heavy 6 when all were large blasts in 7th?

Another nerf to GA, now twinlinked 5 not salvo, meaning we lose shots if at full range vs. 7th.

Nice to see our deathmarks get the good snipers, with mortal wounds on 6's.

Particle beamer vs gauss blaster, heavy 3, S6, AP0, D1 vs rapid fire 1, S5, AP-2, D1. Feels the gauss blasters are going to be the way to go all the time now, most consistent damage, and will probably be TL on the TB, so rapid fire 2?

Nightbringer and Deciever look good again. Big improvement over 7th, Nightbringer has more reliable damage, but decievers ability is good too, maybe both of them would be good on the field. Expensive though.

One thing that bugs me is that Zandrekh, Obryn and Imotekh have the Sautekh keywords. It makes sense fluff wise, but now if i want to bring them my Nihilakh crons will have to be 'on loan' to the Sautekh dynasty so they can benefit from their auras....

Scarabs are 7points cheaper a model, Deathmarks, praetorians, tomb blades scytheguard and flayed ones are more expensive, immortals are the same (so buffed considering their damage now).

Im happy overall new(old) RP has more counterplay now, and is different workings, gives more thematic feel to the crons.

Drakmord wrote:
Are the Harbinger weapons back?! I could only spot the Eldritch Lance and Staff of Tomorrow, which I assumed to belong to the Szeras and Orikan, respectively. I'll have to keep looking!

Agh, you're probably right, I forgot they had those names. I was hyped on the idea of Harbingers but you're probably right.

@Eyjio looks like Destroyers will be our go-to against elite multiwound armies. Will sit on the shelf if hordes become the meta, but if Primaris and Grey Knights are on all the tables they'll be in all my lists.

And Move 10" for shooting units is pretty cool.

Also, Nightbringer has fly... so can fight flyers?

Close combat weapons:

Automaton claws - ?
Cracking Tendrils - Sypder
Feeder mandibles - Scarabs?
Massive Forelimbs - ?????????????????????????? (potentially a misprint of star-god fists? or maybe trancendant's CCW)