Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/06/22 23:55:42
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
Pylon is good. Heat Ray is best Sentry Pylon. Acanthrites might be good if they were cheaper. Characters are alright, not auto take but pretty good (Kutlakh makes Lychguard pretty great). Both millipedes are solid picks. Tesseract Ark is good but a bit on the expensive side imo (but not too much). Bomber is interesting but I wouldn't use it.
Overall looks good, might supplement existing Crons quite well. Might be buying some Resin this year.
2017/06/23 00:07:56
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
Me and my fellow cron mate plays RP. That all wounds come back on each fig if they come back.
We take it as it say comes back (whole) not comes back with 1 wound or d3 wounds
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote: New FW rules up on /tg/, can't reup right now.
Pylon is good. Heat Ray is best Sentry Pylon. Acanthrites might be good if they were cheaper. Characters are alright, not auto take but pretty good (Kutlakh makes Lychguard pretty great). Both millipedes are solid picks. Tesseract Ark is good but a bit on the expensive side imo (but not too much). Bomber is interesting but I wouldn't use it.
Overall looks good, might supplement existing Crons quite well. Might be buying some Resin this year.
What's the tomb board like?
Tried to do a search to find the few stuff but to move avail :( thanks got heads up thou
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 00:59:01
2017/06/23 01:00:13
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
vipoid wrote: By the way, how are you guys playing RPs?
Are you saying that multi-wound models like Destroyers and Praetorians come back with full wounds or with just 1 wound?
(I know that there's a thread about this in YMDC, but last I checked it's up to 9 pages and has still gone absolutely bloody nowhere.)
If the models were only supposed to come back with one wound it'd say as much, like with every other mechanic where a model comes back with only one wound. Anyone who says otherwise is just convinced it's OP, tbh.
Here are the full Necron FW leaks. Kutlakh seems juicy, might make assault crons a very viable idea.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 01:10:19
2017/06/23 01:38:53
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
vipoid wrote: By the way, how are you guys playing RPs?
Are you saying that multi-wound models like Destroyers and Praetorians come back with full wounds or with just 1 wound?
(I know that there's a thread about this in YMDC, but last I checked it's up to 9 pages and has still gone absolutely bloody nowhere.)
They come back with full wounds, because it just says to return the models. People arguing otherwise are just inventing rules because they think it's too good - there's no basis for any other way to play it in the actual rules.
The Necrons FW stuff seems REALLY good. Pylons look incredibly good. It's not entirely clear whether they're supposed to pay for the teleportation matrix, but assuming they are then for 485 points you get a serious weapon. To put its firepower into perspective, against a T8 tank, it expects to deal (7/2)(2/3)(5/6)(8)=~15.6 damage per turn and needs to lose 17+ wounds to lose effectiveness - 16 wounds dealt heals with living metal. Even if the enemy has a 5++, that cripples almost anything in one turn. Better still, it basically ignores combat - whilst you don't want to get hit by a strong unit, combat doesn't stop you firing. Against aircraft it just melts them - ~19.4 damage per turn. It also gives you a cryptekesque save bubble (only to models though, not units), and at T8 W30 3+/5++, it's one of the most durable things in the game for its cost. I'm super excited, it's my favourite super heavy in the game and now it's finally got good rules!
I'm not super impressed by sentry pylons, heavy destroyers just seem a bit better. However, the heat ray one teleporting near an enemy tank might be a nasty trick to pull off once or twice. Otherwise, Death Rays are a short range single shot thing (why so bad?) and the gauss ones have a penalty to fire at the ground. Meh.
Tomb stalkers and tomb sentinels are quite interesting. Sort of discount trygons really - they pop up and threaten to wreck the backfield. I really like the sentinel's gun, but realistically you're probably not getting it into the 12" range of the super juicy targets as they'll be bubblewrapped. Still, they seem good for their cost for sure, especially as the Stalker is an elite. Drop them in and they need to be killed outright, as their profiles don't degrade. Take 3 sentinels for 525 points, and all of a sudden your anti tank can drop anywhere and is still good in combat. Brutal.
Acanthrites are short range heavy destroyers with less accurate shooting, a worse gun and no RP for 2/3rds the cost. Seems okay to me. The gun is particularly brutal up close and they're now much better in combat. I dunno how I feel about them - I certainly prefer them to Destroyers, but would I take them and not Heavy Destroyers? Probably not, which leaves them in an odd place.
Night shrouds seem a bit meh with one trick - the bombs are great. You can deal up to 12 mortal wounds, or 3 to a vehicle once per game. It's not incredible, but super mobile mortal wounds are a good trick. Otherwise, it's a tough Night Scythe for a high cost. I feel the bombs will be pretty hard to use in reality, as you risk flying off the table, but it's something. Overall, eh, I'll pass.
Tesseract arks got a lot better. They're surprisingly few wounds, and it's a shame they degrade, but oh man. For 246 points, you get 6 S6 tesla shots (or 260 for 2 gauss cannons, but then you're penalised for moving) and the big gun. The gun is now either a wounding on 2+ AP-2 flamer, a 24" D6 S5 AP-4 dam3 assault gun or a 48" D6 S8 AP-3 damD6 heavy gun. That last one in particular is great considering it used to be 3 S7 ap2 templates - whilst not quite a bunch of lascannons, it's a pretty good impression. It's also got trollish saves - 3+/5++ and QS means that even an overcharged plasma gun, usually a severe threat, does ~0.5 damage per shot. 12 of them would get about 6 wounds but also kill 2 bearers on average too. Lascannons expect to do ~0.61 damage per shot, autocannons ~0.28. It's crazy. Oh, and it's hard to charge (usually 3d6 pick lowest 2), plus can fly away anyway. I love it. Might not be great, but it certainly looks funny.
Tomb citadels are a thing I'll probably never use to be honest. Might be fun for narrative, seems to point heavy for a normal matched game, with not enough return on investment.
Both special characters seem overcosted. Kutlakh now has essentially a force sword, advance+charge seems fine but not amazing, and the other stuff seems cool. Worth 200 points? Nah, I'd rather take a tomb sentinel for that. Very tough though with a 2+/4++. I dunno, maybe I'll try him instead of a regular overlord but I doubt it's going to be worth it usually - just Imotekh mk2. Toholk is a cryptek who gives a vehicle a phylactery and rerolls initiative, with different shooting and melee which I think usually work out to be worse than a staff of light, and 61 points more. The initiative thing is great, no doubt, and the vehicle buff is surprisingly relevant (imagine a tesseract ark regaining 3 wounds... or a pylon). Worth the extra cost? Meh, probably not. Szeras fights better, shoots better and I prefer the unit buff to the vehicle+5++ buffs. Worth a try but I'm not expecting miracles.
Overall, I'm extremely pleased. This really patches up the AT capabilities. Even if all you do is take a Pylon, you're now expecting to kill a tank per turn and it's very hard to shut down. That's a pretty major improvement. The tesseract ark puts out withering amounts of fire, like a tougher, longer ranged ground doom scythe. Acanthrites can rush down vehicles even as small units. Stalkers can pop in and charge from behind. Overall, it's a dream update.
2017/06/23 02:00:50
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
MoonlightSonata wrote: Where are you seeing the rules for the Gauss Pylon? It's not in the imgur album that was linked.
Spoiler:
Edit: Incidentally I want to smash my second unpainted tomb citadel tile over the head of whoever is responsible for the new rules for it. Once upon a time you could take two in a game (sans upgrades) for 500pts. Now that'd nearly cost 1600pts/80pp for precious little.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 02:27:08
10,000+
2017/06/23 02:21:48
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
vipoid wrote: By the way, how are you guys playing RPs?
Are you saying that multi-wound models like Destroyers and Praetorians come back with full wounds or with just 1 wound?
(I know that there's a thread about this in YMDC, but last I checked it's up to 9 pages and has still gone absolutely bloody nowhere.)
They come back with full wounds, because it just says to return the models. People arguing otherwise are just inventing rules because they think it's too good - there's no basis for any other way to play it in the actual rules.
The correct answer is that GW never told us how many wounds they come back with. If you want to keep arguing that they come back with full wounds, there's a 9 page discussion in YMDC covering the topic. It doesn't belong here.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/06/23 03:03:29
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
I find it hilarious that the gauss pylon can't actually hurt anything with quantum shielding because it does too much damage for a d6 to not roll under.
2017/06/23 04:09:30
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
vipoid wrote: By the way, how are you guys playing RPs?
Are you saying that multi-wound models like Destroyers and Praetorians come back with full wounds or with just 1 wound?
(I know that there's a thread about this in YMDC, but last I checked it's up to 9 pages and has still gone absolutely bloody nowhere.)
They come back with full wounds, because it just says to return the models. People arguing otherwise are just inventing rules because they think it's too good - there's no basis for any other way to play it in the actual rules.
The correct answer is that GW never told us how many wounds they come back with. If you want to keep arguing that they come back with full wounds, there's a 9 page discussion in YMDC covering the topic. It doesn't belong here.
That thread had a resolution already. Destroyers come back with 3 wounds. Orknado proved it on the thread.
2017/06/23 05:50:27
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
I dont know how exacly QS works.
When i get 10 wound from 10 infrantry model from one unit i can ignore it?
When i get 10 wound from 10 weapon fire by one model i can ignore it?
When i get 10 wound from one weapon with 10 hit i can ignore it?
Or i can only ignore one hit with hi D characteristic?
2017/06/23 06:21:16
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
Can only ignore hits with a high damage characteristic. If a QS model takes an unsaved wound from an autocannon which has a D of 2, it would need to roll a 1 to negate that. If a lascannon scored an unsaved wound and then rolled a 6 on its d6 damage roll then the QS model would negate it on a 1-5.
10 single damage wounds be they from 10 infantry or a heavy 10 gun can't be stopped by QS because you can't roll under a 1.
2017/06/23 06:27:10
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
I noticed that I am confused. The sentry pylon (100 points) with a gauss exterminator (50 points) seems substantially cheaper than a Gauss Pylon at 475 points.
Am I missing something incredibly obvious as the imgur page doesn't have a separate data slate for a Gauss Pylon
2017/06/23 06:35:36
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
Kuguar6 wrote: I dont know how exacly QS works.
When i get 10 wound from 10 infrantry model from one unit i can ignore it?
When i get 10 wound from 10 weapon fire by one model i can ignore it?
When i get 10 wound from one weapon with 10 hit i can ignore it?
Or i can only ignore one hit with hi D characteristic?
No, No, and, No. You have to roll under the damage done to have QS go off, so you can never save a hit that does 1 wound at a time. So it's only (and I use that word with a hint of irony) good against things like las cannons, meltas, krak missiles, and neutron lasers.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/06/23 07:04:07
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
Godeskian wrote: I noticed that I am confused. The sentry pylon (100 points) with a gauss exterminator (50 points) seems substantially cheaper than a Gauss Pylon at 475 points.
Am I missing something incredibly obvious as the imgur page doesn't have a separate data slate for a Gauss Pylon
The Gauss Pylon has a different gun that is muuuuuch bigger.
2017/06/23 07:09:44
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
Godeskian wrote: I noticed that I am confused. The sentry pylon (100 points) with a gauss exterminator (50 points) seems substantially cheaper than a Gauss Pylon at 475 points.
Am I missing something incredibly obvious as the imgur page doesn't have a separate data slate for a Gauss Pylon
The Gauss Pylon has a different gun that is muuuuuch bigger.
Guass pylon has a godlike supakannonfrom he'll with the macro rule it will 1 shot a knight on average.
2017/06/23 07:24:55
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
The Gauss Pylon has a different gun that is muuuuuch bigger.
Well, I do like big guns, I cannot lie
Guass pylon has a godlike supakannonfrom he'll with the macro rule it will 1 shot a knight on average.
I can dig that. Was there a rules leak for it yet as the imgur page up thread only included the sentry gun
Requizen linked it in a spoilered post just above. The thing is absolutely crazy good for 475/485 (unclear) points. It's also pretty cool how they gave it a "pistol" for combat whilst allowing it to be automatically hit and not fight back. The big gun averages 8 damage per wound, or 16 against titanic units and has to die to stop firing. Not only does the big gun deal more damage on average than when it was Str D, it fires more shots on average now too.
But yeah, as Actinium said, it's pretty funny that 6+D3 damage means it can't hurt Necron vehicles with quantum shielding at all with its main gun. I guess if they get within 18", it can fire it's S6 profile.
2017/06/23 08:23:00
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2017/06/23 11:39:25
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
If I have any complaint about the Pylon it's that it doesn't have supporting weapons. Compared to the Baneblade variants, they all get their one big gun and then a bunch of things like Lascannons, Heavy Flamers, Heavy Bolters, Autocannons, etc.
However, none of their bug guns are nearly as good as the Gauss Annihilator, so it's a fairly minor complaint.
I'm really feeling the Centipedes. I think both are useful - the Sentinel seems a smidge better (better gun and nearly as good in a fight) but the Stalker is just fine as well. I think they might ve better surprise backfielders than Flayed Ones.
2017/06/23 12:10:57
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
The Stalkers/Sentinels were long overdue for having good rules so this is a pleasant surprise. I love the fact that that the best option for the Sentry Pylon is the heat cannon which can no longer be bought and likely will never be available again.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/23 12:14:20
10,000+
2017/06/23 13:53:54
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / power builds discussion starts pg.61
Titanicus wrote: Guass pylon has a godlike supakannonfrom he'll with the macro rule it will 1 shot a knight on average.
The Gauss Pylon gun is pretty good, but no, it will not 1-shot a knight on average. It has a 16% chance of one-shotting a knight. It has a 53% chance of killing a knight in two shots. I'd probably bring a Stalker with it, to give it the reroll 1s to hit, since it's only 3+ to hit a non-flyer.
2017/06/23 14:02:09
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Hey first post in years, not reapply played since 5th, but thought I'd give it another go,
Orikan the Diviner143 Cryptek104 Destroyer Lord: Warscythe 135
"Average math" has it doing 20.1 wounds to a Knight. Even if it only does 20, that puts the Knight in the final tier of effectiveness and basically cripples it for the rest of the game, and makes it easy pickings for even Gauss Immortals or a couple Warscythes to pick through. Anything higher than average kills it in one shot. That's pretty good.
Against anything that's not Knight levels of endurance, it generally one-shots. Magnus has a good chance of surviving it with his uber-save, but it'll pop most any Vehicle or Monster that can't hide.
2017/06/23 15:13:01
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Requizen wrote: "Average math" has it doing 20.1 wounds to a Knight. Even if it only does 20, that puts the Knight in the final tier of effectiveness and basically cripples it for the rest of the game, and makes it easy pickings for even Gauss Immortals or a couple Warscythes to pick through. Anything higher than average kills it in one shot. That's pretty good.
Against anything that's not Knight levels of endurance, it generally one-shots. Magnus has a good chance of surviving it with his uber-save, but it'll pop most any Vehicle or Monster that can't hide.
I simulated it over a few million trials, didn't use average math.
Your 'average math' doesn't add up, either.
3.5 (attacks) * (4/6) to hit * (5/6) to wound * (4/6) invuln * 8 avg dmg = 10.4.
I was wrong. Re-ran:
26.5% chance to do nothing.
36% chance to do between 14 and 18 wounds.
37.5% chance to one shot a knight.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/23 16:08:28
2017/06/23 15:15:10
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
You could always My Will Be Done a pylon and hold aside a command point for number of shots on the turn you really need it to kill or at least cripple a superheavy.
2017/06/23 15:16:00
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
10,000+ 
