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2017/06/24 16:45:22
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
They had their entire pop take the metal skinny dip, then depending on how much of their "mind" is left they place where useful. Warriors near brain dead but they have the simple job but TBs are their space fighters that are badass enough to wreck gak in atmosphere as well and no cover will save you.
I have seen other good conversions that use bass gutair strings to replace the limbs and head. The final look is pretty cool and alien looking.
2017/06/24 17:14:14
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Still the best looking necron flyer though.
Seeing that stupid gaping hole in the cockpit of the GW ones gives me a head ache.
"Oh dear, an enemy aircraft. Where oh where am I going to shoot it?!"
skoffs wrote: I'd assume Kutlakh + Antakyr near a unit or two of Lychguard would be pretty disgusting.
Watching Reecius' latest 'Cron VS Guard match on twitch, he made an interesting point about Immortals.
That for 85 points, MSU Tesla squads are excellent little place-and-forget choices. They're able to operate pretty much autonomously, requiring very little help or management, while still managing to contribute decently to the game (semi-long distance harassment and Objective chasing).
Yeah, they're easier to kill than 10 man squads, but they're not THAT expensive, so you're going to be getting back your points investment throughout the course of the game.
I think a Brick of 15-20 Warriors supported by Cryptek plus a couple minimum sized T.Immortal units may be worth considering for a base/core of most army lists (at a minimum of 454 for those four units, it's definitely a reasonable way to fill a quarter or your points limit).
Also, in the same broadcast he mentioned that big groups of Tesla Tomb Blades and Rod Praetorians were units to be feared this edition... not sure how that would work out, but maybe worth investigating.
That's a good point about min Tesla units. You don't necessarily need MWBD on 10 to do good damage, especially if you're gonna throw it on HDs or Lychguard or Praets.
Still not sold on Tomb Blades. There's enough range in the game that they'll just pop. I kind of want to try Praets as well, but I'm not sure that game was the best indicator of their ability. The IG player made a lot of mistakes so it's a bit misleading imo.
I was toying with bringing a squad of 9 tesla TB against gaunt spam. 9 TB puts out 36 tesla shots a turn, on a more mobile and durable chassis than immortals, ignores the cover bonuses (which is critical for most armies in this edition). Run them with a screening unit of scarabs (so they can pick the combats/get the hell out of dodge if scary cc comes near them) and they are a nasty little unit. Run them near a CCB (can keep up with them very well, and provides his own CC threat/tesla platform), with the 12" command wave, and that unit is now hitting with the 36 tesla shots on 2+, proccing on 5+. They have the 'FLY' keyword so they can fall back and shoot, which immortals cannot. Stick them in cover, and they are also a 2+ save with 2 wounds.... . Point a stalker at the unit you want dead and they're now rerolling 1's. The buffs stack up, but it does eat a lot of the force. Even min with scarabs is 500 points odd for the unit and min. screen. And if you want the same but against elite/shooty armies, then put gauss on them. Ridiculous amount of shots of high quality, cover ignoring gauss. Also
Effective, flexible but expensive, so nowhere near as spammy as 7th, but they are a lot stronger units now considering the meta.
Tomb Blades looks great and first i also take it on my list but they havent got Infrantry key word!
So you cant use MWBD or WoC on blade.
You cant also give blade chronometr or use resurection orb.
They can only get Technomancer.
They are still good but not with CCB and immortal can be better with all boost.
2017/06/24 22:00:47
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Any one recon it's a mistake in the IA xenos book about the double costing of the staff of light. ( it's listed in both the shooting and Melee section) both say 18 points.
Ask if it's a mistake as in norm book it's only listed once in the xenos book.
2017/06/24 22:16:46
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Still the best looking necron flyer though.
Seeing that stupid gaping hole in the cockpit of the GW ones gives me a head ache.
"Oh dear, an enemy aircraft. Where oh where am I going to shoot it?!"
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Still the best looking necron flyer though.
Seeing that stupid gaping hole in the cockpit of the GW ones gives me a head ache.
"Oh dear, an enemy aircraft. Where oh where am I going to shoot it?!"
Hmm. Tomb Blades are about the only reason i'd consider using a Command Barge, but the idea does have some merit. A TB is only 8 points more than two Immortals for the same woudns and firepower, with the difference in T and Sv probably being a close to a wash. 5 TBs are just over 200 points and do put out a silly amount of firepower. Toss in some Scarabs and Wraiths and you have a nice mobile wing force.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2017/06/24 23:40:16
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Grimgold wrote: Watched that same FLG batrep, though the real star of that bat rep was the scythe lychguard. Though it did get me to try out Praetorians andy they worked great against primaris marines killed two intercessor squads, two lieutenants, and finished off his hellblasters before he finally got them.
Honestly the real star of that Batrep was the AM doing questionable decisions like shooting all their firepower into the Warriors when the Basilisk could have easily iced the HDestroyers or any other number of more prominent targest. And then he ran all of his vehicles into charge/rapid fire range without doing any damage on the way in. Running up to the massive LoS blocking terrain that is hiding very strong, untouched melee units is bad at best.
I'm not saying that the Necrons were handed the game but it clearly could have gone much worse for them.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: By the way, do you guys think that Immortals should be run in units of 10 whenever possible, or is it worth splitting them into 5s for MSU?
I think it depends. If you don't want to bring an Overlord and instead want to focus on Crypteks or DLords, units of 5 is good. Also, if you want the Battalion bonus and the solid Tesla shooting but don't want to dump 1/6 of your army into Troops, min units are fine too.
2017/06/25 00:14:43
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Tomb Blades looks great and first i also take it on my list but they havent got Infrantry key word!
So you cant use MWBD or WoC on blade.
You cant also give blade chronometr or use resurection orb.
They can only get Technomancer.
They are still good but not with CCB and immortal can be better with all boost.
Well there goes that idea. The whole point of Tesla is to explode it on a 5+. Oh well. As you were gentlemen.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2017/06/25 01:11:46
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Tomb Blades looks great and first i also take it on my list but they havent got Infrantry key word!
So you cant use MWBD or WoC on blade.
You cant also give blade chronometr or use resurection orb.
They can only get Technomancer.
They are still good but not with CCB and immortal can be better with all boost.
Well there goes that idea. The whole point of Tesla is to explode it on a 5+. Oh well. As you were gentlemen.
They can still benefit from a Stalker's reroll 1s buff, so that may be worth keeping in mind.
But yes, for the most part it would appear Tesla Tomb Blades are an autonomous place-and-forget unit (like MSU T.Immortals).
2017/06/25 01:47:52
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I think TBs would work best with GBs. They have the speed to always be in rapid fire if they want to. 4 shots per TB with ap-2 you will force yoir opponent to respond or have a bad day.
2017/06/25 02:10:01
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
My main problem with TBs was, and remains, that they give the opponent a relatively soft target for multi-wound weapons. A DS Scion plasma squad will erase great chunks of a TB unit in one round of fire. That's why even with the movement bonus, most of my lists still go for immortals if I want Tesla - it is roughly the same wounds, but 1W models take some of the efficiency away from multi-wound weapons (as does QS).
The above is why I think Silver Tide with bulk QS vehicles is probably the most competitive Necron build we;ve talked about so far, at least if the mania for mullti-wound weapons we see on Dakka remains true of your local tournament scene.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2017/06/25 03:39:29
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Fenris-77 wrote: My main problem with TBs was, and remains, that they give the opponent a relatively soft target for multi-wound weapons. A DS Scion plasma squad will erase great chunks of a TB unit in one round of fire. That's why even with the movement bonus, most of my lists still go for immortals if I want Tesla - it is roughly the same wounds, but 1W models take some of the efficiency away from multi-wound weapons (as does QS).
The above is why I think Silver Tide with bulk QS vehicles is probably the most competitive Necron build we;ve talked about so far, at least if the mania for mullti-wound weapons we see on Dakka remains true of your local tournament scene.
But deepstriking scion plasma squads are going for the arks and vehicles. I know they are spammy but remember any that don't wipe a squad now have to survive a round of necron shooting (which they won't) and then we RP back to health.
MSU is good to fill battalion slots, but big blobs are better for RP, depends on your list.
I still think if your going the set and forget route for tesla/gauss, TB beat immortals every time. While buffed Immortals are very good, unless you play them aggressively (and therefore put your squishy overlord in range for slay the warlord), your not getting as much out of them as you would TB. TB can grab objectives, have immortals 3+ cover save naturally, etc etc. considering how fast everything moves this edition the slower you are the more of a disadvantage you are.
I feel 40 warriors and a deceiver is a very good offence, 80 gauss shots per turn on very durable basic troops is scary for every army out there, and will distract them from the rest of your army. If they are supported by enourmous damage from TB, your looking at a T1 threat capable of wiping so much of an enemies front line most games.
12,000
2017/06/25 04:02:28
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I still haven't found a way to beat 18 Dark Lance's and 11 Blasters plus a bunch of Venoms from Dark Eldar, Ynnari with 3 units of Wraithguard in Wave Serpents supported by a Wraithknight and Eldrad, or Chaos with 2 Knights and Magnus and 80 Brimstone Horrors with a Changeling.
I'm looking into how to get 1-2 Pylons for cheap.
2017/06/25 06:35:54
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Marshal_Gus wrote: I still haven't found a way to beat 18 Dark Lance's and 11 Blasters plus a bunch of Venoms from Dark Eldar, Ynnari with 3 units of Wraithguard in Wave Serpents supported by a Wraithknight and Eldrad, or Chaos with 2 Knights and Magnus and 80 Brimstone Horrors with a Changeling.
I'm looking into how to get 1-2 Pylons for cheap.
Wraiths and silver tide? No mortal wounds in that group, all soft targets, and with weapons that are meh against wraiths and warriors/immortals. No need for heavy destroyers or a DDA, flayers and gauss blasters work fine on everything DE have. Probably a unit of deathmarks as well because scourges deserve to get ethereal intercepted. Haven't faced DE yet so I can't talk about the match up beyond the conceptual level, but deceiver bomb should also ruin their day, because they want to keep you at arm's length because of how fragile they are.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/06/25 07:06:36
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Wraiths and silver tide? No mortal wounds in that group, all soft targets, and with weapons that are meh against wraiths and warriors/immortals. No need for heavy destroyers or a DDA, flayers and gauss blasters work fine on everything DE have. Probably a unit of deathmarks as well because scourges deserve to get ethereal intercepted. Haven't faced DE yet so I can't talk about the match up beyond the conceptual level, but deceiver bomb should also ruin their day, because they want to keep you at arm's length because of how fragile they are.
I played against a not entirely optimised DE parking lot yesterday, let me tell you it's not as easy to crack as it looks. in fact, even with a DDA in attendance, I never did crack more than half his vehicles, and the cheerfully relentless firepower of a dozen dark lances, blasters and an unholy amount of splinter rifle's (open topped remember) on platforms with movement fast enough to make Necrons look like they're standing still allowed him to essentially pick a unit (or two in one case) and wipe it entirely off the board, or simply ignore the bulk of the army and focus on claiming objectives.
By the end of the game I still had almost half my army, but after four turns I was down 10 victory points, and I had killed a single venom outright and put wounds on almost everything else. But hitting on 3's, wounding on 5's and then them getting an armour save for their vehicles is a tough, tough nut to crack. A smart DE player is NEVER going to let you into rapid fire range, and fifteen shots per warrior blob is just not going to cut it.
I'm beginning to think that it is going to be essential to field a Necron army with a heavy deep strike component.
Oh last thought, Deceiver bomb doesn't work so well against parking lot, as deploying units in vehicles counts as one deployment, not two, meaning you will go second more often than you think. Even with a command point reroll, seizing the initiative is not a viable strategy.
Crypteks are the boss. Every warrior squad should have one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/25 07:07:42
2017/06/25 08:55:51
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Requizen wrote: I think it depends. If you don't want to bring an Overlord and instead want to focus on Crypteks or DLords, units of 5 is good. Also, if you want the Battalion bonus and the solid Tesla shooting but don't want to dump 1/6 of your army into Troops, min units are fine too.
Thanks, that's a good guide.
2017/06/25 09:36:58
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
1x Deathleaper
2x Flying Hive Tyrants
1x Old one eye
2x Carnifex's
3x Warriors
3x Lictors
1x Trygon (maybe a prime)
1x Mawloc
3x Zoanthrops
90x Hormagaunts (the shooty ones)
First off, tabled him my T4, and I had first turn. Also won 12-5 in objectives. I only lost a unit of scarabs the entire game, and all my vehicles did not lose an efficiency tier.
Things to note:
- Tesseract Vault is amazing against hordes. Stupid amount of tesla, brutal overwatch. He just didnt have the weaponry to kill that much AV, and with regen from the spyder and Toholk it was very effective.
- Tesseract Ark. Holy hell this is awesome. I screened it with scarabs as a front line vehicle, bottlenecked his army and just blasted them with this. Amazing shooting platform, with QS and a 5++ its super resilient. Legit purchasing one right now.
- Tesla in general is super effective, even without MBWD. Anni barge did alot of damage, vault, tesla on ark.
- Monolith is also super effective, couldn't even do wounds to it and it has enough dakka to force lots of squads into break tests.
- Heat ray sentry pylon. This thing. For 175 points you get a better shooting platform than the DDA. It puts out 6 shots a turn vs D3, still has a very good AP and D6 damage. It doesn't have the range but it only got charged once in the game. These are cheaper than DDA, and paired with a stalker would be BRUTAL. Park them midfield for very effective mid range damage.
- Scarab screens are amazing. Lock them in their turn, fall back and then blast them, but only fall back enough to deny the charge on your flyers.
- Fly keyword is so handy! It means your effectiveness is only slightly impaired and the amount of damage this list puts out is very, very good.
- Toholk didnt get the chance to reroll the seize, but his regen helped my DDA after a mawloc attack.
Off to Thailand tomorrow, but going to try and do a maxed TB squad vs Slaanesh and Tzeench demons when I get back.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im only 2 for 2 so far in games, but both times vehicles have won me the games. Against IG I had the objectives but needed to survive a tabling to win, which I did due to having too many wounds on my vehicles.
Second game they were too tough to crack. Not saying it would work against DE, but just spam pylons against armies like that, watch them die quick smart.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/25 09:45:06
12,000
2017/06/25 11:10:45
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
You know what would be kinda funny?
A Deceiver Bomb using multiple Tesseract Vaults/Obelisks.
"Gotta keep 24" away from all that Tesla... oh. Welp, now he's right on top of me with it."
Probably something more that could be done with the points used on Scarabs, but just figured a bunch of cheap things to go after objectives wouldn't be a bad idea.
Maybe 5x3 might be better than 3x5?
2017/06/25 12:13:11
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
skoffs wrote: You know what would be kinda funny?
A Deceiver Bomb using multiple Tesseract Vaults/Obelisks.
"Gotta keep 24" away from all that Tesla... oh. Welp, now he's right on top of me with it."
Probably something more that could be done with the points used on Scarabs, but just figured a bunch of cheap things to go after objectives wouldn't be a bad idea.
Maybe 5x3 might be better than 3x5?
I found scarabs not too unsurvivable. They died to a particularly nasty trygon prime in one round of CC, but otherwise they went relatively unscathed before that, a mawloc and a couple of lictors.
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the looks of the complaints on the FW threads, seems like we get the most out of it. The pylon is suuuuper strong against titans, hard counter to them infact, and one of the cheapest titan weapons.
On top of that, the pylons and ark are amazing! like solid as a rock, if supported by spyder and scarabs they are a potent weapon.
HQ's have very, very good abilities's considering their competition.
Even the rest of the canoptek equipment is good. Only thing thats bad is the Night Shroud
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/25 12:26:22
12,000
2017/06/25 12:40:37
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Actually, for keeping vehicles alive, what would work out better?
Toholk or a Fab.Claw Spyder?
A vehicle only regains 1-3 wounds a turn via Toholk, where as a vehicle next to a Spyder would regain 2-4 a turn (Claw + Living Metal).
Yes, Toholk has other Cryptek buffs he can give out, but they're all infantry buffs. If you're going vehicle heavy that's not going to be as useful.
Yes, you'll need an HQ to fulfill certain requirements, but a Sword-Lord + Spyder w/ Claw and Gloom Prism is the exact same price as just Toholk by himself.
...
Actually, looking at it again, I'm not seeing a point to taking him anymore.
. Point a stalker at the unit you want dead and they're now rerolling 1's. The buffs stack up, but it does eat a lot of the force. Even min with scarabs is 500 points odd for the unit and min. screen. And if you want the same but against elite/shooty armies, then put gauss on them. Ridiculous amount of shots of high quality, cover ignoring gauss. Also 
~4100
~1660
12,000 