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Wait, people still don't accept FW in games?
They know it's 7th edition right?

And before people spout the nonsense of "broken rules" we are in a time of free tanks, strength D on heavy support choices, scatterbikes etc.
FW puts out some reasonable rules compared to the GW crap.
Hence why 30k has been so popular.


As for the sicaran, it seems OP for chaos because it's good.
Not amazing, but good.
Now compared to the hand they were dealt, it's godly.
My advice is take one with the advice suggested and don't look back.

Anyone complaining about FW models needs to put down that 4th edition book and realise it's 7th (nearly 8th)
FW is a part of 40k, like it or not.

I concur entirely. Chaos got some nice stuff from FW. They should be allowed to enjoy it, damn it. Feth me I wish I was that blessed.

Melissa- you just got Celestine resculpted with better rules, that's your update for the next 5 years :p


But seriously, chaos get knocked around with the nerf bat far too often.
When they get something useful they should make use of it.

Even if they spammed sicarans it wouldn't put them near that top bracket so it makes no difference.
Just helps them out a little is all.

 Jackal wrote:
Melissa- you just got Celestine resculpted with better rules, that's your update for the next 5 years :p

I know it's a jest, but don't tempt fate, man!

 rawne2510 wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
Yeah, if it's just the one just do a sorcerer/lord and 10 cultists in an allied detatchment. Iron warriors win out here with the single oblit + a lord to get their FW dakka.

You can´t take an allied detachment of a different legion. The legions don´t work the same as chapter tactics

Wait, what? Can I get a confirmation? What's the restriction that prevents this?

That's never been a thing lol. Legions didn't do anythign to change that. An allied detachment need to be a different faction than your primary detachment. That is the "alllied detachment", just in case you're thinking about double CAD, wich is fine.

 ChazSexington wrote:
I mean, SMs can take it, but they never do and theirs has PotMS.

That isn't correct. The SM version of the Sicaran does not have PotMS.

 Roknar wrote:
That's never been a thing lol. Legions didn't do anythign to change that. An allied detachment need to be a different faction than your primary detachment. That is the "alllied detachment", just in case you're thinking about double CAD, wich is fine.

Ohh, right. I see my confusion. I normally think of "allies" as a generic term, but this applies specifically to the Allies Detatchment Formation. I was thinking the claim was that two Formations of different Legions couldn't be used together.

TBH I've never really looked closely at the Detatchment rules, as I've always just used a single Detatchment and left it at that.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
That's never been a thing lol. Legions didn't do anythign to change that. An allied detachment need to be a different faction than your primary detachment. That is the "alllied detachment", just in case you're thinking about double CAD, wich is fine.

Ohh, right. I see my confusion. I normally think of "allies" as a generic term, but this applies specifically to the Allies Detatchment Formation. I was thinking the claim was that two Formations of different Legions couldn't be used together.

TBH I've never really looked closely at the Detatchment rules, as I've always just used a single Detatchment and left it at that.

Yes, that's a tricky one, and I have had to debate it in YMDC just to get clear on the language. It seems to be harder for CSM players, most of whom have only used CADs since 6th edition. Traitor Legions introduce all these new detachments and it takes some thinking to understand how to play them.

I am to the point where I believe it's better, in most cases, to take a CAD and some formations and leave it at that.

The Black Legion Speartip Formation would be more useful if there was a way to do precision deep strikes. As it stands now, I get most of my units on the board turn one, but they are placed so unfortunately it takes a couple more turns before they can assault.

Just to jump into this, could I take two Sicarans legally in my Chaos list? Got carried away at Salute and bought two but was advised by my regular opponent I can only use one.

 Huron black heart wrote:
Just to jump into this, could I take two Sicarans legally in my Chaos list? Got carried away at Salute and bought two but was advised by my regular opponent I can only use one.

You can use more than one if your detachment includes a "technomancer(?)," which means specific HQ units. I can post them later when I have access to my book or someone may list them before that. I know warpsmith is one, and a sorcerer that rolls on malefic is another I think.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Huron black heart wrote:
Just to jump into this, could I take two Sicarans legally in my Chaos list? Got carried away at Salute and bought two but was advised by my regular opponent I can only use one.

You can use more than one if your detachment includes a "technomancer(?)," which means specific HQ units. I can post them later when I have access to my book or someone may list them before that. I know warpsmith is one, and a sorcerer that rolls on malefic is another I think.

A Warpsmith or a Sorcerer. The Sorcerer is generally considered more points efficient.

Now, the question is: can a Warpsmith / Sorcerer from another detachment satisfy the requirement for the HQ option? I believe the answer is yes, but I've heard it questioned before.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
I mean, SMs can take it, but they never do and theirs has PotMS.

That isn't correct. The SM version of the Sicaran does not have PotMS.

I stand corrected! Very odd - is it the only SM tank without PotMS?

Either way - very rarely see it in 40k SM armies, but staple in CSM armies.

It is kinda odd that Chaos really wants a lot of FW stuff (tanks, rapier batteries, etc.) but you can't use it with any of the new things GW put out (maybe Traitor Legions?). Kind of a weird thing, but makes sense as FW stuff has pretty much never been allowed in a base GW thing; FW should really update saying it can be taken as a choice in XYZ formation.

Wayniac wrote:
It is kinda odd that Chaos really wants a lot of FW stuff (tanks, rapier batteries, etc.) but you can't use it with any of the new things GW put out (maybe Traitor Legions?). Kind of a weird thing, but makes sense as FW stuff has pretty much never been allowed in a base GW thing; FW should really update saying it can be taken as a choice in XYZ formation.

It's not that weird. FW doesn't update things in a particularly timely fashion; there's a legal, playable list in 40k today that's based on the 4th edition Ork Codex.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Huron black heart wrote:
Just to jump into this, could I take two Sicarans legally in my Chaos list? Got carried away at Salute and bought two but was advised by my regular opponent I can only use one.

You can use more than one if your detachment includes a "technomancer(?)," which means specific HQ units. I can post them later when I have access to my book or someone may list them before that. I know warpsmith is one, and a sorcerer that rolls on malefic is another I think.

A Warpsmith or a Sorcerer. The Sorcerer is generally considered more points efficient.

Now, the question is: can a Warpsmith / Sorcerer from another detachment satisfy the requirement for the HQ option? I believe the answer is yes, but I've heard it questioned before.

I believe Abaddon also qualifies as a technomancer.

Also, on chaos wanting so much forgeworld, it's not just about units being better. I feel that csm benefit from forgeworld more than any other faction.
They gave us all these relics from the legion days, which are different from modern astartes gear, so it enhances their identity on the table.
All factions are enriched by FW but none quite like CSM imo. I just feel more like I'm playing veteran legionnaires from way back when than I do with a vanilla land raider or predator.

 koooaei wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
All this happens only because forgeworld is not legal.

Since when? "FW is OP, don't use it" is a pretty outdated attitude these days, most playgroups I've run across don't worry about it.

Op and illegal are totally different qualities. Not being op doesn't make forgeworld less illegal ;P

Go find any recent Imperial Armour book and read the 'Using This Book' section.

Note the following statement.

'As with all our models these should be considered 'official'.'

Something you are not familiar with =/= illegal.

Plz, try to understand. FW is illegal.

It's annoying that Chaos Space Marines can take multiple Sicaran's while Space Marines are limited to one

 koooaei wrote:
Plz, try to understand. FW is illegal.

Hmm. Russian, keeps stating facts that simply aren't true.

Perhaps somehow you are mistaking FW with homosexuality in Russia?

Because then your statement actually makes sense.

Otherwise your attempts to troll are rather hilarious.

As far as i know, homosexuality ain't illegal here. Unlike forgeworld.

I assume he means all the forgeworld in Russia is illegal due to it all being knock-off recasts made from diesel and vodka over there.

Everything's made this way here. But for some reason only forgeworld is illegal. I don't know. It's a mystery. Makes my pet bear sad - he owns a castigator.

I told my chaos buddy he can use it in place of vindicators/predators in formations (for our games). I think he plays a similar agreement with others (or just uses a home brew formation of 1 sicaran with no special rules, that was another suggestion. Sure he could squeeze in an extra CAD somehow, but I just think that is more intrusive to our army building process than just letting him slide it in to the list in other (unofficial) ways.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Yeah, if it's just the one just do a sorcerer/lord and 10 cultists in an allied detatchment. Iron warriors win out here with the single oblit + a lord to get their FW dakka.

Can't take an allied detachment from the same codex as your Primary detahcment, it would have to be a CAD in this case.

ChazSexington wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
I mean, SMs can take it, but they never do and theirs has PotMS.

That isn't correct. The SM version of the Sicaran does not have PotMS.

I stand corrected! Very odd - is it the only SM tank without PotMS?

Either way - very rarely see it in 40k SM armies, but staple in CSM armies.

Barring FW vehicles I'm not aware of, the only SM vehicles that actually have the PotMS rule are the Land Raider variants. The fluff for the rest of the vehicles will often refer to their machine spirits, but they don't have the rule.

Rolsheen wrote:It's annoying that Chaos Space Marines can take multiple Sicaran's while Space Marines are limited to one

Not entirely correct either. Space Marine armies can take multiple units with the Relics of the Armory rule (including Sicarans) if they take a Keeper of Relics character. For vanilla SMs, this is a Master of the Forge. For Blood Angels, it's a Chaplain, for Space Wolves it's a Rune Priest (you'd think an Iron Priest, go figure), and for Dark Angels it's an Interrogator Chaplain. DA players definitely got the best of that deal.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:


Not entirely correct either. Space Marine armies can take multiple units with the Relics of the Armory rule (including Sicarans) if they take a Keeper of Relics character. For vanilla SMs, this is a Master of the Forge.

Except a Master of the Forge is not a valid unit selection in a SM army as it has no unit entry in the Codex or any of the supplements. So vanilla SM are stuck with 1 Relic at the most.

The Chaos Sicaran allows you to take an IA13 gift Perdue Rift Anomaly. This is put on a vehicle and gives your army the Coteaz ability of rerolling the seize the iniative roll or forcing your opponent to reroll theirs. Very nice upgrade.