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Hi there,

So I've always been a fan of the Tzeentch and was thinking about getting back into 40k - Now I've seen a lot of posts around AoS and Tzeentch, but not how they are playing/will play in 40k, let alone how the Start Collecting box looks in terms of playability!

Anyone with more knowledge than me (aka any) with any advice or thoughts on the above

I picked my Change Host up this weekend will be looking to play a purist Tz list.

I'll be following this thread to see any thoughts.

I'd say mono Tzeentch has always been playable. Before Warzone Fenris dropped it was sometimes painful, but the formations and new artefacts go a long way in making them more reliable and as a mono-Tzeentch only player, I'd won pretty much every game I'd played without resorting to a screamer star since it came out (although mostly against newbies but I'm also inexperienced) and that included a nasty SM psyker formation allied with Grey Knights and baby carriers. Wrath of Magnus only made things better, I think, so it should be more than viable in casual settings. I couldn't opine on competitive settings but I think it would do fine, screamer star is pretty infamous cheese.

For the contents of that box? You don't quite yet have a CAD there and as much as possible I think that Tzeentch daemons probably do want to roll in their formations anyway which you'll be further away from. Contents of the box are a little malleable in terms of what you get out of it as you can dissect that chariot kit for a few different load outs. No matter how you cut it you'll be looking at around 450~500 points or less if you skimp in upgrades but I wouldn't recommend. For the full CAD either drop 35 for more pinks or the blue horrors kit which are pretty cost effective for what they do when you buy them but means you won't split until they're dead. For 1k point games you'd be doing good to probably buy just two of them, you'll want bigger stuff but it's probably not nice to bring them in small games (soul grinder, lord of change...). I'm not sure how effective they'd be quite so low at 500 points, most of my 1k point games were Warpflame Hosts and furies which had been pretty effective. Two boxes almost gets you there (1 herald, 2 exalted flamers, 2 flamers, and 2 pink horrors units) but you'd either need a third or tailor your expenses. You'll be hard pressed to cheaply include screamers and chariots outside of a CAD right now so for starting out maybe CAD is best.

I'm going three start collecting boxes, a box of pink horrors to make two units of 20, a lord of change box, the changeling and a box of tzaangor enlighted to play as heralds on discs

The SC Tzeentch box is superior to both the Nurgle and Khorne one. Everything in it is quality. Don't build a flaming chariot though: use the screamers from the chariot with extra bits from the Screamer group so you have 5 screamers. Exalted flamer on foot. Herald on disc. Blue horrors go towards units of blues. Seems now you can never have enough. Lol.

Other than to get the flamer on foot, Herald on disc, why would you advise against the Burning Chariot? It seems like a good thing to summon?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
The SC Tzeentch box is superior to both the Nurgle and Khorne one. Everything in it is quality. Don't build a flaming chariot though: use the screamers from the chariot with extra bits from the Screamer group so you have 5 screamers. Exalted flamer on foot. Herald on disc. Blue horrors go towards units of blues. Seems now you can never have enough. Lol.

Minor notation:

The "Start Collecting" set will have a formation(read: a "prebuilt army list" that is considered the exact same as the old 1 HQ 2 Troops style of thing which is referred to as a "Combined Arms Detachment" now) that requires the Flaming Chariot.

If you want to be able to play everything right out of the box at low point values, without needing to add anything?
Build the Flaming Chariot.

If you're just using the set as a starting point, follow Timetowaste's advice.

 digital-animal wrote:
Other than to get the flamer on foot, Herald on disc, why would you advise against the Burning Chariot? It seems like a good thing to summon?

The chariot is an amazing kit for bits. If you take it apart you get
- Herald on Disc
- Exalted Flamer
- 2 Screamers

The Disc Herald and Screamers will be with you in every Tzeentch army ever.
Summoning the chariot is... like all summoning spells, situational. You need to actually roll up the power, you need to decide that you do need a chariot this turn instead of casting other powers, etc. You'll get more immediate value out of the herald/screamers for now. Once you build up the Magnus/Heralds Anarchic/Screamerstar combo, then you can think about summoning chariots

I'll go against the grain and say build the Burning Chariot. It's not just summon fodder and can be great on its own merit for 100 points. You can now get 3 disc heralds on the cheap thanks to AoS and the screamers from the chariot kit would be a bit janky since they're modelled together while the Exalted flamer on foot needs a bit of thought about how to use him. I've had good success with a trio of burning chariots for my heavy support in mono Tz Daemons as well as using one as an ally to a thousand sons list.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
The SC Tzeentch box is superior to both the Nurgle and Khorne one. Everything in it is quality. Don't build a flaming chariot though: use the screamers from the chariot with extra bits from the Screamer group so you have 5 screamers. Exalted flamer on foot. Herald on disc. Blue horrors go towards units of blues. Seems now you can never have enough. Lol.

Minor notation:

The "Start Collecting" set will have a formation(read: a "prebuilt army list" that is considered the exact same as the old 1 HQ 2 Troops style of thing which is referred to as a "Combined Arms Detachment" now) that requires the Flaming Chariot.

If you want to be able to play everything right out of the box at low point values, without needing to add anything?
Build the Flaming Chariot.

If you're just using the set as a starting point, follow Timetowaste's advice.

The Start Collecting box for Daemons of Tzeentch is a Sigmar box so will have an AoS formation, not a 40k one (as was the case with the Khorne and Nurgle ones)

Sounds like a good plan, I'll most likely get a second "start collecting" box and use the chariot from that while breaking down this one. Does the box included stands and bases for everything?

On another note, I can't find the ruling that prevents pink horrors from generating powers from malefic. I know they generate their powers from change in the new WoM book but how is that line any different than the codex? I don't doubt what I've been told but I would like the reference if someone could share even a page #.

Lastly with chaotic focus you can still generate powers from other trees but you always get the primaris from your chosen discipline, is this correct?