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Primary detachment

Demonic incursion

Daemon Lord
-FateWeaver

Warp Flame Host

lvl1 Herald - Exaulted reward
11 Pink Horrors
11 Pink Horrors
7x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch


Daemon Flock
5x Furries

CSM CAD

Lvl3 Sorcerer - Spell Familiar
11x Cultists
11x Cultists

LOW
Magnus


New to Daemons and really wanting to use my 2 favorite models + I love Exalted flamers. The General Idea here is to use Magnus as a flying spell Ramp - FW is there mostly to provide warpstorm control AND let Magnus cheap-dice as much as possible on his spells and possibly summon some horrors. The Chaos Sorcerer will fish for endurance and if he gets it create a mega death-star of exalted flamers and pink horros moving forward and just eradicating things with 7 ap3 torrent flamers a turn - otherwise I will split them up and play more defensively.

Is this a good way to run this? Or am I making a huge mistake.

I'd recommend putting the E-Flamers with the Furies *if* you get Endurance, just because that will allow you to move farther and keep the unit at T4.
And the Flamers would only be str6 in the formation

Definitely roll FW first just in case he gets Endurance, then the Sorcerer is free to roll somewhere else (Malefic?)

I would make the Cultist 10 & 12 instead of both 11. Gives you 1 extra body for the 1 unit the Sorcerer can join. You could layer the 10-man unit in front of the 12-man unit as a bubble wrap.

 Galef wrote:
I'd recommend putting the E-Flamers with the Furies *if* you get Endurance, just because that will allow you to move farther and keep the unit at T4.
And the Flamers would only be str6 in the formation

Definitely roll FW first just in case he gets Endurance, then the Sorcerer is free to roll somewhere else (Malefic?)

I would make the Cultist 10 & 12 instead of both 11. Gives you 1 extra body for the 1 unit the Sorcerer can join. You could layer the 10-man unit in front of the 12-man unit as a bubble wrap.

I was just saying it would be 7 torrent shots not str 7. Also potentially 21 Las Cannon shots.
Good point about FW. Really important I get endurance with those flamers because it's an amazing offensive and defensive buff for them.

Gotta. Also keep in mind that the "las cannon" shots are also bumped in strength due to the Warpflame bonus.

What is your plan if you don't roll Endurance?

In the event I get endurance from FW - I think I'll roll sinistrum with the CSM sorcerer. Both Death Hex and Warp Fate really benefit the unit of EFs.

IN the event I've failed to get endurance with both psykers going for it. I think I will split 3 EF and 4 EF into the two horror units and try to hold obejctives while Magnus and fatey do as much damage as possible.


Depending on the opponent I could deep strike some EF to hold objectives as well. Really wish it was easier to get endurance :/ - hard to do while fielding magnus at this low points.

I was excited for GW to release the exalted flamer as a separate model but when I saw it was the same price as the chariot i was like what the fudge?

I would love to play a exalted flamer heavy list but just too expensive to do so.

As for your list I like it but as stated on many of these combining FW and Magnus together is too many points. If you make 1ksons your main detachment then there is no warp storm and you don't need FW anymore to free up points (maybe for LOC).

I'd be worried about your fairly low number of Warp Charges - Correct me if my math is wrong, but to my knowledge Magnus gives 5, your Sorcerer gives 3, Fateweaver gives 4, the Herald gives 1, and the Pink Horrors give 2 each... That's only 17 total, right? Considering that your entire army needs Warp Charges in order to function, you're looking like you'll burn out your charges really, really quickly, especially if you're using more expensive powers - Magnus can cast Siphon Magic to help, some, but you're still looking at only getting off 4 or 5 powers.

I know you're struggling for points, but if you could cut out even one or two Exalted Flamers for more Pink Horrors, I think you'd be better off - Aside from being more Warp Charges, they're also much harder to remove than your other charges - Fateweaver has to stand alone, and the Sorcerer just has Cultists as a guard, but the Pink Horrors can't really be reduced until they've been completely killed two or three times, so I think their Warp Charges are a lot more reliable than any others.

As magnus is likely to need only 2 dice per power he will get more than 5 off, especially if the first one is syphon.

 rawne2510 wrote:
As magnus is likely to need only 2 dice per power he will get more than 5 off, especially if the first one is syphon.

This is what I am thinking.

Well yeah, Magnus will be succesful if he only casts ML1 powers, (Unless you are using witchfires or maledictions and your opponent has half-decent psychic defense,) but he's got some more expensive options to go with that - A ML2 power will want at least 3 Warp Charges, and if you want to cast his big-daddy D beam, you're going to want 6 or 7.

The problem with Soul Siphon is that, when you have around 20 Warp Charges on your first turn, and you're spending 2 to cast Soul Siphon, that leaves only 18 Warp Charges - If anyone else is casting powers, they'll need more points - You want Endurance? That'll take at least 4 Warp Charges if you want it to be reliable, even with the Sorcerer casting it - If you want better than 50/50 odds with Fateweaver you'll need to throw 5 dice at it. So you're losing 4 and gaining 1, you've got 15 Warp Charges left. That's going to be barely enough to cast all of Magnus's remaining powers, assuming you're not worried about Deny the Witch, and assuming you want to use his D-beam (And, honestly, if you're not using Magnus' D-beam, you're not properly using his firepower.)

That leaves no points for Summoning, no points for Death Hex or Warp Fate, and no points to spare for improving your odds against Deny the Witch. What do you do if you're facing Grey Knights? Or, heck, Space Wolf Rune Priests, they'll give a bubble of 4+ DTW that'll really put a damper on things.

Buy the herald a Disc and either the IWND or the trickery locus and let him travel with whatever. I usually include a unit of regular flamers for the unit to travel with. I would also think if a daemon prince with Robe he is an asskicker and can fish for endurance

Waaaghpower wrote:
Well yeah, Magnus will be succesful if he only casts ML1 powers, (Unless you are using witchfires or maledictions and your opponent has half-decent psychic defense,) but he's got some more expensive options to go with that - A ML2 power will want at least 3 Warp Charges, and if you want to cast his big-daddy D beam, you're going to want 6 or 7.

The problem with Soul Siphon is that, when you have around 20 Warp Charges on your first turn, and you're spending 2 to cast Soul Siphon, that leaves only 18 Warp Charges - If anyone else is casting powers, they'll need more points - You want Endurance? That'll take at least 4 Warp Charges if you want it to be reliable, even with the Sorcerer casting it - If you want better than 50/50 odds with Fateweaver you'll need to throw 5 dice at it. So you're losing 4 and gaining 1, you've got 15 Warp Charges left. That's going to be barely enough to cast all of Magnus's remaining powers, assuming you're not worried about Deny the Witch, and assuming you want to use his D-beam (And, honestly, if you're not using Magnus' D-beam, you're not properly using his firepower.)

That leaves no points for Summoning, no points for Death Hex or Warp Fate, and no points to spare for improving your odds against Deny the Witch. What do you do if you're facing Grey Knights? Or, heck, Space Wolf Rune Priests, they'll give a bubble of 4+ DTW that'll really put a damper on things.

SW's and GK really don't like str10 ap2 shots Smashing their NDK and TWC. Nor the Plentiful access to D this army has - just saying. Realistically this army is designed to wreck elite armies. A Spacewolf army that has only a few psykers is really going to be angry when the warp storm table turn their Runepreist into a spawn. Or when Magnus gives a a 7 Exalted flamer unit force on its str 6 torrent flamers...just kiss any non invis unit goodbye. You make good points - but it's not like SW or GK hard counter this list - they just might stand a better chance because they have psychic defense.

 Xenomancers wrote:

SW's and GK really don't like str10 ap2 shots Smashing their NDK and TWC. Nor the Plentiful access to D this army has - just saying. Realistically this army is designed to wreck elite armies. A Spacewolf army that has only a few psykers is really going to be angry when the warp storm table turn their Runepreist into a spawn. Or when Magnus gives a a 7 Exalted flamer unit force on its str 6 torrent flamers...just kiss any non invis unit goodbye. You make good points - but it's not like SW or GK hard counter this list - they just might stand a better chance because they have psychic defense.

I'm confused by what you're saying here. A Dreaknight is T8 - S10 doesn't really matter that much, you're still not getting Instant Death. Yes, it's good against TWC, but that's why you add Celestine to the squad, cast Endurance on them with a Rune Priest, or just attach a Wolf Lord with the new Cadia relic that gives Eternal Warrior. (And there's still the 3+ invuln to contend with.)

And what 'Plentiful' D? You've got one D weapon from Magnus that is going to use up more than a third of your Warp Charges in one shot, a single-shot D weapon that'll use four more Warp Charges, and a single-shot D weapon from Fateweaver that will also use up another seven of your Warp Charges. Yeah, Magnus can get multiple hits with the beam, but that's still only three things, and that's going to burn through 18 of your 20 Warp Charges. Your Pink Horrors have a 1/6th chance of getting a single-shot D weapon, same with your Herald, but due to the cost of using those powers, they're not going to get a chance to actually cast those powers, because you're out of Warp Charges before you get to use them.
Even with the incursion bonus, you've still only got a small chance of rolling the Spawn ability, and even if you do roll it, you can't be sure if it's going to hit a Rune Priest that's filling an important slot - Even THEN, it's only a 50/50 shot that they'll fail their Leadership check. You're really assuming you have lucky dice.

As for those Exalted Flamers... How exactly does Magnus give them force? I don't have the rules in front of me, but I'm certain that their weapons don't have the Force special rule, and you can't just give random weapons the Force rule. I also asked a friend who plays with Tzeentch and Exalted Flamers regularly, and he has no idea what you're talking about. Unless we're both missing something that's incredibly major and hard to miss, I'm pretty sure you're either making things up or getting the rules incredibly wrong at this point.

Finally, you seem to have missed my point - No, Space Wolves or Grey Knights are NOT a hard counter to their list. Despite this, things that are extremely common for Space Wolves or Grey Knights are still going to put a massive thorn in your side, because they have things that you simply are not equipped to handle. With a 4+ Deny the Witch and 8-10 Warp Charges, you're either going to need to pump tons of extra charges into your powers to get them off reliably, or you're going to get shut down regularly by an army that isn't even a hard counter to you.

LOL

A dread knight is only T6. So where I agree with you that Xenomancer is wrong that Str 10 is an issue initially but getting enfeeble off will ruin a NDK day.

Force. agree have no idea what he is talking about there but with regards to the last sentence you put in that paragraph I would tarr you with the same brush.

 rawne2510 wrote:
LOL

A dread knight is only T6. So where I agree with you that Xenomancer is wrong that Str 10 is an issue initially but getting enfeeble off will ruin a NDK day.

Force. agree have no idea what he is talking about there but with regards to the last sentence you put in that paragraph I would tarr you with the same brush.

My mistake - went for a refresher on magnus powers he has access to and was just looking at a rumor - magnus can't grant force to a units attacks. It is no matter though. Any death star unit is in serious trouble from magnus and a unit full of exaulted flamers which is the only point I was trying to make. Greyknights was my first army - they are terrible. SW's are great but they are weak to str10 ap2 because it removes their feel no pain rolls.

It does but with a 4+ inv on 50 dogs they don´t really care that much

 rawne2510 wrote:
It does but with a 4+ inv on 50 dogs they don´t really care that much

Ferrensian wolf star is kinda crazy. I never want to face it with any army.

I'm real partial to EFlamers... every game I play my EFlamer does exceedingly well as they saturate the table and create a "threat bubble" with their 18" str10 lascannon shots or the torrent str6 ap3 flamer.

As for your list, you can drop Fatey if you use the new Tzeentch warpstorm table, as it's more forgiving.

Here's a list I've been playing:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
It does but with a 4+ inv on 50 dogs they don´t really care that much

Ferrensian wolf star is kinda crazy. I never want to face it with any army.

Running the masque against them is funny. reduce their movement to D3 then run and hide behind a piece of terrain. It stops the movement which is their biggest effect.

Neither Magnus nor Fateweaver can summon horrors . . . Both have access to summoning exalted flamers or flamer chariots. .

I would recommend buying the start collecting Tzeentch Daemons box. It comes with 1 flaming chariot, 10 horrors, 3 flamers, and 3 screamers.

I bought 3 so to have a full unit of 9 screamers, and 9 flamers.
I have 5 flaming chariots which would me 15 blue horrors, 10 screamers, 5 exalted flamers, 5 heralds, and 5 Disks all with the kits.

Magnus can summon a chariot every turn which can fire an AP3 torrented flamer or D3 lascannons every turn (because it's on a chariot)

9 screamers with 2 heralds on disk is pretty awsome too (using a grimwar). And deep striking flamers with an exalted flamer over cursed earth is also awsome. The exalted flamers base allows you to line up 4 or 5 flamers to all hit the target. Over cursed earth of a banner and no scater.

Fateweaver can use Malific powers so can summon Horrors with primais power