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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




The lone game I played against plaguebearers instead of poxwalkers changed my outlook on poxwalkers immensely. They are trash. Plaguebearers are significantly more difficult to kill, and combined with cloud of flies nearly gave me fits. Poxwalkers are good to sit on objectives out of sight where they’ll be relatively unmolested and their cheap cost doesn’t detract from your main force too much; the problem is cultists do they cheaper. PB have an invulnerable, still have DR, move quicker, have higher T and can still be buffed. Plus they can be summoned. Very versatile for a single point per model increase. They aren’t fearless, but I think morale comes out in the wash when they don’t die fast enough for it to be a huge concern, and in an MSU scenario morale is less of an issue.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, I was really hoping that their ability to regen models would balance it out, particularly with support, but I haven't found that to be working that well tbh. I think plaguebearers are indeed just better.

Combined with plague drones looking solid, My "Deathguard" list keeps having less and less DG in it and more nurgle demons. It's basically cultists, blight crawlers, and mortarion himself right now.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Plaguebearers don't get DG legion trait though so building list can be difficult, as compared to poxwalkers - unless I'm missing something?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




orkswubwub wrote:
Plaguebearers don't get DG legion trait though so building list can be difficult, as compared to poxwalkers - unless I'm missing something?


That's true. Whilst a lot of units don't really benefit from Inexorable advance, having one pure DG detachment is soo good for unlocking the stratagems.

DFTT 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




orkswubwub wrote:
Plaguebearers don't get DG legion trait though so building list can be difficult, as compared to poxwalkers - unless I'm missing something?


You really only need one pure DG detachment to get the stratagems, and we really don't have much that wants the DG tactic. PM and cultists as troops, plus help rites and blightlords in elites. Running a single DG battalion for such units isn't hard, since most of our other units can go wherever, and honestly you shouldn't be running more than a unit or two of anything I mentioned besides cultists.

In really small games with only two detachments it can be an issue if you also want to use Morty, but with three detachments it really isn't an issue.
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




FAQ is up, Death Guard Daemon Princes with wings are now official:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Codex_Death_Guard_ENG.pdf
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




We also got our CT on all helbrutes, which is a big deal for anyone wanting to make the most of it and use FW.

Oh you can include relics from multiple armies when using allies, thanks to the stratagem? I'd been assuming you were locked into whichever set your warlord was from. Doesn't do a ton of my DG, but it's good to know.

Using staratagems across codices if all other requirements are met is also legal, so that's good news. Again, pretty much only useful for a couple stratagemsbut could be very helpful in the future.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/01 18:43:29


 
   
Made in be
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Anyone out there who can give me the pro and cons of using poxwalkers vs plaguebearers.
I can't seem to make up my mind in what to use on screening my 20 Plague Marines.
Some people are pro Poxwalkers and some are Pro Plaguebearers.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tzusam wrote:
Anyone out there who can give me the pro and cons of using poxwalkers vs plaguebearers.
I can't seem to make up my mind in what to use on screening my 20 Plague Marines.
Some people are pro Poxwalkers and some are Pro Plaguebearers.


Poxwalker pros:
Can regenerate models in CC
Have the DG keyword, so easier to fit in detachments and more synergy
Fearless
A bit more dangerous in close combat
Slightly cheaper

Plaguebearer pros:
Dramatically tougher and more point efficient
Faster by default
Can take an instrument to boost speed a bit more

In short, plaguebearers are just flat out statistically better, while poxwalkers have a number of smaller more situational bonuses which might outweigh their generally poor base stats, but requires more planning and support (not typhus though, never typhus).


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Bremon wrote:
Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.


That is how it works yes.

DFTT 
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.


That is how it works yes.


Yep. All units in a detachment need to have the Death Guard keyword in order to use Death Guard stratagems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverAlien wrote:
We also got our CT on all helbrutes, which is a big deal for anyone wanting to make the most of it and use FW.


Definitely have to try out a Leviathan dread with double Butcher cannon arrays + Fire Frenzy sometime

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 19:21:29


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fire Frenzy is still not keyworded.

DFTT 
   
Made in be
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




SilverAlien wrote:
Tzusam wrote:
Anyone out there who can give me the pro and cons of using poxwalkers vs plaguebearers.
I can't seem to make up my mind in what to use on screening my 20 Plague Marines.
Some people are pro Poxwalkers and some are Pro Plaguebearers.


Poxwalker pros:
Can regenerate models in CC
Have the DG keyword, so easier to fit in detachments and more synergy
Fearless
A bit more dangerous in close combat
Slightly cheaper

Plaguebearer pros:
Dramatically tougher and more point efficient
Faster by default
Can take an instrument to boost speed a bit more

In short, plaguebearers are just flat out statistically better, while poxwalkers have a number of smaller more situational bonuses which might outweigh their generally poor base stats, but requires more planning and support (not typhus though, never typhus).



Thanks for the answer.
At the moment i was using poxwalkers and with psychic powers they are pretty durable. I mean str 5 and toughness 5 with typhus they are a hard target. Normal bolter fire wounds them on 5's and hits them on 4's with miasma.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, the issue is look how many points ou are sinking into getting poxwalkers to be as durable as plaguebearers are by default. The 5+ invulnerable and toughness 4 out of the gate is just so much better, it's hard for me to personally justify poxwalkers.

Oh and to the person who asked about keywords/stratagems: a single DG detachment means you can use the stratagems on any qualifying unit, even DG in other non DG detachments. I see that trip people up quite a bit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/01 19:55:26


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Thanks guys, that clears things up for me! Much appreciated!
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Captyn_Bob wrote:
Fire Frenzy is still not keyworded.


Eh, you're right, only vanilla Helbrutes then Guess 32 Butcher cannon shots would've been OP anyways xD
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





Pandabeer wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.


That is how it works yes.


Yep. All units in a detachment need to have the Death Guard keyword in order to use Death Guard stratagems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverAlien wrote:
We also got our CT on all helbrutes, which is a big deal for anyone wanting to make the most of it and use FW.


Definitely have to try out a Leviathan dread with double Butcher cannon arrays + Fire Frenzy sometime


Well, its not difficult to get around this. Run a separate patrol detachment of chaos daemons and you can now have your Plague bearers alongside your deathguard and get the best of both worlds. Run a nurgle flying DP for the lord choice in the patrol detachment, and it will be the same. Flying DP don't rely much on shooting (and their warp bolters are assault weapons anyway). And they also get the DR. So you aren't losing anything. Its not pure deathguard of course. But with everyone running imperium soup (like you see celestine mixed in with assasins, gulliman, etc, etc, running a seperate chaos daemon detachment doesn't seem too unfluffy. Just call it the daemon allies summoned in to helped your deathguard army before the battle and you are good to go. Its probaby still a lot fluffier than imperium soup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pandabeer wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Fire Frenzy is still not keyworded.


Eh, you're right, only vanilla Helbrutes then Guess 32 Butcher cannon shots would've been OP anyways xD


The problem with hellbrutes is that they are fragile. They are even weaker than Rhinos at T7, 8 wounds. And they negate the advantage the other deathguard vehicles bring. If you run crawlers and haulersand bloat drones with DR, and then you suddenly have 2 hellbrutes in the mix as well. Its almost a no brainer for the opponent to target your hellbrutes over your other much harder to kill vehicles first. And efficiency wise, you then lose a lot more points when you hellbrute goes boom.

Consider how much shooting it requires to kill one Crawler (with its over 10 wounds, T8. 5++, and DR), and then consider how much shooting it would take to kill a hellbrute. Yet, both are in the region of 150 points (unless you are running pure shooty helllbrute, but if you are, its still 130 plus points). You opponent can probably take out two hellbrutes for the amount of shooting he needs to kill one crawler. And that's doubles the points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 01:46:26


 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Helbrute is 112 with RAC and ML. Dragged mine out of retirement today and he was first blood real easy. I would really love to find a way to make them work.

In a sense it did what it was supposed to. Distract the opponent for a turn to get rhinos up the board.

   
Made in us
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle





Eldenfirefly wrote:

The problem with hellbrutes is that they are fragile. They are even weaker than Rhinos at T7, 8 wounds. And they negate the advantage the other deathguard vehicles bring. If you run crawlers and haulersand bloat drones with DR, and then you suddenly have 2 hellbrutes in the mix as well. Its almost a no brainer for the opponent to target your hellbrutes over your other much harder to kill vehicles first. And efficiency wise, you then lose a lot more points when you hellbrute goes boom.

Consider how much shooting it requires to kill one Crawler (with its over 10 wounds, T8. 5++, and DR), and then consider how much shooting it would take to kill a hellbrute. Yet, both are in the region of 150 points (unless you are running pure shooty helllbrute, but if you are, its still 130 plus points). You opponent can probably take out two hellbrutes for the amount of shooting he needs to kill one crawler. And that's doubles the points.


I think we can all agree that the Hellbrutes would be much more attractive with Disgustingly Resilient but it still has better damage output then the Blight-hauler. Always hitting on 3's and having a twin lascannon / ML AND having access to a specific dakka stratagem for 5 more points shouldn't be ignored. The biggest argument in favor of the Hellbrute is that the Blight-hauler simply doesn't do enough damage or you need to take 3 to hit on 3's. I don't care if the thing never dies, if it doesn't kill anything it's just as useless IMO because we have other units that absorb fire or act as a distraction better. The problem boils down to Blight-haulers not putting out enough damage and Hellbrutes not having enough survivability; pick your poison. If you need survivability / synergy and have enough dedicated anti tank then take a Blight-hauler, if the opposite is true a Hellbrute with twin Lasconnon and ML isn't a bad choice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 05:46:35


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Alternatively take a plagueburst crawler which has better firepower than the dread and better durability than the hauler, despite being roughly the same price as both.

Has anyone done a comparison on the FW dreadnoughts, now that they all get our CT?


   
Made in us
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle





SilverAlien wrote:
Alternatively take a plagueburst crawler which has better firepower than the dread and better durability than the hauler, despite being roughly the same price as both.

Has anyone done a comparison on the FW dreadnoughts, now that they all get our CT?




I've used 2 in 2 games so far so I haven't had the chance to really test the Crawler enough but my instincts were telling me the same thing. Heavy slugger seems like the obvious choice but I'm not sold on the entropy cannons with a 4+ BS. I like the idea of the plaguespitters being there as a just in case but 34 points is also expensive for just that. Do you or anyone else have any experience with the loadouts of the crawler? I know the tank was discussed earlier but I didn't see much on the actual options.

Also, does it bother anyone else that the Crawler doesn't have access to a havoc launcher? I wouldn't even be sure I would take one if I could but to not even have the option just seems naked since like every other chaos tank can.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Raphael the Raven wrote:
I've used 2 in 2 games so far so I haven't had the chance to really test the Crawler enough but my instincts were telling me the same thing. Heavy slugger seems like the obvious choice but I'm not sold on the entropy cannons with a 4+ BS. I like the idea of the plaguespitters being there as a just in case but 34 points is also expensive for just that. Do you or anyone else have any experience with the loadouts of the crawler? I know the tank was discussed earlier but I didn't see much on the actual options.

Also, does it bother anyone else that the Crawler doesn't have access to a havoc launcher? I wouldn't even be sure I would take one if I could but to not even have the option just seems naked since like every other chaos tank can.


Well the loadout options aren't really very competitive. The entropy cannons and heavy slugger are basically always the correct choice. You really don't want to move the BS 4+ unit, so the 36+ range on every weapon is needed, and you need to get as many shots as possible to compensate for the 4+ anyways.

The BS is an issue on both the mortar and the cannons, but this really is a cheap unit for the number of shots it tosses out, 5-6 on average. You need to take a few to make it reliable, but you can grab three for around 450 points, which isn't bad at all. It only really struggles against toughness 8 compared to a lascannon predator, and is so much more durable.

Personally I prefer the heavy slugger over the havoc launcher, so I'm not overly bothered.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





I hope that you guys are aware that while the Relic Leviathan Dreadnought can take 2 ranged weapon options, the Hellforged One can only take 1 ranged Option and is stuck with at least one Siegeclaw/Drill. So sadly no Dual Butcher Cannon Arrays :(
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
I hope that you guys are aware that while the Relic Leviathan Dreadnought can take 2 ranged weapon options, the Hellforged One can only take 1 ranged Option and is stuck with at least one Siegeclaw/Drill. So sadly no Dual Butcher Cannon Arrays :(


That's been fixed in a faq

DFTT 
   
Made in nl
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Hey guys, so this is my first list; its a walker list, with defilers and helbrutes and then HQs, can't wait to run it.

looking for some advice on what to do with the HQs,are there any better HQs? or what to load them out with, I have like 20 spare points and I can drop some points on the defilers if needed.

Spoiler:

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [27 PL, 521pts] ++

+ HQ +

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: Curse of the Leper, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate

+ Elites +

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [49 PL, 962pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 113pts]: Balesword, Combi-bolter

+ Elites +

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [11 PL, 224pts]: Combi-flamer, Havoc launcher, Twin lascannon

Defiler [11 PL, 214pts]: Combi-flamer, Twin heavy bolter, Twin heavy flamer

++ Total: [76 PL, 1483pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


They’re both very good but the traitor version has a str 8 gun with 36” range and 10 shots, whereas the loyalist version has a str 7 gun with 24” range and 8 shots, plus the traitor version of the heavy flamer is 2 damage, compared to only 1 with the loyalists. They do get a 4++ all the time though, and we only get that in cc (5++ vs shooting)

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Vortenger wrote:
What does the community think about Scabreiathrax as a LoW option? I've read some good reports about the big guy in the Daemon tactica. Granted, he's not Mortarion offensively, but he seems to synnergize with DG fairly well. Tough as nails, buffs Nurgle units, bring Daemon powers to the table without a full detachment, and hits hard enough to one-shot Knights. Thoughts?


Mortarion is a force multiplier like nobodies business.
Scabriethrax is a hammer/anvil all in one.

Scabbie doesn't have the fancy offensive auras, but he is a tier above morty in 1v1 damage output, as well as toughness. The big downside is how slow he is, and summoning him will leave a huge gap in your army. I've had 2 games where I walked him up the middle of the field. Turn 3 charge in both games. Both times charging a unit that was held down by another one of my units. His vomit attack makes people uneasy about charging him, and provides some much needed additional support in CC if someone tries to bog him down. The general consensus at my LGS (as scabbie pops up pretty frequently, never knew so many people had one!) is "It's not worth trying to kill him". He will either soak up so much of your opponents firepower that the rest of your army makes it in, or they will ignore him and try to run and play objectives.

While scabbie has the damage to down a knight with ease (dude doesn't need Dttfe) I feel like for DG, morty is the better LoW. His mortal wound aura is insanely powerful, and there is a lot more support available with stratagems and deathshrouds. Running scabbie +30PB is a solid tactic. Always keep the PB chained back to scabbie so they are -2 to be hit in CC and spread the unit out to grab as much as you can in CC. If they hit CC, they wont budge. So the opponent now has 2 units they will need to deal with.

   
Made in nl
Stealthy Grot Snipa





 luke1705 wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.


Why doesn't that stratagem work with the FW stuff? They have the helbrute keyword and use the helbrute datasheet, the only variance is the additional weapon load out? Or am I missing something?

Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

 
   
 
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