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Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





of course termies work but cost 310pts, for 80 more i can put down 6 oblys who can fire twice when needed.

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Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.

   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


Played an interesting match yesterday, somewhere near 800 pts of Death Guard vs. a rag-tag Ad Mech. Open war cards in use, the mission was to find which of the six markers was the actual objective while flaming debris was falling from orbit. The list had 3x 10 Cultists, a termie Lord, Plaguecaster, Typhus and 2x Drones with fleshmowers. Ad Mech made the mistake of deploying the Kastellan killerbots on the flank, from where they had to leg it up the table when our spread out Cultists ran to take all the objectives and dug for the prize. Cultists found the objective and dug in to weather the storm while everything else maneuvered to take defensive positions to slow the enemy and prevent them from getting near the goal. Drones flew to tackle infiltrators and explode all around while the termie lords distracted the enemy's infantry long enough that they were unable to actually get anywhere important in time. Won by finally throwing all the bodies at the Kastellans and preventing them from shooting the Cultists holding the objective.

Boots on the ground are important in small games, as are the fast fliers that can answer all sorts of problems popping up.

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Made in fi
Water-Caste Negotiator





 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.

-Heresy grows from idleness- 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






 Fueli wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.


I know, but for some reason others don't agree.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte



Seattle, WA

@Jidmah and Aelyn: You seem to be mostly correct. The dataslate was updated in CSM but access to that dataslate was not revoked. The index p. 57 gives us access to Daemon Princes with the DG keyword. The flowchart GW helpfully provided us tells us to use the codex version instead. Cool. So we then get the updated CSM Daemon Prince in addition to the Prince of Nurgle. Is it intended? Who knows, but that seems the way it was written. There could be something in there I don't get, but it seems clear to me.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Vortenger wrote:
@Jidmah and Aelyn: You seem to be mostly correct. The dataslate was updated in CSM but access to that dataslate was not revoked. The index p. 57 gives us access to Daemon Princes with the DG keyword. The flowchart GW helpfully provided us tells us to use the codex version instead. Cool. So we then get the updated CSM Daemon Prince in addition to the Prince of Nurgle. Is it intended? Who knows, but that seems the way it was written. There could be something in there I don't get, but it seems clear to me.


Nope, sorry.

Let's have a look at the chart:


Your model is a daemon prince.
Does it have a datasheet in a codex?
=> Yes! In Codex:CSM
Are there wargear options for your model, that only appear in the index version of the datasheet?
=> Well, I guess you could use the warp-bolter to claim no.
=> Use the Codex version of your datasheet, but you can use the index version for its wargear options.

So, warpbolter or no, Daemon Princes cannot chose "Deathguard" as their Legion, since the codex containing the datasheet explicitly forbids that. Legions are not wargear, but keywords.
You can have a nurgle-aligned daemon prince casting prescience or warptime (and a warp bolter), but it can't be Deathguard.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte



Seattle, WA

Correct, and the Daemon Prince is in turn given explicit permission to take the keyword in a previous publication. It is unique, as no other dataslate from the early Heretic Astartes line-up has such a precedent. Even with the DG notes on p. 116 of the CSM codex, I fail to see why the exception given in the index does not still apply. Order of operations would be to: use the index to select the Prince. Flowchart the dataslate to the CSM codex entry which would normally be disallowed per codex. Apply exception from index. Field unit with the DG legion keyword. Miss having DR while firing your pea shooter. This rules interaction between the two books would prevent such abuses as DG keyword Oblits or Heldrakes but allows for DG Daemon Princes. This interpretation still meets all criteria on that flowchart, does it not?

Regardless of rules ambiguity, I think we can agree mono DG still can use palanquin sorcerers and therefore still has easy access to warptime and prescience. Adding an Alpha Legion detachment is likely a more competitive choice with wider unit and stratagem access, but the point remains we can still use Hereticus powers without allies. For now.


 
   
Made in ar
Been Around the Block




Hey guys, I have a 550pts tourney this weekend and I'm torn between three options:

All armies have to be a Patrol Dettachment

List 1:
Plaguecaster

5 PM w/2 Blight Launchers and Plasma on Champion

14 Poxwalkers

Foul Blightspawn

Drone w/ Plaguespitters


List 2:
Plaguecaster

20 Poxwalkers

2x Drone w/ Plaguespitters


List 3:
Plaguecaster

11 Poxwalkers
10 Poxwalkers

Plagueburst Crawler w/ Entropy Cannons
Drone w/ Plaguespitters

(I could switch some Poxwalkers for cultists, but I only have melee cultists which I don't really like)

Which one do you think could work best? I know there are gonna be at least 2 AM armies, 2 SW (one with a Stormwolf), 2 AdMech and 2 Orkz. Don't know about the rest
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I like your first list best for the tournament.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So I can still use my Death Guard Lord with Jump Pack? Nice. Is that rule clarification in the codices or from website in case I need it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 19:55:19


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Vortenger wrote:
Correct, and the Daemon Prince is in turn given explicit permission to take the keyword in a previous publication. It is unique, as no other dataslate from the early Heretic Astartes line-up has such a precedent. Even with the DG notes on p. 116 of the CSM codex, I fail to see why the exception given in the index does not still apply. Order of operations would be to: use the index to select the Prince. Flowchart the dataslate to the CSM codex entry which would normally be disallowed per codex. Apply exception from index. Field unit with the DG legion keyword. Miss having DR while firing your pea shooter. This rules interaction between the two books would prevent such abuses as DG keyword Oblits or Heldrakes but allows for DG Daemon Princes. This interpretation still meets all criteria on that flowchart, does it not?

It does not.

You have no permission to use index data sheet for any reason but additional wargear choices. A full list of wargear can be found on pages 122-125 of the index. "Deathguard" is not on the list for obvious reasons.
You are also explicitly forbidden from using any of the Deathguard army rules in the index, as the codex has superseded them

For all datasheets from the index that are in Codex: CSM and not in Codex: Deathguard this means that you cannot take them with the Deathguard keyword (these are surprisingly few).

The intention behind this is also clear: The flowchart guarantees that all models that you have built are still usable after the codex was released. Nothing prevents you from fielding your Daemon Prince, you just can't have both Hertic Astartes powers and the Deathguard keyword.

If you want further clarity on this, I suggest taking it to the YMDC forum.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 21:51:47


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

What Psychic abilities is everyone taking for their DG sorcerer's? I feel like we should take one offensive, and one defensive skill. I'll have my first game in the coming weeks, looking at 1500 pts, and I tend to have at least 2 sorcerers in every list

Edit: Couple followup questions; 1) Why does everyone suggest tons of blightcasters? What am I missing that makes them so good? 2) Why would you take an Arch Contaminator for Plagueburst Crawlers? Entropy cannons are not plague weapons, so the only weapon you get to reroll is the mortar... unless this was FAQ'd?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 22:24:26


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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





I use powers to buff Pox Walkers, usually with Typhus. Vitality and Blades of Putrefaction on Typhus, and if I bring a Caster, gift and plague wind.

Miasma is a better power on the Daemon Prince that I usually run. I can get away with just Blades and Vitality with Typhus, so I haven't needed the Caster lately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the idea for Caster spam was smite plus the additional mortal wound from the fallout. The couple extra points for T5, fnp, and staff is worth it over a vanilla nurgle Sorcerer. He is pretty much the cheapest Out of the Box HQ choice for multiple battalions. Also deny the witch from multiple sources is helpful at times.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/19 01:38:28


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 gwarsh41 wrote:
 Fueli wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.


I know, but for some reason others don't agree.


Well then show them the big rule book, where it specifically states the intention of the game size to be a 4x4 board when playing 100-1000 points.
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




 gwarsh41 wrote:
 Fueli wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.


I know, but for some reason others don't agree.


I'm sure some players/armies would prefer to fight you on a 8' by 8' table to given the chance. Doesn't mean you should let them make up the rules.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Little bit too much focus on the table size, I did say, "if". It will be a league, and like ITC, sometimes there are rules adjustments. It's not a big deal to me. Even on a 4x4, speed will be very important. One of the rules is that you cannot change your list until the point level increases. So whatever I run at 500, has to work against all armies. I have no idea what the objectives will be, but here is what I am planning on bringing.

Malefic Talons winged DP with miasma and Plate
10 autogun cultists
6 Plague Marines, 2 have Blight launchers
Bloat drone with spitters

500pt exactly.

Talons DP should be able to deal with anything from vehicles to hordes, especially if the bloat drone provides a screen for him. Those two will hopefully do enough heavy lifting, and be enough of a thread that the cultists can objective hunt, as well as act as a deep strike counter. Plague marines move up the field for objectives, while providing fire support where needed, blight launchers. I didn't realize until making this list that cultists should get inexorable advance, making them just a little bit more threatening.

My plans for the league are to run infantry heavy lists, but with extra points for how well your army is painted, I am starting off with a lower model count. I'll be attempting poxwalker and Plague marine hordes (I know plague marines are generally better MSU).


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/19 14:22:30


   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





lately im looking mixed demons and Dg lists having epidemius+pb and nurgle oblyts, is that really worth?

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so I am thinking about getting a box of blightlord terminators. I am fairly new to death guard myself but basically all my lists are targetting a competitive approach. I play a lot of tournaments (up until now with AdMech) and I try to place as well as possible but on the other hand I do my very best to stay mono faction. And now its DG/nurgle time. I heard a lot about those terminators and i love the models. still i am not quite sure about them. why should i field them? what are they doing better than lets say another DP or Bloat Drone? how should i field them (combi plas or special CC weapons all around or just plain and cheap)? I know this depends on the rest of the list but for me 5 dudes with bolters are not screaming "I am the I win button!". Input would be greatly appreciated.
Puls: are there any DG lists that have won tournaments so far? cause Id like to know

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/21 10:05:23


 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





i didn't see any pure Dg list win tournaments, most are mixed Dg+chaos or demons
About blightlords: i played them couple of times, they are durable and hard hitters main problem is without plasma if you dont have a sorcerer with warptime you risk to fail a charge then the opponent have all the time to deal with them, they best suits in aggressive lists with drones and Mortarion for example. Personally if you like to go mixed armies obliterators are far superior.

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Dakka Veteran




 blackmage wrote:
i didn't see any pure Dg list win tournaments, most are mixed Dg+chaos or demons
About blightlords: i played them couple of times, they are durable and hard hitters main problem is without plasma if you dont have a sorcerer with warptime you risk to fail a charge then the opponent have all the time to deal with them, they best suits in aggressive lists with drones and Mortarion for example. Personally if you like to go mixed armies obliterators are far superior.

Well I like the aggressive approach. I usually play 2 Drones plus morty and a DP and either a couple of Plague Marine units or cultist/poxwalker shennanigans in the back. I tend to not play Plague Burst Crawlers.
Okay, lets stay with the agressive approach a little bit. so you say either take them plain and with a warptime sorcerer or take them with plasma? how are they doing in CC by the way? I mean for 225 pts base costs they dont look too heavy hitting on paper. but I have no experience, therefore the question.
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





well... in CaC with blade of putrefaction and if needed votlw stratagem they really hit hard, +2 to wound and each 5+ is a mortal wound with their plague weapons, if you have a viable way to send them in CaC the turn they drop you can keep them cheap (i just gave the champion a melta gun), if you have not i suggest use plasma at least if they cant charge something valuable they can keep shooting plasma.

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Dakka Veteran




I remember a rather successful list at wsrzone atlanta with 10 combiplas termies and some alpha legion. But i feel that would be a one trick pony like the grenade blob.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Question for all of you regarding the cloud of flies stratagem.

The stratagem reads that enemy models can only shoot this unit if it's the closest visible unit. Does this apply only to shooting phase or overwatch as well?

I know under the character rules it specifies that they can only be targeted if they are the closest unit in the shooting phase. But the stratagem doesn't specify a certain phase.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

What about Two terminator sorcerers (one CSM, one DG) buffing the Blightlords, then warp timing them putting you into easy charging range?

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Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





usually i have a csm sorcerer for warp time and Dp with blades for the blightlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what do you think about this list? worth taking epidemius?


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [34 PL, 584pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Nurgle

Epidemius [5 PL, 100pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 196pts]: 27x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 552pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind

++ Total: [111 PL, 1996pts] ++

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/22 10:43:08


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 blackmage wrote:
usually i have a csm sorcerer for warp time and Dp with blades for the blightlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what do you think about this list? worth taking epidemius?


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [34 PL, 584pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Nurgle

Epidemius [5 PL, 100pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 196pts]: 27x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 552pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind

++ Total: [111 PL, 1996pts] ++



Looks like very strong list to me. However it's hardly DG list, sure there is Morty and drones but for it's like Demon list. You gonna beat ton of people with it i assume , but it's not DG list for me - Nurgle Demons - yes.
   
Made in us
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Hunting with the 13th

mario88826 wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
usually i have a csm sorcerer for warp time and Dp with blades for the blightlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what do you think about this list? worth taking epidemius?
Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [34 PL, 584pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Nurgle

Epidemius [5 PL, 100pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 196pts]: 27x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 552pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind

++ Total: [111 PL, 1996pts] ++



Looks like very strong list to me. However it's hardly DG list, sure there is Morty and drones but for it's like Demon list. You gonna beat ton of people with it i assume , but it's not DG list for me - Nurgle Demons - yes.


It's definitely worth taking Epidemius, as he buffs literally everything in that army. I would prefer another unit of Oblits, but there is no way to squeeze it in the mix, IMO. If you can somehow boost the tally up to 2 before they drop in, those 1's won't be quite as painful.

The majority of your points is DG, so I would also consider it a DG army, FWIW.

-----==---------==-----
 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





im still not sure about Mortarion, against strong top lists he dies quickly usually doing almost nothing. Dont know what i can squeeze in, i f i take out him.

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Regular Dakkanaut





Hunting with the 13th

 blackmage wrote:
im still not sure about Mortarion, against strong top lists he dies quickly usually doing almost nothing. Dont know what i can squeeze in, i f i take out him.

Two more units of Oblits, and a Herald for back-end support and/or healing Epidemius.

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