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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Southern California

Yeah if he had a lords reroll aura I would actually use him
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





You could do worse. There is no reason for me to field my Lightning Claw Terminator lord in a Death Guard list anymore when he gets zero Death Guard buffs and a balesword is cheaper.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Just to revisit the PBC spam issue, the previous poster referring to it as "not competitive" may need to rethink things some. Looks like that list went 5-1 at LVO, losing in the first round to an eldar army. I'm surprised similar lists weren't more popular, and I'm also confused how the eldar player won, as his list doesn't seem very well suited to deal with the PBCs. I skimmed through the rest of the entries and didn't see more than that one PBC spam list, which is baffling to me. I did notice a bloat drone spam list that finished in the middle of the pack. Interesting stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/28 15:53:30


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





MilkmanAl wrote:
Just to revisit the PBC spam issue, the previous poster referring to it as "not competitive" may need to rethink things some. Looks like that list went 5-1 at LVO, losing in the first round to an eldar army. I'm surprised similar lists weren't more popular, and I'm also confused how the eldar player won, as his list doesn't seem very well suited to deal with the PBCs. I skimmed through the rest of the entries and didn't see more than that one PBC spam list, which is baffling to me. I did notice a bloat drone spam list that finished in the middle of the pack. Interesting stuff.


Because I'm using the proper definition of the word competitive, as in competition and playing a game. Rather than the 40k try-hard definition where competitive means printing off a cheesy broken net list and then going into auto-pilot with no tactics or actual competition in the match needed. Might as well just compare lists, declare a victor and call it a day. I prefer to actually play a game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/28 17:14:31


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hmmm...last I checked, competition involved doing your best to win/succeed. This guy was also the only one at a highly-competitive tournament running that list, so i'm not seeing how your argument about printing off some "netlist" holds. I'm sorry the fact that his army is dedicated to being rock-hard and bashing heads instead of fluffy and diverse bothers you, but that's what tournaments are about. No need to get upset about it. Just go play with friends or something.

If you're not trying to win, you don't really need a tactics thread, now do you? Maybe this isn't the right place for an anti-tournament crusade?

Anyone else have thoughts on the LVO outcomes?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd like a look at the list, can't for the life of me find it anywhere online.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




PBC spam https://imgur.com/gallery/JD6tK
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






According to this link, you can get it from an app:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/01/21/a-guide-to-media-coverage-of-the-2018-las-vegas-open/

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

If you were there make a DG list that focuses on mortal wound generation what would be your must haves?

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






He got 13th looks like, was an anti meta list I guess? Did good against dark reapers, then fell apart when it hit one of the imperial lists if I'm reading chain of events right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 buddha wrote:
If you were there make a DG list that focuses on mortal wound generation what would be your must haves?


The new sorcerer, anything that could cast smite, and I think we had a relic that did this. Plus the generic stratagem and maybe the one that turns daemon engines into suicide bombs?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/29 02:23:26


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




MilkmanAl wrote:
Hmmm...last I checked, competition involved doing your best to win/succeed. This guy was also the only one at a highly-competitive tournament running that list, so i'm not seeing how your argument about printing off some "netlist" holds. I'm sorry the fact that his army is dedicated to being rock-hard and bashing heads instead of fluffy and diverse bothers you, but that's what tournaments are about. No need to get upset about it. Just go play with friends or something.

If you're not trying to win, you don't really need a tactics thread, now do you? Maybe this isn't the right place for an anti-tournament crusade?

Anyone else have thoughts on the LVO outcomes?


I'm not convinced "that's what tournaments are about" my suspicion is only a relatively small % of the attendees of that tournament would consider running such a list.
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




This thread has a plain divide between 'FLGS competitive' and 'ITC top table competitive' it seems.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, that's because something like lvo has its own meta, whose discussion isn't really that useful or relevant for most players.

When you can reasonably expect the majority of other players to have variations on 1-2 lists, building counter lists is very viable. For example, this tournament appears to have been melee marines with guard buddies and ynarri+altioc reaper spam.

Plus, I highly doubt anyone at lvo comes here for advice.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Competitive is what wins, period. Not some bull about fluff or meta. Look at the facts, dude took pbc spam to one of the most well known tourney's around and went 5-1 for 13th place. That is 100% competetive, unless you beat him and not just some random guy at an flgs who doesn't know how to pilot it, noone can say otherwise.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ecdain wrote:
Competitive is what wins, period. Not some bull about fluff or meta. Look at the facts, dude took pbc spam to one of the most well known tourney's around and went 5-1 for 13th place. That is 100% competetive, unless you beat him and not just some random guy at an flgs who doesn't know how to pilot it, noone can say otherwise.


Again that's... not really how this works. One or two anti meta builds generally get in because it's all down to who you fight early, as later on the dominant armies are generally easy to predict. Also, it's got four units in it, most people can pilot it. I'm sorry but let's not kid ourselves.

Yes we can take some knowledge from this, that PBCs are really underpriced for their durability and make for rather hilarious jack of all trades vehicles when taken in mass. But this list worked in a very specific closed environment, one where all the PBC's strengths happened to be leveraged.
   
Made in ru
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior




Moscow

 buddha wrote:
If you were there make a DG list that focuses on mortal wound generation what would be your must haves?

clearly smth with high yield and spammable... smite is the first thing to consider - I'd go for plaguecasters and maybe add a pure daemons detachment for cheaper herolds and alternative powers to get more outcoming casts... then, plague marines buffed by biologus - spammable, very hign mortal wounds output...
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






If spamming to the infinity is a definition of competitivity, than we are playing different games.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Emicrania wrote:
If spamming to the infinity is a definition of competitivity, than we are playing different games.


Our definitions do not matter, what wins is all that defines competitiveness. If you FEEL that lists shouldn't be so spammy, that's a personal opinion and I respect that, but that does not change what people win competitions with.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Emicrania wrote:
If spamming to the infinity is a definition of competitivity, than we are playing different games.


Spam is usually a symptom of bad internal balance meeting competitive gaming.

It's pretty much the same in any strategy game that has ever tried to balance their game - competitive players will play whatever is the most powerful, unless mixing armies is the most powerful way to play, spam will continue to happen.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ran a spearhead(?) detachment of PBC at LVO with spewers. Definitely my MVP of the entire tournament.

Just to highlight PBC list may lose for a variety of reasons in an ITC scoring setting even if it wasn't going to be "tabled." Almost all games ended after 3 and probably max of 4 turns.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

orkswubwub wrote:
Ran a spearhead(?) detachment of PBC at LVO with spewers. Definitely my MVP of the entire tournament.

Just to highlight PBC list may lose for a variety of reasons in an ITC scoring setting even if it wasn't going to be "tabled." Almost all games ended after 3 and probably max of 4 turns.


How did you avoid them getting tarpitted?

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 buddha wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
Ran a spearhead(?) detachment of PBC at LVO with spewers. Definitely my MVP of the entire tournament.

Just to highlight PBC list may lose for a variety of reasons in an ITC scoring setting even if it wasn't going to be "tabled." Almost all games ended after 3 and probably max of 4 turns.


How did you avoid them getting tarpitted?


It isn't so hard if you know the movement and advance of enemy troop units. 3 PBC is only 140x3 of my force in points (circa - from memory atm) so even if they tarpit one crawler it really isn't a huge deal. I did get tarpitted really badly 1 game against crazy poxwalker list but otherwise a bloodletter bomb was enough to dissuade most people from trying to run in real quick. Deepstrikers are obvious so you know when and when "not" to put PBC in front (block with troops etc.). Playing against a recon oriented IG list for example went really well as the flamers just chewed up the units as he tried to advance to the different corners.

Another game - Played against IG player who went top 30 in the champs tourny in a causal 2v2 the next day and PBC was again MVP that game in zoning and ensuring Death by a thousand cuts. You just throw them up the board and dare them to shoot - any action against it is really rewarding as all the damage is just wasted. Even better if people think BGH will work.
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Tucson, Arizona

From what I understood the only real reason he lost game one was because he had super cold dice. I heard he couldn't roll over a two to save his life. He very well could have easily gone 6-0. At the end of the day, everyone's definition of what competitive is/should be is their own opinion. Unfortunately I do think that GW may look into nerfing the PBC one way or the other which sucks for most DG players who only run 1-3.

-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

People are crying about the PBC but really it's not good unless you're like that guy and take a ton of them, in which case I would argue the problem is being able to take a ton of them, not the unit itself. I find them pretty lackluster.

In fact, going off on that tangent, I find most of the DG anti-tank/armor options lackluster. I've tried 1 PBC and 3 Blight-Haulers, and it doesn't seem like enough. Seriously tempted to be "that guy" and get a Leviathan or two.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in ar
Been Around the Block




That's because Blight Haulers don't really have much damage output

I've been doing well with 2 cannon PBCs, 2 squads of marines with 3 weapons each and a Blightspawn.

The times they weren't enough were either due to me making mistakes or having a really bad rolls
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Maybe you guys could help,
I just bought some new DG/chaos models to alter my DG.
I got a PBC, MBH, 5x BL termies and a termie sorcerer.

I'm planning on making a patrol detachment (best?) to get warp time for my Nurgle DP or just boost my blightlord termies. Any suggestions for chapter? combi-melta, why not?

Termies I'm planning to not magnetize and I'll make one guy with the flail and three with axes and combi-bolters, but for the champion? combi-melta & axe? Would have some synergy with the sorcerer if it also takes the combi-melta.. Or better kit selection, only got one box of termies..

PBC seem that I can magnetize the spitter vs. entropy..

I'm not planning on getting any more DG models for a while so I want to do these right the first time, so if you guys could give pointers if I'm doing it all wrong.

Thanks. All these mini's will be facing the DA&BA list in the army list section in a test game before I face the RG list in a month. I'll probably throw another batrep for you with those.. Last game wasn't so good for the DG, unless you count the "sequel" part
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Kzraahk wrote:
That's because Blight Haulers don't really have much damage output

I've been doing well with 2 cannon PBCs, 2 squads of marines with 3 weapons each and a Blightspawn.

The times they weren't enough were either due to me making mistakes or having a really bad rolls


Eh, when you think about it, the hauler has two anti-tank weapons that do d6 damage. That's basically two entropy cannons on a PBC, a twin lascannon on a hellbrute or a predator annihilator without sponsons. All those options are roughly as expensive as the hauler and have more to offer.

In my experience the hauler is a jack of all trades, it does some damage to vehicles, kills some elite infantry, is good at tying down combat units with -2 to hit, provides some minor buffs to infantry etc. You get a mixed bag of stuff that's pretty much worth the points, but it doesn't actually excel at anything it does - and you'll only get your points worth if you use as much of it as possible, which I have found to be difficult as many of its skills are exclusive to others. Can't move fast and buff infantry, can't shoot and tie down units in combat, can't screen units and get into melta range at the same time.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in ar
Been Around the Block




Yes, but you can get a PBC for roughly the same price. Different roles I know, but Crawlers can stand more than an enemy shooting phase
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Nightlord1987 wrote:
You could do worse. There is no reason for me to field my Lightning Claw Terminator lord in a Death Guard list anymore when he gets zero Death Guard buffs and a balesword is cheaper.


Yup, same situation, lovingly converted LC Terminator Lord now rides as a 'counts as' unit exclusively.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




i have a question, typically how many extra poxwalkers should I have on hand if I want to build a poxwalker list with a cultist Fodder? An extra poxwalker for each cultist?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/02 21:54:45


 
   
 
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