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Wraithguard is in, Scorp is out.

Top one I say only the bike is out as the is no "footprint", only the ruin.

Second pic you actually have created a footprint for the terrain, thus the guardians are now in cover.

To other posters, the rules inquiry is directed to the BAO organizers, thus why I posted it here, and not YMDC.

So, it's Reece's piece of pie.

The PL limit should be 33+ as the 31-32 pl units aren't difficult to deal with. It's beyond that point you get into titans and space marine super heavy tanks that are ridiculously powerful.

Fortifications are in yes?

Here's another question in regard to the KP mission: if a unit worth let's say 10PL splits into 2 different unit (combat squad, squadron of vehicles, artillery+crew, etc...), how much PL do they each award ?
5 each ? This kills the basic concept of the KP mission since killing both will grant you as much as killing one (10PL either way) whereas in a basic KP mission you would get twice as much as killing one (2KP vs 1KP if no split).
10 each ? This can create some quasi auto-lose situations (see below)

Here's an example of auto-lose: a friend of mine plays squads of 5 mek guns. They each comes with a crew of 5 grots and after deployement each gun and each grot crew splits and become their own unit.
The PL cost of the unit is 3 for the initial gun/crew, and +2PL for each additional. So total unit is worth 11PL and splits into 10 different units (5 guns and 5 crew of 5 grots) after being deployed.
If each of those units awards the total amount of PL initially paid for the unit, then killing say 4 grot crew would be worth a wooping 44PL. That's a bit extreme.
I know in a regular KP mission it is also extreme since each grot crew is worth 1KP, but with the change from KP to PL, the balance seems to be a lot worse cause 44PL will usually represent way more than 4 units.

There's an easy fix for my friend: instead of paying a unit of 5 guns he can pay 5 units of 1 guns, each gun/crew being now worth only 3PL each. But that only works if he knows in advance how KP/PL are handled for splitting units.

But what about Lord of skulls? Is that really so ridiculously powerful it shouldn't be allowed? >_<

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of communication was swamped with LVO prep.

The ruins verbiage was cleaned up: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/bay-area-open-2017/

@Eldenfirefly

Khoren Mower wasn't the target or what was causing the concern. The concern was other models--mostly Forge World--causing the issues. This was an easy short term solution for the BAO.

And are you coming to the event? Location says you are in Singapore?

@Rabbitmaster

The entire unit (crew and gun) must be destroyed to get the PL KP. Simple.

Same for Combat Squading (although does anyone do this any more?), you have 2, 5 man units of Marines now. Simple.

@Thread

Any other questions?

Excited to see everyone!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Further Clarification on the ruins issue:

Ruins: For this event, the bottom level walls of all ruins are considered to block LoS even if they do not actually do so. This means existing openings in them such as those created by windows, doors, bullet holes, etc. block LoS. This rule does not mean the players create walls where none existed. If in doubt as to where to define these barriers, clarify with your opponent before the game begins.

 Reecius wrote:
@Rabbitmaster

The entire unit (crew and gun) must be destroyed to get the PL KP. Simple.

Same for Combat Squading (although does anyone do this any more?), you have 2, 5 man units of Marines now. Simple.

Sounds simple. Let see if I got it right with a couple example then.

Take a 10 man tactical squad that is worth 9PL (5 for the initial unit, +4 for the 5 additional marines, cf index). My opponent combat squad it up in two 5-man units:
- I kill one of the two units => no PL earned.
- I kill both units => 9PL earned.

Same for a unit of 2 mekgun and 2 5-man grot crew that is worth 5PL (3 for initial gun+crew and 2 for the additional gun+crew). After deployment they become 4 distinct units (as per their special deployment rules):
- Killing 2 mekgun and 1 grot crew (3 units killed in total) => no PL earned.
- Killing all 4 units => 5PL earned.

Did I got that right ? If yes then it ironically makes splitting units very good in the KP mission (it's harder to get their PL value whereas before each sub-unit would contribute to the mission)
We ended up playing it intuitively with each subunit granting the base PL cost of the unit (ie the two 5-man tactical squad would each be worth 5PL, and each gun+crew would be worth 3PL). It slightly inflate the PL gained compared to a non-split unit, but so did the KP mission in the first place so it wasn't shocking or anything.



Anyway, thanks for updating the ruins wording ! Makes it pretty clear now

Example 1

Kill either unit, you get 5PL, treat it as 2 units of 5 Marines. (Although again, is anyone actually using Combat Squads?)

The Guns and Crew would be 1 unit each (I know Mek Gunz are sort of the exception to the rule) but the gun and crew=1 unit, so 3PL per Gun/Unit team.

Perhaps not so simple after all, lol.

Got it. Our initial intuition was in line with your ruling then =)

I think providing a couple example in the mission sheet will help dissipate any confusion.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And who knows, maybe with the incoming codex SM will combat squad again.

Next weekend!!!! Very excited.

 Reecius wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for the lack of communication was swamped with LVO prep.

The ruins verbiage was cleaned up: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/bay-area-open-2017/

Further Clarification on the ruins issue:

Ruins: For this event, the bottom level walls of all ruins are considered to block LoS even if they do not actually do so. This means existing openings in them such as those created by windows, doors, bullet holes, etc. block LoS. This rule does not mean the players create walls where none existed. If in doubt as to where to define these barriers, clarify with your opponent before the game begins.

Thanks for the reply.

At the least, it saves me and my opponent a few minutes each, discussing terrain next weekend.

At best, it saves everyone the discussion.

Thank you, Reece.

One last piece as I played there last night - but the ruin pieces will have a footprint, yes?

Not the haphazard misc wall piece which the models clearly stand over providing cover?

Results from Index only

Imperial Guard
Imperial Guard
Space Marine
Tau
Ynarri
Chaos
Genestealer Cult
Dark Angels
Imperial Guard
Imperial Guard

Good times had by all - though the back room got a bit heated figuratively and literally.

Congrats to all!

Are the top 10 lists available?

You can see them on the Best Coast Pairings AP

 Crimson Devil wrote:
You can see them on the Best Coast Pairings AP

Sweet, not.

They did a video with the winning IG player, who had conscripts but not how people think.

He took 4x 30 man blobs and used them to soak up the alpha strike from his opponents so his Tempetus Beta strike could delete them off map.

What is worrisome is that folks are not planning properly for their dice and not making it through at least 3 full turns a player

How was non infantry assualting intantry units up levels of ruins handled?

Rickels wrote:
They did a video with the winning IG player, who had conscripts but not how people think.

He took 4x 30 man blobs and used them to soak up the alpha strike from his opponents so his Tempetus Beta strike could delete them off map.

What is worrisome is that folks are not planning properly for their dice and not making it through at least 3 full turns a player

Do you have a link to the interview? And what do you mean by your last statement?

 FeindusMaximus wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
You can see them on the Best Coast Pairings AP

Sweet, not.

The BAO is a sponsored event so you don't have to pay to see them. So your attitude is unnecessary.

Contextually, I believe he's inferring people do not prepare things like dice buckets / rollers / baggies with the right # of dice for their mass dice units. I.E. a prepared tournament conscript player should have a couple of dice bags with the # of dice necessary for a full squad to fire, and remove dice as models die, so that they can easily roll during game, instead of counting up hundreds of dice over and over again at extreme time delay during play.

Which, if I'm accurately interpreting, is a really vital thing.

MVBrandt wrote:
Contextually, I believe he's inferring people do not prepare things like dice buckets / rollers / baggies with the right # of dice for their mass dice units. I.E. a prepared tournament conscript player should have a couple of dice bags with the # of dice necessary for a full squad to fire, and remove dice as models die, so that they can easily roll during game, instead of counting up hundreds of dice over and over again at extreme time delay during play.

Which, if I'm accurately interpreting, is a really vital thing.

Thank you Mr Brandt for understanding what I mean. Most people who are in these tournaments at the level of vying for title are not new people. They should be prepared to get through the minimum amount of turns required since the dawn of time in 40k gaming, and if they are not then some shame should be lumped upon them.

The interview I saw with the Winner was on the BoK facebook feed, dont know if it is on the website yet. It was the interview with Brandon Grant on the BoK FB page

I've downloaded the app, but I cannot see the lists. 'Events' tab is blank. How can I see the lists?

 Vector Strike wrote:
I've downloaded the app, but I cannot see the lists. 'Events' tab is blank. How can I see the lists?

I don't believe you can search it. But it is on the events list.

Looks like Horde Guard plus Scions vs. Tau Commander Spam was the Final with the Guard player winning. So this pretty much confirms that the units people thought were powerful, are.

 Vector Strike wrote:
I've downloaded the app, but I cannot see the lists. 'Events' tab is blank. How can I see the lists?

Choose Recent Events, then scroll down to BAO. Sometimes you have to hit the button twice to load.

Then you can choose either roster to look them up by player or placings.

My app shows the following selections at start:

Events
Ticket Sales
Account Details
Payment Account
Support
Logout

clicking on 'Events', goes to a screen letting me serach for one or add a New Event. There isn't any 'Recent Events' button or tab.

hmm so 5 of the top 10 lists were guard horde variants w plasma spam (including the GSC list).
Lucy we got a problem!

In all seriousness its nice to see the other 5 lists are all varied. Even if those armies competitive options tend to be 1 dimensional (tau commander spam, etc)

Again - this was an index only tourney. So I assume items will change as the new codex creep sets in.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Again - this was an index only tourney. So I assume items will change as the new codex creep sets in.

Um codexs aren't coming out for a while AND codexs aren't drastically changing armies. a single relic, a different warlord trait, a small chapter tactic buff, and a unique stratagem isn't going to radically change what is overpowered or underpowered in the game (in fact you will only see people choose which tactics/strategems makes the best most efficient units BETTER). Furthermore you are talking at least 2 years worth of releases.

People within the first 3-4weeks were able to accurately predict (both mathematically and in playtested battlereports) which units were already overpowered. Conscript spam and plasmagun/pistol spam is predominantly in half the top 10 lists and in both undefeated lists. That is a HUGE outlier that needs to be addressed. There are other units that are slightly undercosted (FW basilisk carriages, guilliman, tau commanders, brimstone horrors, etc) and I wouldnt mind seeing those units playtested a little longer but nothing that was as drastic and clearly an issue as the above two units. if you want to see real balance without 1 army type taking over half the top 10 rankings we need to see those items adjusted sooner then later.