Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Whelp looks like one of the first Kickstarters I've been burned by, other than Monsters, Maidens & Mayhem. At least I received some things but not everything. Considering I've backed over 250 Kickstarters that would be a pretty good track record. It still doesn't turn me away from Kickstarter but I have found myself lately being more cautious or limiting the amount I risk.

Hello,

This is a message from Kickstarter’s Integrity team. We're writing to inform you that a project you backed, Return of the Dragon, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute.

The law requires that we remove the project from public view until the dispute is resolved (please see our Copyright Policy and Trademark Policy for more info). Because the project already ended successfully, your pledge hasn’t been affected. The creator should still be able to move forward with the project (and send any unfulfilled rewards). If you have any questions, though, you can still message the creator from the project page.

Thanks for your patience and cooperation,
Kickstarter

I know there were quite a few people who haven't received anything at all for the Return of the Dragon. Artistic Justice Games is also outstanding for many still for Fairytale Games: The Battle Royal and Fairytale Games: The Miniatures Campaign. He has gone radio silence and interestingly Return of the Dragon is no longer listed on the Artistic Justice Games website. Greenbrier Games has stated they only dealt with distribution and creation of miniatures, but the other parts of the campaign they had no involvement.

Update

Apparently on BoardGameGeek there is a post by Alexander Lim. As much as I hope it is true, this sounds awfully familiar what was said when Prodos Games pulled the Aliens vs Predator Kickstarter page. So I guess we'll see if the Return of the Dragon KS page ever comes back after removing said images.

Hello everyone, as you will notice, our Kickstarter Page for Dragon Tides is currently down because of our license ending with Bruce Lee, LLC. Because of the contractual agreement, we will need to remove everything that has both Bruce Lee and Brandon Lee's images before the page can go up again. This is something that we're working with them on so don't alarmed.

We're also going to be updating both our Facebook Pager and Websites with these new changes.

I've also been away from the boards for several months due to being in and out of the hospital but more importantly, to finalize certain things with our publisher, Greenbrier Games, in order to have 2017 be the year where things can finally move forward for all of you. I'm truly excited to finally be able to announce that, given the positive new changes that has been agreed on. Expect an official update for Dragon Tides here on BGG and Kickstarter (given that things have been approved on Kickstarter) by next week.

Thank you and really looking forward to making a public return on all our campaigns.

I do find it strange that Return of the Dragon has to be taken down to remove images, however Dragon Tides doesn't have to be taken down (because the campaign was canceled and not completed?).

Is this being run by prodos ?

Thanks for posting this, Dark Severance! I've moved this to Dakka Discussions since it's not a current campaign, as that's where we discuss most snafus like this (unfortunately not the first, and likely won't be the last.......). Cheers

Thanks Dark Severance! I was in for $155 on this one, including $30 for shipping, and haven't got a sausage to show for it. Was quite depressing seeing this game at retail in Europe, wondering why it was so damn hard to ship even the base game to me.

Kickstarters and licenses, eh?

It certainly seems to be another question to ask in terms of how long a company has it for.....

if it's only 1-2 years its probably not safe as all its going to take is a bit of slippage and a problem or two and you could easily end up with nothing

 CURNOW wrote:
Is this being run by prodos ?

No it isn't ran by Prodos. It is done by Artistic Justice Games, these were plastic not resin miniatures board games.

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for posting this, Dark Severance! I've moved this to Dakka Discussions since it's not a current campaign, as that's where we discuss most snafus like this (unfortunately not the first, and likely won't be the last.......). Cheers

Thank you. I wasn't sure since it was technically news/rumors as it happened at the time I thought that was the relevant place. However makes sense since it was a finished campaign it goes into Discussions.

 Bioptic wrote:
Kickstarters and licenses, eh?

From what I understand it comes down to poor management, price changes and over-extending. Their first Kickstarter did good, had some issues with manufacturing and having to move to a new one. Then a second Kickstarter to basically pay for things for the first one. Then Dragon Tide which was supposed be on it's own and the other two were shipping at the time, so seemed less risky. It was something along those lines. The inital 40, they call them the Sacred 40 miniatures went out but many of the Kickstarters are still missing bits. Greenbrier Games has distribution of them, but basically holding them until the bill is paid or something like that. Greenbrier had to make an official announcement, because some of the Artistic Justice issues were bleeding into Greenbrier kickstarters, which they made here.

That said... supposedly he plans to deliver everything promised. He sold off one of his IPs, I know has been putting in work with some other companies and people. His radio silence, which seems to have been lifted, is what makes it seem like he is blowing smoke. I don't know enough to know enough to know if that is true though. So we're all sort of a sit and wait.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It certainly seems to be another question to ask in terms of how long a company has it for.....

if it's only 1-2 years its probably not safe as all its going to take is a bit of slippage and a problem or two and you could easily end up with nothing

Yeah I do find it a bit surprising that one would only get a license for 1-2 years. But seeing what happened with Prodos, it was roughly about 4 years before they renegotiated I believe. It does make me less likely to want to be part of existing IPs. There might be some other clauses that cause it like, not meeting X sales before Y date or something along those lines... it may not be simply a time period but not knowing details, there is no telling.

He does appear to be responding on BBG so that is a positive. He said an update will be coming soon(tm). His response about license, future sales and delivering was:

Great Question! You will receive the original version with the correct miniatures. But because of the license expiration, we will not be selling DT anywhere. The Stretch Goal and other stuff do not have Bruce or Brandon Lee in it and are part of Dragon Tides, which is our own IP. So in a nutshell, we will still get you what you pledged for.

Alexander Lim is a confirmed shill. THAT name has a long pedigree of asshattery on KS's.
He flim-flams around a lot, as well with other "official" company names, but in all HE is a Thief that uses KS as his medium...
He has about as much integrity and chops as Nystul Does. By now, he has a/// reputation that is known far and wide for taking the money and running.

As to the Prodos Question- Same rinse and repeat Bullgak. AND Kickstarter still does nothing about it.

I fro one am ready to sell my patented gifts of my exhaled air, and be the next KS Million- air.

I did get my dragon tides base game, just not any of the extras. Artistic Justice has a habit of over extending itself and not judging stretch goals right.
But I do have a Bruce Lee miniature I can flash harden and Paint.

Flash harden?

What's that all about?

 Bioptic wrote:
Kickstarters and licenses, eh?

Yeah!

After Prodos, in which Fox basically *bleeped* them around, not to mention even Palladium, who isn't helping Carmen despite taking his money for the IP, licensers are yet another partner who can muck up a KS.

I backed Monolith's Conan, and Cryptozoic's Walking Dead, but both of these companies had staff with more experience than Arctic Justice.

AJ had so many problems with Fairytale Games (not paying artists, investors pulling out, no money, mediocre game), that there was no way I could back another of their projects until Lim showed some proof he could deliver.

 Alpharius wrote:
Flash harden?

What's that all about?

the hot water then cold water trick to harden Boardgame minis to be painted. You dip the mini in hot water like you would to fix bent plastic, but then you imediatly dip it in cold water to cool it off. It makes flimsier plastic models (like the ones from board games) more rigid for painting. I just call it Flash Hardening.

Afaik, KS doesn't allow you to change the KS page after the pledging period is over? Yet the creator says the KS page will come back up, just without the pictures of Bruce and Brandon Lee?