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They'd have to advance the timeline past 41k for the new marines to be used. You think they are going to create one of these supposed bad boys in a day? They need what, 20 years or so to create a normal marine.

I wouldn't be so surprised with new power armour marks that maybe have certain rules, or terminator marks... Maybe the contemptor with a jump pack the forge world spoke about at some point has been stolen by GW.

No new uber marines though. I think it was wishlisting that has become a monster in it's own right rumour wise.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That's not what the background said though.

New weapons? Yes. Explicitly stated.

New armies, the size of which haven't been seen since The Great Crusade? Yes. Explicitly stated.

Improving Dad's 'Make-a-man' recipe? No mention at all.

That's my take as well, I don't see where any sort of nu-marine has been guaranteed. I hope GW does something more interesting than that. Some sort of "Guard Revival" would be far better, imo.

If I was GW and I wanted to make money...

First, find my best selling range, Space Marines. Then, increase the size and possibly add a stat point increase or two. Then people start to buy them as they're better.
Before you know it, all the GW fans buy into it and replace whole armies or start new armies. Then comes the scale increase required on Rhinos, Terminators etc. All lapped up by the new army buyers. Eventually the new scale is accepted. Competitor's figures can no longer be proxied in as they're the wrong scale. Second hand models are no use and everyone buys new models.

Second move... get rid of Codices. People no longer plan armies out. They just go out an buy the latest releases with stats in the box with tougher stats/abilities release after release.

Within a year, everyone that ragequit will be back buying new armies. Many too set in the GW way of power netlisting and seeing new releases each month.

PS. If this pic is of a new Marine, I hope they've run them by Jah first. ;-)

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That's not what the background said though.

New weapons? Yes. Explicitly stated.

New armies, the size of which haven't been seen since The Great Crusade? Yes. Explicitly stated.

Improving Dad's 'Make-a-man' recipe? No mention at all.

That's my take as well, I don't see where any sort of nu-marine has been guaranteed. I hope GW does something more interesting than that. Some sort of "Guard Revival" would be far better, imo.

It's possible Guilliman, as architect of the Codex Astartes is going to make changes.

We know Terra has a large reserve of Geneseed - so we could easily see a chunk of that released to existing Chapters to increase their size. After all, the War they're heading into could easily wipe current Chapters in the blink of an eye.

Or you would make Nu-marines their own faction and turn regular marines into power armor guardsmen. Thus artificially making marine armies bigger and getting people to start a new faction lol.

I've been silent on this issue, at least while I waited for more info or some kind of response from GW. After countless pages of discussion, I guess I'll chime in.

This looks to be either a near flawless conversion, or an actual GW product. I personally would feel that there was a 55% chance of it being a conversion if that was the only info I had.

However...... That isn't the only info we have. Hastings has chimed in and stated that something along these lines is coming. That man has MAJOR clout and righteously deserves respect for his long-running and major rumors leaks. So, with this meshing so well with what he stated I now give this about an 80% likelihood of being a GW product, or at least a prototype.


As for the concept of the Nu-Marine, I may or may not like it, depending on how they implement it. The game does NOT need a new marine faction. Super-duper marines all ready exist in the form of Custodes.

However, if they say that these new guys are just a slightly more perfected version of the process on how marines are all ready made (Improvement notes the Emperor mocked up during the Heresy, only to be finished by Cawl and RG) I could be cool with it. A streamlined process that removes some of the "impurities" of their creation and thus makes marine production faster to help swell the ranks of all chapters with something better than normal marines, but not quite a terminator.

 cuda1179 wrote:

However, if they say that these new guys are just a slightly more perfected version of the process on how marines are all ready made (Improvement notes the Emperor mocked up during the Heresy, only to be finished by Cawl and RG) I could be cool with it. A streamlined process that removes some of the "impurities" of their creation and thus makes marine production faster to help swell the ranks of all chapters with something better than normal marines, but not quite a terminator.

After stealing the process for creating The Raptors from Corax, Omegon turns around and gives the intel to Guilliman and keeps it for himself, so CSM can get a slice of the Guillstartes pie.

guiliman is from the era where marine recruiting process was down to just under a year (in some legions), he wrote the codex astartes and is the most adaptable primarch, so to set things straight.

A: Guiliman could and would reinstate the legions if he saw fit
B: Guiliman could and would, should the info still be available, create marines in a massively more efficient manner, starting by showing the current chapter how to actually do it without all the religious dogma that has grown around it.
C: Guiliman was not an inventor, he was a refiner and adapter, he would look at units and tactics that others used and attempt to improve them or just copy them because they work, this would easily lead to the "nu Marine" concept, taking what all the chapters have learned and creating a new legion based on the thousands of years of warfare.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That's not what the background said though.

New weapons? Yes. Explicitly stated.

New armies, the size of which haven't been seen since The Great Crusade? Yes. Explicitly stated.

Improving Dad's 'Make-a-man' recipe? No mention at all.

That's my take as well, I don't see where any sort of nu-marine has been guaranteed. I hope GW does something more interesting than that. Some sort of "Guard Revival" would be far better, imo.

Marines wise, increase chapter sizes x 10. 10,000,000 marines theoretically across the imperium still doesn't sound like enough, but it isn't as ludicrous as 1,000,000. No need for uber marines or pumped up weapons, just a slight change to the fluff, and also even if a 10th of those numbers were to fall renegade, there's enough still about to stop a heresy.

The guard however, that's where it gets interesting. A return to the imperial army format would be awesome. However, that would be a huge change to AM, so maybe the AM are a separate entity, they are the defensive outfit, or the main guard. The imperial army are elite, and only used in/for the new crusade.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The guard however, that's where it gets interesting. A return to the imperial army format would be awesome. However, that would be a huge change to AM, so maybe the AM are a separate entity, they are the defensive outfit, or the main guard. The imperial army are elite, and only used in/for the new crusade.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Astra Militarum is basically the Imperial Army but they don't have their own dedicated space fleets any more. Imperial Guard is a bulk subset of Astra Militarum.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
17 pages of pure speculation over a pic that may or not be a real model?

It's actually damned impressive, honestly.

 ph34r wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The guard however, that's where it gets interesting. A return to the imperial army format would be awesome. However, that would be a huge change to AM, so maybe the AM are a separate entity, they are the defensive outfit, or the main guard. The imperial army are elite, and only used in/for the new crusade.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Astra Militarum is basically the Imperial Army but they don't have their own dedicated space fleets any more. Imperial Guard is a bulk subset of Astra Militarum.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Imperial Army weren't shackled by the dogma of the current imperium, and were more of an elite force, including higher grade weapons and armour than seen in the current IG of the AM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My bad, I was thinking of the Solar Auxilia not the Imperial army as a whole.

Do we think we will see new scale rhinos or other vehicles?

Thinking of starting a Blood Angel army though wonder the likelihood of newer scale marines in the next couple years.

My new 1000 sons Rubrics and Termies look same scale as DV DA counterparts.

Not sure if DV is bigger than vanilla and other marine factions.

I just think it's a conversion because it seems weird that GW would model it to be holding a Bolter and Pistol at the same time.

I don't know about you guys but I would really, REALLY LOVE to see all of the Emperor's forces combined in to one massive faction.

Codex - Imperium of Man, that'd be awesome.

You'd have the more expensive units (Astartes, Inquisition, Agents) and the cheaper more numerous dudes (Guardsmen, Sisters) then the specialists (Knights, Talons)

Even ignoring the...problems with Guilliman, having him make better"est" marines would be ridiculous.

If Corax comes back and does it, the guy that actually had the knowledge and "tech savy", sure..but not Guilliman.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
If I was GW and I wanted to make money...

First, find my best selling range, Space Marines. Then, increase the size and possibly add a stat point increase or two. Then people start to buy them as they're better.
Before you know it, all the GW fans buy into it and replace whole armies or start new armies. Then comes the scale increase required on Rhinos, Terminators etc. All lapped up by the new army buyers. Eventually the new scale is accepted. Competitor's figures can no longer be proxied in as they're the wrong scale. Second hand models are no use and everyone buys new models.

Second move... get rid of Codices. People no longer plan armies out. They just go out an buy the latest releases with stats in the box with tougher stats/abilities release after release.

Within a year, everyone that ragequit will be back buying new armies. Many too set in the GW way of power netlisting and seeing new releases each month.

PS. If this pic is of a new Marine, I hope they've run them by Jah first. ;-)

Actually...

If I wanted to make money, after already sponging for Molds and sprues for 2+ 30K games, and continuing on the AOS-ification of 40K-41K to 42 K, I would honestly go back a step, make 30K models at a slight line as the current range, and continue to open up the floodgates of mass consumerism, as I opened up the game to all comers, and unleashed the rifts to include 30-41 M marines to be included in an endless procession of slaughter that would make Khorne pleased... Combine that with the new direction of Chaos elder, and the game only now needs additional content for a few more factions, Nids, for G.P. Orks, to bring them up to speed, and a couple of the others...

BTW, What color plastic are the 30K marines?

I'm not sure what it is, but it looks great.

 Bulldogging wrote:
Even ignoring the...problems with Guilliman, having him make better"est" marines would be ridiculous.

If Corax comes back and does it, the guy that actually had the knowledge and "tech savy", sure..but not Guilliman.

In the novel it's the techmarines and apothecaries doing all the actual work. I imagine it would be much the same here. Guilliman gets Cawl to start a nu-marine project after the Heresy and Primarchs have started disappearing, but unlike the Space Wolf nu-wolf project, this comes to fruition. Cawl then doesn't have anyone to deliver it to because Guilliman is busy being dead. So he puts it in a drawer for later.

Before anyone goes 'the Adeptus Mechanicus would never do that' I imagine the Vaults of Moravec are full of incredibly useful stuff for instance, but they don't go rifling through them.

The knees look like stormcast knees, Age of Emperor confirmed! And Half life 3!

Procreate is that similar to pro painting?

Its a type of sculpting putty like green stuff or the tamiya brand putties.

 Bulldogging wrote:
Even ignoring the...problems with Guilliman, having him make better"est" marines would be ridiculous.

If Corax comes back and does it, the guy that actually had the knowledge and "tech savy", sure..but not Guilliman.

Guilliman doesn't need the know-how himself, he's got Cawl. Like any good leader, it's less about what he can do personally, and more about what he can enable others to do.

(Which is sorta a problem I have with mecha-guilliman and most beatstick Chapter Masters in general, but hey. . . )

 cuda1179 wrote:
However...... That isn't the only info we have. Hastings has chimed in and stated that something along these lines is coming. That man has MAJOR clout and righteously deserves respect for his long-running and major rumors leaks.

He has also chimed in that he doesn't think this is genuine and doesn't match what he has heard though.

IMO it would look like this:
1. Uber marines will turn to be simply Custodes (see upcoming codex).
2. Bigger armies (see Rise of the Primarch) will turn to be better creation system (faster, safer) for SM + reorganization of Chapters (possibly new Legions).

There is the question of how much Guilliman understands about the process of creating an Astartes.

It's long been in the background that most (if not all) Chapters know the method by rote - but few, if any actually understand the biology etc behind it.

Now, I don't see Guilliman having anywhere near the knowledge to actually improve the end result - that's serious genecraft which even Fabius Bile (who's been trying for thousands and thousands of years) hasn't been able to perfect.

But, he may know enough to look at the modern process and know 'you really don't need to do steps A, B, E, G, J, K, L, R, T, W, Y or Z. That's just mucking about'

So smoothing out and improving the current process? Absolutely within the realms of possibility.

Improving on the original? Very unlikely - and Cawl likely can't help there, not being a Magos Biologis.

Well Ghouliman put his order in with Cawl 10000 years ago, realistically there could be tanks full of gulimarines on Mars waiting to be activated.

GW has twice boosted the size of.marines. From the RT era beakies to the Mk 7s then again from 2nd edition to 3rd without needing additional fluff, so they can upsize again without needing to create nu marines or super marines.

SeanDrake wrote:
Well Ghouliman put his order in with Cawl 10000 years ago, realistically there could be tanks full of gulimarines on Mars waiting to be activated.

Sounds like the plot to a Star Wars prequel...

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Well Ghouliman put his order in with Cawl 10000 years ago, realistically there could be tanks full of gulimarines on Mars waiting to be activated.

Sounds like the plot to a Star Wars prequel...

Hah exactly. This would be GW going back to the good old days of 40K being a mish mash of popular culture

Unless I have missed an actual leak saying that there is going to be a parallel set of stats for Nu-Marines. Surely this is just going to be a cosmetic change with everything being the same scale as now except the legs will be slightly longer which will actually make for better proportions and bring them to the correct scale to be 7-8 feet tall. This has been going on for a while anyway from plastic sternguard onwards.

All anyone is going on is Hastings' cryptic "Not only the Armour will change." Could mean many things, but is being taken as a strong hint toward NuMarines for many people.