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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Is it too much to ask for a PDF of the roster sheet? I hate photocopying pages from books. I suppose I could take a picture and convert that to a PDF after a little cleanup.

Seriously it would have taken less time to google one of the many PDFs and interactive excel rosters that people have created than complain about it!

BTW, I got to see the terrain in person today (mine is still on sprue). I don't know why I thought it was going to be smaller. The pieces are quite large. Another couple pieces from the standard releases will give me plenty for a 6x4 board.

Yeah you can see why the box was so dammed big once you try and put the Ferro/Galvanic coke can things together. I've got a couple of sets of the terrain but feel l want more for a 4'x4' once you go up a level or two. I've got an imperial sector box in the loft that should help with this. Really looking forward to combining the two types.

gungo wrote:
And I assure you there is NO nurgle demon prince on gw site as I just looked for a model. The great unclean one, epidemus, or herald of nurgle are not a demon prince.

Anymore fabrications to support your false claims?

Care to apologise to Manchu?





And here it is on the US webstore too.

This took me 2 minutes of googling.

Whew, I'm glad the Nurgle Prince is still there, even if it's Finecast. Should've bought both Princes when they were metal, DG will finally give me a reason to own them (my Word Bearers had a Doberman looking undevided Prince planned, but I never got the needed Confrontation model thanks to their brand crashing).

I still have to write GW about Shadow War, with a rulebook I *might* get some interest back up, but making another round of boxes (and M2O Necromunda gangs) would be the bomb.

I already have a box of Nid warriors and gaunts as well as a ton of metal 2nd ed ones, il might be a chance to actually USE them. How weird, playing games.

PS: Does the Lake Town house work with WHFB humans, being in LotR scale and all. Looks perfect for my swamp mat.

 Manchu wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
No you can't. You can pre-order a physical copy on the 22nd, but the actual release date hasn't been announced; only that it'll be "a few weeks" later.

My friend, you can buy the digital copy on 4/22:

We’re also making a digital edition of this new book, giving you yet another choice on how to get your copy, which will also be available to pre-order that same weekend.

source

When you will get the digital copy you buy on 4/22 is a separate matter.

You won't. Digital copies become available for download the same day as physical books are released. In fact, for iBooks editions, you can't pre-order, IIRC; Apple only put them up for sale on the release date.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Yodhrin, please study the different meanings of "support":

FW "supports" 40k
- no miniature in any dex sold by GW is a FW-exclusive model

Except for the Vendetta and wings for Tyranid Warriors and Hive Tyrants*. Well, the upgrade set. For a good while, a few Imperial Guard tanks were only available from Forge World (the Vanquisher and Hydra, and perhaps the Medusa and Griffon), as was the Wave Serpent and some Falcon turret options.

OK, they're upgrade kits. But the fact remains, if I want to buy official models, I have to buy something from Forge World.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

gungo wrote:
And I assure you there is NO nurgle demon prince on gw site as I just looked for a model. The great unclean one, epidemus, or herald of nurgle are not a demon prince.

Anymore fabrications to support your false claims?

Care to apologise to Manchu?

Spoiler:

And here it is on the US webstore too.

This took me 2 minutes of googling.

It's was out of stock when I looked and still has absolutely nothing to do with everything else I mentioned and my point that FW sells gw codex models that they don't make. It's not one of the main armies I play just an army I am trying to build so was looking up what models are available.

Care to apologize for pulling out a single subjective quote to attempt to seem credible, mr trump?

Here's a task for you... go find me rough riders on the games workshop website!!! And I'll happily show you pictures of my krieg rough riders...

 Manchu wrote:

FW "supports" 40k
- no miniature in any dex sold by GW is a FW-exclusive model

The Vendetta conversion kit and the Sky Slasher Swarm (wings for Warriors are OOP it seems) are examples, several vehicle options too. There were more (either replaced by a GW model or taken out of the codex), so it seems like FW's support is indeed in decline.

Hexy has sets of tokens in various colours on sale for Shadow War - Armageddon right now: https://hexy-shop.com/product-category/producer/wartiles/

2x Firing Arc token (dedicated to 40mm bases)
3x Firing Arc token (dedicated to 32mm bases)
4x Firing Arc token (dedicated to 25mm bases)
6x Running token
6x Stealth token
6x Man down! token
6x Under fire! token
6x Supply dump token
1x Fuel tank token
1x Base entrance token

RULE #1 IS BE POLITE.

RULE #2 IS STAY ON TOPIC.

THE TOPIC HERE IS "Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon".

 Ghaz wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
FW "supports" LotR/Hobbit
- all new miniatures releases are FW-exclusive

Except for the Lake-Town House.

And re-releasing of out of production models, which are not FW-exclusive. That's support.
And releasing new books, army lists, scenarios, rules, which are also not FW-exclusive. That's also support.
And White Dwarf content, which is not FW-exclusive. That's still support

gungo wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

gungo wrote:
And I assure you there is NO nurgle demon prince on gw site as I just looked for a model. The great unclean one, epidemus, or herald of nurgle are not a demon prince.

Anymore fabrications to support your false claims?

Care to apologise to Manchu?

Spoiler:

And here it is on the US webstore too.

This took me 2 minutes of googling.

It's was out of stock when I looked and still has absolutely nothing to do with everything else I mentioned and my point that FW sells gw codex models that they don't make. It's not one of the main armies I play just an army I am trying to build so was looking up what models are available.

Care to apologize for pulling out a single subjective quote to attempt to seem credible, mr trump?

Here's a task for you... go find me rough riders on the games workshop website!!! And I'll happily show you pictures of my krieg rough riders...

You accused Manchu of lying about the Nurgle Prince. I proved you wrong. Now you're throwing a tantrum and calling me Trump?

Whether X model is a nob is up to GW and GW says it sells a Nob on a bike. GW def sells a Nurgle Daemon Prince. I never said GW sells bits to account for every option for every entry, such as a bike for a Warboss or a Vendetta conversion but by all means strawman away ...

Same point applies to you Doug. Note how I did not say "GW does not support LotR/Hobbit" ... but I actually did say "all new miniatures releases are FW-exclusives." And as already explained I did not include the buildings because they are scenery - they aren't required to play an army in a ruleset sold by GW.

And that, after all, was the real point. For 40k, nobody needs to go to FW. You can if you want some special option/upgrade and don't want to convert it. That's one definition of FW support. The version of FW support that worries me is when many or all figure releases are FW exclusives. If that's how Necromunda would be run then I really doubt it will prosper because FW is a boutique.

The success of Shadow War is linked to 40k. It doesn't indicate that there is huge latent demand for hive ganger models. In that regard, such models might be most appropriate for FW to produce/sell. But the BB model of releasing great plastic sets and then having FW fill out the rest of the releases simply justifies the premise that such games are sidelines at best, undermining their chances for long-term support.

Shadow War, however, is just a sideline game or at best an entry point game. All GW needs to release is rules and people start buying existing kits like crazy. The point of Shadow War's success is there is a lot of latent demand for 40k models that they already make and sell. Shadow War merits support because (a) it can actually drive sales of existing products and (b) the "support" in question is very low cost.

I'd like a generic multi part plastic kit for Hive Gangers. FW could then sell a number of resin conversion kits to represent different factions, as well as special characters (if those existed in Necromunda).

Sorta like how they're doing blood bowl. Plastic kits by GW, resin extras from FW.

Yeah sounds good for a one-off release as some kind of Shadow War supplement. Not a good way to handle a game you actually want to grow.

I don't think they want to grow it, its just a mechanism to lower the bar of entry into 40k. An entry game, not a game in its own right. If it was a game in its own right, then we would have seen the return of a dedicated line of Necromunda hive gang miniatures.

No, I wasn't talking about growing Shadow War - I was talking about growing a successful Necromunda product line. The idea you outlines is fine for a FW supplement to SW. That is the perfect kind of product for FW.

I think SWA is intentionally less deep than Necromunda. There was concern in the late 90's that the boxed games were "taking sales" from proper Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K - this was rather silly, but that's what a lot of folks thought.

If you want SWA to be an intro game...you need to keep it a little light, in order for players to "want" more...to want to field more units and then dive into proper 40K etc.

A deep community built up around a boxed game (i.e. the massive crowds which still play Necromunda/Mordheim/Warhammer Quest Proper) are good for the hobby but not particularly great for sales. From a sales perspective you don't want people having too much fun with only 10-20 models.

The side angle to SWA of course is intriguing people to buy a bunch of small forces vs. one large force, but I think the end goal is still hoping they dive $500+ deep on a 40K army at some point.

Neronoxx wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Alpha wrote:

Any hope of Custodes for shadow war?
Could there be anything cooler than a 2 model kill team? no!

You're kidding, right? Custodes are walking meat grinders lol.

You're looking at each Custode being ~480pts... but how much would their weapons be?

The other 520....

But this is what makes Shadow Wars great. You can try it and see what happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
I think SWA is intentionally less deep than Necromunda. There was concern in the late 90's that the boxed games were "taking sales" from proper Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K - this was rather silly, but that's what a lot of folks thought.

I got that from a store owner who told me point blank that the side games were "distractions". Players stopped buying models for their armies in the main games and focused on the new stuff. But, and this is the question nobody answered - in the absence of the new stuff, would sales of the main game lines have stayed constant?

What he didn't realize is that all he was seeing was what was happening in his own store. I and a large number of my friends looked at 40K for years and never got into it, but we got into Necromunda when it was first released. That led to Space Hulk, and that led to...40K. We never played in a store, we played at each other's houses.

I'm not into 40K anymore for a variety of reasons. But now I've bought some Harlequins for my kid, some Thousand Sons for my wife, and will probably get some Battle Sisters for me. All money spent on 40K products GW was not getting before.

Yeah, it was a popular opinion, one I never much supported. I do imagine that GW prefers to support a few ranges rather than many, but I always imagined that money earned was money earned.

Back in the 90's a load of people who bought Warhammer Quest went on to buy a ton of random fantasy models because GW had the foresigh to put a bestiary in the main rulebooks which covered their entire fantasy range. This meant someone may not buy a 120 man Fantasy army, but a handful of boxes of random monsters/blisters to go with the WHQ game.

People bought new and different Terminators to run in Space Hulk (and often more/different Tyranids as well). Some 40K players bought the Necromunda box in order to use the terrain normal 40K games, etc. There was a ton of cross-over stuff. There were a lot of people who played neither Warhammer Fantasy nor 40K...but owned Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Warhammer Quest, Necromunda, Man O'War etc. ---- that's money GW would not have earned if smaller "side" projects weren't available.

I don't imagine the gaming market is shrinking but 40K's continued growth in the size of game (nowdays about 2-300% the size of a game from the 90's) means a much larger barrier to entry ---- even if people can play smaller games. But a $90-150 boxed game? That's very much on par for "deluxe" board games. You'll get another market of people who are attracted by the self-contained/smaller nature of the product.

Hell, my best friend - a GW retail manager in the early 2000's just bought his first GW product since then. It was Shadow War Armageddon. Now GW won't get much more out of him since he bought about $6,000 worth of bits when his store closed, but they got $130 out of him for that boxed game.

 Manchu wrote:
No, I wasn't talking about growing Shadow War - I was talking about growing a successful Necromunda product line. The idea you outlines is fine for a FW supplement to SW. That is the perfect kind of product for FW.

Ok, gotcha. I think we're talking past each other - I'm discussing ways in which GW could still introduce some classic Necromunda hive gang factions into Shadow War, the actual game that we got and not the hypothetical Necromunda game that you're discussing.

A single plastic kit with lots of options, supplemented by resin Conversion parts from Forgeworld (heads, bodies etc themed after the various different factions from the old Necromunda). This Hive Gang would count as one new faction with its own PDF (Hive Gangers), with a choice of special rules to represent the old factions (one faction gets access to power armour or whatever the Spyrers were known for, another faction has mutants, etc).

What I have in mind is a lot like the Genestealer Cultist Guardsmen units, you use a plastic box as a basis and add parts from other kits (Genestealer Cult kits; or FW resin conversion kits). GW could even link this new Hive Gang faction into the core Warhammer 40K game by adding them to the next Astra Militarum codex, the Hive Gangers would be a troop unit similar to the Penal Legion. It makes sense lorewise that Hive Gangers would come to the aid of Imperial Guard regiments defending a Hive city (their Hive).

Given the circumstances, GW is clearly not interested in an actual Necromunda game so a single Hive gang kit is probably the best I can hope for.

I'm not sure what the financial calculus is, but I'm definitely one of those who abandoned 40k but will at the very least be buying the Shadow War Rulebook. I might buy some new figs if I enjoy Shadow War.

On the other hand not only would I for sure buy a necromunda Rulebook, I'd probably buy the boxed set and likely even more new figs.

Put another way, I'm from a segment of the wargame market that will likely NEVER reinvest in another GW mass battle game. However I'm still a wargamer if you can play on my nostalgia or love of the fluff and provide a small game system -NOT a one-off board game- I'm willing to reconsider purchasing at least some GW product.

I don't pretend to know what the financial calculus is regarding canibalizing sales from core games but surely there other folks like me for whom games like Shadow War or Necromunda are almost the only kind of product that GW can make that will appeal to us.

I honestly don't think there is a lot of money to be made on targeting people strictly interested in nostalgia projects. Now, if such people can be tempted to get on board for the wider range of current products via a nostalgia product aaaaand that same nostalgia product can also appeal to a lot of new and newer customers then you're on to something. And that's what Shadow War is.

I like that the boxed games like swa, w quest, etc are simple. This makes them quick, easy to learn, etc. For gw fans, we don't all have the hours for 40k or large aos games every day (with kids I'm down to once or twice a month). However, simple and quick games are easy to set up and play each night when the kids go to bed.

Well, and many wives from our group play games like w quest, swa, etc, but won't play 40k or aos for the same time and complexity issues.

Eilif 720498 9307068 e3fbbf81b7767af6cd44a4e0ac98ed92 Th.jpg wrote:Put another way, I'm from a segment of the wargame market that will likely NEVER reinvest in another GW mass battle game. However I'm still a wargamer if you can play on my nostalgia or love of the fluff and provide a small game system -NOT a one-off board game- I'm willing to reconsider purchasing at least some GW product.

I don't pretend to know what the financial calculus is regarding canibalizing sales from core games but surely there other folks like me for whom games like Shadow War or Necromunda are almost the only kind of product that GW can make that will appeal to us.

You're not alone. This is about the only way GW have stayed relevant to me. Without smaller games such as this and their renewed interest in producing board games, I would have happily dusted them off of my heels, never to return.

 Elbows wrote:
I think SWA is intentionally less deep than Necromunda. There was concern in the late 90's that the boxed games were "taking sales" from proper Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K - this was rather silly, but that's what a lot of folks thought.

This line of thinking has always struck me as silly, even though I have heard it from store owners, rumored that it was said by GW, etc since I was playing 40k way back in 4th edition. Among my gaming group and I none of us play 40k, AoS, etc (we simply don't have time for mass battle games, and to be honest the couple of games of 40k 6th/7th I tried were horrid), but we love GW's smaller scale skirmish games. I have no desire to play 40k, but over the last three years I have probably spent $300 on GW models/ paints for Mordheim (which we tend to play a lot), I've already spent over $200 on SWA considering I bought the box, more terrain, and two more kill teams, $150+ on Blood Bowl (not counting the third party stuff for my Undead team), bought Silver Tower, and Death Watch Overkill....etc. There are a lot of people that just don't like mass battle games, particularly ones that take threeish hour to play, a long time to set-up, and have awful (my opinion obviously) rules. Offering Skirmish and smaller scale games appeals to a lot of of those gamers.

 Manchu wrote:
I honestly don't think there is a lot of money to be made on targeting people strictly interested in nostalgia projects. Now, if such people can be tempted to get on board for the wider range of current products via a nostalgia product aaaaand that same nostalgia product can also appeal to a lot of new and newer customers then you're on to something. And that's what Shadow War is.

I'm painting up the Gaunt's Ghost's set to use as an Imperial Guard Shadow War team. I may one day expand them into a 40K army with some converted Catachans. I would love some Hive Gangers in that army, they'd be a themed infantry unit like the Penal Legion (speaking of which, do they still exist in 7th Ed. Astra Militarum?).

Ya, I was hoping 8th would AoS-ify 40K so that it would be scalable and I could play it on the low end. Then GW dropped SWA in our lap. It's the closest I'll ever get to Rogue Trader 2E.

The chance that GW was ever going to get $500-1000 from me for a 40K army was slim to none. But with a supported and expanded Shadow Wars line, they just might. Question is do they realize what they potential have? And if they didn't intend to make a "Shadow War: Location" line, are they smart enough to use it as a gateway game or new scenery delivery vehicle?

 Elbows wrote:
From a sales perspective you don't want people having too much fun with only 10-20 models.

That only works if your competition isn't lined up around the block to offer customers games where you can have as much or more fun than 40k with 10-20 models.

This has always been GWs problem. They have problems understanding that just because they don't do something, that other companies can still do it.

They have to compete, not dream up ways to trap players into spending money when those players are not trapped into only buying GW.

rmeister0 wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Alpha wrote:

Any hope of Custodes for shadow war?
Could there be anything cooler than a 2 model kill team? no!

You're kidding, right? Custodes are walking meat grinders lol.

You're looking at each Custode being ~480pts... but how much would their weapons be?

The other 520....

But this is what makes Shadow Wars great. You can try it and see what happens.

I agree. I think there is enough interest for several modes of plays and interesting scenarios. I could easily see a set of rules for one-man Killteams... whether that's a crisis suit, an assassin, a Custodes, or Marbo... I could also see an expanded play that allow full Killteams of the more points intensive factions... this is where they could have a solid 5 model Grey Knight Killteam or include things that are otherwise too much for a standard game.

 Manchu wrote:
I honestly don't think there is a lot of money to be made on targeting people strictly interested in nostalgia projects. Now, if such people can be tempted to get on board for the wider range of current products via a nostalgia product aaaaand that same nostalgia product can also appeal to a lot of new and newer customers then you're on to something. And that's what Shadow War is.

To carlify. I wasn't only thinking of necromunda-era nostalgists. There's alot of folks who like the 40k universe (via BL or video games) but would never build an entire 40k army and there's also alot of exGW players who would dust of their figs and dive in a again for somethings like Shadow War.

At the same time, I think you underestimate the nostalgia factor. There's ALOT of wargamers with fond (perhaps rose-colored admittedly) memories of Rogue Trader, early editions, necromunda, etc who will never invest in a full 40k army, but could be tempted to relive those memories and create even more with a game that didn't require them to spend 100+ dollars on rulebooks.

Put another way, by virtue of a lower buy-in, narrative play and skirmish size, Shadow War has the potential to compete with the kind of games that many of us have switched to in our post-GW years.

One man killteams are alerady doable to, judging by the Solitaire's rules.

Two Custodes versus an entire Genestealer Cult just might be possible then.

Or Cypher taking on a Chaos cult all by his lonesome...