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Davor wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I thought GW manufactured everything in the UK?

Books seemed to be printed or binded (forget which one) in China and some scenery are done in China. Bases were made in China. I believe that is why we don't have the GW quality. Not sure if the plastic the bases are made from are different or not from what Nottingham uses.

GW's regular bases are made in China as well.

I believe they used to be in-house, but they moved to China when they switched from the 4-to-a-sprue to the individually cast bases.




Crane is awesome. Not entirely sold on the tractors... cool idea, but awfully cartoonish-looking.


And does that toolbox even have any skulls on it?

 insaniak wrote:

Crane is awesome. Not entirely sold on the tractors... cool idea, but awfully cartoonish-looking.

It's the big goofy claw arms sticking out the front of it. If it was just a tow wench on the back it would of been alot more believable. If you were to just put a tow winch out the back of it, it would be much more believable.

Shame you have to, by law, put that claw arm on.

 Grot 6 wrote:

 Shaft, Lord of Slaanesh wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've seen someone do this when the first round of kits were released but I've popped together a quick updated table with all the Sector Mechanicus building kits, the sprues they come with and the price/sprue/set ratio (apologies for those countries I've missed off - nothing personal!).

As you can see the Ferratonic Incinerator is easily the best value kit there, especially if you want plenty of walkways on your table. Combine that kit and either Galvanic Magnavent or the Promethium Forge and you're got most of the sprues available in the range. The Alcomite Stack is the one way to get the dome sprue (why they never bundled this in with the Ferratonic Furnace I'll never know as there's no point to this kit anymore with the release of the Incinerator).

LordShaft.

Go back and check the website... Your missing quite a few. Good list, if you can keep up with it, though. Your rest of your post has jumped the shark, and what you are asking for is in the works. Once again, check the web page...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40-000?Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102352+2260972479+3129408095&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat

Nope, nothing missing - there are only 5 individual building kits in the Sector Mechanicus range so far. Everything else on the GW website are bundles and they're just a handy way of adding several products with a single click; they don't actually save you any money on buying everything individually (at least not in the UK anyway).

LordShaft.

Right. Back in the real world after a damn fine weekend's LARPing.

Really liking those Galvanic thingies.

Davor wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I thought GW manufactured everything in the UK?

Books seemed to be printed or binded (forget which one) in China and some scenery are done in China. Bases were made in China. I believe that is why we don't have the GW quality. Not sure if the plastic the bases are made from are different or not from what Nottingham uses.

The plastic all the big defence line scenery kits are made from is the same stuff, so there's no reason why these bases won't be.

Played my first game of SWA this weekend...came away unimpressed. If I'm going to enjoy it I'm going to have to re-hash a whole bunch of house rules or give it a lot more depth. We had planned on 2-3 games, but a buddy was called away in an emergency.

After playing Mordheim all weekend leading up to it, the starkness of the simplicity was not a bonus. We all kind of sat there and just "uh....well...meh".

Now I have to decide if it's worth the time doing up a lot of extra content.

 Elbows wrote:
Played my first game of SWA this weekend...came away unimpressed. If I'm going to enjoy it I'm going to have to re-hash a whole bunch of house rules or give it a lot more depth. We had planned on 2-3 games, but a buddy was called away in an emergency.
After playing Mordheim all weekend leading up to it, the starkness of the simplicity was not a bonus. We all kind of sat there and just "uh....well...meh".
Now I have to decide if it's worth the time doing up a lot of extra content.

This is a valid critique and having played a contrasting game next to it: what did Mordheim do better?
Were some mechanics "clunky", what could stand to be more "complex"?
We all go into games with different wants on what engages us.
What if you used the mechanics of Kill Team instead?
I know many people are excited with Frostgrave, I have the rules and wonder if there is anything I can "borrow" from.
I have made a fairly large investment in SWA and liked Necromunda so tweaks in any given direction are readily made (I think) and am somewhat motivated to make this work.
Some of the gang territory mechanics were neat and some skills were fun that I agree SWA is lacking.
Thanks for any considered feedback you may have.

(I am still obligated to play a few games of this "straight-up" and then feel justified in house-rule creation).

I understand fully what SWA is supposed to be (easier and faster than Necromunda) and we just realized that, while playable, it's not scratching the itch that Necromunda/Mordheim scratched. I've seen most of what I would criticize mentioned already:

-Campaign will be too short to even get invested in your characters/models/figures/identities.
-Units being proper soldiers...stats are really too good and you don't get the desperation you got in Necromunda/Mordheim building up your mediocre stuff into something worthwhile.
-The out-of-action chart is boring and yes, most grant benefits instead of penalties...
-Creating a kill team was done in about 3 minutes and didn't provide any of the satisfaction of creating a Mordheim warband (more choices, more need to balance weapon types, options, skills, and stats)
-The post-game sequence is non-existent and boring by comparison (no shopping, no exploring, no training)
-Models upgraded by arbitrary choice in no-way tied to what happened in the game, so the story element collapses immediately
-Model is captured? Who cares. It's just a faceless model, likely without any upgrades or any history in your super duper short campaign...so why bother trying to rescue him except for a financial risk if you let him perish.
-The one three-player scenario is just boring as gak - but that's shared with Necromunda and Mordheim on some levels. Some scenarios are just crap. "Oh grab this...yay."
-Hand to hand combat much less chunky...in a bad way (Mordheim stats/gear/abilities are more intriguing and interesting)
-It doesn't help my opinion of SWA that I play Eldar and that list is freakin' milquetoast.
-Way too easy to buy great upgrades for models...there's no excitement when you just buy a great weapon w/ zero issue....no rarity factor, no incredible cost, you didn't have to dig through the underhive to find it. By comparison you'd wet yourself when you somehow managed to find/buy a plasma pistol for your gang leader...and you were the envy of all your friends, etc.
-Promethium caches is a weak way to win a campaign and seems completely pointless for Tyranids etc. I know it's just a "victory point" marker, but it's crap.
-To give the game or campaign real legs you'd have to expand all of the gang lists and start applying a lot of house rules to all kinds of stuff.

I really struggled to care at all about anything that was going on in the game. I only had six models, I should have been very intrigued and given them all names and...nope. Again, probably seemed far worse because we'd just played Mordheim. Maybe if we hadn't it would have been 10-15% more enjoyable. I like modding games and I'll be debating whether I'll launch into doing a full campaign revamp for this, but I doubt I'll bother. I just felt the game was really shallow.

 Elbows wrote:
Played my first game of SWA this weekend...came away unimpressed. If I'm going to enjoy it I'm going to have to re-hash a whole bunch of house rules or give it a lot more depth. We had planned on 2-3 games, but a buddy was called away in an emergency.

After playing Mordheim all weekend leading up to it, the starkness of the simplicity was not a bonus. We all kind of sat there and just "uh....well...meh".

But surely, it's more balanced than Mordheim, right? No? It's not like you get a Mordheim Beastmen situation, do you?

 Elbows wrote:
I understand fully what SWA is supposed to be (easier and faster than Necromunda) and we just realized that, while playable, it's not scratching the itch that Necromunda/Mordheim scratched. I've seen most of what I would criticize mentioned already:
-Campaign will be too short to even get invested in your characters/models/figures/identities.

I think GW has been in the habit for the last few years for quick one-off games.
I think a campaign was more an afterthought reading between the lines.
I saw it more as a small skirmish 40k, I think that is why I mentioned kill team.
I think I always figured I would have to make my own campaign criteria heavily borrowing from the original Necromunda material.

-Units being proper soldiers...stats are really too good and you don't get the desperation you got in Necromunda/Mordheim building up your mediocre stuff into something worthwhile.

What it lacks is the granularity as you say: you do not get much better than a "normal" trooper.
A little more emphasis on interesting skills and quirks as troops progress to being veterans.

-The out-of-action chart is boring and yes, most grant benefits instead of penalties...

It would be interesting to have a chart that followed how the model went down and the way he came back to fighting shape.
A deduction to a stat, a bionic, maybe digital weapons along with the damaged hand, better integrated targeting with replacement eye...

-Creating a kill team was done in about 3 minutes and didn't provide any of the satisfaction of creating a Mordheim warband (more choices, more need to balance weapon types, options, skills, and stats).

Less personalization, less emotional investment?
I agree the weapon choices are rather limited, less so than in a 40k codex I think.
It would be interesting to roll on a chart for "loot" to get gear you could not normally buy.
I played many a game where that one trooper has the special gun and there is no easy way to replace it or him.
The games became nail biters when he was threatened.

-The post-game sequence is non-existent and boring by comparison (no shopping, no exploring, no training)

You want a more tactical game for kitting out the kill team.
I am seeing visions of like UFO Enemy Unknown style of research or production spent to get an item you cannot readily buy.

-Models upgraded by arbitrary choice in no-way tied to what happened in the game, so the story element collapses immediately

The after skirmish narrative is not linked with the campaign narrative.
"Natural" consequences or benefits from accomplishments in the field.

-Model is captured? Who cares. It's just a faceless model, likely without any upgrades or any history in your super duper short campaign...so why bother trying to rescue him except for a financial risk if you let him perish.

Again upgrades and kit that matter that cannot be bought readily but found or earned.
How to make you care about a character: skills that matter, an irreplaceable specialist.
I keep thinking of those paired skill trees in UFO: do I want that impressive support trooper or do I want him more as a medic?
Do I want a sniper "hand of god" or a gun slinging dirty Harry?
Heavy armor killer or a "spray and pray" suppression artist?

-The one three-player scenario is just boring as gak - but that's shared with Necromunda and Mordheim on some levels. Some scenarios are just crap. "Oh grab this...yay."

Agreed that there are more interesting objectives.
Again, I liked UFO missions like the guy that goes undercover (gone for battle) and then you do an extraction mission with that model deep into their territory and running for his life.
Special abilities for hiding and extra movement, cover bonus, reduced armor, only a knife and pistol.

-Hand to hand combat much less chunky...in a bad way (Mordheim stats/gear/abilities are more intriguing and interesting)

Some parry was included so that was one little thing of interest.
I keep thinking options like "dramatic escape" like jumping off a level to escape combat OR "Unexpected follow-thru" pushing a model off an edge. No edge, moved back X inches.

-It doesn't help my opinion of SWA that I play Eldar and that list is freakin' milquetoast.

Agreed that list has less options than most. Dark Eldar seemed more exciting.

-Way too easy to buy great upgrades for models...there's no excitement when you just buy a great weapon w/ zero issue....no rarity factor, no incredible cost, you didn't have to dig through the underhive to find it. By comparison you'd wet yourself when you somehow managed to find/buy a plasma pistol for your gang leader...and you were the envy of all your friends, etc.

High price or chance does make the more optimal weapons all that more special, agreed.
I DO like that you cannot recover gear when one of the guys die.
If it is not readily replaceable the skills or equipment the more interesting the model.

-Promethium caches is a weak way to win a campaign and seems completely pointless for Tyranids etc. I know it's just a "victory point" marker, but it's crap.

A form of "currency" is helpful for making a victory more meaningful for a campaign.
A tree of missions with reward and consequence for each would be better in many ways and the "currency" more for discretionary small stuff.

-To give the game or campaign real legs you'd have to expand all of the gang lists and start applying a lot of house rules to all kinds of stuff.

Rather than hiring-in special characters, reaching a point where the model can upgrade to a given troop type would be interesting.
Scout with Sniper Rifle = Moves to Full marine with silenced bolter with scope = Then Sternguard = Then Deathwatch.
There are many logical progressions that could be determined for each race and troop type.

I really struggled to care at all about anything that was going on in the game. I only had six models, I should have been very intrigued and given them all names and...nope. Again, probably seemed far worse because we'd just played Mordheim. Maybe if we hadn't it would have been 10-15% more enjoyable. I like modding games and I'll be debating whether I'll launch into doing a full campaign revamp for this, but I doubt I'll bother. I just felt the game was really shallow.

They were one of hundreds of ho-hum normal troop models.
Unique, special, irreplaceable is the need.
Funny skill "upgrades" that make you think hard would be neat like: Long range specialist: many hours on the range means less practice on the mat: +1 BS, -1 WS.
Even something stupid like "You have perfected the art of sliding down ladders: when going down one, no movement is used."
"Super flip" allowed to leap over a model and land 1" away on the other side and continue movement. That would be interesting.
Special skills you rarely use but just may save your hide or pull through when needed.
Some guy who is good at converting promethium to "dragon's breath rounds", special ammo for a selected trooper good for 1 skirmish.

Why do so many movies of piecing together a bunch of diverse specialists is so characterful and interesting?
When you manage to successfully use the right tool for the job when the time comes.
Same challenge in the past with Eldar of getting the right Aspect Warrior in the right place for the task at hand.
Heck, people would demand rules for Colonel Shaeffer's last chancers if the game was interesting enough.
Some element of Gaunt's ghosts breezing through, or Revanor trying to find an old relic from the Chaos invasion from the first war but needs to "capture" a person to question.

Yeah, if they do not sharpen their pencil some flow charts may be in order.
Good luck on what you decide and I appreciate the thoughtful answers and answered accordingly.

I've been having way more fun playing gorechosen than shadow war. At least you know gorechosen has almost no strategy and your expectations are low. Shadow war tries to be a tactical game but falls short on almost all levels due to it's pointless objectives, total randomness in who wins (due to missions and bottling rules) and boring campaign so nothing matters.

Been having tons of fun with Shadow War myself.

On Saturday, played orks against IG. Rolled Raid, Attacker. IG had three (!) sentries, I got ten (!) of my orks. Made a very kunnin' approach, sentries none the wiser - combo of opponent rolling low and my very careful movement. Got brutal all at once and IG could not properly respond, opponent voluntarily bottled at first opportunity. Very enjoyable for me and he had the option to end it rather than keep slogging through a game he was unlikely to turn around. This took roughly 30 min. I have also played a game where I absolutely squandered favorable deployment.

Had my first game in the FLGS campaign.. Playing GSC

Caused a Sisters mob to retire first round.. The Grenade Launcher (Krak nades are awesome) managed to kill 2 (including their leader) and my Leader captured their heavy.. and with only 2 Sisters left.. he decided to reroll

I found this guide helpful https://www.reddit.com/r/ShadowWarArmageddon/comments/64kjdq/some_tips_for_new_players_a_few_sample_lists/

Nice orientation but guide leans too hard in the direction of "optimization" when SWA is pretty clearly a lark.

I'm really enjoying the game, I've been playing Necro recently and the streamlined campaign system while not without its faults does allow for plenty of games in one sitting. My only issue is the fact that were sharing one rulebook but that should be sorted for the next game.

So game play is identical to Necro so no issues here; the 2d6 ammo rolls are welcome (and right for proper troops).

The flaws I found in the campaign were admittedly based on some extreme dice rolling but that is the danger with such limited charts. To explain I've been playing against a mate who has picked up wargaming again after 20 odd years. He went with Nurgle Marines and some cultists and i took this as an opportunity to paint up my Gaunt's Ghosts for a camo clad IG KT. Thematically spot on.

We've played two standard fights, a Raid followed by a Rescue.

I won the first three games and (and here's the rub) each involved the winner picking up an extra 100points for the pre-game 'hunt the sprawl' chart and my opponent had two dead and have captured his HVy Bolter CSM. So three games against a new player and I'm at a massive competitive advantage where I had mostly maxed out my KT. At this point I felt the need to suggest we restart but my opponent gamely suggested we carry on for the Rescue mission.

After a long and enjoyable/challenging silent movent phase that saw Pink Panther-like agility from tippy-toeing CSM and their lackies around my oblivious Scout-Snipers and a hilarious moment where his sniper CSM got shot in the arse at extreme range while escaping the table and then crawling off for the win.

As I say all very enjoyable games but the campaign (which in still prefer to Necros extended accountancy round) got skewed quite quickly but hopefully not terminally. Get that the +100 point Sprawl result is needed for sown of the more expensive KTs but I think there is some work to be done by GW in expanding the Sprawl/Injury charts to extend the games life a bit.

I've played a few games, I agree with some of the criticisms... like about the results on the injury table, but fatigue from bookkeeping is real for some people. I think a lot of players in my club, their eyes would glaze over if they saw the previous necromunda stuff so i'm thankful for something simpler, with 'official' support from GW however long that may last.

We'll probably end up modifying it to be even shorter and less random, to be played as a mini-campaign in one night perhaps. Probably part of that will be increasing points for starting teams and allowing for some purchasing of skills (or at least the chance to roll on the charts).

Easter Egg:

"-Models upgraded by arbitrary choice in no-way tied to what happened in the game, so the story element collapses immediately "

That's your fault, really. I've been picking the "man of the match" for an upgrade. Often in Necromunda I would have some random Juve or Ganger who did nothing of note level up after a game, while the best performer got a bad roll and was 1 or 2 XP shy of an advance.

As for the simplicity of kill team creation being "bland", YMMV. why does my involvement need to be driven by statlines? Make a cool model, give him a name, it doesn't matter if he's a special snowflake ganger or a guardsman with a lasgun. This guardsman shrugged off three hits and knocked out an enemy bare-handed in melee. That one coolly picked off the opposing leader with his sniper rifle. The gameplay will determine which advances I give them, without need rules to tell me to do so.

I would perhaps like the injury table to be more in-depth, but then, I've not managed to get a Necromunda campaign to a satisfactory climax in 20 years, so something that burns faster is probably a good thing.

> Plays one game
> Houserules

Also your list of stuff has a lot of incorrect things in it. But it seems like you went into it negatively and created a conclusion you wanted to have, looking for it to be a game that it wasn't. With that in mind, I would say you should just move on from Shadow War.

I'm like 8 games in and they've all been amazingly fun.

BTW, anyone who thinks Frenzy is a benefit is absolutely mistaken. Nothing worse than when a guy you DON'T want charging, charges. Even close combat maniacs. Charge right into overwatch to fight over a barrier, perfect. When someone gets Frenzy, it's only a matter of time before you boot him out and replace him with another guy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 notprop wrote:

As I say all very enjoyable games but the campaign (which in still prefer to Necros extended accountancy round) got skewed quite quickly but hopefully not terminally. Get that the +100 point Sprawl result is needed for sown of the more expensive KTs but I think there is some work to be done by GW in expanding the Sprawl/Injury charts to extend the games life a bit.

The +100 is the only way to afford anything that costs more than 200 though. So anyone that wants a missile launcher, lascannon, etc, has to either get it initially, or wait for a +x point bonus, and burn a promethium, in addition to their Rearm points.

I watched a few games in WW over the weekend, quite a few people were in there enjoying it, there was a campaign going down in Warhammer Nottingham as well by the looks of it.

It seems simple and fun, just the type of game I am looking for at the moment due to my limited schedule.

I cannot wait to get my rulebook !

I wonder if FW are still going to redo necromunda ?

They said it was next on the list after Adeptus Titanicus when I last spoke to them at warhammerfest, but we all know how they can change their priorities.

Pretty sneaky, GW. Looking forward to getting mine at some point in the future .

So what kind of stupid rules is that crane going to have?

Really cool piece of terrain. I actually want one despite having way too much sci-terrain already.

Knowing GW, it's going to come with a points cost and some kind of ridiculous ruleset behind it like the Promethium Relays ("hook our flamethrowers up to an industrial gas line! what could go wrong?") or the Blood Reactors.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
So what kind of stupid rules is that crane going to have?

Really cool piece of terrain. I actually want one despite having way too much sci-terrain already.

Knowing GW, it's going to come with a points cost and some kind of ridiculous ruleset behind it like the Promethium Relays ("hook our flamethrowers up to an industrial gas line! what could go wrong?") or the Blood Reactors.

It doesn't nearly have enough storm bolters on it.


i hope some one can jump in it and do a grabby attack.

 Desubot wrote:


It doesn't nearly have enough storm bolters on it.
i hope some one can jump in it and do a grabby attack.

Or mount it on one of the tractors and do drive-by grabby attacks!

T

 judgedoug wrote:
> Plays one game
> Houserules

Also your list of stuff has a lot of incorrect things in it. But it seems like you went into it negatively and created a conclusion you wanted to have, looking for it to be a game that it wasn't. With that in mind, I would say you should just move on from Shadow War.

I'm like 8 games in and they've all been amazingly fun.

BTW, anyone who thinks Frenzy is a benefit is absolutely mistaken. Nothing worse than when a guy you DON'T want charging, charges. Even close combat maniacs. Charge right into overwatch to fight over a barrier, perfect. When someone gets Frenzy, it's only a matter of time before you boot him out and replace him with another guy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 notprop wrote:

As I say all very enjoyable games but the campaign (which in still prefer to Necros extended accountancy round) got skewed quite quickly but hopefully not terminally. Get that the +100 point Sprawl result is needed for sown of the more expensive KTs but I think there is some work to be done by GW in expanding the Sprawl/Injury charts to extend the games life a bit.

The +100 is the only way to afford anything that costs more than 200 though. So anyone that wants a missile launcher, lascannon, etc, has to either get it initially, or wait for a +x point bonus, and burn a promethium, in addition to their Rearm points.

Yep. One game. From three players who have hundreds of games of Necromunda under our belts. This is literally "old hat" at this point.

They're already sold out like crazy in CA

Although, they'll be doing more of these right? Not a limited edition run like the boxed set...

 Jambles wrote:
They're already sold out like crazy in CA

Although, they'll be doing more of these right? Not a limited edition run like the boxed set...

It says temporary out of stock, so I'd expect a re stock. Though not sure how soon. I/e, BB Dwarf pitch/Dwarf dice have been so since their release. Which was like 4 months ago...

Magnavents already went OOS, cam back in stock, and have gone OOS again.

PS - BB Dwarf dice also came back into stock briefly dome time back.