[KS] Legends of Fabled Realms - Fantasy Skirmish by 4Ground - NOW LIVE!

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**endtransmission**

Not the middle ground pledge you were hoping for, but kind of interesting none the less. Someone else asked about the £200 pledge without the second A4 rulebook. Unfortunately their response was that you can make a similar pledge from the lower tiers and add in extras.

For £800 you get everything in the £200 level, a gaming mat and 3 days up at BoW HQ with the game's writers where you get two sets of the preproduction resins (plus prototype cards/rules/dice) to paint and game with. You'll be taught how to play and go through a campaign with 11 other lucky people. This includes hotels and food, but not travel costs. Interesting, but not for me.

Spoiler:

You get to take away all the bits afterwards to carry on playing with. One thing this did let slip is that it will not deliver until September 2018(ish)

They have also shown the sketches for another of the stretch goal characters

**Henry**

Interesting. I've been after a Mordheim replacement for years. It all depends on the gameplay for me. I thought Frostgrave was going to be it, but it didn't satisfy. Have there been any gameplay previews yet?

And is it just me or do the Mordanburg fellow look like they just stepped out of a theatrical enactment of Guards! Guards! ?

**endtransmission**

The sketches of the Mordanburg guard really do look like the City Watch, yes. Probably why I'm liking them so much

I have played the demo a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it. They didn't go into too much detail as it was only one round to show actions, reactions and combat, but it was good fun.

They didn't talk about the character evolution either, but hopefully we should hear more about that on friday

**Alpharius**

Do you feel like it can be the spiritual successor to Mordheim that we're looking for?

**Henry**

Unless I'm mistaken, the terrain consists of:
Damaged Mordanburg Highstreet House 2
Mordanburg Damaged Dwellings 1
Damaged Mordanburg Highstreet House 3
4 Young Oak/Beech Trees
2 Mature Ash
2 Mature Chestnut
Total on 4Ground website = 142.50 (not £150)

Total from Wayland Games = 114.40 (add two starters for 194.40)
And that's before we start pointing out that spending over £40 on 8 trees is just silly.

Now I'm tighter than a nun's chuff at times, so the big £200 offer is going to need some back up to make it a lot more palatable.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

endtransmission wrote:
One thing this did let slip is that it will not deliver until September 2018(ish

Ah.
I wish them all the best and I'll definitely be checking it out when it's released, but....

edit: turns out there's also a well in the £200 pledge (£9 on 4Ground website, £7.20 on Wayland)

**Manchu**

The bizarre spelling and grammar mistakes in the newsletter are rather alarming:

http://mailchi.mp/25ec83544a7b/37wf3kz4q9-1301589

"Mother wills for more initiates to fight the coming tied of death out of Daldorr."

"What Legends will you wright."

"A quick glimpses of the contents of a starter set."

etc etc etc

Think I will wait for retail release. The September 2018 release date is pretty far out anyhow.

**Zethnar**

I feel that release date is pretty realistic. If there are PDFs of the rules we'll no doubt have access to them sooner than their physical counterparts (I would imagine at least).

I'm kinda alright with just getting a starter set then looking at adding a second, I guess it depends on the price they're asking.

**Yodhrin**

Alpharius wrote:
Do you feel like it can be the spiritual successor to Mordheim that we're looking for?

While I'm quite interested in some of the models this will be producing, final quality dependent, I always wonder when I see sentiments like this; "Why not just play Mordheim?". The rules are free, suitable models are abundant for most factions, and if you're bored of the original setting or core campaign mechanics there are at least half a dozen fan supplements set all over the Warhammer World to play through, and more than double that number if you're willing to put in a little work to tidy them up a bit. It's not like persuading local gamers to try some random kickstarter game is going to be any easier than getting an SG campaign started.

**Galas**

Normally people like to play alive games that have continous developement and ampliation from their creators.
I agree that many times, fans creations are just flat out better than official ones. But that first statement remains true.

**Alpharius**

Galas wrote:
Normally people like to play alive games that have continous developement and ampliation from their creators.
I agree that many times, fans creations are just flat out better than official ones. But that first statement remains true.

Pretty much this, more or less?

As annoying as it may be, 'dead games' (or those that are perceived as 'dead') are often not played frequently/commonly and it becomes very hard to find opponents for them.

Same will hold true for 40K now.

It is all well and good to say "No one's going to kick down your door and burn your 2nd - 7th edition stuff, keep playing that if you like it!", but try to actually find a game of it, and, well...

Beside, I was just asking for his opinion on the subject - and knowing if it compares favorably to M. is a nice shorthand, of sorts, here.

**Yodhrin**

Alpharius wrote:
Galas wrote:
Normally people like to play alive games that have continous developement and ampliation from their creators.
I agree that many times, fans creations are just flat out better than official ones. But that first statement remains true.

Pretty much this, more or less?

As annoying as it may be, 'dead games' (or those that are perceived as 'dead') are often not played frequently/commonly and it becomes very hard to find opponents for them.

Same will hold true for 40K now.

It is all well and good to say "No one's going to kick down your door and burn your 2nd - 7th edition stuff, keep playing that if you like it!", but try to actually find a game of it, and, well...

Beside, I was just asking for his opinion on the subject - and knowing if it compares favorably to M. is a nice shorthand, of sorts, here.

Oh I've made that argument myself and I often resent the effort it takes, but I'd rather not "settle" - I've found getting folk started on an SG campaign isn't actually any more effort in practice than getting them invested in a game that isn't a main GW line no matter what they say about favouring "actively supported" products, because what they mean when they say that is "I'm not interested/able to put time & effort into finding a game, so I play what everyone else here already plays", in which context it doesn't matter if you're pushing Fabled Realms, Mordheim, or Malifaux.

But aye, I see what you were about now, ta.

**endtransmission**

Alpharius wrote:
Do you feel like it can be the spiritual successor to Mordheim that we're looking for?

No idea. The demos didn't go into the warband evolution, other than there is some.

They keep referring to something called the Legacy system, which seems to be where you gan grow/evolve the warband. The way stats and equipment are handled also implies that your group can get better as I'm assuming that dice will improve for skills and better equipment will also grant more dice. There is also the card decks that *may* evolve, but don't quote me on that one... they may just become more useful or form more synergies... who knows. Hopefully we will find out more tomorrow.

Unlike Mordheim though, the supporting troops work as units, so in the Eightfold Path set you get three characters, a unit of two spears/halberds and a unit of three guys with axe/shield. The reactions system does look like it will give a nice interaction in very close quarters fighting though.

**Pacific**

Alpharius wrote:
Do you feel like it can be the spiritual successor to Mordheim that we're looking for?

I spent some time watching the BoW intro videos when this first surfaced, my first thought is 'yes', or at least much more so than Frostgrave, which although fun doesn't seem to have the level of detail that Mordheim had, and was more the action-RPG to Mordheim's Fire Emblem-type RPG (if you can forgive the video gaming comparison!)

Looking on the front page of the thread I can quote myself (normally a dreadful thing to do but no way at all I can remember stuff from back in Feb!

)

Some highlights and a couple of things that stood out for me if you aren't watching:
- The game designers have real RPG roots. For anyone who thought the campaign system was a little light in Frostgrave, it sounds like this could be much more in depth. It sounds like the developers really spent some time investing character and a narrative to their game stories over many years, and want this to be an integral part of playing the game.
- The mechanics. There is a face-to-face type role for attack and defence, reactive turn sequence (definitely sounded like elements of Infinity), special dice for hits, misses, crits with dice cancelling each other out (a la X-Wing). Again, it comes across as more depth than Frostgrave, but would need to see the game in action to determine how much it slows down the play. Certainly, the use of symbols on the unit cards, not having to track experience with pen and paper (which sounded like another nice touch, as much as some of us actually enjoy doing this!) makes me think this has been through a fair bit of playtesting, and believe it was mentioned in the video that you're looking at an hour or less for a game once you know it. Also, containing elements of two of the game systems so fondly thought of in terms of Infinity and X-Wing, can only be a good thing!
- The miniatures are nicely detailed and characterful. Again, independent detail and character on each one (which would lend itself to campaign) rather than just 'Henchman A mk2'. The scale and heroic proportion means you could probably swap in GW, Frostgrave etc. pretty easily if you wanted to.
- The art, styling, setting is quite distinctive. There is definitely a 'horror' vibe going on with the bestial/vampyric bad guys (Draguul? Not sure of spelling), and the 'virus' idea of the transmission brings to mind something like Blade 2. The different species all transforming to a Draguul equivalent is a nice touch. Will be interesting to see what the other factions and races are like, but it sounds like an awful lot of background already there from the 10 years or so the developers say they have been playing with the background setting. Personally I loved the retro-style fantasy artwork, but understand this won't be to everyone's taste.
- And of course, lovely terrain to use the miniatures with. I really hope there is some 'town + miniatures' level for the forthcoming KS, can see that being pretty popular if they do, even if you have to get out a second mortgage to pay for it!

**endtransmission**

There is a BoW video interview on Facebook today talking more about the world, some new terrain and how the pledge levels are going to work.

Freebies that are unlocked as stretch goals are for all backers, or High level backers. The high level backers are not linked to a pledge level, but the total that they spend *during the kickstarter*. That is the important thing to keep in mind. There will be a pledge manager to buy more after the campaign, but you must spend over £200 *during* the campaign to be eligible for the stretch goals.

It sounds like some of these goals will be new characters. The characters themselves will not be KS exclusives, but the figures will be. Another goal will be a large printed version of the map.

**Sheck2**

I am interested. Looking forward to how they bundle. I am tired of KS that give a 20% discount and deliver 18 months later. I can get that from retailers and not have to give them money a year ahead of time.

**Henry**

Sheck2 wrote:
I am interested. Looking forward to how they bundle. I am tired of KS that give a 20% discount and deliver 18 months later. I can get that from retailers and not have to give them money a year ahead of time.

I find it's not all KS that I dislike for this. If it's an honest new business that needs a leg up (ooh, shall we call it something like ... a Kick Start!) then I have no problem. If it's an established company that is using the medium as more of a pre-order system then I agree with your sentiment.

**endtransmission**

Two more levels have just been shown on Faceybook

For £8 you get the KS character, the Cartographer, and access to the add-ons.

The other end of the spectrum is £400, which is the £200 level, plus a Deep Cut Studios mat (4x4) and every unlocked stretch goal.

This last bit implies that not all of the stretch goals will be free to those spending over £200. I guess this will include the two other starter sets and any additional units and terrain that are unlocked during the campaign. It is limited to 200 people

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, so they followed up that reveal with the first 15 stretch goals and clarified things a bit more for the £400 level. This level gets one of every stretch goal, including the add-ons, plus an extra copy of every stretch goal marked as free to the £200+ level. I am on my phone so cannot repost the images, but the goals start unlocking at £35k and currently go up to £150k. In there we mostly have adobe, plus some extra dice, one free character, some PDF warbands and some posters. The add one include the next two starter sets (£40 each), a set of three buildings (£70) and 10 decks of different ability cards (£3 each).

I guess the ability decks are things you can learn as your force gains experience as each deck seems to be a skill area, such as Light, Dark, Spirit and regional.

**highlord tamburlaine**

As interested in this as I am, it still is feeling a bit pricey, especially if you want to see those stretch goals included.

I may at least check into the rules.

Like many of you, I like Frostgrave plenty, but I'm not a fan of the focus on the mages rather than the grunts.

**Alpharius**

Where are they previewing stuff?

I'd like to see those stretch goals too!

EDIT:

Ah, got it - their Facebook page!

https://www.facebook.com/The-Legends-Of-Fabled-Realms-334856040246872/

Specifically:

These are the first 15 stretch goals that are available on the kickstarter going live tomorrow. As you can see some are marked as Venturer rewards and some are marked as Guildmaster.

Venturer rewards are for any one who pledges for the A Few Good Fellows but less than £200.

Guildmaster rewards are for any one who pledges for £200+ during the kickstarter (including The Battle Of Rustag pledge).

If you pledge for The 3rd Incursion or Scholars Of Nonsuch University then you receive 1 of every stretch goal unlock, as well as an additional copy of each Guildmaster reward (for pledging £200 or more).

**Henry**

When you compare the £200 to the £400 pledge you get all the additional stuff "free" with the higher pledge and a deep cut game mat.
If we assume the mat costs about £25 (4x4 mats are €25 on deepcut website, but let's transfer directly to pounds to keep it simple)) then for your extra £200 you get:
All the cards £15
Building set £70
2 extra starter sets £80
Deepcut game mat £25
Total = £190

You'll also get an extra copy of the KS dwarf (let's call that £8), but that still doesn't seem right.

Also, assuming all the starter sets come with a rulebook, you'll end up with 4 rulebooks and 4 copies of the KS model. Who needs that?
This pre-order KS has some of the strangest pricing going. Which is a shame as I really am digging the minis and theme.

edit: So just noticed you only get 2 rulebooks and 2 of the KS model at the £400 level.
Also there are 10 decks of cards, not 5, so that's £30.
£30 for some add on cards - are they gold plated? I would have expected the lot for less than £10 and expect they will be available on proper release as a bundle for about that price.

**endtransmission**

Aaand we are live: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/250544710/the-legends-of-fabled-realms

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bizarrely, the campaign is only 16 days long... for something like this, I would have expected longer

**Alpharius**

All miniatures are unpainted and either pre-assembled plastic or multipart resins.

Have they given any more detail on what exactly that means?

The terrain at the £200 level looks to save you about £10 off retail?

It is looking like skipping the £200 level and getting the terrain you want at a discount somewhere else might be the way to go, especially as most of the stretch goals so far aren't all that compelling.

Having said that, I'm not sure where you can buy 4Ground Mordanburg stuff at a discount...

**Henry**

The £40 for the starters I consider to be very reasonable. Holding off to general release will save you a few pennies, but I don't think it's worth quibbling about. The terrain on the other hand is not so much of a deal - nice if it's what you want, but easy to pass on.

There's a run through of the Alpha rules too:

I have to say I enjoyed what I saw. I can imagine this game scaling very well between a handful of models and thirty or so.

**Elbows**

I only made it about 30 mins. in...but man I'm not feeling the rules at all, just from what I've seen. I still want to see the models in person and get some (if they're not resin).

**Manchu**

Pins, mugs, tshirts, mousepads ... feels like a red flag.

**Necros**

I'm gonna have to skip this one after all. Spent too much on the Human Interface camaign, plus nu40k, so I'm outta cash now.

Looks like it will be funded shortly, and the minis look good, so I'm sure I'll be picking some up later on.

**BigDaddio**

I kind of like the models for the Druggies (or whatever their called) but not enough to spend $60+ now and wait to get them for more than a year. May look to pick them up when they hit retail (supposing they do; never a given with KS projects). The rule system is not a fit for me, either, and though I really like the game's artwork the stretch goals definitely aren't enough to sway me into backing.

.

**Zethnar**

I really wanted to like this, but I just found out the miniatures in the starter sets are PVC. £40 for 8 PVC minis and a rulebook does not sound like a good deal to me, so I'm out.

**Ian Sturrock**

Yeah, I like the miniatures well enough, but they're asking for Hasslefree type money for (at best) CMON PVC level of quality. I don't see that being good value. There's nothing wrong with decent PVC minis but they're much better for mass battles than skirmish games, in terms of levels of detail and character.

**Henry**

I'm in for now for two starter sets. The opening two factions don't interest me and I like the two locked ones. I have doubts that those two will get unlocked though and I'll be pulling my pledge if they don't. The two new factions have been moved up the stretch goal list by quite a bit after the first day. Does this suggest the opening day didn't go as well as expected?

4Ground have had a rejig of their goals and rewards! After realising that the the terrain in the £200 bundle came to less than what they claimed, they added a well terrain piece. Everybody say hooray.

They've also acknowledged that the £400 pledge isn't actually that good of a deal over the £200 pledge (though they persist in claiming the gaming mat is worth £10 more than what you can actually buy one for) and so they've added some more freebies. Now you get.... wait for it.... a whole two extra henchmen for free! Assuming the other warbands are unlocked, that's two henchmen spread over four warbands. Or 1/2 of a hench-person per warband. Everybody say double hooray!

There's also a whole new pledge level. This one gets you two starting warbands for £70 instead of £80. Why that pledge level wasn't there to begin with is baffling, but now they've fixed it. Which is good. Everybody say a non-sarcastic hooray!

I like what I've seen of the game. I like the models. This kickstarter however is not a kickstarter. It's one of the most blatant "pre-order while we flog you some of our exsisting products" that I've seen.