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SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
I think the Game of Thrones hype is down a bit...
I doubt this game will be too popular :/

I think it suffers from the same phenomena as the Walking Dead Total War miniatures game, where the models are based on the orginal source material and not the wildy popular TV show.

It's a CMON kickstarter, so I'm keeping an eye on it to see if it gets ridiculous, must buy, levels of miniatures included, but I can't get too excited when none of the characters look how I'm used to seeing them.

I watched the first season ages ago, well after I read the books, and can barely remember what most of the actors looked like, so I'm not too disappointed in how they look.

Still waiting for that point where I can't help but pledge. That's probably not coming til the last few days though, as it usually is.

evancich wrote:
Yeah...

What I'm saying is CMON can't have a SG that is the white walker faction or Jon Snow++ in terminator armor swinging the lightbringer hitting on a 1+ and re-rolling everything.

The first because they will need to sell that later and they don't want to piss off the new player base by giving the KS backers a jump start on a big faction before it is available at retail. The latter because of balance.

CMON is stuck (for lack of a better term) doing those 2 factions and adding more dudes to the starter.

They can't give us anything amazing as a KS exclusive because the game needs to live at retail.

CMON in previous campaigns had unbalanced units that were KS only. Which was a nice easter egg to the backers.

ASoIaF simply won't have that.

I agree with you, the game needs to live at retail also because is not a simple "boardgame" like others cmon released, this can be a real wargame with more faction and a lot of possible future release.
At least is what i hope, would be a waste if this wont be a wargame sustained and updated over the years.

Just listened to one of the CMON guys on the FTN podcast.

He says basically what I thought. Nothing exclusive that effects gameplay.

Cergorach wrote:
Well GW just did well over $200 million in revenue (that's before licenses) in a YEAR. So mini wargames DO make a lot of money, you just need to be THE big player in the market. That's almost 14 times what CMoN made from the the 5 Zombicide KS over the last 5 years... CMoN is tiny compared to that.
.

I think you have to look at the reach of miniature wargames outside of GW (which as you have said is by far the biggest fish in the pond), that revenue is built off the back of more than 30 years in the industry (in many ways, they had become the industry, certainly in the case of sci-fi and fantasy), with a global network of stores and reach into books and computer games).

But in terms of relative sizes of 'ponds', the board and card game one is that much bigger (think it was over $1 billion last year for the first time?)

There is a far, far bigger demographic that board games can appeal to than miniature wargames, that's a trivial observation I know but was the point I was trying to make previously in terms of measuring the level of success that this KS will achieve.

A good question might be, what is the current KS record for a miniature wargame? And measure the achievement of ASOIAF against that.

Here's the most funded list

https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/tabletop%20games?sort=most_funded

As a rank and file wargame it's already the highest funded. I think Robotech is the most funded wargame at $1.44m (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

We don't talk about Robotech here.. Robotech never happened.

DaveC wrote:Here's the most funded list

https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/tabletop%20games?sort=most_funded

As a rank and file wargame it's already the highest funded. I think Robotech is the most funded wargame at $1.44m (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

I think you're right - and that's a shame that it has that honor!

RoninXiC wrote:We don't talk about Robotech here.. Robotech never happened.

To be fair, its only about 40% happened so far?

Is it just me or is this kickstarter "suffering" from their add-ons being too expensive? 35$ MSRP for a unit of 13 infantry models which are monopose and of limited quality plastic?

I'm guessing RR Martin needs quite a bit of royalties

Might be an interesting meeting at CMoN HQ this morning. Michael Shinall appeared in comments yesterday morning and was all set to post an update yesterday but then vanished. Comments section has got a bit toxic (but then it wouldn't be a CMoN KS if didn't at some point!)

thinking of what they can do with no doubt scary licence fees, a determination to not tread on retailers toes with advance content, and no flexibility on adding a million pop culture reference heroes

I think the best thing to do would be to drop the idea of resculpts of all these characters you can only field one of, and start to add duplicate units instead.

after all for a rank and file unit based wargame 4 per side does not make a very varied game, and even if most of the uints are the same being able to maneuver with say 6 or 8 would make things much more interesting

Yeah, wouldn't be surprised if they decided to pull the plug soon.

My friend and I both canceled our pledges. We don't like where the campaign is headed, and kf we"re still interested by mid-next year, we'll buy at retail.

We ended up pledging for Carnevale - I got the two player set, and he's grabbing a faction box.

 Draccan wrote:

Is it just me or is this kickstarter "suffering" from their add-ons being too expensive? 35$ MSRP for a unit of 13 infantry models which are monopose and of limited quality plastic?

Yeah I've been thinking that too... what's the point of PVC (even if it's as good as possible) at a price like that?

 RiTides wrote:

 Draccan wrote:

Is it just me or is this kickstarter "suffering" from their add-ons being too expensive? 35$ MSRP for a unit of 13 infantry models which are monopose and of limited quality plastic?

Yeah I've been thinking that too... what's the point of PVC (even if it's as good as possible) at a price like that?

Amen to this! I felt like there was a niche out there for a PVC miniatures wargame that shot for Warhammer Fantasy Battles sized armies of 100 to 200 minis a side, but at a price people could afford. But instead Runewars and now Ice and Fire decided, "Hey GW sells Space Marines for $5 each, let's sell our minis for $3 each." And they have just missed the market entirely.

 RiTides wrote:

 Draccan wrote:

Is it just me or is this kickstarter "suffering" from their add-ons being too expensive? 35$ MSRP for a unit of 13 infantry models which are monopose and of limited quality plastic?

Yeah I've been thinking that too... what's the point of PVC (even if it's as good as possible) at a price like that?

What bothers me particularly is that there are so few sculpts per unit. You get four unique sculpts in each unit. The core set contains duplicate units, so the lack of variety is even more apparent. If there were six or more sculpts per unit, I would probably have pledged by now, but as it stands, I will not.

I kickstarted it for the models, not the game. The game itself I doubt I'd get to play, but I can use the models for frostgrave or even AOS.

Duplicates in any miniature game- a big no-no
one of the biggest immersion breakers out there

And that's not great for a game based on a such a lore heavy universe
Plus PVC is harder to work with... So converting is somewhat of a pain. And where do we get all the bits to convert with anyway?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
I think the Game of Thrones hype is down a bit...
I doubt this game will be too popular :/

I think it suffers from the same phenomena as the Walking Dead Total War miniatures game, where the models are based on the orginal source material and not the wildy popular TV show.

It's a CMON kickstarter, so I'm keeping an eye on it to see if it gets ridiculous, must buy, levels of miniatures included, but I can't get too excited when none of the characters look how I'm used to seeing them.

To be honest, I'm actually glad, they didn't sculpt the actors.
Not that they are bad looking, but Rob Stark would feel more like the actual character, rather thank the actor. Plus books and TV series being somewhat different plays a role in that a bit.

They've brought Thiago back from his paternity leave

Thiago Aranha Collaborator 11 minutes ago
Hail Bannerman!
Paternity leave is over, and now my watch begins! How are you all faring this fine morning?
I hear there's an extremely juicy update in the works. Feels like the start of a glorious week.

I don't see this game existing at retail. Who is going to pay $35 for a box of 12 PVC miniatures in four poses?

I suppose they are weighing everything on the strength of the license.

Some interesting comments about the number of poses per box, a lot of rank and file games over the years have had a lot less than that, although it might be that standards have increased somewhat since then?

Will have to see if the guy returning from paternity leave can give things a kick up the bottom, I have to say it seems like some of the stretch goals have been rather optimistic, and having things like the three dog unit stretches in a row have probably not helped the cause.

That price is pretty much CMON standard,

the Wrath of King unit boxes are $35 and have 12 troops (plus a couple of unit leaders the lack of which can easily be explained by the GRRM licencing fee)

eg https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/wrath-of-kings/shael-han-dragon-legion-box.html

hard to tell if anybody will pay it since they can'r get distribution running over here in the UK despite several updates suggesting they have hooked up with somebody who will

Adding more value over the next few goals, Stark Archers (4 sculpts) and Lannister Knights (4 sculpts). That will bring it up to 3 extra unit boxes with the pledge





plus mat and walls/bog add on





New terrain is very meh, you'd make a better bog yourself its just too flat and lacking detail.

You can say its 3 poses for the archers, but 4 different sculpts ...

I love those Casterly Rock Knights ... very nice

 Fireball wrote:
You can say its 3 poses for the archers, but 4 different sculpts ...

I love those Casterly Rock Knights ... very nice

Sorry corrected now the 2 left most looked like the same miniature but I see the difference now. Do they all seem to be lacking a quiver/arrows? it's hard to tell but I'm not seeing any.

It'd be fun to know how episodes of the show are affecting the campaign. Last night certainly highlighted the potential of it visually, but also was a pretty strong reminder that the world isn't really about the armies fighting at all.

 DaveC wrote:
Adding more value over the next few goals, Stark Archers (4 sculpts) and Lannister Knights (4 sculpts). That will bring it up to 3 extra unit boxes with the pledge

It should be noted that those stretch goals aren't for the whole unit. The archers have been broken up into three stretch goals, while the knights are two. That was another turn off from being a backer. I wouldn't want to recieve a partial unit that's going to end up being useless in the game thanks to an unreached stretch goal.

 infinite_array wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Adding more value over the next few goals, Stark Archers (4 sculpts) and Lannister Knights (4 sculpts). That will bring it up to 3 extra unit boxes with the pledge

It should be noted that those stretch goals aren't for the whole unit. The archers have been broken up into three stretch goals, while the knights are two. That was another turn off from being a backer. I wouldn't want to recieve a partial unit that's going to end up being useless in the game thanks to an unreached stretch goal.

It should also be noted that in the very same update CMON said they would not leave backers with incomplete units.

Which begs the question why not just unlock the whole unit then? But we already know; filler SGs.

They really could have done with unlocking both these units in one stretch goal each rather than over a combined 5 (making it clear the single goal is only for these units). Unlocking these two units quickly would have added some much needed value to the pledge option and hopefully increased momentum. Even better would be if they just added them into the pledge as a gesture of goodwill and to try and improve the campaign.

The new Bones campaign launching tomorrow really wont help either due to current lack of value in the Ice & Fire Pledge.